Pvp Balance? who eats who?
Comments
-
sweetjamie wrote: »The only problems I have with assassins:
Vanish, [triple] sparking while in stealth.
They have an endless amount of stuns.... But if you can survive a triple spark followed by stuns, immobilization and sleep followed by 2 charging attacks for when you run away and 2 speed skills... Then you might stand a chance against them... If you're a sage barb...
Psychics:
More damage and better heals than a wizard with the option to greatly increase your defense when enemies get near.
So why are there wizards?
Because we can hit a lot harder and actually bypass a charm with a nuke skill.
Oh, and when you put on white voodoo, your damage gets nerfed to an extremely humorous degree, but if you put on black voodoo (to try to hit as hard as a wizard but still have less damage), you have your soul of stunning, right before you get 1shot, or 1shot immediately.
Soulburn? You won't live long enough to cast soulburn if you have black voodoo on, and with white voodoo, anyone can survive 6-8 seconds of nerfed damage easily.
Edit:
I realized I didn't really answer your question on why there are wizards.
Wizards = can have good defense while keeping nuke damage, although channeling is slower than psy.
Psy = Either good defense or good attack, not both - also fast channeling0 -
Hi,
I wonder how are each class after 90+ with average refine (armor +4-5, weapon +5-6), for TW, PK (1vs1 and 6vs6), and Championship ?
I know how are cleric and venomancer (arcane with vit) but don't really know for other classes because player talk more about high refine character who own the other ....
I got bored of cleric because he's not fun in TW, Championship and 6vs6 PK (always 3 players on me and with genie it's harder to survive ...)
Venomancer is fun, but hard to survive in championship
Sin seems very good in 1vs1 pk, but seems more useless in TW ...
Wizard seems good when he got really good equipment and it's more aoe than solo target ...
Blademaster go fist for pk when hight lvl, right? So it's more 1vs1 ?
Barbarian are good to resist, but can only kill robe/light?
Archer seems to be more 1vs1, and badder than MG after 90 ?
Psychic, I don't know ....
Can you tell me if I'm wrong? b:thanksecatomb.net/pwi/
Skill Database - Item Database - Character Simulator
Baby Pet - Rare Pet - lvl100 Pet - Quest
Screenshot of: Fashion - Mount - Armor - Weapon0 -
1 vs 1 sins kill my wizard without any problem
in TW sins are useless, with all that aoe'ing going on they will pop out of stealth every 2 secs, and out of stealth i always two shot them ( skill prevents them from 1 shot ) with gush -> pyrogram
So it all depends on situation. Also the 87 sin on harshlands had +10 FC dagger and killed a level 100 barb in 90 gear. So yeah...cash shop class always wins over non cash shop class0 -
DoTs are not nerfed and neither is Soulburn while in White Voodoo.Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary wrote: »Because we can hit a lot harder and actually bypass a charm with a nuke skill.
Oh, and when you put on white voodoo, your damage gets nerfed to an extremely humorous degree, but if you put on black voodoo (to try to hit as hard as a wizard but still have less damage), you have your soul of stunning, right before you get 1shot, or 1shot immediately.
Soulburn? You won't live long enough to cast soulburn if you have black voodoo on, and with white voodoo, anyone can survive 6-8 seconds of nerfed damage easily.
I have no idea if Red Tide's bleed is nerfed in White Voodoo. If not, an endgame psychic can deal more than 35k (maybe even 50k, not sure, I've heard rumors of so much soulforce) bleeding damage. And worse yet if it doesn't have PvP reduction like nix. b:shocked
White Voodoo is not as useless for damage as you think it is, all I'm saying.0 -
Ecatomb - Harshlands wrote: »Hi,
I wonder how are each class after 90+ with average refine (armor +4-5, weapon +5-6), for TW, PK (1vs1 and 6vs6), and Championship ?
I know how are cleric and venomancer (arcane with vit) but don't really know for other classes because player talk more about high refine character who own the other ....
I got bored of cleric because he's not fun in TW, Championship and 6vs6 PK (always 3 players on me and with genie it's harder to survive ...)
Venomancer is fun, but hard to survive in championship
Sin seems very good in 1vs1 pk, but seems more useless in TW ...
Wizard seems good when he got really good equipment and it's more aoe than solo target ...
Blademaster go fist for pk when hight lvl, right? So it's more 1vs1 ?
Barbarian are good to resist, but can only kill robe/light?
Archer seems to be more 1vs1, and badder than MG after 90 ?
Psychic, I don't know ....
Can you tell me if I'm wrong? b:thanks
Archers are just plain horrible at low 90 with average refines, don't even bother unless you like to get 1 shoot while dealing 3 digit dmg. Cleric is in that category to, but not as bad as archers.
Wizards at 90 with average refines are almost as horrible as archers. Its also the only class archers can easily win 1v1. Low 90 wizards cant really compete 1v1 against many other classes. Have to wait till 99+ and get above average gear. However they can still cause a lot of death in TW and such at low 90.
I say barbarian, bm, assassin or veno with nix is really best choice for low 9X with average refines. Those classes have skills that boost survivability and they aren't as dependent of highly refined gear.
Assassins never really have to risk getting killed much in the first place since they cant get 1 shoot with Deaden Nerves up and can also force stealth in the middle of battle + triple spark in stealth watch target die in 2 sec. Dont think they are that amazing in TW atm, prolly have to wait until lvl 11 skills comes out.
Venos are almost op at low 90. They can chain dmg immune skills and throw some random wood nukes while the nix pecks + bleeds people to death.
Barbs are just fat meat shields in general that pretty much cant die 1v1 if they have charm on. Opponent need to have far better gear for the barb to even risk loosing. Just be prepared that pvp will cost 1 gold charm every 15 minutes or more. Barbs can kill other heavy users to, they can even 1 shoot other barbs lol
BMs are also very decent at low 90+ since they can 1 shoot most other classes with an OP genie skill, high survivability and zerk/chain stun <.<
But they really shine the most at 95+ when they get access to a bunch of interval gear.0 -
b:angry y the F is it this thread again? ppl kept asking wat the best pvp class is b:angry
here is my answer to all of u, hope u will be satisfied
BEST CLASS FOR PVP: VENO
WORST CLASS FOR PVP: BARB
lol? b:cute0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »DoTs are not nerfed and neither is Soulburn while in White Voodoo.
I have no idea if Red Tide's bleed is nerfed in White Voodoo. If not, an endgame psychic can deal more than 35k (maybe even 50k, not sure, I've heard rumors of so much soulforce) bleeding damage. And worse yet if it doesn't have PvP reduction like nix. b:shocked
White Voodoo is not as useless for damage as you think it is, all I'm saying.
In pvp, dot will not be able to kill any adequately-geared, charmed wizzies.
Look on ecatomb. Red tide's DoT is equal to one soulburn retalliation. Btw, yes it is reduced in pvp. And the one madly geared psychic I've seen only did 3-4k in one soulburn. Not a very good DoT if the description is correct.
White voodoo is pretty useless for damage, as long as soulburn is avoided, and I'm going to say "nice try" if you believe you can kill anyone with white voodoo on in 6-8 seconds while soulburn is in effect.0 -
Soulforce is dependent on refines not necessarily "gear", as far as I know. 9k would be a better bet, although yes like you said, it's DoT 9 seconds bleed.
But while I agree, white voodoo is nowhere near able to kill someone with decent defenses (by this I don't mean just gear, but survivability skills as well), the damage it gives is not nearly "insignificant". i.e it's not "almost nothing".
Smart psychics, like smart wizzies, actually know when to get defensive instead of being kamikazes.0 -
Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary wrote: »Red tide's DoT is equal to one soulburn retalliation.
ecatomb has a tendency to be wrong. Red Tide's DoT according in the skill description is equal to the Soulforce.
So even if someone has a 30K Soulforce and the reduction comes down to let's say....7.5K Bleed damage + The extra damage it already does, that's a lot. Combine that with other attacks and the opponent is as good as dead.0 -
Whoever cash shops more eats the others."Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »Soulforce is dependent on refines not necessarily "gear", as far as I know. 9k would be a better bet, although yes like you said, it's DoT 9 seconds bleed.
But while I agree, white voodoo is nowhere near able to kill someone with decent defenses (by this I don't mean just gear, but survivability skills as well), the damage it gives is not nearly "insignificant". i.e it's not "almost nothing".
Smart psychics, like smart wizzies, actually know when to get defensive instead of being kamikazes.
When I said gear, I included refines (this is common sense...?). And here is proof to counter your argument and the guy who posted right after you.FapFapFap - Raging Tide wrote: »I get 3.3k each soulburn tick from a 25k-ish psy, shall he be able to make ppl oneshot themselves? xD
QUOTE]
(the quote didn't work - here's the link, 2nd post http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=7975302)
FapFapFap is lvl 100 btw. and he has 25k soulforce according to this quote. Nice DoT, 3.3k over 9 seconds, that'll kill me.
Btw, one soulburn tick = equal to your soulforce, so to the guy under Borsuc, you literally repeated what I said, and I'm too lazy to check your name.0 -
Amour - Lost City wrote: »Whoever cash shops more eats the others.
b:cute amour wins.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
^me
already quit pwi, and yet my gears are still superior than 95% of you people.0 -
From 25k to a 3.3k is a almost 1/8 reduction. hmm.
3.3k won't kill you, no, but it sure is a lot better than -99 atk level don't you think? Remember, you also do 1/3 dmg to him (aprox.) with white voodoo on, so to compensate, he does 9.9k, or 10k, if you don't factor the defenses into account. Not that weak.
And remember, this is just the extra of Red Tide. What's the extra of BIDS? A slowdown. I don't think that bleed is anywhere near inferior, especially since it works full in white voodoo.
Assuming your BIDS does 9k on him (well, who uses it on non-undined arcanes? I'm just trying to show you the benefits of white voodoo), in white voodoo that'll be ~3k. The full spell not just it's extra effect.0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »From 25k to a 3.3k is a almost 1/8 reduction. hmm.
3.3k won't kill you, no, but it sure is a lot better than -99 atk level don't you think? Remember, you also do 1/3 dmg to him (aprox.) with white voodoo on, so to compensate, he does 9.9k, or 10k, if you don't factor the defenses into account. Not that weak.
And remember, this is just the extra of Red Tide. What's the extra of BIDS? A slowdown. I don't think that bleed is anywhere near inferior, especially since it works full in white voodoo.
Assuming your BIDS does 9k on him (well, who uses it on non-undined arcanes? I'm just trying to show you the benefits of white voodoo), in white voodoo that'll be ~3k. The full spell not just it's extra effect.
1) Charm will cut the DoT's threat significantly.
2) I've fought well-geared psy's who used only white voodoo to see how we compared in dealing straight out damage. I had over half hp by the time I killed them in almost every case.
3) BIDS benefit? Well, for psy's, blade tempest. Benefit = 1shot, bypass charm. Or, if they're using white voodoo, then lower hp to just above 1/2, and blade tempest will 1shot.0 -
I was trying to make a straight comparison...
Blade Tempest: fire + physical damage
BIDS: Water damage + extra slow effect
Red Tide: Water damage + extra bleed effect
for comparison balance skills-wise.
I thought the reason I chose BIDS was clear, and not MS or BT, or anything else.0 -
You chose bids because it gives the wizard the worst result in your comparison and therefore supports your claims. You even said yourself noone would use it. So why bother with an unrealistic scenario. Wizards actually HAVE three ults to chose from, while psys only have one -> more flexible.
A straight comparison is pointless unless it is somewhat realistic.
And about the 1/8 reduction: 1/4 from PvP reduction and ~1/2 from physical defense. makes sense.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »b:angry Wtf....I'm a psychic.
But honestly endgame? It depends on what build you have. It depends on how much time and effort you put into the character.
1: Wizards can easily one hit endgame. They without question deal the highest damage, but are nerfed with that slow casting BS. Give them some items that lessen that time; you're screwed.
2: Archers have crazy critical hit. They're hard to aim at. they often hit your weak spots. The object is to be FASTER than them and counter their damage. Archers are often overlooked.
3: Barbs have THOUSANDS of HP. They nuke damage. HOWEVER their magic defense sucks. A robe class + Archer knockback arrow will take care of them easily.
4: Venomancers have their own personal tank. They can poison, debuff, and generally make killing them hell. HOWEVER, Psychics are the "anti-Veno" class. They knock back the pets, reflect the damage from debuffs, and generally make fighting THEM hell.
5: Assassins will sneak around like little cowards and eliminate you before you have time to react. Usually when they hit you, it's a critical, and it's so fast, you can't react. I couldn't begin to tell you what class elminates these guys. Maybe some lucky barbs.
6: BM's can stun, jump, stun. It makes fighting them annoying. It depends on which weapon they use.
7: Clerics can one shot anything with Plume Shot. They can heal themselves. They can heal OTHER people chasing you. ....Too bad an assassin with good skills can take them out.
8: Psychics use barriers. We buff, we debuff. We're squishy, but we make it hurt when you hit us. Soulburn.<--Big one there. We can heal ourselves and make it count. (Bubble of Life/Empowered Vigor combo.) we can hit a lot of you at once. But any melee class can take us out, easy, and I dare not mention what archers can do to us....
Knockback Arrow on a Barb? Are you ****? Knockback Arrow only works on mobs.0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »I was trying to make a straight comparison...
Blade Tempest: fire + physical damage
BIDS: Water damage + extra slow effect
Red Tide: Water damage + extra bleed effect
for comparison balance skills-wise.
I thought the reason I chose BIDS was clear, and not MS or BT, or anything else.
If you only want to compare a water ulti (which doesn't make sense in making any sort of relevant point whatsoever, since we're not factoring in elemental advantages), I'll play along.
BIDS = way more dmg than red tide's initial dmg, and it can bypass charms.
Red Tide = crappy initial damage, bleed will tick charm.
If you are narrowing it down to a wiz vs. psy purely, then I can default to what Xegeth said. You're situation is unrealistic, as no stupid wiz would use BIDS (unless it were sage bids) on a psy in 1v1 over BT.0 -
-
Logan_Morgan - Lost City wrote: »i loled.
mages > Archer in PVE?? and when did hell freeze over?
When mages hit 9x, apparently.Bladestorm lets you spin around like a carnival ride and do damage. Not using it is almost like having a move called Confetti Rocket Power Leap and saving it for "emergencies"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nakhimov the Kingslayer of Kil'Jaeden's <Criminal Scum>
wowprogress.com/guild/us/kil-jaeden/Criminal+Scum0 -
Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary wrote: »If you only want to compare a water ulti (which doesn't make sense in making any sort of relevant point whatsoever, since we're not factoring in elemental advantages), I'll play along.
BIDS = way more dmg than red tide's initial dmg, and it can bypass charms.
Red Tide = crappy initial damage, bleed will tick charm.
If you are narrowing it down to a wiz vs. psy purely, then I can default to what Xegeth said. You're situation is unrealistic, as no stupid wiz would use BIDS (unless it were sage bids) on a psy in 1v1 over BT.
BT is fully countered by psychic will though so BIDS or MS is still your best shot at a one shot. Although you probably will not get the chance to cast it without spark pots and sutra. The best wizards I've fought on my psy don't try to use their ultimates at all in a 1v1 situation. They sutra and spam divine pyro, wotp and gush.
More on topic, the best PvP character depends a lot on what type of PvP it is. Some are better at 1v1 PK while others are better at TW or group PK. Take assassin for instance. They're great for PK. Stealth, triple spark, stun and bam you're dead before you can even do anything to react because you never even saw them coming. But in TW? AOEs flying everywhere, lack of crowd control, squishy. They're not nearly as useful as a psy who has 5 AOEs, 2 of which are crowd control or a wiz who has 3 very power AOE ultimates.0 -
i doubt assassins are the best pvp class, maybe at the lower levels yes but after seeing this vid of a 90 sin being 3 shotted by a bm now that pretty much says everything. as of now for all my characters i like the archer for now. then the wiz, bm, veno, barb, sin, cleric, and last the psy. but as what everyone who is high leveled is saying, " it depends on ur build, playing style, and who hits the hardest ".
low levels are voting sin because they have no idea they're fish bait 90 and over.
0 -
Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »BT is fully countered by psychic will though so BIDS or MS is still your best shot at a one shot. Although you probably will not get the chance to cast it without spark pots and sutra. The best wizards I've fought on my psy don't try to use their ultimates at all in a 1v1 situation. They sutra and spam divine pyro, wotp and gush.
Because Psychic Will can't be counteracted by sealing and sleeping you right? All the wizard has to do is FoW>Gush>Undine>Sleep>BT. By the Time BT is off your Psychic Will is gone and thanks to the damage from Gush BT will bypass your charm. Unless of course you have Black Voodoo up, which means you're just going to get one shot.
Psychic Will isn't going to save you from a smart Wizard's BT. They have the skills to wait it out and BT you anyway, or they can just forget about BT all together and use one of the other combos they have available.
EDIT: Fixed a small typo. >.<0 -
^(o.o > Wat he said
Unless Expel/AD b:sad[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Tag Hyp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
-
^(>.< > ish a stalker[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
-
Psychics of course.. i seen a decent equipped Psy vs 2 Barbs with good Equips
The Psy tanked and Killed both..
LuciferlV of course.. too OP
also gotta remeber they dont have all their sage/demon skills yetAttacking at the speed of Suck since 20090 -
that name is a taboo and bring forth misfortune, stop that
<
It's "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" / "You-know-who"
b:shocked[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »Because Psychic Will can't be counteracted by sealing and sleeping you right? All the wizard has to do is FoW>Gush>Undine>Sleep>BT. By the Time BT is off your Psychic Will is gone and thanks to the damage from Gush BT will bypass your charm. Unless of course you have Black Voodoo up, which means you're just going to get one shot.
Psychic Will isn't going to save you from a smart Wizard's BT. They have the skills to wait it out and BT you anyway, or they can just forget about BT all together and use one of the other combos they have available.
EDIT: Fixed a small typo. >.<
Yes because psychics will just sit there for 10 seconds and let you do your entire combo on them. You think they don't have any genie skills? You think they're not buffed with soul of stunning or soul of retaliation beforehand to **** over your combo?
A smart psychic will not use psychic will unless as a response to the wizard casting BT so there is no "waiting out" psychic will.
And yes, you are better off forgetting about BT when fighting a psy like I said.0 -
Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »Yes because psychics will just sit there for 10 seconds and let you do your entire combo on them. You think they don't have any genie skills? You think they're not buffed with soul of stunning or soul of retaliation beforehand to **** over your combo?
A smart psychic will not use psychic will unless as a response to the wizard casting BT so there is no "waiting out" psychic will.
And yes, you are better off forgetting about BT when fighting a psy like I said.
Honestly... that makes it even easier then, just use the combo I suggested earlier while using Fortify, Soul of Stunning will fail when they use Gush and BT will go off before you can put up your Psychic Will.
Then again.. You're forgetting Wizards also have genie skills, there's Fortify to get past your soul of stunning, and if you Expel the Wizard or yourself they can just wait until it fades and BT you anyway. If you use Absolute Domain all they have to do in order to hit you with another BT is use Sage Li's Technique (assuming they're Sage) or use a God's Tea/White tea. There are many ways of getting past genie skills, they aren't the sole deciding factor of a fight. Yes, they help, but they aren't going to win the fight alone.
The reason I didn't suggest another combo of skills is because I wanted to make the point that even with Psychic Will, the Wizard can hit you with BT. If they really wanted to they could just use Force of Will, then hit you with an Undine, use Fortify and hit you with one of their nukes (meaning Soul of Stunning was just wasted), then use Sutra>GS>Chi pot/Sage Li>MS>GS then whatever other nukes they decide to destroy you with.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 181.9K PWI
- 697 Official Announcements
- 2 Rules of Conduct
- 264 Cabbage Patch Notes
- 61K General Discussion
- 1.5K Quality Corner
- 11.1K Suggestion Box
- 77.4K Archosaur City
- 3.5K Cash Shop Huddle
- 14.3K Server Symposium
- 18.1K Dungeons & Tactics
- 2K The Crafting Nook
- 4.9K Guild Banter
- 6.6K The Trading Post
- 28K Class Discussion
- 1.9K Arigora Colosseum
- 78 TW & Cross Server Battles
- 337 Nation Wars
- 8.2K Off-Topic Discussion
- 3.7K The Fanatics Forum
- 207 Screenshots and Videos
- 22.8K Support Desk