Challenge for Calamity?

Anarchy - Dreamweaver

I give Eq props for taking land fairly as it has won against Calamity in a 1v1 war. However Niether Vanquish nor Dynasty have, the land they aquired were both during 3v1 wars and during a time when priorities were to defend against EQ instead of them. So thier ability to take land under those circumstances is not an adequate assesment of thier power.

Perhaps I am wrong, and Calamity will continue to degenerate as Hearstone has been so kind to enlighten the server of its members inablity (or desire?) to defend with numbers. In which case certainly both Vanquish and Dynasty could take land fairly. (I mean if you can't be bothered to defend it...lol)

I was simply proposing that if calamity were able to maintain its current strength,it would be unlikely to see more than a bi-colored map. There just isn't enough player base nor organization for Vanquish and Dynasty to increase thier power but too much more, and I don't mean to insult eith of them. I t is a growing concern for all small faction to be over-run with alts.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The truth of the matter is this:

Equinox has attempted to fight off Calamity nearly single-handed for much of the last 5+ months. There are other factions out there who are capable of attacking Calamity but have not because they have feared retribution. Equinox' call to arms against the dominant land-owner have gone largely unheard. When there are no little lands for which strong factions can quibble over, alliances will be forced and Calamity will have difficulty.

For those who are current land owners or those who have held land and not attacked Calamity out of fear, your time of cowardice is nearing its end. Calamity is going to be everyone's problem very soon, but first your problem may very well be Equinox. The taste of defeat is always the most bitter at first; Equinox comes battle-hardened and well trained. May each bring their best to the fight, and in the event your faction loses, know that it is not to your opponent you are losing to, but to your long history of inaction. The red map is testament to this.

so...to be apart of this rainbow map you must be EQ's friend or GTFO? b:surrender


EDIT: Ana go to bed, NAO!

Anarchy - Dreamweaver

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

EDIT: Ana go to bed, NAO!

I am working on it! its a process :P

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Anarchy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I am working on it! its a process :P

lol! Im going to bed now, tired of waiting. NN ana<3

Anarchy - Dreamweaver

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol! Im going to bed now, tired of waiting. NN ana<3

LOL, night night Mizzy ^.^ (add me to MSN bish)

Toxic - Dreamweaver

Anarchy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I give Eq props for taking land fairly as it has won against Calamity in a 1v1 war. However Niether Vanquish nor Dynasty have, the land they aquired were both during 3v1 wars and during a time when priorities were to defend against EQ instead of them. So thier ability to take land under those circumstances is not an adequate assesment of thier power.

Perhaps I am wrong, and Calamity will continue to degenerate as Hearstone has been so kind to enlighten the server of its members inablity (or desire?) to defend with numbers. In which case certainly both Vanquish and Dynasty could take land fairly. (I mean if you can't be bothered to defend it...lol)

I was simply proposing that if calamity were able to maintain its current strength,it would be unlikely to see more than a bi-colored map. There just isn't enough player base nor organization for Vanquish and Dynasty to increase thier power but too much more, and I don't mean to insult eith of them. I t is a growing concern for all small faction to be over-run with alts.

Whaaat? When did Cala lose against EQ when someone else wasn't attacking?

ButtSekks - Dreamweaver

lol i replied.. but it only got half my reply... too tired to write again

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

To be honest, I don't care if Calamity is wiped off the map. I do want to see more colors on the map though, and pardon everyone else from thinking this way, but if you're not red and TWing, you're doing your part to add more color to the map.

First off, wow, this thread has exploded with comments... some spam ... some not, yes I read them. It helps pass the time.

Anyways... to comment on what I quoted above.

Correct me if I am wrong Illyana, but I think you meant that if "Your not red, and are not twing, then you aren't doing your part to add more color to the map" which is just oh so wrong in so many ways. I can't fathom how much I lost the will to do anything to lift a finger to stop calamity after what happen with me in equinox, admittedly some of it was my fault, but still I really don't mind seeing them hold a majority of the servers land; however, what is done is done, it is nice to see equinox gain more and more land from calamity whether it be in a gank, or one on one.

ButtSekks wrote:

Firstly EQ land max is half.. that is not saying it is our goal to take half. We are just self imposing a cap of 1/2 lands (if that is ever even the case) on the road of achieving our goals. Your logic is not correct in assuming EQ is the only faction that has, can or will ever beat Calamity. Vanq has, Dyna has and as similar factions gain strength, experience, lvls, gear, membership others will hopefully as well.

Facts are.. calamity wants the map for whatever reasons. Equinox does not because the people here push for the fundamental principles of respect, equality and the hard work necessary to achieve these sever wide.

Only time will tell, if your words have even a spec of truth, things change anything could happen by the time eq holds half, greed has a funny way of taking a hold of even the best of us. =x

EDIT: Also yes equinox has beaten cala in a one on one match before, was even when I was in the faction with them, they tried taking a land back from equinox, but failed to do so for whatever reason. It has also happen recently, granted if equinox beat cala one on one 9 times out of 10 it was in a stall mate; however, if memory serves me right it has been done in less.

ButtSekks - Dreamweaver

@Miz

You say "equinox wants half the map" again as stated above we do not.
Your whole grass roots campaign **** is garbage coming from someone who, got to 92
or w/e and then just joined cala.. during your tenure they have lost lands btw.


@ Shadowfire

Very nice of Calamity to "allow those" lands aside for those factions. LoL are they royal subjects?
Peasants perhaps? Living on the coffers and table scraps calamity allows other factions to have.
More like they are just smaller obstacles in the clearly stated goal of Calamity of map domination.

Or let me guess you guys are "only after wiping Equinox off the map" a tale sounding similar to a broken record not only I have heard.
But, others as well in the broken promises to Inversion, threats to Vanqish and the "I told you so" pms to Dynasty.

If this were true why every time Dynasty, or Vanqish gains a land do you immediately take that opportunity to seize it back?

Our tactics were purly stated to open the eyes of dreamweaver to the oppression and choke hold they would soon face.
If calamity were allowed to continue down its path of domination and continue to subject dreamwever to its despotism.
Your factionmate Throck is a poet it seems, I am however not so good at such things so to illustrate:


First they came... Dreamweaver

THEY CAME FIRST for Immortal
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't in Immortal.

THEN THEY CAME for the Dynasty,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a part of Dynasty.

THEN THEY CAME for the Equinox,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't in EQ.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to stop the map from going red.


(Can check out Pastor Martin Niem

ButtSekks - Dreamweaver

continued....


(Can check out Pastor Martin Niemoller's original in Milton Mayer's They Thought They Were Free)

WE did not take all of dynasty's lands.. we took 2.. Calamity has taken 9.

Calamity has attacked smaller factions that did not even attack them, Inversion, Envy (off the top of my head)



@Anarchy

1v1 is fair? The current pwi system allows for 3 simultaneous attacks this is in place to insure that no one
faction becomes too powerful. Something Dreamweaver just has seemed to obtained a grasp of. Fair is showing up, fighting hard and with respect. Who are we to circumnavigate the tested systems in place in the game? Saying only 1v1 victory is fair is just placing your own morality which doesn't coincide with the rules and origination already placed in game.

p/s your sig cracks me up.

@ Toxic

Someone I am sure can get you a list, First one was in December 2009. Vid of that fight here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xFLaxLHbMw


~Hope I addressed most of the issues that concerned your posts. My original post was longer and more fluent,
but I am freaking tired and want to go to bed.

Shadowfire - Dreamweaver

ButtSekks - Dreamweaver wrote: »

@ Shadowfire


Or let me guess you guys are "only after wiping Equinox off the map" a tale sounding similar to a broken record not only I have heard.
But, others as well in the broken promises to Inversion, threats to Vanqish and the "I told you so" pms to Dynasty.

If this were true why every time Dynasty, or Vanqish gains a land do you immediately take that opportunity to seize it back?

Our tactics were purly stated to open the eyes of dreamweaver to the oppression and choke hold they would soon face.
If calamity were allowed to continue down its path of domination and continue to subject dreamwever to its despotism.

Out of curiousity, what logical reason is there to let factions (Dynasty and Vanquish) that are clearly working to support the interests of Equinox benefit from working with Equinox? I know you understand strategy better than that, Ajay. You're also very good at PR, which is why you didn't address a lot of the questions we asked.
You wish to oppose the "red domination", and have established an arbitrary 1/2 of the map limit on yourselves. So, if you should manage to accomplish this goal and reach this limit through fighting Calamity, what will you do? To keep attacking you break your own rules. If other factions can't beat Calamity without fighting at the same time as Equinox, then we're left with a bi-color map. Illyana and yourself have already mentioned hard work and being able to need to hold land to have it, so I'd presume you only share with factions that can beat you legitimately in TW, as it should be. But, in doing so, you are in essence dominating 1/2 of the tw map until such time as a faction is able to beat you 1v1, which I do not foresee being soon, having watched the tws by smaller factions against both Equinox and Calamity. This means that you would idefinitely end up holding 1/2 of the map, doing the same exact thing you demonize cala for and acting the heros because "We're preserving a multi-color map and not taking more than 1/2."

Your "tactics" deprived factions of land they had earned for Equinox's own ends. Yes, you can twist this using words and fancy meanings, but in the end, that was the goal, as i quoted from Illyana: to force factions that wanted to TW to attack Calamity. I'm not making this up, I linked Illyana's post. I'll even quote the key portions of his post for you, since you'd love to just ignore it ever happened I'm sure:

"Equinox' call to arms against the dominant land-owner have gone largely unheard. When there are no little lands for which strong factions can quibble over, alliances will be forced and Calamity will have difficulty.
....
first your problem may very well be Equinox. The taste of defeat is always the most bitter at first; Equinox comes battle-hardened and well trained. May each bring their best to the fight, and in the event your faction loses, know that it is not to your opponent you are losing to, but to your long history of inaction."

This is not saying anything other than "You didn't fight with us when we asked, so we're going to take away the lands you earned fighting other factions, and force you to do what we want." And this is exactly what Equinox did in throwing away their lands to attack Dynasty and take their lands. For such a benevolent faction as you claim to be, that's a rather oppressive thing to do. And it's something Equinox has done, not just some theoretical threat made in a post to try to intimidate others. Hard to claim to want to free the map from oppression by forcing people into helping fight your fight.

Quick edit: restating source for that Illyana quote (again): http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6704072&postcount=45

Illyana - Dreamweaver

I go to sleep and this thread becomes epic! I'll be following it throughout the day while at work, so I'll get answers out to your questions.

Shadowfire, you ask a great question (no, honestly). That is, how is it that Eq will allow its alliances to get land? This is the pertinent question, right? They cannot fully ensure that anyone has land. It isn't up to EQ to decide that... but it is a fully proven fact that having friends on the map is a highly beneficial thing.

Here are a few ways that Equinox might arrange for beneficial conditions for a multicolored map.
1. By not attacking them
2. By coordinating "ganks" and stalemating the opponent until a victory is held
3. By Demoralizing the enemy and breaking them apart from the inside.
4. By taking leaves of absence from EQ to other factions.
5. By rallying support behind the vision of a multi-colored map.

There are many other ways to do it. Obviously 1 is completely in our power. 2 is a proven reality. 3 Binky is an executor-- need I say more? 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKwNRVmdt3o Here is Sunday's TW. Yes, you had to fight two other factions. We had so many extras ready that it wouldn't be difficult to ask for some to tip the balance in one faction's favor, temporarily. 5. It's been working so far; Calamity has never been weaker and people see it.

There are a few very simple things that could be done. People are becoming more and more aware of how weak Calamity is as a whole, and they too are out for blood. They have reason to be-- your faction is out to (and nearly did!) monopolize the entire maps land!

To be honest, you guys are making this pretty easy via number 3. The hay-days of Calamity are coming to a close. The people who built your once great faction are dwindling in number. Your leaders no longer listen to the heart of the faction and don't discuss your plan of action or campaign to them. People are rebelling. The leaders aren't (or weren't) even playing the game any more... perhaps making token appearances and giving orders, only. Meanwhile, the rest of the server is growing in size, gears, levels and experience. But how are they going to get experience, you ask? Well, they don't get any when your faction rolls them in 4 minutes. Did you ever wonder why EQ takes 30 mins to an hour to beat smaller, less experienced factions?

To open the TW door to the rest of the faction, proverbially speaking, will require one faction to wedge in, initially. EQ isn't done changing their tactics and bettering themselves in such a way to let others in. You can expect continued surprises and resilience on our part to help others get (and stay) on the map.

scshop

Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

3 Binky is an executor-- need I say more?

b:laughb:victoryb:bye

Illyana - Dreamweaver

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

First off, wow, this thread has exploded with comments... some spam ... some not, yes I read them. It helps pass the time.

Anyways... to comment on what I quoted above.

Correct me if I am wrong Illyana, but I think you meant that if "Your not red, and are not twing, then you aren't doing your part to add more color to the map" which is just oh so wrong in so many ways. I can't fathom how much I lost the will to do anything to lift a finger to stop calamity after what happen with me in equinox, admittedly some of it was my fault, but still I really don't mind seeing them hold a majority of the servers land; however, what is done is done, it is nice to see equinox gain more and more land from calamity whether it be in a gank, or one on one.



Only time will tell, if your words have even a spec of truth, things change anything could happen by the time eq holds half, greed has a funny way of taking a hold of even the best of us. =x

EDIT: Also yes equinox has beaten cala in a one on one match before, was even when I was in the faction with them, they tried taking a land back from equinox, but failed to do so for whatever reason. It has also happen recently, granted if equinox beat cala one on one 9 times out of 10 it was in a stall mate; however, if memory serves me right it has been done in less.

Per your request about correcting you if you're wrong: Why is it "oh so wrong"? I'm not about to correct your opinion. Opinions are just that, neither right nor wrong. Clearly, your mileage and experience has been an exception, and your time within Equinox, which admittedly ended on a low note for you, is an exception. Not everyone will appreciate the ethos and mindset of our faction.

I don't think I could find myself in a faction that was lording over the server as a bully. Others in Equinox seem to agree. There is nothing I can say to you, Slivaf, that would make you believe what I'm saying is true about Eq's self-imposed cap. There should be nothing I could say to you that could convince you, either. There is a certain amount of trust involved, for sure, and time will tell.

I'm sure you're well aware (having been in EQ) that the faction is built around the basis of respect, and Equality. We fully intend to adhere to our agreement even now when it appears as if we can face off with Cala, even while ganked and still win (see Saturday's fight).

Arliana - Dreamweaver

respect and equality..... since the beginning of the server, whoever was director at the time finds time to insult cala at least once a week.b:shocked

Illyana - Dreamweaver

Arliana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

respect and equality..... since the beginning of the server, whoever was director at the time finds time to insult cala at least once a week.b:shocked

Are you talking about Lightwish? He's long gone. Actually, after he left he went to Calamity. That was almost a year ago now.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Per your request about correcting you if you're wrong: Why is it "oh so wrong"? I'm not about to correct your opinion. Opinions are just that, neither right nor wrong. Clearly, your mileage and experience has been an exception, and your time within Equinox, which admittedly ended on a low note for you, is an exception. Not everyone will appreciate the ethos and mindset of our faction.

I don't think I could find myself in a faction that was lording over the server as a bully. Others in Equinox seem to agree. There is nothing I can say to you, Slivaf, that would make you believe what I'm saying is true about Eq's self-imposed cap. There should be nothing I could say to you that could convince you, either. There is a certain amount of trust involved, for sure, and time will tell.

I'm sure you're well aware (having been in EQ) that the faction is built around the basis of respect, and Equality. We fully intend to adhere to our agreement even now when it appears as if we can face off with Cala, even while ganked and still win (see Saturday's fight).

In my honest opinion that whole ordeal with me leaving, wasn't handled very well by anyone involved myself included.

Also to further elaborate, while it is true that sitting back and doing nothing is often a sign of "not doing anything to help" it in my own opinion can be seen as a sign (in this case) to NOT join in with cala to only strengthen them, and therefore make the map less colorful, though honestly in my case, as I am sure you yourself seen I was often unable to join in with the rest of equinox for there tw's but I did however join in on what many people assume to be eq's first victory over calamity.

Basically if a high level chose to not join calamity, but joins another upcoming guild imo it just shows that they aren't giving cala that one extra helping hand(s) that they could use in there tw's.

EDIT: I am not saying that one person makes a significant difference enough to tip the tide in calamity's favor again, but every able person that has +XX.. or even just +X helps in the tw fights.

One more thing I didn't mean to call ajay a liar, am just saying that some people's words... myself included can not always be verified until the situation arises.

Edit2: After looking it up... (lol :$) ethos... I don't think I ever really meant to question the values of equinox, as matter of fact I never truly had a problem with it, the problem laid elsewhere, and again admittedly I handled myself pretty poorly during my... attempt to try and right what I believed to be wrong, but I wasn't the only one. =x

Though as I read in a book... (the sword of truth) If both parties believe they are in the right, then there is no convincing the other that they are in the wrong, and whoever wins believes that they are in the right... ok so I am paraphrasing a bit. =x Besides admittedly my squabble was perhaps something that would never have happened whether I kept quiet, or tried to fight against it as I did. =x

Illyana - Dreamweaver

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In my honest opinion that whole ordeal with me leaving, wasn't handled very well by anyone involved myself included.

Also to further elaborate, while it is true that sitting back and doing nothing is often a sign of "not doing anything to help" it in my own opinion can be seen as a sign (in this case) to NOT join in with cala to only strengthen them, and therefore make the map less colorful, though honestly in my case, as I am sure you yourself seen I was often unable to join in with the rest of equinox for there tw's but I did however join in on what many people assume to be eq's first victory over calamity.

Basically if a high level chose to not join calamity, but joins another upcoming guild imo it just shows that they aren't giving cala that one extra helping hand(s) that they could use in there tw's.

EDIT: I am not saying that one person makes a significant difference enough to tip the tide in calamity's favor again, but every able person that has +XX.. or even just +X helps in the tw fights.

One more thing I didn't mean to call ajay a liar, am just saying that some people's words... myself included can not always be verified until the situation arises.

Cool. I think you and I are in agreement. You're right, often times one person does not win or lose a TW. I'm certainly not that one person. I can't point my finger at one person in EQ who is responsible for our victories (or our losses).

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

ButtSekks - Dreamweaver wrote: »

@Miz

You say "equinox wants half the map" again as stated above we do not.
Your whole grass roots campaign **** is garbage coming from someone who, got to 92
or w/e and then just joined cala.. during your tenure they have lost lands btw.


@ Shadowfire

Very nice of Calamity to "allow those" lands aside for those factions. LoL are they royal subjects?
Peasants perhaps? Living on the coffers and table scraps calamity allows other factions to have.
More like they are just smaller obstacles in the clearly stated goal of Calamity of map domination.

Or let me guess you guys are "only after wiping Equinox off the map" a tale sounding similar to a broken record not only I have heard.
But, others as well in the broken promises to Inversion, threats to Vanqish and the "I told you so" pms to Dynasty.

If this were true why every time Dynasty, or Vanqish gains a land do you immediately take that opportunity to seize it back?

Our tactics were purly stated to open the eyes of dreamweaver to the oppression and choke hold they would soon face.
If calamity were allowed to continue down its path of domination and continue to subject dreamwever to its despotism.
Your factionmate Throck is a poet it seems, I am however not so good at such things so to illustrate:


First they came... Dreamweaver

THEY CAME FIRST for Immortal
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't in Immortal.

THEN THEY CAME for the Dynasty,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a part of Dynasty.

THEN THEY CAME for the Equinox,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't in EQ.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to stop the map from going red.


(Can check out Pastor Martin Niem

Ajay i was in EQ longer than you were and i think i know that EQ attacked cala first....and failed.....Calamity hasnt attack certain factions because, those factions havent bothered them. They attacked Inversion because Inversion has been associated with EQ.

And I'm happy i joined cala. They are the best group of people i ever gamed with. It was better than my other option....to quit the game. I was considering Dynasty and Vanquish but I wanted to fulfill a promise i made to someone long ago. They way I looked at Cala completely changed when I joiend them. They are nothing you made them out to be Ajay. I got a lot more help there and was able to improve my wizard and now they are helping me get rank 8. Ya we gonna farm/merchant as much of it as we can. Most of the rumors i see about Cala on my alts arent true and I can say they arent because I see what goes on. For example, I laugh at people who say people join cala for the money. If people joined cala for the money, we wouldnt lose a single fight right? Ya but people dont. Now leave the personal attacks alone, we arent talking about me, but this multicolored map.

Calamity may not be at her peak right now, but she is still a force to be reckoned with. I find it funny how when EQ was in this same situation, Cala didnt ask everyone to attack EQ. Cala wanted to prove her power and attack EQ alone. When the tides are turn, EQ wants everyone to attack just to improve their chances of winning.


EDIT: Lightwish broke the agreement with Calamity, left faction, joined cala, left cala, came back to EQ and quit the game.

Anarchy - Dreamweaver

-sifts through the posturing, propaganda and carefully worded lies with anecdotes of truth-

Ah, here we go:

Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Shadowfire, you ask a great question (no, honestly). That is, how is it that Eq will allow its alliances to get land? This is the pertinent question, right? They cannot fully ensure that anyone has land. It isn't up to EQ to decide that... but it is a fully proven fact that having friends on the map is a highly beneficial thing.

Here are a few ways that Equinox might arrange for beneficial conditions for a multicolored map.
1. By not attacking them
2. By coordinating "ganks" and stalemating the opponent until a victory is held
3. By Demoralizing the enemy and breaking them apart from the inside.
4. By taking leaves of absence from EQ to other factions.
5. By rallying support behind the vision of a multi-colored map.

See? This is what I was looking for. This is a concept the current Directive of Calamity (and the one that was running the show back in December, ah hell BaldwinBoy - omg I am taking shots..ugh get your head out of your ****, this is not all about you-) cannot understand nor accept as acceptable play tactics.

You see, calamity is currently handicapped (and has been ever since BaldwinBoy muscled his way into Director the first time) by this notion that they are 'better than the whole server" they are more fair and play an honest game.....by ignoring aspects of the game that are fair to utilize.


He also discriminates against PKers and Trolls....lol Pkers are evidently not welcome in Calamity...-the most successful tw faction the server....doesn't recruit PKers?.....no wonder the attendance sucks..and trolling is evil? damn say good bye a great source of information.

so in all, if Eq continues on their path...Calamity will fail, unless they get their collective heads out of their asses and stop sucking ****....just saying xD

Cue: Vent Clique rage and defamation of Anarchy (you all (Calamity vent clique) are so cute )

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Anarchy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

-sifts through the posturing, propaganda and carefully worded lies with anecdotes of truth-

Ah, here we go:






See? This is what I was looking for. This is a concept the current Directive of Calamity (and the one that was running the show back in December, ah hell BaldwinBoy - omg I am taking shots..ugh get your head out of your ****, this is not all about you-) cannot understand nor accept as acceptable play tactics.

You see, calamity is currently handicapped (and has been ever since BaldwinBoy muscled his way into Director the first time) by this notion that they are 'better than the whole server" they are more fair and play an honest game.....by ignoring aspects of the game that are fair to utilize.


He also discriminates against PKers and Trolls....lol Pkers are evidently not welcome in Calamity...-the most successful tw faction the server....doesn't recruit PKers?.....no wonder the attendance sucks..and trolling is evil? damn say good bye a great source of information.

so in all, if Eq continues on their path...Calamity will fail, unless they get their collective heads out of their asses and stop sucking ****....just saying xD

Cue: Vent Clique rage and defamation of Anarchy (you all (Calamity vent clique) are so cute )

psst Ana, ish you in games yet :O

TEMPL/R - Dreamweaver13

at the end of the day.. you have most of the pie and other people/factions are hungry , if you don't share pie , because you want the whole pie, then we just take pie =(b:cryb:laugh

Centaura - Dreamweaver

TEMPL/R - Dreamweaver wrote: »

at the end of the day.. you have most of the pie and other people/factions are hungry , if you don't share pie , because you want the whole pie, then we just take pie =(b:cryb:laugh

Gimmie That!b:irritated

Shadowfire - Dreamweaver

Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Shadowfire, you ask a great question (no, honestly). That is, how is it that Eq will allow its alliances to get land? This is the pertinent question, right? They cannot fully ensure that anyone has land. It isn't up to EQ to decide that... but it is a fully proven fact that having friends on the map is a highly beneficial thing.

Here are a few ways that Equinox might arrange for beneficial conditions for a multicolored map.
1. By not attacking them
2. By coordinating "ganks" and stalemating the opponent until a victory is held
3. By Demoralizing the enemy and breaking them apart from the inside.
4. By taking leaves of absence from EQ to other factions.
5. By rallying support behind the vision of a multi-colored map.

Sorry for cutting down the quote, but it was a long one lol. Out of the 5 points you gave, 2, 4, and 5 all benefit only factions willing to be allies of EQ, as I don't see EQ helping factions set to harm them, no matter how much you want a multi-colored map.
As a result, the end result is a map dominated by EQ and its allies. This is still a form of domination, and based on your post, EQ seems rather heavily involved in helping factions gain and then keep land. As a result, EQ would essentially be picking and choosing who did and didn't get land. This is de facto control of the map, as you may not own the lands directly, but those that do are dependant upon you to have them. Care to explain how this is different?

Apologies for any spelling errors.


edit: To quote my last post here, where i was talking about another post by Illyana (not relinking again, it's linked twice already):

This is not saying anything other than "You didn't fight with us when we asked, so we're going to take away the lands you earned fighting other factions, and force you to do what we want." And this is exactly what Equinox did in throwing away their lands to attack Dynasty and take their lands. For such a benevolent faction as you claim to be, that's a rather oppressive thing to do. And it's something Equinox has done, not just some theoretical threat made in a post to try to intimidate others. Hard to claim to want to free the map from oppression by forcing people into helping fight your fight.

Ajay and Illyana have both had chances to address this. Why is it being avoided? I provided a direct quote from Illyana from which I drew this conclusion (and i got the general sentiment while i was in HDT, when the post i quoted was made, so it's not biased interpretation from being in Calamity). I'm just curious, how does this quote and sentiment, and the continuing implication of having to work with EQ in order to obtain land (as i explained above) fit with the wishes of a multi-colored map? If the map is multi-colored, does that mean anything if it is a block of allied factions that won't fight each other unless forced to?

Chazze - Dreamweaver

I just read the entire thread, and I'm glad I saw at least a little bit of actual dialogue going on. I count both Illy and Shadow among my friends so I hope I don't get branded as biased. I always try to remain impartial in argument regardless of what role I play. I am a member of Equinox, and I agree whole-heartedly with thier intentions for the map.

Shadow, I think your biggest misunderstanding of EQ's intentions is that they aren't looking to subjugate anyone, and they aren't looking to force alliances on anyone. That's why that question hasn't been addressed. Frankly I don't think it occured to them. Equinox wants to remove the tone of animosity from map control. The cap of one-half land is exactly what you called it earlier, a Public Relations move. How can Equinox claim to be benevolent while controlling the majority of the map? Holding less than half avoids that problem.

I'll explain. From my understanding, Equinox wants Dreamweaver as a whole to be a server of powerful players, regardless of faction. This is why Equinox willfully trains small factions the ins and outs of TWs when they attack us. When and if Equinox becomes the "dominant" faction on the server, this will be carried out on a grander scale. Without any sort of agreement or forced alliance, Equinox can choose to focus its defenses while being ganked, leaving land open for the taking. This happens all the time, so I don't see how it would violate the ToS, to answer the obvious question.

This is the part that seems to confuse people. Equinox is proactively training people to become powerful enough to challenge them. I believe BalwinBoy was quoted saying something very similar. Something along the lines of, "If someone can take land from us and defend it, they deserve to keep that land." I agree entirely. However, I believe it's even more fun to help people attain the power necessary to overcome us instead of working our hardest to make sure we are never challenged. When Calamity rolls factions in 4 minutes, nobody learns anything. We are working so there are more expert TW players. When there are more expert TW players, there can be more powerful factions.

There can obviously never be a time where there is no fighting and that isn't what Equinox's goal is. Instead we want TW to be fun. We want it to be about gamers testing their skills against each other. We want new players on the server to feel like they have a chance to become a great player one day without living under the shadow of 200 players that control everything and will not share. With Equinox's plan, they will never become that group of 200 players. Obviously it's hard to support that this is our intent right now because of some of the history the server has and the pink swelling on the map. That's why it's hard to understand where we're coming from. But our crusade is against dominion and tyranny, not against Calamity.

Lieal - Dreamweaver

Just something I'm honestly curious about... isn't "training" TWs against the ToS? I remember back when I was in Equinox, the whole training session between Dynasty and Equinox was all "hush hush" because the leaders didn't want to get banned. According to someone I asked, it's against the ToS due to the fact that it "disrupts other factions' attempts to TW" or something like that...

So I'm just kind of confused about where Equinox stands on that, lol. Because I remember Dominion/Midnight/TheTitans (whichever one of those, I don't even remember) being banned for just TWing against each other on non-serious terms.

Maybe I've just misunderstood the rules. =/

Chazze - Dreamweaver

Alright well if that is the case, first and foremost I am not an officer of Equinox and I speak only from hearsay and my own opinions.

However I find it hard to believe that fighting our TWs how we want to fight them could be against any ToS. As far as I know it's only against the rules to pay factions to bid. In the case I stated in my above post, no specific faction would be provided any incentive, financial or otherwise, to attack anyone.

Lieal - Dreamweaver

This is precisely why we need a straight set of rules for Territory Wars... would make life so much more easier. T_T I know TheTitans leader Merlin and Midnight leader - Acara? - were banned ages ago for paying money and exchanging land, so we can be certain on that one.

Yorkin - Dreamweaver

Okay, okay. I see the talks have got a bit flamed up. Before I start there are two things I would like to ask/point out.

First, if Equinox were the one owning most of the map, would you hate THEM for that? Would a title of this thread be "Challenge for Equinox?"? Or any other dominating faction, for that matter.

Second, neither Calamity or Equinox have any responsibility to other factions and players on sharing or not sharing the rest of map. Yes, they are both powerful, and OH YES, everyone wants to join once the level up to 90+ or 100+ in some minor factions.

Frankly, I don't give a damn who owns the map. It is not the territory, it is the players themselves I want to correspond to. You might say: "Yeah, you're a low level player, some excuse..."

Big mumbo-jumbo politics about making place for everyone sounds a bit dishonest to me. You sound like the leaders in conference of Jalta. They divided the world into NATO and Eastern Block. And since we have "the Reds" on the map, guess who's the NATO b:chuckle... do I need to say anything further?

However, sense of sharing does show that both factions are mature and, at least partially, follow the old saying "With great power, comes great responsibility." (unlike some real world leaders I could mention).

You know, I really, really don't give a damn which faction are you from or which level are you on. If you ask me for help, I'll try to help (provided I don't fall asleep while someone hands in the BH quest after every single monster and then returns to dungeon; I apologize for that one). I mean, the real world is too much antiutopian these days. At least we can make this one a little bit... well... perfect b:pleased.

So all this squabbling over TW is a loss of time. If Calamity holds most of/entire map, so what, if Equinox does/doesn't approve on that, so what... It just a game, a competition. You are turning it into politics, my dear co-players, nothing more. And that will ruin the game.

When Etherblade City was still in hands of Equinox, surrounded by Calamity (and that was a very very long time ago) I had to do a FB29. And to my surprise, I was invited into a squad comprised of 2 Equinox members (a Executor and a Commisioner) and 3 Calamity members (Executor and 2 Commisioners). Executors were waaaaaaaaaaay level above us. But still, I didn't find any words of hostility in squad chat (and I think there wasn't time for whispering) despite the fact we were doing the FB prior to siege of Etherblade. And, this may hurt others who helped me later, that was one of the best dungeons I ever had and felt like we did something really really special.

So... we don't have to be friends and all, but... just do something more constructive. Don't squabble.

I bid you all, Equinox and Calamity, Vanquish and HDT, and all others, good luck and safe journies.

Heartstone - Dreamweaver

Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You're mistaken. Eq will never own the entire map. They will never own more than 1/2.

ok i know old quote.

But tbh, EQ's attitude. these it the steps:

1) EQ is currently the udnerdog, ppl wants to help udnerdog
2) so Underdog makes Server think they want colorful map) maybe some do, not all
3) so they get Server trust it will be different
4) they use the server to help gank #x
5) then suddently 50/50 map split
6) oh u know what, u guys was jsut tools in our evil plan, sry!

7) profit XD

no seriously, ppl who know EQ's overall attitude should know. commonly used across games also, nothign new. dont let them fool ya lolz.


but either way it seems with new TW system it wont matter with number of TW land rly. only ones benefitting form it will be ppl alrdy with Rank 8 to go Rank 9. so getting closer to careless lol.