Wizards Defeated?

brownflamer

Wizards has been known as the best(one of the best) classes end-game for pvp.......Did the sins take this spot from us?

Are we "second fiddle" now...compared to them?

Did they take the spotlight?


Are we not the most FEARED class anymore?

MagicHamsta - Lost City

brownflamer wrote: »

Wizards has been known as the best(one of the best) classes end-game for pvp.......Did the sins take this spot from us?

Are we "second fiddle" now...compared to them?

Did they take the spotlight?


Are we not the most FEARED class anymore?

when were we feared?
b:puzzled
now get back to not fearing me and look away while me channel this darn super long channeling skill.
b:surrender

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

It hardly depend on gear. You cannot own some1 who has +10 weapon and gear +8 and you have +3.
Yesterday I saw wizard with shinbaranco +12 and all event gear +10, all has 4 sockets fill up with +1 attack stones. Try to beat him. And of course all Pdef. ornament +10 even lunar rings he has +8.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

lol, whoever underestimates an endgame wizard will click on "go to town"

MagicHamsta - Lost City

squab wrote: »

go HIT 90

Jesus

what if me already hit 90 and the foums be lagging?

okies me didn't
b:surrender

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

yea sins are good.... good when they're not killed with 1-2 hits^^

but if they survive... fortify ftw

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

Well geared assassin can kill 1 player extremely fast and run away with it.

Well geared wizard can kill a lot of players in 4 seconds, with just one skill

brownflamer

So....Wizards still own endgame? b:victory

With all the assasin QQ....I thought they were some sort of....super OP class

brownflamer

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It hardly depend on gear. You cannot own some1 who has +10 weapon and gear +8 and you have +3.
Yesterday I saw wizard with shinbaranco +12 and all event gear +10, all has 4 sockets fill up with +1 attack stones. Try to beat him. And of course all Pdef. ornament +10 even lunar rings he has +8.

b:shocked that's one bada$$ motha ******

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol, whoever underestimates an endgame wizard will click on "go to town"

LOL...this^ sounds good ^^

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

yea sins are good.... good when they're not killed with 1-2 hits^^

but if they survive... fortify ftw

My hope in wizards is being renewed b:pleased

/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »

Well geared assassin can kill 1 player extremely fast and run away with it.

Well geared wizard can kill a lot of players in 4 seconds, with just one skill

BIDS FTW

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

when were we feared?
now get back to not fearing me and look away while me channel this darn super long channeling skill.

Hamstab:scorn Who's side are you on..... ~.^

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

brownflamer wrote: »

So....Wizards still own endgame? b:victory

With all the assasin QQ....I thought they were some sort of....super OP class

Sins are pritty damn strong vs robes. It looks like they were actually digined to kill robe classes.

BUuuuut, this is only 1v1, and with alot of help from element of suprise (stealth). But sins make no chance against say a catasquad, exept by sneaking up on the cleric and taking it out.
A wizzy can kill said catasquad in 1 shot.

So it really depends on owning in what part of PvP.
1v1 against a sin stunning you out of stealth: Might be a problem.
Being on the receiving end of a wizzy ulti: Just as big a problem, maybe even worse

Kristoph - Lost City

In the end at endgame sins are always going to have the advantage. Being able to come out of stealth with triple spark means you die if they crit. With stuff like frenzy they go up to like 50 att level, they have ~40% crit and 230% crit damage, along with the element of surprise and even zerk daggers. There's little you can do about getting oneshot out of nowhere.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

In the end at endgame sins are always going to have the advantage. Being able to come out of stealth with triple spark means you die if they crit. With stuff like frenzy they go up to like 50 att level, they have ~40% crit and 230% crit damage, along with the element of surprise and even zerk daggers. There's little you can do about getting oneshot out of nowhere.

I don't think any endgame wizard would die to 1 hit especially because there are powders, instant sleep, fortify and expel to buy us time to hit back. Anyway, I guess assassins will hate heavy wizards a lot more than heavy venos. And... I must say I love to purge assassin tricks while pet keeps him/her busy.

Taarloor - Harshlands

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't think any endgame wizard would die to 1 hit especially because there are powders, instant sleep, fortify and expel to buy us time to hit back.

Wrong.

Triple spark in stealth (which is rediculous to say the least) then decent gear = 5.0 attk speed, dex based high crit, charm bug (charm wont tick) and even .25seconds lag = you standing there minding your own business, you lag for a quarter of a second, then you have goto toen on your screen, a sin doing his little shimmy ontop of you, and a damage log reading:

you take 2100
you take 2350
you take 940

All while having 5300 hp.

I now have to keep my finger on expel at all times when at west gates QQ, but if i catch them with expel, even best geared sin is dead seconds later.

Its even in that regard.

Zuunu - Heavens Tear

brownflamer wrote: »

So....Wizards still own endgame? b:victory

With all the assasin QQ....I thought they were some sort of....super OP class

No class is "over-powered." Take a Veno for example. People say they are overpowered with nix/herc, but I'm sure anyone could be if they spent a total of $300 into their characters.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Zuunu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No class is "over-powered." Take a Veno for example. People say they are overpowered with nix/herc, but I'm sure anyone could be if they spent a total of $300 into their characters.

300$ is nothing. I would say at least 3000$. Most expensive is refining.

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver

sin isnt a problem 1v1 just get expel and some anti stun apots. and even if u dont their dmg will hardly bypass ur charm if u got good hp and deff

also there is apots that make sin go out of stealth meaning they cant spark and pop up on u

and i know that barbs and bms dont fear sin as much as they fear wiz. nothing can 1 shot a barb then wiz. well a good barb

Kristoph - Lost City

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't think any endgame wizard would die to 1 hit especially because there are powders, instant sleep, fortify and expel to buy us time to hit back. Anyway, I guess assassins will hate heavy wizards a lot more than heavy venos. And... I must say I love to purge assassin tricks while pet keeps him/her busy.

Yes, you will die in 1 hit. Ever been hit by an assassin with +12 nirvana daggers with zerk? And hey back then there wasn't even any triple spark.


And heavy armor wizards don't exist endgame. Nobody bothers.

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

sin isnt a problem 1v1 just get expel and some anti stun apots. and even if u dont their dmg will hardly bypass ur charm if u got good hp and deff

also there is apots that make sin go out of stealth meaning they cant spark and pop up on u

and i know that barbs and bms dont fear sin as much as they fear wiz. nothing can 1 shot a barb then wiz. well a good barb

Yes, they can bypass your charm easily. And no, there is no apots that make sins go out of stealth. There's pots which give 20 detection level. Meaning you can't see the ones that are 92+, because they have 122 stealth.


And lol who cares about barbs? You can't oneshot a good cleric either.

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Yes, you will die in 1 hit. Ever been hit by an assassin with +12 nirvana daggers with zerk? And hey back then there wasn't even any triple spark.

So, you say that assassin with +12 Nirvana daggers can oneshot cata barb? Because that's what wizards are able to do even *without* Nirvana :P


Comparing wizard and assassin is like comparing heavy artillery bombarding frontline and a sniper sent to kill enemy general. When you kill general, there's still whole army to fight against. If artillery destroys whole army, general alone won't do ****


I'm speaking TW-wise, world PvP is different story...

But I guess well-geared and skilled HA veno with nix would beat assassin anyway

Kristoph - Lost City

/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »

So, you say that assassin with +12 Nirvana daggers can oneshot cata barb? Because that's what wizards are able to do even *without* Nirvana :P

Are you a barb? No. Did I say assassins can oneshot a barb? No. Can you oneshot a good cleric? No. Does this mean you can't kill them? No. Use your own common sense, please.


And no you can't oneshot a barb unless their gear is horrible or if they're plain idiots and don't know how to use a genie.

/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »

Comparing wizard and assassin is like comparing heavy artillery bombarding frontline and a sniper sent to kill enemy general. When you kill general, there's still whole army to fight against. If artillery destroys whole army, general alone won't do ****

You might want to actually read something in this thread before you post. People were talking about Assassins vs Arcane and Assassins vs Wizards. In which case the assassin will have the advantage endgame.

Paimage - Harshlands

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Are you a barb? No. Did I say assassins can oneshot a barb? No. Can you oneshot a good cleric? No. Does this mean you can't kill them? No. Use your own common sense, please.


And no you can't oneshot a barb unless their gear is horrible or if they're plain idiots and don't know how to use a genie.


You might want to actually read something in this thread before you post. People were talking about Assassins vs Arcane and Assassins vs Wizards. In which case the assassin will have the advantage endgame.

Its true that in a 1v1 between a barb with excellent gear and a wizard with excellent gear too is near impossible to one shot the barb although, I think u didnt get what he said... He didnt say asssassins cant kill barb, cleric or whatever, he simply said an assassin regardless of how fast they can kill one target they cant kill multiple targets like a wizard does with his deadly aoes or one shot single targets with jus one skill and thats y he compares wizard with the artillery bombarding frontline and assassin with a sniper that was sent to kill the general in a war.
Now I ask you, before you ask him to use his common sense pls use your own brain.

brownflamer

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

People were talking about Assassins vs Arcane and Assassins vs Wizards. In which case the assassin will have the advantage endgame.

b:cry

Koni said wizzie's are the best b:infuriated b:sad

Ursa - Dreamweaver

cool down kids.
Sins have a purpose: kill endgame robes.
They have all the tools and all the glitches to do so.
Let's be a little realistic here, endgame wizards with good gear and decent refines are one of the toughest class to bring down. High magic def, high pdef, high dmg +genie debuffs +undine, sleep, seal, nukes that can easily bypass a charm even with a non-crit.
Everyone is talking about how Sins are overpowered endgame, and I jump in that bandwagon too. But if somehow their initial attach can be fended off, they are as squishy as a lemon.
Their biggest advantage for now is the ability to tripple spark while in stealth. That is somewhat unfair, but as someone said , Barbs had the same advantage at one point (tripple spark in tiger form had no animation). Take that tripple spark out of stealth ... and let's see how many weapons a Sin has to live against any other class? Don't bulls me with that skill that avoids death. LA endgame is **** but at least archers have the range advantage. LA melee endgame is the worst possible combination of all of them.
I don't know what would be the best solution: taking away the stealth tripple spark would create riots, as many raised them just to be able to stealth-demon spark- stun-hit. Leaving them with this advantage would not be fair either for all the other classes. But as of now, PvP-ing with an endgame Sin is much like pvp with a veno: Send nix -> option a:kill - yay, option b:fail-flee. Sin is more like Demon spark-stun-hit -> option a: kill-yay, option b: fail-stealth-flee.

Kristoph - Lost City

Paimage - Harshlands wrote: »

Its true that in a 1v1 between a barb with excellent gear and a wizard with excellent gear too is near impossible to one shot the barb although, I think u didnt get what he said... He didnt say asssassins cant kill barb, cleric or whatever, he simply said an assassin regardless of how fast they can kill one target they cant kill multiple targets like a wizard does with his deadly aoes or one shot single targets with jus one skill and thats y he compares wizard with the artillery bombarding frontline and assassin with a sniper that was sent to kill the general in a war.
Now I ask you, before you ask him to use his common sense pls use your own brain.

I didn't say he said assassins couldn't kill barbs. I didn't say wizards weren't better for AOEing people. That doesn't mean wizards are a better pvp class. Wizards can't kill multiple targets so easily either. You're horribly ignorant if you think you can simply drop an ulti and watch people die. Only times that will happen in TW is if your guild is already overpowering the enemy guild. If you're up against people your own level, meaning at least 90% 10x, people won't die so easy unless you have a ridiculous gear advantage or if they happen to be purged of their buffs.


And yes, Assassins can oneshot targets the way a wizard can. Because you can stack every buff you want without your target knowing anything. They don't even have demon/sage skills yet and they're already capable of critting people for 6k with ease, without +10-12 zerk daggers, but some simple +8 hh99 or lunar. And you can't do anything to counter it.

brownflamer

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

I didn't say he said assassins couldn't kill barbs. I didn't say wizards weren't better for AOEing people. That doesn't mean wizards are a better pvp class. Wizards can't kill multiple targets so easily either. You're horribly ignorant if you think you can simply drop an ulti and watch people die. Only times that will happen in TW is if your guild is already overpowering the enemy guild. If you're up against people your own level, meaning at least 90% 10x, people won't die so easy unless you have a ridiculous gear advantage or if they happen to be purged of their buffs.


And yes, Assassins can oneshot targets the way a wizard can. Because you can stack every buff you want without your target knowing anything. They don't even have demon/sage skills yet and they're already capable of critting people for 6k with ease, without +10-12 zerk daggers, but some simple +8 hh99 or lunar. And you can't do anything to counter it.

So they did take the number 1 spot for pvp away from wizardsb:sad


Good thing I quit when they came outb:surrender

Borsuc - Raging Tide

I saw this thread and thought "someone realized psychics overpower mages in every way imaginable except ultis (but even those come close with black voodoo on)", then I saw comparison mage vs sin. lolwut?

No comment on that one.

Also it's not easy to 1-shot a barb at all... dare I say impossible if the barb is of equal skill AND gear AND level -- otherwise the whole point is moot, sorry. People have too high expectations of wizard's ultimates. You say Extreme Poison? I say Evil Ward. You say Frenzy? I say Wind Shield. Let's not get into the Absolute Domain skill. Heck even apothecary items that reduce damage taken even can be used. (we, after all, depend on spark pots, so enemy has to have apoth items too, fair and all).

And no, it's NOT hard to pull a pot in time to receive 50% less damage since wizard channeling is TOO DAMN SLOW.

Wizards are not the only class to use genies or pots or whatever you know. All the "wizards are one-shotters" assume you're fighting people of lower skill or lower gear than you. Or noobs.

brownflamer

There was a time when we used to be the best b:sad


Good old days b:surrender

Emeryl - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I saw this thread and thought "someone realized psychics overpower mages in every way imaginable except ultis (but even those come close with black voodoo on)".

Wizards are not the only class to use genies or pots or whatever you know. All the "wizards are one-shotters" assume you're fighting people of lower skill or lower gear than you. Or noobs.

True, I found the Psychs a offense to the Wizard class, they have much more versatility with few skills and a strong AOE healing skill, not to mention their slow cast time. Playing with the same build I was able to kill monsters with 3 skills, while with the Wizard I had to use 4 skills at all.

Not to complain about the class cause I know their strenghts and weakness, but they really should give to Wizz a lower casting time (cause with some skills the animation simple takes to long), less MP usage for the skills (cause without then we are nothing), something to do physical damage than the lv59 skill and cheap soulpoints for buy our skills, cause we don't use some of then simple because we don't have space for those skills.

Paimage - Harshlands

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I saw this thread and thought "someone realized psychics overpower mages in every way imaginable except ultis (but even those come close with black voodoo on)", then I saw comparison mage vs sin. lolwut?

No comment on that one.

Also it's not easy to 1-shot a barb at all... dare I say impossible if the barb is of equal skill AND gear AND level -- otherwise the whole point is moot, sorry. People have too high expectations of wizard's ultimates. You say Extreme Poison? I say Evil Ward. You say Frenzy? I say Wind Shield. Let's not get into the Absolute Domain skill. Heck even apothecary items that reduce damage taken even can be used. (we, after all, depend on spark pots, so enemy has to have apoth items too, fair and all).

And no, it's NOT hard to pull a pot in time to receive 50% less damage since wizard channeling is TOO DAMN SLOW.

Wizards are not the only class to use genies or pots or whatever you know. All the "wizards are one-shotters" assume you're fighting people of lower skill or lower gear than you. Or noobs.

When I was lvl8x and fought a psychic I thought myself "psychics r reallly an op class and they can go shoulder to shoulder with wiz in power", but now having fought lvl100 psychics with good gears several times I can tell you that they arent as dangerous as a wizard, perhaps in duel b:laugh

P.S. I want to add that you wont always have pots out of cooldown or genies to use whenever a wizard uses a skill and sutra can make wizards throw a ultimate skill so fast that u cant even react in time lol

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

psys are squishies. archers and pets abuse them...

back to the assassin subject, clerics and venos are much more vulnerable than wizards. clerics have 1s channel for sleep and venos have 1s channel for bramble hood. on the other hand, wizards have instant sleep. if you come to the conclusion an average endgame assassin (not with +12 stuff) beats an average wizard, then there will be a good reason for 90+ wizards to go light or even heavy.

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

You might want to actually read something in this thread before you post. People were talking about Assassins vs Arcane and Assassins vs Wizards. In which case the assassin will have the advantage endgame.

I read opening post and my answer referred only to it. I'm not into "QQ assassin killed me QQ" threads. b:surrender

I don't care about lvl 100 sins with cash shoped gear now - any lvl 100 with event gear will pwn me anyway as soon as I get targetted.

My level assassins lose to me everytime I manage to hit Absolute Domain once they start attacking me - no matter if they got average or uber gear. It's quite amusing, since I'm rather noob in PvP


Now, considering efficiency of wizard and assassin, wizard will still shine in TW, where people cluster a lot and beg to get AoEd. You can pull off nice killing spree as a wizard and, if only know what you're doing, you will survive a lot. Assassin *depends* on stealth to survive, no matter what kind of gear he has, so he wastes some time between kills.

Summarizing: assassin is better in world PvP, where he got plenty of time to prepare attack. Wizard is better in TW, where you got time running out and limited HQ cristal HP and you *have to* kill as many opponents as possible in shortest possible time.

Adroit - Lost City

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

psys are squishies. archers and pets abuse them...

back to the assassin subject, clerics and venos are much more vulnerable than wizards. clerics have 1s channel for sleep and venos have 1s channel for bramble hood. on the other hand, wizards have instant sleep. if you come to the conclusion an average endgame assassin (not with +12 stuff) beats an average wizard, then there will be a good reason for 90+ wizards to go light or even heavy.

No.

/10char