Nirvana - Casting examples

24

Comments

  • blindeyesniper
    blindeyesniper Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I was under the impression that lunar weapons are all G15 but mis-labeled. They certainly refine as if they're G15.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Well you are comparing the base damage of claws to fists which are different types of weapons.

    Lunar ("G13" that refines as G15) has the same base damage as TT99 ("G12" that refines as G12) so base damage is not based on grade.

    lunar fist 556-615: http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/16108
    tt99 fist 556-615: http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/14869
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well you are comparing the base damage of claws to fists which are different types of weapons.

    Lunar ("G13" that refines as G15) has the same base damage as TT99 ("G12" that refines as G12) so base damage is not based on grade.

    lunar fist 556-615: http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/16108
    tt99 fist 556-615: http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/14869

    Yes, I'm aware that they are different weapon types, I stated as such several posts ago. I was just referring to the fact that they do not refine the same.

    So are you stating that G13 Nirvana weapons are actually G15?
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  • blindeyesniper
    blindeyesniper Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Yes, I'm aware that they are different weapon types, I stated as such several posts ago. I was just referring to the fact that they do not refine the same.

    So are you stating that G13 Nirvana weapons are actually G15?

    People are saying Lunar weapons, which are G13, are actually G15.

    Also, I think G13 Nirvana are G15. They refine the same as G15. The Nirvana weapon that's labeled G15 just has better base damage.
  • samasalao
    samasalao Posts: 159 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    axt57 wrote: »
    Sure:

    20091231141638.gif

    Check the refines on both weapons. You will find the NP has refined far better then the TT100. In fact the NP refined exactly as a G15 weapon would have - and at +10 (as a wand) outdamaging the min attack of a TT100 magic sword.

    Both magic swords and wands have the same refine rate.

    That is not a G13 weapon.

    WOW damn impressive. And I was thinking in selling my lunar weapon as part of the money required for twilight scepter, I am not doing so anymore. I'll rather overrefine it instead, while I save enough for nirvana. Thanks a lot for the info.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    blindeyesniper wrote: »
    People are saying Lunar weapons, which are G13, are actually G15.

    Also, I think G13 Nirvana are G15. They refine the same as G15. The Nirvana weapon that's labeled G15 just has better base damage.

    If the base damage contributes to refine bonus, then there is a dramatic difference between what is labeled as G13 and G15 Nirvana, and I would indeed call them G13 and G15.

    *shrug*
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  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Michael thanks for info.
    I'm considering to go with lunar-nirvana gear. I already made lunar chest arcane armor. Is much cheaper, than gold TT/99. b:pleased
    But some pieces I will have from TT99. So it will be really mess. b:chuckle
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  • blindeyesniper
    blindeyesniper Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Michael thanks for info.
    I'm considering to go with lunar-nirvana gear. I already made lunar chest arcane armor. Is much cheaper, than gold TT/99. b:pleased
    But some pieces I will have from TT99. So it will be really mess. b:chuckle

    I thought Lunar equipments (gold color ones that can be reforged) are a lot more expensive than tt99? I want to go Lunar->Nirvana too! b:dirtyb:dirty
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    blindeyesniper wrote: »
    I thought Lunar equipments (gold color ones that can be reforged) are a lot more expensive than tt99? I want to go Lunar->Nirvana too! b:dirtyb:dirty

    Actually is much cheaper. I made G.13 gold lunar chest very cheap. The most expensive mats is just Chromatic tinder. And with cheap gold TT mats It cost me around 18M.
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Michael thanks for info.
    I'm considering to go with lunar-nirvana gear. I already made lunar chest arcane armor. Is much cheaper, than gold TT/99. b:pleased
    But some pieces I will have from TT99. So it will be really mess. b:chuckle

    The Lunar Chest is probably a bit cheaper, I can tell you that the wrists/boots/leggings are probably not. Oh well, doesn't really matter, it's all good armor and the only thing that matters is if you're satisfied. :)
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • ladykirika
    ladykirika Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    The Lunar Chest is probably a bit cheaper, I can tell you that the wrists/boots/leggings are probably not. Oh well, doesn't really matter, it's all good armor and the only thing that matters is if you're satisfied. :)

    Has anyone gotten 2 pieces of Lunar nirvana to know what the set bonus is? b:thanks
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    jsox9f.jpg
    TT100 base is 643-710. Which is 676.5 +/- 5% (all fists seem to be +/- 5%)
    Lunar base is 498-673 is 585.5 +/- 15% (all claws seem to be +/- 15%)

    TT100 +10 is 1077.5 avg, so the +10 refine gives +401
    Lunar +10 is 1053.5 avg, so the +10 refine gives +468

    Note that these numbers are closer to the +9 refine listed in pwdatabase. So pwdatabase appears to be wrong for the refine rate on these weapons.

    The ratio of 468/401 is also very close to 15/13.
    axt57 wrote: »
    20091231141638.gif
    Also note that magic weapons appear to gain the same refine bonus to physical attack as they do to magical attack. This is significantly higher than the refine claw/fists are getting. Dunno if the same holds for the other melee weapons.

    A consequence is that in base state, Neon Purgatory (base 399-488 phys attack, 443.5 avg) does significantly less melee damage per hit that Deicide (585.5 avg). But by the time you refine it to +10, it does more damage per hit. 1067.5 avg for NP+10, 1053.5 avg for Deicide+10.

    Wands have the worst melee damage of magic weapons too. If the lunar magic sword Buddha's Leaf refines the same as NP, its base avg 570 phys attack would become 1194 at +10.

    This bodes particularly well for melee fox venos. A lunar claw user refining to +10 gains 80% to base weapon damage. A lunar magic sword user refining to +10 gains 109% to phys attack. (The gain in magic attack is only 67.5%.)
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Btw Heavenrage boots are most likely not G14, since they recieve G15 refine bonus, the event helm is likely to be the same.

    About nirvana binding - someone mentioned before that if the equipment used to make nirvana is not bound (e.g. you made your TT99 shirt, but have not equiped it yet), then the nirvana you make will not bind to you.

    Is this true or false?

    Also:

    29zq5hg.jpg

    I hope for this person's sake that quenching does not remove refines.
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  • Hhlolz - Harshlands
    Hhlolz - Harshlands Posts: 574 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    >.> LF Guild that does nirvana
    *Faildom*
    I don't need a Squad
    Level a Venomancer to 90.
    Aug 12, 2009
  • Tutmozis - Harshlands
    Tutmozis - Harshlands Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    You only keep shards and refines during the reforge process. You lose all refines and shards when recasting TT99/TT100/Lunar to Nirvana G13 and also when you quench to G15.


    Hi, its sound fine, but do I loose my sockets too ? My TT99 Constellation Fall have 2 socket, will that stay ?
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    axt57 wrote: »
    Btw Heavenrage boots are most likely not G14, since they recieve G15 refine bonus, the event helm is likely to be the same.

    In this case you're clearly wrong and there is evidence to prove it, and the same goes for Helm of Holy Punishment.

    Both of these items can be farmed in-game, and there are 3 grades farmable... G12, G13 and G14. Regardless of what they actually refine as, the three grades *are* available.
    About nirvana binding - someone mentioned before that if the equipment used to make nirvana is not bound (e.g. you made your TT99 shirt, but have not equiped it yet), then the nirvana you make will not bind to you.

    Nirvana auto-binds when it is equipped. If the crafter's donor piece is already bound to them, the Nirvana upgrade will remain bound to them. If the donor piece is not bound, the Nirvana piece will not be bound until someone equips it. Hope that helps.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    In this case you're clearly wrong and there is evidence to prove it, and the same goes for Helm of Holy Punishment.

    Both of these items can be farmed in-game, and there are 3 grades farmable... G12, G13 and G14. Regardless of what they actually refine as, the three grades *are* available.

    Who says they are not mislabeled and are actually G13, G14, G15? It would make more sense since the "G14" boots receive G15 refines. Its identical.
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    axt57 wrote: »
    Who says they are not mislabeled and are actually G13, G14, G15? It would make more sense since the "G14" boots receive G15 refines. Its identical.

    Then you're saying they mislabeled 6 different items consecutively instead of making it intentional as this would seem to be. You're stretching your argument a bit thin on this one I think.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • mulanrouge
    mulanrouge Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Then you're saying they mislabeled 6 different items consecutively instead of making it intentional as this would seem to be. You're stretching your argument a bit thin on this one I think.

    b:chuckle he edited within first minute. damn me for not quoting.

    I can tell you that at +10, the arcane event boots & helm give +780 hp.

    you all can fight it from there...
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  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Then you're saying they mislabeled 6 different items consecutively instead of making it intentional as this would seem to be. You're stretching your argument a bit thin on this one I think.

    Oh what am I saying; this is PW - mislabeling in this game is unheard off. I'm really glad all the skills have always been correctly labelled in this game.

    Also there is no argument; I'm simply stating facts. "G14" boots refine like G15 boots.
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    mulanrouge wrote: »
    you all can fight it from there...

    Nirvana Arcane G15 only refines as G14 for HP... so go figure. Then by all means Nirvana Arcane is noly G14. lol Goes both ways really.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • mulanrouge
    mulanrouge Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Nirvana Arcane G15 only refines as G14 for HP... so go figure. Then by all means Nirvana Arcane is noly G14. lol Goes both ways really.

    tbh i was never arguing the refine. it was known to myself and more then a few that G15 refined for G14. the question then becomes what are the differences between the different weapon paths, is the refinement of a G15 Nirvana worse then some G13 event?
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  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Nirvana Arcane G15 only refines as G14 for HP... so go figure. Then by all means Nirvana Arcane is noly G14. lol Goes both ways really.

    Except it doesn't.

    From your picture that wiz gets +780 HP at +10

    G14 arcane gets +735HP at +10.
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  • mulanrouge
    mulanrouge Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    axt57 wrote: »
    Except it doesn't.

    From your picture that wiz gets +780 HP at +10

    G14 arcane gets +735HP at +10.

    i am not ingame, but i can assure you mine get +780 hp at +10 refinement (the boots and the helm)
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    axt57 wrote: »
    Except it doesn't.

    From your picture that wiz gets +780 HP at +10

    G14 arcane gets +735HP at +10.

    Alright, get a each of either the past helms or past boots and refine them so we can clear this up once and for all.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    mulanrouge wrote: »
    i am not ingame, but i can assure you mine get +780 hp at +10 refinement (the boots and the helm)

    Yes, because that helm and boots are not G14.

    I was talking about normal G14 arcane armour.
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Alright, get a each of either the past helms or past boots and refine them so we can clear this up once and for all.


    Yeah I'll get right on that.....
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    axt57 wrote: »
    Yes, because that helm and boots are not G14.

    I was talking about normal G14 arcane armour.

    So... where are you getting your information from? pwdatabase or private servers? >.>
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Neither; for that one I went to pwcalc. On there nirvana armour gets to +780HP at +10, as shown by your pics. But equip a G14 arcane and +10 it. The HP reading will be +735.

    However pwcalc is not correct on the heaverager boots - it thinks its a G14 item and refines it as a G14 item. I can, from refining my own heavenragers, confirm that that is wrong.
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    axt57 wrote: »
    Neither; for that one I went to pwcalc. On there nirvana armour gets to +780HP at +10, as shown by your pics. But equips a G14 arcane and +10 it. The HP reading will be +735.

    However pwcalc is not correct on the heaverager boots - it thinks its a G14 item and refines it as a G14 item. I can, from refining my own heavenragers, confirm that that is wrong.

    Interesting... I don't really consider both concrete though, they both contain lots of errors, and many of the calculations for damage or whatever are wrong as well.

    There certainly isn't a way to tell if the developers have mislabeled the grade of items or made certain items intentionally, but judging by items like event helm or boots, it seems that the items are probably not mislabeled. I'm sure we'll never get any official response as it really isn't all that important.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Still not convinced? Your wiz friend has G15 nirvana armour. At +10 she gets +780 HP on a piece.

    mulanrouge here has event boots and helmet. They claim that they are both at 780HP at +10.

    We know that the helm and boots are both labelled as "G14".

    Come on; they are mislabelled.
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