What's with the reliance on charms?

SinCityChick - Dreamweaver

Well, then let's leave it where it came from. Here it's called TT, and most people have NO clue what HH means anymore. Thanks!

giniuz

Sorry for double post, edit doesn t seems to work from here ^^

A tank who needs a charm to survive is a tank I don't want to squad with, because these are the tanks who seriously fail when something does go wrong.

I agree, if you read what I ve said, is that this insurance policy is mandatory for the safety of the pt.
Ofc you can jsut stay alive, tortlen and don't take aggro back when it messed up, but your job as a tank is not only to stay alive but to keep everyone else alive.

I didn't think it was so weird

And I don' t disagree with everyone, I agree with Garrand who said pretty much the same (2 first sentences) ^^

SinCityChick - Dreamweaver

So you agree with two sentences of a post? We can't pick and choose what we agree with. Say yes or no, no halfway point. As of right now, you disagree with the majority of people posting in this thread. You have presented your opinion, stick with it or change your mind. No wishy-washiness allowed.

And by the way, random question...why ARE you posting in these forums? Don't they have PW MS forums you can post/flame people in?

giniuz

SinCityChick - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So you agree with two sentences of a post? We can't pick and choose what we agree with. Say yes or no, no halfway point. As of right now, you disagree with the majority of people posting in this thread. You have presented your opinion, stick with it or change your mind. No wishy-washiness allowed.

And by the way, random question...why ARE you posting in these forums? Don't they have PW MS forums you can post/flame people in?

2 firsts sentences are a summary but the whole post is saying the same thing

As you said I presented my opinion and I am free to hear any valuable argument to prove me wrong b:surrender

On topic:
As I said, I think a charm is mandatory for TT 2.3, 3.3, RB delta if you do them entirely.
You can sometimes do it without but it s a gamble, and I think this is bad to gamble on the safety of the party.

If you think I'm wrong, give me arguments I may change my mind then b:surrender

SinCityChick - Dreamweaver

giniuz wrote: »

2 firsts sentences are a summary but the whole post is saying the same thing

As you said I presented my opinion and I am free to hear any valuable argument to prove me wrong b:surrender

On topic:
As I said, I think a charm is mandatory for TT 2.3, 3.3, RB delta if you do them entirely.
You can sometimes do it without but it s a gamble, and I think this is bad to gamble on the safety of the party.

If you think I'm wrong, give me arguments I may change my mind then b:surrender

Just think...had you phrased your FIRST post more like this, you would have upset MANY less people...try thinking before posting things that can be deemed as flaming others.

giniuz

I think you're right, was just a bit upset since these days some ppl tend to think that barbs are selfish and greedy when our main job is to try to keep everyone alive

A good barb is everyone's friend and I hate seing some of us damaging our reputation because of that.
I might have been a bit harsh, just wanted to make everyone noticing my post b:surrender

SinCityChick - Dreamweaver

Oh, we noticed it all right...

By the way, I can understand your crusade...I have a (retired) level 79 barb on DW, retired because of the expenses to keep him running. It kinda sucks playing on a barb, but it was what I picked, so I lived with it.

Anyway, you still haven't answered my question...why are you posting on these forums?

Samsoul - Lost City

I must admit I don't like the reliance on charms myself. I thought that charms were for PVP and PVE not required by the hands of a good cleric.

Truthfully though, I feel like the new classes were made to rely on charms. Take the psychic for example, mega mp eatage, huge mp costs. It's stupid.

Grats to you though, for being charmless for so long.

SilverCleric - Lost City

Ryoku_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Off Topic : sigh could you please stop calling it HH i bet you dont even know what HH stands for its called TT for a reason wanna know why? cause its Twilight Temple

On Topic : Most people if your going in a random group would prefer to have a barb charmed for 1 main reason "Oracle/Hyper Noobs" i mean i can make a barb hyper it up and not know what the hell i am doing. no pots but spamming fleshream or something makes a clerics job easier.

HH mean "Heavens Hall" witch is name of TT (Twilight Temple) on another version of PWI.

TT and HH are the same thing so if you hear someone saying doing HH 2-3 or something its the same thing as TT 2-3.

Just pointing that out to you. b:victory

giniuz

SinCityChick - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Anyway, you still haven't answered my question...why are you posting on these forums?

I ve been reading this forum for months to get more informations. The more point of vue, the more topics, the more information you get make you more knowledgeable in order to be a bit better in game b:victory
Besides, usually pwi got updates a few months before us, so I can start to read some feedback about it, helping me in getting a better idea about it

Then now that I got some experience (but still need more knowledge b:shocked), I ve decided to confrong my opinion with some others when talking about barbarians interesting topic, is it wrong ? b:surrender

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary

SilverCleric - Lost City wrote: »

HH mean "Heavens Hall" witch is name of TT (Twilight Temple) on another version of PWI.

its called HOLY Hall.

Samsoul - Lost City

LOLOL GET IT RIGHT.


sorry had to do it :X

SinCityChick - Dreamweaver

giniuz wrote: »

I ve been reading this forum for months to get more informations. The more point of vue, the more topics, the more information you get make you more knowledgeable in order to be a bit better in game b:victory
Besides, usually pwi got updates a few months before us, so I can start to read some feedback about it, helping me in getting a better idea about it

Then now that I got some experience (but still need more knowledge b:shocked), I ve decided to confrong my opinion with some others when talking about barbarians interesting topic, is it wrong ? b:surrender

Not wrong, just interesting. I was more wondering why you would be on here than accusing you of doing something wrong. You explained that, and I am satisfied. By the way, back on topic now...I played up to 79 on a barb using no charms except ones bought for me (happened twice, both for something that happened that ended with me dying) and the ones from the stash boxes (plus that tiny quest reward one at the beginning of the game).

giniuz

Actually I started using charm at 85+ for ancient belial soul gold mats in 2.3 for my GX and I ve seen the worst and the best during this time in pt, that's why I was arguing about that one.

I m obvisouly not talking about pk party or TW where I lose 75% of my charms and dolls >_<

By the way I ve not been in Warsong (donjeon lvl 100) yet since it's been released only a week ago on our serv but from what I've heard charms are needed (not tried yet tho..)

So at your level I haven't even put a charm on yet, since tw where restricted to 80+(in my guild at that time, and 90+ for catapullers) and I honstly think that it's not needed in most of the case but the one I talked about except if you re really rich and want to spend money but even in that case, imo, everyone can do whatever they want if they keep doing their job ^^
A barb will never be blamed if he got a charm when he shouldn t, but he should be when he's not wearing one when he needs it.

Safety of party = utmost priority

Szol - Harshlands

charm is for pvp purpose mainly ..
2-3 including belial can be done uncahrmed... no lvl 100 needed...
3-3 could be discussed , but as always, depends 0on ppls skill... u got nubs in suqd - ull waste charm , u run with ppl that got some exp , nocharm ****


and plz ppl stop bashing each other for some really stupid reasons, ig HH or TT... omg who cares, as long as all know what er are speaking about ...


and for all those complaining about MANA CHARMS --- get urself 15 tokens - change for 250 herb juanxiao - and relax ... covers mana , and is like 1/3 of the price of a charm ...

edit : same can be said for low hp classes . mainly robe, with event hp herbs.

Motoko - Raging Tide

Take lessons from Thanatos, Rawrgh. He does Ancient Evil uncharmed since lvl 93. 3-2 and 3-3 uncharmed (he makes me tank 7/9 the bosses -_-) and only uses 2 bronze charms per Delta, one during stage 3 and another at stage 9. My costs end up being higher than his most of the time >.<

SilverCleric - Lost City

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary wrote: »

its called HOLY Hall.

Thanks for that correction... b:sweat

Legendadry - Harshlands

why does rageing tide already ahve 10x and 9x when the server came out what 2-3months ago b:beatup cant you just cash shop ur mats?

Accel - Raging Tide

Legendadry - Harshlands wrote: »

why does raging tide already ahve 10x and 9x when the server came out what 2-3months ago b:beatup cant you just cash shop ur mats?

Actually it was 4 months + ago. And as to why there are 10x and 9x, Go ask why Hyper Exp Stones were introduced into this game b:cute.

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

Okay I haven't read every post here, but lemme input my two cents. Basically, no a barb does not have to be charmed and generally isn't for TT. For Belial (Last boss on TT 2-3), it's very possible uncharmed for the barb, but it can be a bit tough, so I always bring at least a silver HP charm w/ me.

Barbs 99% of the time aren't in need of a 2nd cleric for TT 2-3. My money-run used to be 2-3, and so I've run 50-75 TT 2-3s in the last few months. When I would make the squad, veno's were optional (As I can lure/tank), and either a 90+ cleric or 2 lvl 80+ clerics were "wanted". I say wanted instead of needed, as I only need one 80+ cleric to heal me while I tank every boss minus Belial, however I like dual clerics for better squad heal/if a cleric dies, don't have to run all the way back as we rush through mobs etc etc.

Seamuss - Heavens Tear

Charm required..hellz no. I wear one as a failsafe only.

Best example: tanking bh89 boss for friends,our single cleric (and another team member who needed boss for bh) died from a poor luring scenario. I was able to tank boss while cleric hp'ed and ran back,then rezzed other. No way could that happen w/o charm.

I know things go wrong for various reasons,say 'fail" squads or ppl ..or just random mistakes from good ppl,but a charm is an insurance policy.

I understand that too many ppl cry about ticks,but thats just rediculous and should never stress a cleric imo.

_Leiian_ - Heavens Tear

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

<.< this is why I don't do TTs with random people anymore and those people world chatting for an archer for AE...


- well back to the main topic - you don't need to be charmed for TTs. I've done 2-3 with just a cleric and uncharmed barb for wulord, if you really need the extra hp gain - just use hp foods/pots and genie heal. In fact, you can do astral without a barb to tank and have just one cleric bb. Anything a herc can tank, pretty much any class with 5k+ unbuffed hp can tank.

herc cant tank wurlord with noone interrupting his mag skill.(in squad mode, for sure)

anyway,
if a barb has a lot of hp (at 70 a good barb can have about 11k),and make his work good, no worries for cleric and squad...
uhmmm...
maybe the cleric was fail? ^^

when I run TTs with unknown barbs and clerics, the first thing I watch is hp of barb and mp of cleric.
One cleric with 3000hp and 6000mp at lvl 80 is a fail, useless cleric.
A barb with less than 12-13k hp in true form and hp buffed, at 80, is also a fail barb.
And sometimes a charm cant save u.
If cleric do his work, a barb can also duo with him all the run.

- @who called this poor barb "fail" cuz he calls TT HH:
if u dont know what means, go and learn. not call ppl fail. ^^ -

Amourie - Heavens Tear

I generally prefer tanks that don't use HP charms. I find it easier to heal when I don't have a charm to compete with because I have more HP to work with. Charmed players get pissed off every time their charm ticks (well, what's the use of a charm then?) and I'd rather not listen to people whine.

And for MP charms, I don't use them. Usually I can heal a tank without even using an MP pot unless the boss does massive damage or I'm BBing.

But hey, if people want to waste their money on charms, be my guest. I just don't like to hear people cry because it ticks

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

A barb with less than 12-13k hp in true form and hp buffed, at 80, is also a fail barb.

Ummm... what? Level 84, pure vit build, +3 gears with full flawless shards, +4 helm, +4 cape of tauran with immaculates, and I have 11.8khp.

My gear is better than any other non cashshopper in my level range on my server lol.

Sylredrae - Sanctuary

_Leiian_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

One cleric with 3000hp and 6000mp at lvl 80 is a fail, useless cleric.

So everytime you do TT you just check the barb and cleric's hp? I'd say check their skills and equips first. There are good clerics with 3000hp or less, and mp pool isn't anything to judge to be fail if they can heal well enough. It might come from having less points in mag, which results in lower magic attack, which means more spam healing to compensate which results in more pot usage on their part. If they can do their job despite having a smaller-than-average mp pool, so be it.

Rawrgh, as for barbs being charmed, I never expect a barb to be charmed in TT. A lot of barbs I've done TT with do it uncharmed, and we manage fairly well provided that no one does anything extremely stupid. If a barb has no charm, I heal him as usual and do my best to keep him alive. If he does have a charm, I heal him anyways and hope he doesn't whine if it ticks for whatever reason (barbs whining about their charms ticking annoy me to no end).

As a cleric, I only used a hp charm once because I got it from a tideborn quest when I was in my 50s. Burned it away in 3 days. b:sad

I've never touched a charm since, partly because I found them annoying (it ticked uselessly when I tried to grind), partly because I didn't want to become addicted to having them on all the time, partly because you can't take them off after you equip them and partly because I simply can't afford to buy them. I've never felt the need for one since I can survive reasonably well in instances thanks to good squadmates, common sense, healing skills, holy path, speed powders, physical/hp boosting ornaments and a crapload of hp pots accumulated from grinding. Since the tokens are on sale, mp food is cheap now. So I don't need an mp charm either. b:chuckle

I acknowledge that hp charms can come in handy for clerics, but the thing is that I don't really need them atm because I learned to survive in squads due to countless bad bhs.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

OP
barb and noone else needs charm for any tt
if u go first time to 3-2 or 3-3 u may take charm so you will feel bit safer while 'learning' bosses
but then just use genie, food or apo and for cleric sake let him heal u on max possible range always


and 'What's with the reliance on charms?' i dunno, dont use them - simply too expensive.

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear

NERCO!!!! b:shock

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

is not

shock

RainbowVidel - Sanctuary

What I can't stand is seeing barbs with a hp charm on then complaining that it ticked for whatever reason. Then why the heck did he even put it on for?? .....But that's a different topic for another day.

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver

charms can save archers lives >.>