Heavy Veno's?

AkitaChi - Sanctuary

Lately I have seen alot of Venomancer's running around in heavy armor and holding Axe's or some kind of weapon. I asked someone in my faction and he said they are called heavy Veno's. And are strong if you make them right. So, I wanted to come on here and ask how one goes about making one of those? Apparently they have to be decent since I have seen a level 100 one..

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

AkitaChi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lately I have seen alot of Venomancer's running around in heavy armor and holding Axe's or some kind of weapon. I asked someone in my faction and he said they are called heavy Veno's. And are strong if you make them right. So, I wanted to come on here and ask how one goes about making one of those? Apparently they have to be decent since I have seen a level 100 one..

Most Heavy Venos still use magic weapons, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to use axes, since you will do more damage in foxform with a magic weapon, and still be aloud to heal and use skills.

Most of the people with axes have a main weapon thats a magic weapon, and we just switch to axes to lulz with people. (Though there are a few that use Axes as main weapon and have little/no mag, but as I said before.. forform w/ magic weapon still has better dps then any axe build, so there truly is no reason to wear axes)

tweakz

Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Most Heavy Venos still use magic weapons, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to use axes, since you will do more damage in foxform with a magic weapon, and still be aloud to heal and use skills.

Healing doesn't require a weapon at all, and Fox Form doesn't increase melee dmg, just accuracy and pdef.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Healing doesn't require a weapon at all, and Fox Form doesn't increase melee dmg, just accuracy and pdef.

Pet heal is based in large part on your m.atk. So yeah you can heal, but it'll be pathetic (540 points at level 93)

Your melee mastery bonus kicks in when you're in fox form, which adds a considerable amount to your p.atk. About doubles it for arcanes, increases about 80% for heavy Sage, 60% for heavy Demon. If you have enough mag to wield a magic weapon close to your level, this is enough to make your damage with a magic weapon (in fox form) equal to or better than your damage with a melee weapon in human form.

It's only if you completely gimp your magic and dump those points into str where the melee weapons start to do more damage than magic weapons in fox form. And if you're going to do that, IMHO you might as well just reroll as a BM.

Kitsuneh - Lost City

you might as well just reroll as a BM.

I agree but bms dont have tails<3b:chuckle IF I ever get bored to my build, i restat myself to use bows..b:victory

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

HA to me is just a plea for attention to feel 'original.' why sacrifice almost all your stats just so you can have some pdef? any HA one ive ever fought dies in 1-3 hits on my old wizard. catch it off guard->seal->undine->sandstorm... bye bye HA veno.

sure they have the perk of herc like def and somewhat ok melee damage, but hell, its just not physically possible to keep defended against everything in this build to me. LA/vit racane/pure mag ftw

tweakz

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

HA to me is just a plea for attention to feel 'original.' why sacrifice almost all your stats just so you can have some pdef?

You sacrifice matk, patk, pet healing, mp, and mp recov for your vit arcane build. Putting others down and bragging yourself up constantly is just a confession of fail in denial.

any HA one ive ever fought dies in 1-3 hits on my old wizard. catch it off guard->seal->undine->sandstorm... bye bye HA veno.

Leave out how often you've fought them, how many different ones, how well they were equipped/ sharded, etc, and you can make this oh so valid point against any other class/ build.

sure they have the perk of herc like def and somewhat ok melee damage, but hell, its just not physically possible to keep defended against everything in this build to me. LA/vit racane/pure mag ftw

You can have herc like def in any build, and LA sacrifices a lot of stats.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

You sacrifice matk, patk, pet healing, mp, and mp recov for your vit arcane build

at a rate that is miniscule in damage comparison, making it superior in all defensive stats compared to your build.

Putting others down and bragging yourself up constantly is just a confession of fail in denial.

your refusal to accept this is hypocrisy and arrogance, mr. 'IM PURE MAG FOR PEAK EFFICIENCY'

Leave out how often you've fought them, how many different ones, how well they were equipped/ sharded, etc, and you can make this oh so valid point against any other class/ build.

theyre rare for a reason, the few who exist had ridiculous refines, and are still easy 1-2 shot for a wizard. theres pics all over the forum of average refine wizards doing 20k+ to huge unsuspecting HAs. you do not have this problem so much in robes.

You can have herc like def in any build

no, you cant, try again.

go troll elsewhere, you close minded pugilist.

tweakz

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

at a rate that is miniscule in damage comparison, making it superior in all defensive stats compared to your build.

99% of my play time is spent in my offensive gear: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=21c42c9cbaa68256 and def is rarely needed: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3230f1b0e9459390 -don't even use it for FF anymore. That "miniscule difference in dmg makes the difference between 2,3,4 hit kills (or greater than 1/4 of battle time being saved), when you can solo some bosses, and how often you waste time on transfuse/nature's grace/metabolic boost (dps). What you downplay as minuscule difference amounts to huge differences in gains.

your refusal to accept this is hypocrisy and arrogance, mr. 'IM PURE MAG FOR PEAK EFFICIENCY'

Am I addressing a child?

theyre rare for a reason, the few who exist had ridiculous refines, and are still easy 1-2 shot for a wizard.

The reason could be because HA lacks the healing of an arcane, and pawing away at mobs is rather uneventful.

theres pics all over the forum of average refine wizards doing 20k+ to huge unsuspecting HAs. you do not have this problem so much in robes.

Robes have similar vulnerability to phys classes. *insert rolling eyes here*

go troll elsewhere, you close minded pugilist.

WaffleChan is TearValerin = banned troll who started the trolling in this thread with "HA to me is just a plea for attention to feel 'original.'

im a mean poster, who sometimes posts mean things, get over it?

You left out misleading, condescending, waste of reading.

I don't blame trolls for trolling, or forum users sinking to lows. I blame the forum managers for allowing their forum to sink to such lows. Trolls like this are victims of their insecurities / emotions and those that allow them to carry on. -Well that or this trolls advice is profitable.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

99% of my play time is spent in my offensive gear: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=21c42c9cbaa68256 and def is rarely needed: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3230f1b0e9459390 -don't even use it for FF anymore. That "miniscule difference in dmg makes the difference between 2,3,4 hit kills (or greater than 1/4 of battle time being saved), when you can solo some bosses, and how often you waste time on transfuse/nature's grace/metabolic boost (dps). What you downplay as minuscule difference amounts to huge differences in gains.

your refusal to accept this is hypocrisy and arrogance, mr. 'IM PURE MAG FOR PEAK EFFICIENCY'

you just confirmed this point with the above.

The reason could be because HA lacks the healing of an arcane, and pawing away at mobs is rather uneventful.

this has what to do with the defenses of HA?

Robes have similar vulnerability to phys classes. *insert rolling eyes here*

no, they dont. there are some garnet robe classes that require a 3x spark and lucky crits to kill due to their ridiculous defenses. dont be so ignorant.

You left out misleading, condescending, waste of reading.

pot calling kettle black.

I don't blame trolls for trolling, or forum users sinking to lows. I blame the forum managers for allowing their forum to sink to such lows. Trolls like this are victims of their insecurities / emotions and those that allow them to carry on.

is that it? your insecurities leading you to pick fights over someone elses opinion? or is it you have a childish vendetta, and choose to exact your frustration in a direct approach. time and time again, you have been proven to have half truths and whole lies in your own past, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. fool.

Well that or this trolls advice is profitable.

hmm my advice column was stickied, whereas your 'why venos should have ranged pets' has yet to. id say due to the large number of views and large amount of compliment posts, its pretty informative.

YOU picked a fight
YOU are the troll
YOU are a hypocrit
and YOU will never win in these battles of wit because you always come unarmed, bearing a double standard as your only shield.

begone knave, i have no time for childish prattle with the likes of a curr such as you.

tweakz

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

hmm my advice column was stickied, whereas your 'why venos should have ranged pets' has yet to. id say due to the large number of views and large amount of compliment posts, its pretty informative.

It's profitable. PWI could be using you, or employing you.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

works for me.

Regenbogen - Lost City

*new challenger appears*

you tweakz and wafflechan...you guys are funny...as much as i read you both are very versatile players...

btw tweaks i was surprised when i saw someone else than me was wearing rank4 robe at 9X...b:chuckle

my current build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=cfe4355d48346602


back to topic:

the point in heavy armor is surviveability in GROUP/MASS PVP...
especially archer and bms fokus on attacking venos and clerics and wizards...
longer survive gets the archer/bm buisy with you so they cant attack others...

as for 1on1 any versatile player can defeat heavy armor veno...
archer got metal skills...
bms dragon-genieskill you...

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

hes a decent dude when he isnt picking fights.

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Healing doesn't require a weapon at all, and Fox Form doesn't increase melee dmg, just accuracy and pdef.

As Solandri said,the pet heal would be terrible. Also you'd have to remove the axes to heal regardless(which is why I said you cant heal with axes, because.. you cant) and FF has melee mastery, which helps substantially.

@Solandri saying high str axes would start to pull ahead, a magic weapon weilding veno could still invest in some Str too(I have ~80 points in vit, that could be readjusted) which I think could end up helping balance it or even push it ahead, not to mention all the other benefits you get with the use of magic weapons.

@Others Anyone can win in pvp who catches the other off guard, I lol'd. Also there are a lot of fail ones, who are just doing it to be 'different'. It's been getting more and more popular of a build, and when that starts happening you notice more people playign them poorly. (dont even have to discuss the insane amount of failure venos who arent heavy) There are the few who play it well, mind you.

ExtraTwisted - Dreamweaver

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

any HA one ive ever fought dies in 1-3 hits on my old wizard. catch it off guard->seal->undine->sandstorm... bye bye HA veno.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that enough to kill most people? Element of surprise, checkmating combo, if they don't have absolute domain how would they survive? Unless they were a extreme cashshopper.

Waiting on your reply since I maybe able to add one more trick to my anti-wiz arsenal b:victory

If I were to catch a wiz off guard debuff, amp and myriad for a magic break *Since this is the perfect situation, like yours* would they not be in trouble as well?

Since, you know, I don't have to STAY in fox form lol.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

theres numerous ways to avoid annoying pets, i.e like an ult is usually enough to kill a pet, ridding of the need for worry about bleed/extra stuns. shrink is wonderful to spread some distance, giving a chance to seal or put stone barrier back on.

fortify, or those invincibility potions work wonders, and if all else fails, spark! nothing like dropping a **** in 1 hit

ExtraTwisted - Dreamweaver

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

theres numerous ways to avoid annoying pets, i.e like an ult is usually enough to kill a pet, ridding of the need for worry about bleed/extra stuns. shrink is wonderful to spread some distance, giving a chance to seal or put stone barrier back on.

fortify, or those invincibility potions work wonders, and if all else fails, spark! nothing like dropping a **** in 1 hit

If I ambushed you how will you have time to do any of this?

In this scenario I've snuck up on you, purged, maybe you noticed, nix comes in stuns before you can react because you're busy with someone else then I proceed to amplify nix puts a bleed I switch out of fox and begin to stun and cast spells myself, say you do distance shrink away, I'm still not out of the picture lol.

Speaking of apothecary, 25k magic resistance and 50% reduced magic damage anyone?

axt57

I love it when wizards get distracted by my pet for even a single spell. Means one dead wizard coming up.

Archers even more so.

Serinregis - Lost City

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

HA to me is just a plea for attention to feel 'original.' why sacrifice almost all your stats just so you can have some pdef? any HA one ive ever fought dies in 1-3 hits on my old wizard. catch it off guard->seal->undine->sandstorm... bye bye HA veno.

sure they have the perk of herc like def and somewhat ok melee damage, but hell, its just not physically possible to keep defended against everything in this build to me. LA/vit racane/pure mag ftw

Well, I dunno why other venos would choose HA (besides tweakz, since i read your arguments just now), but I'll tell you why I'm going HA in a non-mathematical way.

Venos have the weakest magic in the game, but the most (?) number of debuffs. So IMHO, venos are not there to deal dmg, but to debuff and annoy/irritate/weaken the enemy in some way while pet/real DD takes the kill. So there is really no harm in gimping my magic a little (small dmg ~> small dmg woohoo).

And as for resistances, most venos do not go all heavy/pdef build, most switch around HA/AA according to situation. And it is not as if we are limited to a certain kind of ornament, we can use elemental def ornaments too. And the extra hp from stats and refines can increase my survivability, so i can annoy/irritate more.

SupaRoyalty - Lost City

Serinregis - Lost City wrote: »

Well, I dunno why other venos would choose HA (besides tweakz, since i read your arguments just now), but I'll tell you why I'm going HA in a non-mathematical way.

Venos have the weakest magic in the game, but the most (?) number of debuffs. So IMHO, venos are not there to deal dmg, but to debuff and annoy/irritate/weaken the enemy in some way while pet/real DD takes the kill. So there is really no harm in gimping my magic a little (small dmg ~> small dmg woohoo).

And as for resistances, most venos do not go all heavy/pdef build, most switch around HA/AA according to situation. And it is not as if we are limited to a certain kind of ornament, we can use elemental def ornaments too. And the extra hp from stats and refines can increase my survivability, so i can annoy/irritate more.

But at level 100 the nix is worthless I heard. So what are you gonna do then? ... 1 spark.. nix dies.. then what?

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

AkitaChi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lately I have seen alot of Venomancer's running around in heavy armor and holding Axe's or some kind of weapon. I asked someone in my faction and he said they are called heavy Veno's. And are strong if you make them right. So, I wanted to come on here and ask how one goes about making one of those? Apparently they have to be decent since I have seen a level 100 one..

Axe-wielding Veno is not easy and you have to spread stats. Magic will be weaker, but if you truly want to know hit me up a pm. Notice that this is Pure Heavy which means built like an axe bm with additional magic given not HA/AA.

tweakz

Serinregis - Lost City wrote: »

Well, I dunno why other venos would choose HA (besides tweakz, since i read your arguments just now), but I'll tell you why I'm going HA in a non-mathematical way.

HA isn't my style. I just see it as a viable alternative.

Venos have the weakest magic in the game, but the most (?) number of debuffs. So IMHO, venos are not there to deal dmg, but to debuff and annoy/irritate/weaken the enemy in some way while pet/real DD takes the kill. So there is really no harm in gimping my magic a little (small dmg ~> small dmg woohoo).

Our magic can't be that bad when I'm stealing aggro from same level wizzies. -Surprised my BH squad when I took aggro and tanked Linus yesterday. I think we're better equipped for pure mag in PvE than other classes, and we are very capable of out DD'ing our Nixes even. Debuffing is great, but not always practical.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

i can safely say the wizard was effectively holding back to NOT steal aggro, as silly anecdotes are hardly evidence. wizard's spell modifiers, and m.atk per mag compared to venos makes our spells look like jokes. this is why a wizard can do this:

http://img504.yfrog.com/img504/9391/guru1shot.jpg
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=350rqew&s=5

among other ridiculous amounts of high damage. venos do have the weakest mag attack.

axt57

Hit a lvl99 BM for 13k sparked ironwood crit, with neither of us buffed or amped... and my NP is still +3.

I wouldn't call veno magic a joke.

That wiz in those pics is sage sparked; 11k crit on a (probably amp'd and debuffed) barb is nothing impressive, even with a TT80 weapon.

tweakz

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

i can safely say the wizard was effectively holding back to NOT steal aggro, as silly anecdotes are hardly evidence. wizard's spell modifiers, and m.atk per mag compared to venos makes our spells look like jokes. this is why a wizard can do this:

http://img504.yfrog.com/img504/9391/guru1shot.jpg
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=350rqew&s=5

among other ridiculous amounts of high damage. venos do have the weakest mag attack.

What spell modifiers? -clarify.

Glorious images of Jesus don't prove divinity, and wizard worship likewise requires blind faith.

My build on a wiz, matk:
7832-8990
My build on veno, matk:
7583-8741
My build with 100mag reallocated to vit on a veno (vit arcane):
6373-7346
The kicker: My build with weapon refined from +5 to +6:
7833-8991

Check yourself:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f560833e47739f54
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=21c42c9cbaa68256
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=637e1386607e1779
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=6bc4ef5aa61294bb

Should I dig up the post where you trivialized the difference in matk between vit and pure mag veno?

axt57 wrote: »

Hit a lvl99 BM for 13k sparked ironwood crit, with neither of us buffed or amped... and my NP is still +3.

I wouldn't call veno magic a joke.

That wiz in those pics is sage sparked; 11k crit on a (probably amp'd and debuffed) barb is nothing impressive, even with a TT80 weapon.

I think I see an matk buff, but no amp, and only one buff on barb. Use of Atk charms I don't think show up in images. I fail to see why the image is being used.

axt57

People lose their debuffs/buffs when they die - but foxform and true form are not lost; hence the barb having only one buff - true form (surely you must know this by lvl99).

That m.atk buff is from sage spark - that bless icon (take 25% less dmg) is from sage spark.

Apparently a sage sparked wiz hitting 11k on a barb is now considered high damage.

kenlee

axt57 wrote: »

Hit a lvl99 BM for 13k sparked ironwood crit, with neither of us buffed or amped... and my NP is still +3.

I wouldn't call veno magic a joke.

That wiz in those pics is sage sparked; 11k crit on a (probably amp'd and debuffed) barb is nothing impressive, even with a TT80 weapon.

that wizard is nothing impresive but lvl 100 with TT100 or r8 are scarry. they can hit same lvls heavy up to 5 times their enemies hp. thats alot less than 1 shot.

well, i dont want to advertise other servers but anyway ours will get there in a couple of years. nix is 1 shot from any other class well geared and nix does 100ish damage to the others. nix cant be refined so pet is almost useless. wizards for example use spells too but they have better damage on spells and their damage increase from weapon is up to 500% iirc. the better gear on the other classes will only increase the gap between venos and the others. venos are the most underpowered class in the real end game and i dont think anyone can argue about this even at the state of our servers.
sure, you can have some fun now and then... at 70 or 90 or even 100 but for how long? i already see a few players on each of our servers with very good gear and im pretty sure they can destroy any well geared venos around.

axt57

Well you can take it from a well geared LA veno; you're wrong.

Hhlolz - Harshlands

Wizards are way too weak, the only thing they can do is 1 shot nix, with +10 weap that is.
if you are arcane build they just hit way too low.

About hybrid HA build, it is the best build for veno, lol @ the person saying that Hybrid HA veno has low mdef, its still 5-6k unbuffed, metal attacks from archer wont hurt that much.

oh and, LA is a joke for those who didnt want to believe.

Serinregis - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

HA isn't my style. I just see it as a viable alternative.

I see b:laugh

axt57 wrote: »

Hit a lvl99 BM for 13k sparked ironwood crit, with neither of us buffed or amped... and my NP is still +3.

I wouldn't call veno magic a joke.

That wiz in those pics is sage sparked; 11k crit on a (probably amp'd and debuffed) barb is nothing impressive, even with a TT80 weapon.

well ironwood is based heavily off of weapon dmg, 300% of it, and to add on to that, NP pwns b:shocked, even at lower refines, it's a great weapon.

SupaRoyalty - Lost City wrote: »

But at level 100 the nix is worthless I heard. So what are you gonna do then? ... 1 spark.. nix dies.. then what?

Again, we are made for crazy debuffing, demon ironwood/myriad rainbow to take opponents physical defense down to 0, nix will still **** (maybe not against super high hp characters, o.o this is all theory though of course). (Hai Supa b:chuckle)