Make Siren Kiss a continuous skill

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

So, let's make sure I completly understand.

You want to make up for your lower DD powers by opening a zhen skil while solo grinding? You know, there are other, better ways to commit suicide. Like poking sword tamer

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Sorry, siren's kiss is an AOE freeze attack skill... making it a continuous skill will make siren's kiss overpowered. You don't see wizards or archers have AOEs with effects as continuous skills.

razor feathers maybe nice for clerics as a continuous skill. Because it got no effects on it like freeze or knockback or whatever effects. I would support that idea for razor feathers, but not siren's kiss.

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

Continuous HF please b:dirty

SilverCleric - Lost City

This makes me question is Siren's Kiss even worth lvling?

Is it useful at all?

In PvP or PvE?

Yulk - Heavens Tear

SilverCleric - Lost City wrote: »

This makes me question is Siren's Kiss even worth lvling?

Is it useful at all?

In PvP or PvE?

dude, you failed to realize how this skill can help you, freeze = blessing for squishy. AOE freeze can work with knockback. Never judge a book by its cover. b:bye

Hazumu - Dreamweaver

VILKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

o.O I'm curious as to how u're able to equip gear... Unless u have the +45 str tome...

Sorry I didn't have my profile up, I meant 5 dexterity, minimum str and 300+ magic. If you seriously thought I had 5 strength, it just proves you're not thinking things straight.

VILKASS wrote:

My comment was merely a retort directed at you mentioning that everyone who claims cleric are not underpowered are those that don't play clerics as mains. Further doesn't matter what lvl your friends are, the fact is you are merely a middle lvl player who doesn't even have access to +89 skills. Doesn't matter how long you played, you still lack the experience of those.

You preach fine, but it's funny how self contradictionary that whole paragraph is. You say that I can't judge people by how much they play their class and yet you judge me for not having high enough lvl.

Contradict much?

The word "main" does not necessarily mean your highest lvled character. Someone may very well play a class to 90+ and then ditch it for another class and use it as a main and then it takes quite a while before the main catches up with the alt. "Main" is only the character you play most with at the current time, not the highest lvl.

VILKASS wrote:

o.o Clerics barely spend charms in rbs... I would know being one...

If you're suggesting that clerics don't need charms... I can hardly do nothing but laugh.

VILKASS wrote:

Crit lol? Op gear? Blade tempest? Barbs get 1 shot by wizes. I'm not quite sure what u're trying to point out.


Yes ofcourse u're "****"ed, since you're the one who says lvling plume shell is useless, no wonder you get "****"ed by melees. + If any AA gets jumped by surprise & stunlocked they are most likely b:fatb ed. You have proved nothing again.
Lol... b:bye Omg QQ niXes heurt. That's news

You just answered your own question, that's exactly my point. And I would absolutely LOVE if you could point out where I mentioned that lvling plume shell is useless. I sure as hell don't remember saying that, ever. Mine is lvl 9, or 10 (Can't remember) and use it constantly in pvp. Please point out where I said that it was useless.

VILKASS wrote:

I was being sarcastic towards your comment on not lvling plume shell...

And honestly, that's the only thing I've seen you to be successful as here... being sarcastic. Hardly helpful, or constructive.

VILKASS wrote:

I seriously duno what to say except learn to play the class or reroll into a DD if you want to do tons of damage & 1 shoot everyone half the time.

If you don't know what to say, then maybe it's better not to say anything at all. I never said I was an awesome, or the greatest cleric ever, but it would seem like I'm not completely horrible at being one either, seeing as to how I just got an FC run completed (Without a 2nd cleric) without any major hitches at all. If I was such a huge fail, surely I shouldn't be able to do that, especially since I'm such a weak low lvl, right?

You ASSUME that I want clerics to be OP like veno with nix. You ASSUME that I can't handle my class and you ASSUME that I rolled my cleric last week and whoracled my way. Well quess what, your assumptions may not actually be always 100% correct. I've been playing for over a year now and know ins and outs of my character pretty darn well. I have +2 refinement minimum on every piece of gear, which is mainly legendary of my own lvl and have sharded them with garnets and citrines of lvl 6, or higher. I've been playing this game long enough to know that clerics have a natural tendency to be weaker when opposing any other class in pvp. That is something I call to be under powered. Yes, once again, I know there are kick **** clerics that can own pretty much everything, yes, I know clerics can be very tough and hard. Hell, I beat an 82 BM once bit earlier. Mind you he spanked me 3 times in a row afterwards...

This doesn't change the fact that clerics have a natural tendency to be weaker in pvp than any other class out there. This problem is at its biggest between lvls 1 - 90, which sort of is, well, MAJORITY OF THE GAME.

Yulk wrote:

I would support that idea for razor feathers, but not siren's kiss.

Razor Feathers is continuous... you cast it, wait for cooldown and cast it again, the way Sirens Kiss should be honestly.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

Hazumu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you're suggesting that clerics don't need charms... I can hardly do nothing but laugh.

I'll say it. Clerics don't NEED charms.

HP charms make life easier and can save your butt if you get sloppy, sure. But you don't HAVE to have them.

MP charms are a waste. A proper mix of npc pots, apoth pots and event pots do just fine and will cost much less in the long run.

SilverCleric - Lost City

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

dude, you failed to realize how this skill can help you, freeze = blessing for squishy. AOE freeze can work with knockback. Never judge a book by its cover. b:bye

Dude, seriously you don't know how to play as a cleric so you can't judge of if the skill is good or not.


I'm just asking if it has a real use. Since most people say that its useless..

But I have second thoughts on that skill and I was just wondering if its worth lvling.

Is was thinking the same thing that you was thinking "Don't judge a book by its cover".

Besides I was looking for a answer from a cleric that have enough time to use this skill to its full potential, not you. b:scorn

Hazumu - Dreamweaver

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'll say it. Clerics don't NEED charms.

HP charms make life easier and can save your butt if you get sloppy, sure. But you don't HAVE to have them.

MP charms are a waste. A proper mix of npc pots, apoth pots and event pots do just fine and will cost much less in the long run.

Aye, you're right on that... but they are needed for FC at least. It is hell without. Learned that first hand. b:surrender

I am a living proof that a cleric can be good without charm, never bought one with real money. But there are still instances where they are VEEEEERY helpful.

Ussichu - Sanctuary

hello 6 cleric delta

VILKASS - Sanctuary

If you're suggesting that clerics don't need charms... I can hardly do nothing but laugh.

Hazumu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I am a living proof that a cleric can be good without charm, never bought one with real money. .

b:bye
Stop contradicting yourself

Lol useless & getting of topic.

_xXRoXaSXx_ - Heavens Tear

okay seriously? clerics are NOT underpowered, as i , being a cleric would know.

yeah i know plume shell takes a lot of your mp, but have you ever heard of the event pots?

the lvl 25 Seasames cost around 1.9k minimum in HT as far as i know, and when your high enough to use the lvl 75 event pots (which by the way is cheaper) you'll be able to use RB, BB and Plume shell while maintaining your mp without charms

On Topic: Sirens Kiss, as for my own opinion, is used as a kiting skill for me.

i usually use it if im being chased by multiple mobs and i need something to slow em down, since cyclone is only single target, its the only cleric skill that coud stall multiple mobs/pkers at once to at least get away or get a shot in.this probably ain't what its used for but it works for me

Off Topic:
back to my Clerics-are-not-underpowered statement, you gotta learn your class as much as learing another, Plume Shot, being both Phsyical and Magical, do a lot when combined with dimensional seal to deal a number on maybe a veno,wizzy ( if they don't stun + BT on you) and a psycic. Blademasters have a somewhat decent defense against magic by using the Alter Marrow Magical skill so only thing you can do to hurt em decently is either using cyclone and Wield Thunder. I do have to check wether Plume Shots Damge increases when using either Alter Marrow due to its Phsyical/Magical Attack

I would advise not to use Tempest but to Double Spark instead. you gotta time your sparks in certain situations like when the melee class your fighing sparks, when they are done doing that flashy burst thingy ( can't find the right word) you can either use sleep on them to shorten their chance of spark-hitting you or sparking right after the flashy thing ends so you resist at least a few seconds of their attacks.

as for barbs, the only thing helping them with your magic attacks is their hp, Regular Form Stun and the true form cast canceler ( which BTW, needs great timing). don't be afraid to
use Cyclone or Wield Thunder but Plume shot's damage will be decreased due to its Phsyical/Magical Damage.

for archers, Plume shell and get right up to their face.they are LA so Plume Shot would do a bit more damage than when use on HA, when they use Plume Shell, this is the oppurtunity to stack IH on yourself or try your best to maintain your hp and make their shield reach its limit.if they use WoG, this is probably a healing oppurtunity also. cyclone and sleep is a must if they plan to kite you.

Hazumu - Dreamweaver

VILKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:bye
Stop contradicting yourself

Lol useless & getting of topic.

Charms are still necessary for some events. What I said was that charms ain't necessary to be able to play. These are completely different things and not contradictionary in the slightest.

Again, learn to read and think before you write.

@_xXRoXaSXx_ -
Plume Shot is 100% physical and not magical at all. Don't use Plume Shot against HA, ever.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

If Siren's Kiss is soooooooo underpowered here's a tip... DON'T...USE...IT.

I'ts that simple. I get by fine without that skill, it's not even on my function bar! Clerics aren't meant to DD so I'd have to agree with some of the posts, Siren's Kiss is fine as it is and shouldn't become a continuous AoE. There, we're back on topic.

Hazumu - Dreamweaver

Zan, I don't use it. Since it's not any good. lol Which is exactly the point, it's not that good and clerics that use it are rare, because it's simply not good enough.

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

Hazumu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Zan, I don't use it. Since it's not any good. lol Which is exactly the point, it's not that good and clerics that use it are rare, because it's simply not good enough.

OMG, crown of flame is a useless skil, so noone's using it.
Make it OP so people start using it b:angry

Yulk - Heavens Tear

SilverCleric - Lost City wrote: »

Dude, seriously you don't know how to play as a cleric so you can't judge of if the skill is good or not.


I'm just asking if it has a real use. Since most people say that its useless..

But I have second thoughts on that skill and I was just wondering if its worth lvling.

Is was thinking the same thing that you was thinking "Don't judge a book by its cover".

Besides I was looking for a answer from a cleric that have enough time to use this skill to its full potential, not you. b:scorn

Oh really silvercleric??? Read and weep to this cleric's post from my reply

_xXRoXaSXx_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

okay seriously? clerics are NOT underpowered, as i , being a cleric would know.

yeah i know plume shell takes a lot of your mp, but have you ever heard of the event pots?

the lvl 25 Seasames cost around 1.9k minimum in HT as far as i know, and when your high enough to use the lvl 75 event pots (which by the way is cheaper) you'll be able to use RB, BB and Plume shell while maintaining your mp without charms

On Topic: Sirens Kiss, as for my own opinion, is used as a kiting skill for me.

i usually use it if im being chased by multiple mobs and i need something to slow em down, since cyclone is only single target, its the only cleric skill that coud stall multiple mobs/pkers at once to at least get away or get a shot in.this probably ain't what its used for but it works for me

Off Topic:
back to my Clerics-are-not-underpowered statement, you gotta learn your class as much as learing another, Plume Shot, being both Phsyical and Magical, do a lot when combined with dimensional seal to deal a number on maybe a veno,wizzy ( if they don't stun + BT on you) and a psycic. Blademasters have a somewhat decent defense against magic by using the Alter Marrow Magical skill so only thing you can do to hurt em decently is either using cyclone and Wield Thunder. I do have to check wether Plume Shots Damge increases when using either Alter Marrow due to its Phsyical/Magical Attack

I would advise not to use Tempest but to Double Spark instead. you gotta time your sparks in certain situations like when the melee class your fighing sparks, when they are done doing that flashy burst thingy ( can't find the right word) you can either use sleep on them to shorten their chance of spark-hitting you or sparking right after the flashy thing ends so you resist at least a few seconds of their attacks.

as for barbs, the only thing helping them with your magic attacks is their hp, Regular Form Stun and the true form cast canceler ( which BTW, needs great timing). don't be afraid to
use Cyclone or Wield Thunder but Plume shot's damage will be decreased due to its Phsyical/Magical Damage.

for archers, Plume shell and get right up to their face.they are LA so Plume Shot would do a bit more damage than when use on HA, when they use Plume Shell, this is the oppurtunity to stack IH on yourself or try your best to maintain your hp and make their shield reach its limit.if they use WoG, this is probably a healing oppurtunity also. cyclone and sleep is a must if they plan to kite you.

Its a kiting skill... Therefore it is far from useless... I also agree and he is using his cleric nicely


@ Sirrobert, lol xD I know your being sarcastic... its a really really good wiz skill for really quick cast while kiting. But yeah, some people have no idea how good of a skill can be

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

So um... I would love to know how a skill that can AoE freeze everything within its range is underpowered. Just because you don't use it as often as your staple skills does not mean it's underpowered. Maybe if you people learned to play a Cleric rather than sitting on your **** posting about why we're underpowered you'd figure out we're actually pretty damn strong.

Oh since we're calling things underpowered... Chromatic Seal is underpowered because it doesn't cause damage, nor does it always last for the max amount of time. Discussb:thanks

Hazumu - Dreamweaver

Zan, you should know that the range it has is very, very low range. If you're getting ganked by multiple mobs, or people there's pretty much a 100% chance that you won't freeze even half of them. Especially when it has a chance not to freeze those it hits either.

There's a big gap between making a skill worth it and making a skill OP.

Clerics are hellova strong in endgame, yes, that's still only a fraction of the whole playtime.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Hazumu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Zan, you should know that the range it has is very, very low range. If you're getting ganked by multiple mobs, or people there's pretty much a 100% chance that you won't freeze even half of them. Especially when it has a chance not to freeze those it hits either.

There's a big gap between making a skill worth it and making a skill OP.

Clerics are hellova strong in endgame, yes, that's still only a fraction of the whole playtime.

Endgame is where you will spend majority of your time, unless you quit the second you hit 90. Siren's Kiss is good enough as is. It's able to freeze some or all of the mobs within its range which allows you to make a quick exit. It's not the best skill out there, but there's not need to revamp it. The spark consumption is a fair price for the AoE freeze, even if the damage output isn't as good as some of us would like.

There's almost a 100% chance you won't freeze them? Please tell me where you got that statistic. Until you can do that I'll consider it to be what it is, something made up out of thin air. And... come to think of it there should be absolutely NO reason you're getting attacked by multiple melee mobs, unless you're just playing around your you for some reason went afk in the middle of a lot of them. That or your kiting ability sucks and you don't pay attention to the map.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you don't like the skill or can't find a use for it, then don't use it. It's not even on my function bar because I never needed to use it in my lower levels, and because of that I learned to live without it.

The short version.... Siren's Kiss is fine, don't modify it. Kthxbaib:bye

Hazumu - Dreamweaver

Zan, you misread what I said, or decided to just twist what I said for somereason knowingly.

Hazumu wrote:

there's pretty much a 100% chance that you won't freeze even half of them.

What that means that in the case of multiple opponents, (3, or more) there is a VERY high propability that you freeze only 1, or two of them, in which case you are still possibly in big doodoo depending how many opponents there are. I didn't say there was a 100% chance not to freeze anything, but 100% (Obviously slightly exaggarated) chance that you won't freeze EVERYONE of them.

Zan wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you don't like the skill or can't find a use for it, then don't use it.

In a similar fashion I could say, if you don't like the suggestion, then don't read it. It's not really helpful, or constructive.

The short version... slightly modifying Sirens Kiss would enable it to be highly useful skill while still remaining the relative cleric strength vs other classes.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Hazumu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Zan, you misread what I said, or decided to just twist what I said for somereason knowingly.



What that means that in the case of multiple opponents, (3, or more) there is a VERY high propability that you freeze only 1, or two of them, in which case you are still possibly in big doodoo depending how many opponents there are. I didn't say there was a 100% chance not to freeze anything, but 100% (Obviously slightly exaggarated) chance that you won't freeze EVERYONE of them.



In a similar fashion I could say, if you don't like the suggestion, then don't read it. It's not really helpful, or constructive.

The short version... slightly modifying Sirens Kiss would enable it to be highly useful skill while still remaining the relative cleric strength vs other classes.

Yes, there's a chance you won't freeze all of them just like there's a chance you'll freeze every last one of them. As long as you freeze one of them Siren's Kiss has done its job. If you're not able to survive a melee gank for at least the duration of Plume Shell then Siren's Kiss not freezing is the least of your problems. Any decent Cleric can last against melee classes with Shell up, and if nothing else get to a safe distance.

As for you comment about me not reading this thread... It's not that I don't like the idea of improving one of our skills, it's just that it isn't really needed.

Hazumu - Dreamweaver

In order to freeze all of them you'd have to wait for all of them to get in range, but at that point you're already recieving a lot of damage and in case they are live people and not mobs, there's a high chance you're stunned, or frozen.

Basically that only works against mobs in the fashion that you stated Zan.

Editing Sirens Kiss isn't necessary in terms of being able to play the game, or in terms to be strong in end game. But altering something in the clerics arsenal is necessary to balance them in lvls between 1 - 90 when in pvp.

Saying that I just want to be OP is not logical since I'm 85, almost over the limit that I state clerics to be weaker against other classes. This suggestion wouldn't help me much at all.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Hazumu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In order to freeze all of them you'd have to wait for all of them to get in range, but at that point you're already recieving a lot of damage and in case they are live people and not mobs, there's a high chance you're stunned, or frozen.

Basically that only works against mobs in the fashion that you stated Zan.

Editing Sirens Kiss isn't necessary in terms of being able to play the game, or in terms to be strong in end game. But altering something in the clerics arsenal is necessary to balance them in lvls between 1 - 90 when in pvp.

Saying that I just want to be OP is not logical since I'm 85, almost over the limit that I state clerics to be weaker against other classes. This suggestion wouldn't help me much at all.

"In order to freeze all of them you'd have to wait for all of them to get in range."

Yes... That's the only time you'd need to use Siren's Kiss, but what you're saying in your post suggests multiple melee classes won't be attacking you at the same time which leads the the question... why would you use Siren's Kiss instead of Plume Shell and flying away? I'll repeat this, Siren's Kiss is only useful on a group of melee classes/mobs. Of course they have to be on you at the same time. Using it at any other time is a waste of a spark.

Clerics are already balanced. The six original classes (excluding Venomancers using a Phoenix) are totally balanced, it's mainly a matter of skill that determines a win or loss. It's useless to change Siren's Kiss because in PvP/PvE there are far better things to spend your chi on, even if Siren's Kiss were to be upgraded.

Siren's Kiss is a situational skill, it works as it should and does not need to be changed. Stop complaining about what isn't broken.

Hazumu - Dreamweaver

I was discussing about the scenario where you presented Sirens Kiss to be useful and as you stated yourself, there are better ways to deal with the situations where Sirens Kiss would have its use. That is one of my points to begin with.

Yes, there are better skills to use a spark on than Sirens Kiss, which sort of was the point to begin with. I have however found a situation where Sirens Kiss is useful. That's FC with 2 clerics, while 1 BB's, the other can AOE the incoming mobs with others. But everyone can see that that is a rather limited use.

zan wrote:

Clerics are already balanced. The six original classes (excluding Venomancers using a Phoenix) are totally balanced, it's mainly a matter of skill that determines a win or loss. It's useless to change Siren's Kiss because in PvP/PvE there are far better things to spend your chi on, even if Siren's Kiss were to be upgraded.

Being good as a cleric means really knowing every aspect of your class and exploiting 100% of the potential you have. The limit for error is much smaller than with other classes (Based on my own personal experience). You cast your skill in slightly wrong order and you're propably dead. Is it really like this with other classes as well when they face a cleric?

I also find it bit peculiar that you think that I think clerics to be 'broken'. I certainly don't see it that way. The way I see it is that in pvp, if you're not 89+, you're propably gonna lose in pvp unless the opponent makes a critical mistake.

Improving clerics in lvl range of 1- 90 would not help me personally at all, since I'm already almost 86 and don't even like to pvp personally. I just happen to think that clerics are underhanded in pvp based on my own personal experience. It takes a lot more convincing facts to make me change my opinion about the issue.

Fruitluips - Lost City

Hazumu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I just happen to think that clerics are underhanded in pvp based on my own personal experience.

Well based on the experience of pretty much every other cleric in this topic, including me, they are far from "underhanded"

As far as Siren's Kiss goes, I don't really see anything wrong with it. It's a nice trump card for when you have more than one mob on you, and it's one more metal attack at your disposal when engaged in close combat PVP. It's also got a decent channel time. The freeze effect goes off more often than not in PVE for me, but I never use it for the effect. The damage takes a while to catch up to level 10 whirlwind, but, like others said, don't use it if you don't like it.

Did you maybe use oracles to get to your level? That's a serious question; I think it would explain your opinions

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Hazumu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Being good as a cleric means really knowing every aspect of your class and exploiting 100% of the potential you have. The limit for error is much smaller than with other classes (Based on my own personal experience). You cast your skill in slightly wrong order and you're propably dead. Is it really like this with other classes as well when they face a cleric?

I also find it bit peculiar that you think that I think clerics to be 'broken'. I certainly don't see it that way. The way I see it is that in pvp, if you're not 89+, you're propably gonna lose in pvp unless the opponent makes a critical mistake.

Improving clerics in lvl range of 1- 90 would not help me personally at all, since I'm already almost 86 and don't even like to pvp personally. I just happen to think that clerics are underhanded in pvp based on my own personal experience. It takes a lot more convincing facts to make me change my opinion about the issue.

You think Clerics can't PvP on equal footing with other classes, which means you really have no clue how to play the class. I've been pking since my 70s, I've learned how to deal with different situations, and believe me if you can't win a fight because of making one small mistake, then powering up Siren's Kiss will not help you. One skill can't make you better at PvP/PvE, the only thing I can tell you is to learn your class instead of complaining about one skill that's not as useful as all of the others. Every class has skills like that, deal with it.


So once again, I'm going to say this. Siren's Kiss is fine the way it is, it's a situational skill and works as it should. There is no need to modify it.

VILKASS - Sanctuary

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You think Clerics can't PvP on equal footing with other classes, which means you really have no clue how to play the class. I've been pking since my 70s, I've learned how to deal with different situations, and believe me if you can't win a fight because of making one small mistake, then powering up Siren's Kiss will not help you. One skill can't make you better at PvP/PvE, the only thing I can tell you is to learn your class instead of complaining about one skill that's not as useful as all of the others. Every class has skills like that, deal with it.


So once again, I'm going to say this. Siren's Kiss is fine the way it is, it's a situational skill and works as it should. There is no need to modify it.

I think she doesnt mean making stronger Siren's in particular, but just pointed out it as an "unuseful" skill, & that overall clerics are underpoweredQQ & make this skills/or other stronger to "balance" it out.

Did you maybe use oracles to get to your level? That's a serious question; I think it would explain your opinions

Hm... I'd be mroe willing to think the QQers are the ones who oracle noob & have no idea how to play their class by +80 than those who say Clerics are fine & they have not experience major trouble in pve/pvp. But w/e u say...

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

VILKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think she doesnt mean making stronger Siren's in particular, but just pointed out it as an "unuseful" skill, & that overall clerics are underpoweredQQ & make this skills/or other stronger to "balance" it out.

If a class is underpowered modifying one skill wouldn't change that. Like I said, Siren's Kiss is a situational skill. It may not be as useful as Plume Shot or Cyclone but it still has its uses and doesn't need to be changed.

What I really want to know is where Zumi got the idea that Clerics are underpowered. I've brought down charmed Barbs and Blademasters my level, with gear that isn't sharded and has little to no refines (my highest refinement is +2). They had better refines and actually sharded their gear, and I still won. Clerics are powerful, you just need to know what to do with them.

Hazumu - Dreamweaver

Zan wrote:

What I really want to know is where Zumi got the idea that Clerics are underpowered. I've brought down charmed Barbs and Blademasters my level

With the use of sage/demon skills? At lvl 90 Clerics do get quite strong indeed, I've stated this before.

VILKASS actually put out quite well what I'm on about.

fruit wrote:

they are far from "underhanded"

You're from Lost City server which happens to be a pvp server. I have an alt in Lost City as well and it has a MUCH bigger lack of clerics than Dreamweaver... I wonder why that is...

I believe all has been said that is to be said about this issue, so I think it's time to lock it up...