attack level theory

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

The effect of level on attack is pretty well understood.

1) level contributes slightly to weapon attack
weapon attack = attack from weapon + attack from gem in weapon + attack from rings and other equipment + character level

2) a given defense is less effective against higher levels
phys reduc% = phys def / (40*attacker level + phys def)

3) there is a penalty for attacking something more than 3 levels higher than you (look it up in ecatomb)
penalty maxes out at 75%

Really I hope people use this thread as an example of not only how to come up with theories but also in thinking of quick ways to test them.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

yah i generally don't watch my attack numbers lol. just so long as i cancel spells (and hold aggro when tanking) the rest is just whack till dead really.b:pleased

Yeah, I'm neither motivated enough or care enough to figure it out for myself. I just kill stuff, but I do notice it's not a simple 1% damage modifier.

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

=_= why is this thread still going the GMs have said it % based why are you arguing it?

Yeah, you listen to everything a GM tells you? Wrong much? Yeah. Apparently. Read below. :P

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The effect of level on attack is pretty well understood.

1) level contributes slightly to weapon attack
weapon attack = attack from weapon + attack from gem in weapon + attack from rings and other equipment + character level

2) a given defense is less effective against higher levels
phys reduc% = phys def / (40*attacker level + phys def)

3) there is a penalty for attacking something more than 3 levels higher than you (look it up in ecatomb)
penalty maxes out at 75%

Really I hope people use this thread as an example of not only how to come up with theories but also in thinking of quick ways to test them.

Thank you. So there are at least 2 formulas used in calculating final damage... I don't see 1 playing a differentiating role from a single player's perspective, but 2 and 3 do. This explains a lot to me. ^^

Smobo - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

3) there is a penalty for attacking something more than 3 levels higher than you (look it up in ecatomb)
penalty maxes out at 75%

And if ? bosses in TT are level 150, then a warsoul bow on the hands of a high level archer will mean TT bosses will go down like nothing, just like the OP said in their story.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Smobo - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And if ? bosses in TT are level 150, then a warsoul bow on the hands of a high level archer will mean TT bosses will go down like nothing, just like the OP said in their story.

That has nothing to do with a ? boss being level 150.
A +12 G16 warsoul bow with +50 attack level and 2 G12 garnet should do like 2.5 times more damage than a +10 lunar bow I think.

Emperer is like 4m HP and that warsoul user killed it in 3.75 minutes (maybe in a squad).

With my +10 lunar I can solo 3-1 djinn (1.4m hp) in 3 minutes.

AlbireoTwo - Lost City

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

=_= why is this thread still going the GMs have said it % based why are you arguing it?

Because the gms can't be trusted. b:avoid

Beatrixxx - Lost City

just went to fb 19 to test using no weps dmg is 850 - 850 on mobs using blessing its 935 - 935 so exactly 10% increase

/thread

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

the database suggests that as a mob is higher than you your damage done decreases x%(http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/drop)

this is would explain why [?] mobs and bosses only allow you to do 25% damage because (i believe) they are considered to be lvl 150 which is more than 40 levels over the current level cap so according to the table you do 25% normal damage.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The effect of level on attack is pretty well understood.

1) level contributes slightly to weapon attack
weapon attack = attack from weapon + attack from gem in weapon + attack from rings and other equipment + character level

2) a given defense is less effective against higher levels
phys reduc% = phys def / (40*attacker level + phys def)

3) there is a penalty for attacking something more than 3 levels higher than you (look it up in ecatomb)
penalty maxes out at 75%

This matches my experience. I really doesn't seem to be a simple +/- 1% per level difference as the GMs claim. When tanking lower-level BH bosses with my herc, I've noticed that as my herc gains levels, at certain levels the bosses suddenly become much easier. Much more so than a simple 1% difference would account for. A 10% difference due to the level difference between the boss and my herc passing a break point would explain it perfectly.

Motoko - Raging Tide

Assuming this is correct (http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/drop) couldn't you test your hypothesis by bringing someone 11 lvls under the mobs in an FB. Have them fist the mob with and without a blessing. If you are right and +atk lvl treats your character as if he were higher level. Then the blessing should add 30% damage. If you are wrong it will add 10%.

Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver

I have wonderd about this theroy as well. But currently have no means to test it.. my archer i can get up to +40 attack lvl.. but that doesnt get me up to the level nessary to test against the lvl 150 theroy.

But if i can get this assassin to lvl 99.. i will let you all know.. because this assassin will be able to get +80 attack lvl.

Maragon - Dreamweaver

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Was reading this while doing my drake BH. Whirlwinded a mob for 5.4k, put my blessing on, and whirlwinded again for 5.8k. My m.atk has a very small range (5110-5176). If your theory were true, I should have done ~5.4k again due to if you are a higher level, the damage stays the same.

deleted superfluous image

EDIT: Picture turned out big >.<

you might wanna read posts a bit closer next time. What I said was that IF the proposed theory were true then the damage reduction in the table would act as if you were ten levels higher so that with the blessing on you would attack mobs less then 13 levels higher than you (taking defense into consideration of course) for similar damage rather than getting a damage reduction beginning at 3 levels higher; not that you would do the same damage with and without the blessing on the same mob.

While your point is valid, since we know that your level,as stated in other posts, affects your atk; perhaps that is just the atk you would be doing were you 10 levels higher with the same gear and stats and that this attack level as proposed by the OP effects multiple things not just a percentage.

Also, 400 damage isnt a big difference, its not 10% of 5400 and attacks can vary that much anyway. I have weapon with a wide damage range and my plume shot can vary by over 1500.

We all agree it give extra damage the question right now is just how.b:bye

So, as I am not near my computer with the client installed someone can try this. (I know the database isnt perfect but its a good starting point) if you are between 20 and 40 levels lower then the mob according to this chart you will only be able to do 50% damage. so someone with an atk level of btwn 20 and 40 go atk mobs their level and then atk mobs their level+their atk level.

Theory 1: atk lvl is factored into the damage equations as being added to player level

Theory 2: atk level simply adds a percentage of damage to atk

Result 1: you see similar damage (would be slightly less on the higher mobs because of higher defense) >>> theory 1 is true

Result 2: you see abt 50% less damage on the higher level mobs >>> theory 2 is true

Note: I am not pushing either theory. Yes the GM's said it just adds a percentage and I would tend to just accept that. But as a statement was brought up about it mayeb affecting other things why not look at it a bit closer. Someone asked for a way to test so I just proposed one.

kenlee

so, when you look at your defences you see something like 70% damage reduction from the same lvl. what if a single lvl above any player just add 1% more to DR? lets say 71% for 1 lvl difference or 80% for 10 lvls difference

UltraStatic - Raging Tide

wrong quote

UltraStatic - Raging Tide

Smobo - Heavens Tear wrote: »

% of damage or % of weapon damage. Does it factor in buffs? If so does it factor in elemental buffs like blazing arrow or poison fang? What about fixed damage bonuses, healing power, or DoTs.

Saying "% damage" really leaves a lot of questions open.



My str is 5 in both screen shots.

I did it with no wepon but when i add my wepon it is the same it is 1% of dmg noting more nothing less

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

i got two different tests in FB19 and 89

in 89
we has 368 / 334 = 1.1017964071856287425149700598802
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/DScythe99/2010-02-2609-59-05.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/DScythe99/2010-02-2609-59-00.jpg


fb19
i got a 515/468 = 1.1004273504273504273504273504274
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/DScythe99/2010-02-2609-26-54.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/DScythe99/2010-02-2609-26-16.jpg

well, even though theyre roughly 10%, its obvious its more complex than just a flat %. though im sure the guy's comments about it in the quote on page 1 are incorrect.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

my next test was on a twilight feligar

1628 / 1480 = 1.1

466 / 424 = 1.0990566037735849056603773584906

under sage ironwood.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

93 / 85 = 1.0941176470588235294117647058824
on colluseast

Dark_kuma - Sanctuary

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

i have a theory about attack level, that its not so much a %, but the game treating you like youre x levels higher. this may have been confirmed or theorized by someone else already but, consider this: your level is part of your damage formula (weapon's min or max + gems + rings + level)

my conjecture is that it does 2 things.
A. modifies the level in that formula via atk level increase gear
B. treats you as that level on monsters

i was browsing around google, much to my surprise, found a forum with some of our community posters, alot on dreamweaver to be exact lol:
-lost city's kristoph
-ophida
-fatherted
among others lol

back on topic, there was discussion of pigypig2 and clink(*.)'s warsoul weapons, +12 ones.


id like to see if some people who use diamonds of tiger can run some tests with me and hopefully confirm or deny this particular statement, and my theories.



maybe we can finally put the questions about what the hell attack level is to rest once and for all.

doesn't it say under the warsoul ultimate weapon guide on the pwi website itself that...

"Certain pieces of equipment are capable of modifying your "attack level." For each point of attack level you have, you will deal an additional 1% damage."

can't be bothered to read it all out but the links here if you want it...

Ultimate Weapon Guide

I get the idea that either you're wrong and it literally is 1% extra damage, or you are right, but per actual level above someone else your do 1% additional damage to them.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Dark_kuma - Sanctuary wrote: »

can't be bothered to read it all out but the links here if you want it...

Fail to read the thread too? Ugh... hate when people read the first post and just mindlessly reply without actually reading the content of the thread. Read this post:

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The effect of level on attack is pretty well understood.

1) level contributes slightly to weapon attack
weapon attack = attack from weapon + attack from gem in weapon + attack from rings and other equipment + character level

2) a given defense is less effective against higher levels
phys reduc% = phys def / (40*attacker level + phys def)

3) there is a penalty for attacking something more than 3 levels higher than you (look it up in ecatomb)
penalty maxes out at 75%

Really I hope people use this thread as an example of not only how to come up with theories but also in thinking of quick ways to test them.