attack level theory

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

i have a theory about attack level, that its not so much a %, but the game treating you like youre x levels higher. this may have been confirmed or theorized by someone else already but, consider this: your level is part of your damage formula (weapon's min or max + gems + rings + level)

my conjecture is that it does 2 things.
A. modifies the level in that formula via atk level increase gear
B. treats you as that level on monsters

i was browsing around google, much to my surprise, found a forum with some of our community posters, alot on dreamweaver to be exact lol:
-lost city's kristoph
-ophida
-fatherted
among others lol

back on topic, there was discussion of pigypig2 and clink(*.)'s warsoul weapons, +12 ones.

Originally Posted by aaerdan
The first grade 16 weapon on our server has been crafted, and it's a bow. Guildees partied with the archer who crafted it and went into the Holy Hall of Dusk/Twilight Temple to test it out.

According to the guild chat near-blow-by-blow report while I was online, Charie King of Dusk/Temple Emperor Doom died in ... three minutes and 45 seconds.

The G16 bow was refined to +12, sure, and the game considers the archer level 157 (due to the bow and attack level boost soulstones).

Our guild's resident archer-tanker and werebeast/barbarian-tanker, who were both on the team, said they spent much of their time feeling useless and huddling in the "emo corner"....

id like to see if some people who use diamonds of tiger can run some tests with me and hopefully confirm or deny this particular statement, and my theories.

The G16 bow was refined to +12, sure, and the game considers the archer level 157 (due to the bow and attack level boost soulstones).

maybe we can finally put the questions about what the hell attack level is to rest once and for all.

Badazmofo - Dreamweaver

so would that mean that atk lvl you can actuly well surpass the lvl cap?

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

thats what im proposing.

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

Does anyone actually know what lvl difference does to your dmg?

It simply increases your dmg/reduces it by 1% per lvl (based on the difference between your attack lvl/ the other persons def lvl).
Why make it more complex than it already is?

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

because you dont progress unless you question the accepted, i think its more complex than that.

Badazmofo - Dreamweaver

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

thats what im proposing.

hmm thats quite intresting so i would have to assume that def lvl does the same

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Does anyone actually know what lvl difference does to your dmg?

It simply increases your dmg/reduces it by 1% per lvl (based on the difference between your attack lvl/ the other persons def lvl).
Why make it more complex than it already is?

cuz were archers its what we do b:cool

PsychicHarpy - Heavens Tear

Only class this really influences is the Psychic sweetheart The White and Black Voodoo makes your statement very valid though Waffleb:cuteb:cute

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Easily testable... Try going into fb 19. Punch a mob with the blessing on and off.

If you do more damage than what is shown in your char sheet then the game must be amplifying your base damage rather than treating you as higher level. Keep in mind you are already 70 levels above and there is no difference in damage reduction from being 70 levels above and 80.

Compare blessing punch to non blessing punch.

Maragon - Dreamweaver

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Does anyone actually know what lvl difference does to your dmg?

It simply increases your dmg/reduces it by 1% per lvl (based on the difference between your attack lvl/ the other persons def lvl).
Why make it more complex than it already is?

the database suggests that as a mob is higher than you your damage done decreases x%(http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/drop)

this is would explain why [?] mobs and bosses only allow you to do 25% damage because (i believe) they are considered to be lvl 150 which is more than 40 levels over the current level cap so according to the table you do 25% normal damage.

Since any mob below 3 levels above your level you only do 100% damage to I would propose that someone with a high + atk level stat try attacking mobs their level with the +atk level stat gear then atk mobs whose level is equal to their level plus their atk level, and then repeat without the +atk level gear to see if the damage is similar (taking into account the difference in defense of course) I think this would show whether or not we are simply looking at a +% in atk or if the game actually views it as a level increase.
NOTE: this would really only work with atk level of 5 or higher and even then would probably not be quite as noticeable unless you went a decent amount higher.

any archer math wiz wanna verify this method? I like math but i'm no archerb:chuckle

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Every player in the game has attack level gear -_-

It's called a dominance blessing.

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

Was reading this while doing my drake BH. Whirlwinded a mob for 5.4k, put my blessing on, and whirlwinded again for 5.8k. My m.atk has a very small range (5110-5176). If your theory were true, I should have done ~5.4k again due to if you are a higher level, the damage stays the same.



EDIT: Picture turned out big >.<

Alexenokin - Lost City

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Was reading this while doing my drake BH. Whirlwinded a mob for 5.4k, put my blessing on, and whirlwinded again for 5.8k. My m.atk has a very small range (5110-5176). If your theory were true, I should have done ~5.4k again due to if you are a higher level, the damage stays the same.

http://www.healthhabits.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/myth-busted.jpg

EDIT: Picture turned out big >.<

atk level +10 = 10% more damage

5,400 damage
add blessing (+10atklvl)
turns into
5,940 damage


(extremely over-simplified, but meh, it works)

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

Alexenokin - Lost City wrote: »

atk level +10 = 10% more damage

5,400 damage
add blessing (+10atklvl)
turns into
5,940 damage

Numbers are approximate, and though my m.atk has a small range, it has range nonetheless. Besides, you have to factor in defenses and the like.

Alexenokin - Lost City

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Numbers are approximate, and though my m.atk has a small range, it has range nonetheless. Besides, you have to factor in defenses and the like.

hence my edit b:chuckle



however, i can say from personal experience that atk lvl is a +x% thing
anytime i boost it, it gives me that much extra %

course, only time i really pay attention was in fb19s on my nub characters

UltraStatic - Raging Tide

sin have cod

here is what i have found out from testing

no cod
Physical attack dmg 169-169
attack lvl 0

on a lvl 1 horse thing

119 dmg
238 crit dmg

---

cod on
Physical attack dmg 169-169
attack lvl 18

on a lvl 1 horse

140 dmg
281 crit dmg

---

all testing done with no daggers.
so ya it adds 18% to my attack very easy

Pressa - Heavens Tear

It was stated by the gms that its a percentile increase.

It was shown on the welcome to the game menu that it was a percentile increase.

There is no theory otherwise remove the idea from your head

Smobo - Heavens Tear

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Was reading this while doing my drake BH. Whirlwinded a mob for 5.4k, put my blessing on, and whirlwinded again for 5.8k. My m.atk has a very small range (5110-5176). If your theory were true, I should have done ~5.4k again due to if you are a higher level, the damage stays the same.



EDIT: Picture turned out big >.<

Thats funny... my p attack in my menu goes up every time I level.

And if everything PWdatabase said was true, there'd be a hell of a lot of capes of tauren out there: http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/14787

FruityMelons - Heavens Tear

Just to add to this. In an instance I get a blessing... +10.. then I use chill of the deep, pushing me into the 30's... So, do I attack like I'm level 100+, not even close.... I wish.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

FruityMelons - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Just to add to this. In an instance I get a blessing... +10.. then I use chill of the deep, pushing me into the 30's... So, do I attack like I'm level 100+, not even close.... I wish.

I do believe that your normal physical attack plus an added 30% of your base (I assume attack level simply takes the percentage out of your base physical attack) wouldn't make you perform like a level 10x character.

And even if it did, you still wouldn't, because that level 10x has better gear than you and is out damaging you anyway.

Your argument is invalid for the two above reasons.

Badazmofo - Dreamweaver

^^ this i agree with

with all my gear on i have the same dex as a lvl 90+ pure dex archers base dex but i dont do the same dmg diff wepons now if the lvl 90+ was useing the same wepon as me or vise versa we would do the same dmg XD

Smobo - Heavens Tear

Badazmofo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

^^ this i agree with

with all my gear on i have the same dex as a lvl 90+ pure dex archers base dex but i dont do the same dmg diff wepons now if the lvl 90+ was useing the same wepon as me or vise versa we would do the same dmg XD

Level 1 BM:



Level 2 BM:


-points at Phy Atk-

If anyone thinks I faked this, try it. Its a 2 minute experiment.

FruityMelons - Heavens Tear

Here's what I see..

Just killed pyro in the 69... Melee attacks had no noticable difference with or without the blessing giving +10 atk.

1700-2200 hits with my daggers... blessing on....1700-2200 hits without...

Point of note, i hit once or twice for 1400, with the blessing on.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

because you dont progress unless you question the accepted, i think its more complex than that.

Of course it is more complex than 1% per level. I've not had the inclination to actually do any testing, but when you have chars and mobs greater than 20-30 levels difference, the damage amplification/reduction is more than just 1%.

UltraStatic - Raging Tide

did anyone see my post or the one right befor mine. it is % of dmg i have 18 attack lvl.. It takes 18% of the dmg i am doing and addes that to it...

let me write it out for everyone that dosen't know how to add...

119 base dmg 0 attack lvl
140 dmg with 18 attack lvl

119 X .18 = 21.42
so that means that 18% of 119 is 21.42

119 + 21.42 = 140.22
after adding the to u get the dmg after adding the attack lvl

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

Smobo - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And if everything PWdatabase said was true, there'd be a hell of a lot of capes of tauren out there: http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/14787

what?
you don't have one??
I do b:dirty

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Was reading this while doing my drake BH. Whirlwinded a mob for 5.4k, put my blessing on, and whirlwinded again for 5.8k. My m.atk has a very small range (5110-5176). If your theory were true, I should have done ~5.4k again due to if you are a higher level, the damage stays the same.

not enough data here..
were there any debuffs on the mob that may have mucked up the results (need a valid control)?

5110 + 1180.6 + [95% weapons attack damage] = X
(if you're not following, X = spell's strength)
5400 / X = Y
(again if you're not following, Y = damage reduction)

//Apply attack level as percent increase, then apply damage reduction percent, resulting in damage dealt (Z)

1.1 * X * Y = Z

given attack without bless box (A), then Z should be 110% of A after attack level increase, given that no status modifying debuffs etc have changed between attacks.

IE the case presented above:

---

base attack of 169 (X)
damage dealt = 119

119 / 169 = 0.70414201183431952662721893491124

with attack level of 18

169 * 1.18 * 0.70414201183431952662721893491124 = 140.42

---

per the SS above, indeed leveling up will grant you additional attack str. though its not a full 1% per level (above the previous). For instance, I put my STR stats into ecatomb's character simulator and placed my thunderbolt axes in the weapon slot. The result was 1361 - 3189 damage, and 10 levels higher (no additional str points added) the damage rate is 1387-3214. The max damage end is close to 10% higher than the previous levels minimum damage, but the minimum damage is closer to 5%.

anyhow, i think the easiest way to figure stuff out is to punch things (really) since theres no range involved in punching stuff.

Smobo - Heavens Tear

UltraStatic - Raging Tide wrote: »

did anyone see my post or the one right befor mine. it is % of dmg i have 18 attack lvl.. It takes 18% of the dmg i am doing and addes that to it...

let me write it out for everyone that dosen't know how to add...

119 base dmg 0 attack lvl
140 dmg with 18 attack lvl

119 X .18 = 21.42
so that means that 18% of 119 is 21.42

119 + 21.42 = 140.22
after adding the to u get the dmg after adding the attack lvl

% of damage or % of weapon damage. Does it factor in buffs? If so does it factor in elemental buffs like blazing arrow or poison fang? What about fixed damage bonuses, healing power, or DoTs.

Saying "% damage" really leaves a lot of questions open.

Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

per the SS above, indeed leveling up will grant you additional attack str. though its not a full 1% per level (above the previous).

My str is 5 in both screen shots.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

per the SS above, indeed leveling up will grant you additional attack str. though its not a full 1% per level (above the previous). For instance, I put my STR stats into ecatomb's character simulator and placed my thunderbolt axes in the weapon slot. The result was 1361 - 3189 damage, and 10 levels higher (no additional str points added) the damage rate is 1387-3214. The max damage end is close to 10% higher than the previous levels minimum damage, but the minimum damage is closer to 5%.

*headspin* @ math

But yes, there does seem to be more than just a damage multiplier vs other targets as you level up, or as the level difference is higher or lower than you. The 1% as stated by most people and the GMs is just a rough generalization that doesn't take into account many things of which, unless someone actually decompiles the code or has inside info, no real way of knowing. Just a bunch of assumptions. I won't pretend to understand lol.

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

*headspin* @ math

But yes, there does seem to be more than just a damage multiplier vs other targets as you level up, or as the level difference is higher or lower than you. The 1% as stated by most people and the GMs is just a rough generalization that doesn't take into account many things of which, unless someone actually decompiles the code or has inside info, no real way of knowing. Just a bunch of assumptions. I won't pretend to understand lol.

yah i generally don't watch my attack numbers lol. just so long as i cancel spells (and hold aggro when tanking) the rest is just whack till dead really.b:pleased

Pressa - Heavens Tear

=_= why is this thread still going the GMs have said it % based why are you arguing it?

Smobo - Heavens Tear

The thread was started by an archer... have you never seen the archer forums? We've been known to argue a lot more, with more complex math over less significant things. b:chuckle

the archer forums.

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

=_= why is this thread still going the GMs have said it % based why are you arguing it?

because thats what the interwebz is for b:chuckle