Pure Dex goes Sage....WHY >.<

Remedey - Heavens Tear

Anyways like the topic says..WHY b:angry

I just wanna know, some other more experienced archers in my faction told me I am supposed to go sage...can somebody explain to me b:surrender

Olba - Sanctuary

Probably some weird logic that says something like this:
1. More debuff from STA -> easier to stay alive
2. More chi -> more sparks -> more safety

Badazmofo - Dreamweaver

well I'm going demon and all i can suggest is look at the skills and get whats right for you i like the demon skills so I'm going with them use this link to check the demon vs sage skills see what you like and then decide XD

http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/skillpwi.php

also from what Ive been told "sage archers have a ton of sparks and nothing good to use them on" a good friend of mine told me that while i was still deciding so i went and checked the skills which is all i can recommend xD

Ussichu - Sanctuary

going sage does improve survivability, but archers have the worst survivability as it is, and better of the worse is still bad...

Better off with demon to make our killing power better to the point we can kill without them knowing what hit them..

Badazmofo - Dreamweaver

Ussichu - Sanctuary wrote: »

going sage does improve survivability, but archers have the worst survivability as it is, and better of the worse is still bad...

Better off with demon to make our killing power better to the point we can kill without them knowing what hit them..

thats pretty much exactly what i tell ppl when they ask why pure or over dex builds instead of survival

AngleSnipe - Heavens Tear

For an archer, the best offense is the best defense. Face it, we are horrible tankers for almost everything, even at higher levels our resistances are laughable at best. Thus, it's to our best interest to kill whatever is in our way as fast as we can to minimize our losses. Now to the discussion of sage/demon, everyone knows going demon = more dmg/dps, thus a more offensive approach to the situation.

Lu$t - Sanctuary

Ussichu - Sanctuary wrote: »

going sage does improve survivability, but archers have the worst survivability as it is, and better of the worse is still bad...

Better off with demon to make our killing power better to the point we can kill without them knowing what hit them..

I wouldnt say worst survivalibility considering the dozens of tricks we have under our sleeves (granted some bosses are just impossible). I think no matter sage or demon an intelligent archer can survive almost anything...almost. And besides that wouldnt pure dex+demon=better dps? Granted you have the demon skills that gives crit. Also since Demon Quickshot gives more atk spd = more chi=more sparking=faster kills. Apoth pillscan make upfor where demons lack(namely defense) while sage archers cant really make up for the lack of dps/crits.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

some think sage sta and the spark/boa damage reduction is amazing?

to be honest they arent

its exactly what they all said, better your firepower, the better your archer, better reason to go demon

Olba - Sanctuary

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

some think sage sta and the spark/boa damage reduction is amazing?

The favorite argument for Sage Archers seems to be STA. Everyone and their mother seems to go "Sage>Demon because STA makes Sage out-DPS Demons in all cases!!!"

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

The favorite argument for Sage Archers seems to be STA. Everyone and their mother seems to go "Sage>Demon because STA makes Sage out-DPS Demons in all cases!!!"

only case when sage out damage demon is in pve boss killing if demon dont spam with skills for hours long.

TigerLily - Lost City

Remedey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Anyways like the topic says..WHY b:angry

I just wanna know, some other more experienced archers in my faction told me I am supposed to go sage...can somebody explain to me b:surrender

No clue what those guys been smoking o.o

All archers are suppose to be pure dex build at higher lvls. Any other build is pretty embarrassing to have, and considered fail, at least if you pvp. Only reason not being pure dex endgame would be if you already have a rank 8 +12 weapon and is the priority target of all your enemies - meaning you get focus fired by 50 ppl as soon as you enter a TW since you do the most dmg in your faction and you need the extra hp to survive the zerg.

Other than that all archers are pure dex. So that would mean all archers should go sage (according to your experienced guildies b:chuckle) which is nonsense since demon has the better pvp-oriented skills and 80% of the archers are demon for that reason.

Badazmofo - Dreamweaver

if you wanna restart thats up to you but i messed up when i was a low lvl also i have 10 vit and 8 mag but ive fixed that probl with my armors mods i have about 373 dex at my lvl (with my armor,wep and tome on) which is a lot more dex than most archers my lvl and even some higher lvl ones so remake or just roll with what you got up to you XD

Poniard - Heavens Tear

I went demon on my archer, the sage skills didn't look very appealing considering we're a dd class. The extra crit and damage goes a long way. I still think archers that go sage are fail...

Olba - Sanctuary

Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »

I do not know about demons being better than sage in PvP. Sage has better metal attacks than demon and sage has higher crits than demon and with proper gear can outrange anyone. Their stuns last longer than demon stuns (which is good for squad pvp) and personally I would prefer their aim low over demon aim low.

Sages might have higher damage per hit, but Demons got higher crit%. Also, the increase in DPH on Sages isn't really that big.

Also, there's Quick Shot.

Also, the outranging only works if you actually attempt to do it.

If you use a crossbow in PvP sage might be better for you than demon. If you use a slingshot in PvP demon might be better for you than sage.

According to this logic, bows are fine for either. And Heaven Shatterer is the preferred weapon by most 95+ people.

Transcend - Lost City

Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »

I do not know about demons being better than sage in PvP. Sage has better metal attacks than demon and sage has higher crits than demon and with proper gear can outrange anyone. Their stuns last longer than demon stuns (which is good for squad pvp) and personally I would prefer their aim low over demon aim low.

If you use a crossbow in PvP sage might be better for you than demon. If you use a slingshot in PvP demon might be better for you than sage.

I'll disagree, and here's why.

Stun + Sharptooth crit buffs give me a 45% buff rate from a base of 33%, which imo, is better than any incremental increase in damage output from sage metal skills.

What happens when a BM uses magic marrow? Your sage skills just got nullified. I can still use demon quickshot and crit my way to their death, *especially* if they use magic marrow. Thundershock gives a chance to stun & seal, which breaks up any potential chains they are about to unleash on you. Lightning NEVER misses, meaning I can potentially chain together 2-3 crits of 5-6k each on heavy.

I also believe demon archers have the best potential to beat out better-geared players more than people, mostly due to quickshot.

Also, when I was still 90-94, I frequently switched between xbow and slingshot based on who I was fighting. Trying to use one weapon exclusively (pre-95) in pvp is like using a screwdriver to hammer a nail in the wall.

Edit: oh, and demon spark trumps sage spark by far.

Narukanikahn - Harshlands

i have to disagree here, MOST sage archers on harshlands server either are hybrid archers or vit archers. I'm a full dex archer and im demon, sage seamed pointless when u can auta attack at 1.18 attk/sec with normal shots on most classes at 3K+ per shot and alot higher on squishies

Badazmofo - Dreamweaver

*b:cry I'm sry bout my earlier post i posted it in the wrong tab b:surrender if a gm or mod wants they really should delete it as it is off topic but it was accidental b:surrender*

as for sage vs demon i think that demon is better for pvp the DoTs have less time which means more dmg per sec which is what you want when your kiteing a (uncharmed) heavy or even in pve when you need to take down a tough mob and i would have to agree with Transcend the demon spark is by far better than sage (don't have yet but i did research the skills before deciding demon/sage and i decided on demon)..... and again sry for the earlier post

Astoru - Heavens Tear

Why is this even a question? Archers should go demon, period.

Demon spark + Quickshot. What else do you need?

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

Transcend - Lost City wrote: »

I'll disagree, and here's why.

Stun + Sharptooth crit buffs give me a 45% buff rate from a base of 33%, which imo, is better than any incremental increase in damage output from sage metal skills.

saywut? 45% from 33? from what half the archers here say:
-its a flat 10%, not a 10% of your base
-they dont stack

that makes absolutely no sense.

Etaerc - Lost City

2% from masteries.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

Etaerc - Lost City wrote: »

2% from masteries.

that makes more sense, just the way he worded it is extremely strange, as if it was their buffs giving it

Transcend - Lost City

I assumed it was a given that demons would have both masteries at end-game.

Just so sages/pve get riled up any further:

Base crit% at 101 = 33%
[Passive] Bow mastery = 1%
[Passive] Winged Blessing = 1%
[Skill Activated] Stun/Sharptooth = 10%

Equates to 45% crit rate for demons, 46% if you're ballin' outta control with elite dragotenna arrows.

Assuming I have the same gear but went sage, I'd still have 33%, no? Sage doesn't give any crit buffs at all IIRC

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Poniard - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I went demon on my archer, the sage skills didn't look very appealing considering we're a dd class. The extra crit and damage goes a long way. I still think archers that go sage are fail...

i agree if u talk about pk but dd class i think meant here in pve and there somehow not too many dark archer spam with stun/quickshot in tt3-3 or at world boss.

we talk about +12% but who the hell spam with those skills during a longer boss?

TigerLily - Lost City

I guess sage/demon dont matter as much on a pve server if you only do instances and grind and what not.

But in general if you wanna completely destroy a lvl 89+ archer go 1k and talk to the Sage Guide. Fail hybrid or pure dex = all should go demon.

This char was like the second or third archer that got 89+ on Lost city over 1 year ago and i didnt really care what i picked for it. I didn't think i would ever play that long or get 99 skills, i already have 2 sage skills from fb89 and the chi skill was nice. So i went sage and ended up destroying a char. I tought it would be fixable, or that the difference between demon/sage would not be as big, but yeah it is. Kinda pisses me of developers made sage so terrible compared to demon and not balanced at all, but in the end it is my own fault for picking the wrong culti path for one of my chars of course ^^

My archer only has 33% crit, demon archer on same lvl with same gear has around 45% crit since he can use ST/Stun Arrow and gets 2% from passives. You cant kill well geared 99+ unless you crit several times in a row as archer and 33% < 45%. Demon also gets 30% more attack speed for quick shoot. I only have more chi. The extra dmg from sage bow mastery is hardly noticeable lol. Its only like 500 more or so if i look at a demon with same weapon.

Only thing that can fix a sage archer and make it competitive against demon is going rank 8. The rank 8 gear gives you some of the crit and attack speed back you loose as sage and you benefit far more from sage bowmastry since your weapon will be grade 14 and highly refined.

But who the hell wants to buy 200k rep for an archer o.o If you're gonna buy a char 200k rep you better do it on a wizard lol.

Serinregis - Lost City

Astoru - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why is this even a question? Archers should go demon, period.

Demon spark + Quickshot. What else do you need?

The rest of the skills b:chuckle

not that im disagreeing, i just wanted to troll you b:cute

And as others have said in this thread, demon lightning strike is just amazing! trade a small extension on a small cooldown for NEVER MISSING.

and imo, the buffs are better with demon also, take wings of protection for example. with sage, you get longer durations for the buffs, but with demon you get a stronger version of both buffs. Now, in any organized pvp, you will most likely get purged by a veno sooner or later, so there is really no point in having a longer duration, might as well get demon so you survive better to physical classes and kite better with more speed.

Astoru - Heavens Tear

Serinregis - Lost City wrote: »

The rest of the skills b:chuckle

not that im disagreeing, i just wanted to troll you b:cute

I was trying to troll too b:surrender My bait is just not good enough methinks.

Serinregis - Lost City

Astoru - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I was trying to troll too b:surrender My bait is just not good enough methinks.

b:sad takes some crazy trollin to bait b:cry

Veronica_ - Heavens Tear

Depending on your playstyle is depending weather you go demon or sage. No idea why your frs told you to go sage b:shocked .


Personaly I rarely pvp ( hey for the ppl that say that on a pve surver there is no pvp they are absolutly WRONG ) but probebly my only pvp experiance will be TW , and the only thing make me rethink going demon is sage sharptooth , but for demon I saw more and better skills also the crit buff is nice.


Even throught from this treath makes me get the fealing that they say that pve demon is hard b:shocked

Transcend - Lost City

PvE is about controlling (i.e. limiting) your damage output so you don't take agro and wipe your party.

PvP is about unleashing the most amount of damage in the shortest amount of time.

Different strokes

Regenbogen - Lost City

Transcend - Lost City wrote: »

PvE is about controlling (i.e. limiting) your damage output so you don't take agro and wipe your party.

PvP is about unleashing the most amount of damage in the shortest amount of time.

Different strokes

PvE is about interval geared permasparking rank8 sage archer easily soloing belial with hh100 fists...b:shutup

PvP is just a bit more strategy and experience...

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »

PvP is just a bit more strategy and experience and mainly more time about how much ton u spent in game...

fixed..........