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guilds can fall you have several options, not all of which are nice however.
as has been stated forming a new super power is the best way, hard work and determination. You could infultrate into the said problem guild and find thier weak points, at the same time spreading destention slowly and carefully as to not get yourself kicked. or how about combine the two and have a home for people that leave.
of all the guilds on HT i think most of them have fallen to some sort of internal drama that caused them to weaken, once the bleeding starts the sharks (guilds) attack in mass[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Celestyna - Heavens Tear wrote: »guilds can fall you have several options, not all of which are nice however.
as has been stated forming a new super power is the best way, hard work and determination. You could infultrate into the said problem guild and find thier weak points, at the same time spreading destention slowly and carefully as to not get yourself kicked. or how about combine the two and have a home for people that leave.
of all the guilds on HT i think most of them have fallen to some sort of internal drama that caused them to weaken, once the bleeding starts the sharks (guilds) attack in mass
External pressure pushes a guild together, internal pressure blows a guild apart. Cele speaks the truth, if someone was really serious about breaking up superpowers, the best way to go about it is from the inside out.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
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Oh you're wrong, it's not that the GMs dont care. The faction that holds the maps on most of the servers(if not all) are the exact same faction, just on different servers. They spend so much money in the Boutique on charms and such that the GMs favor them and turn a blind eye to their unfair monopoly.Ceshiari - Sanctuary wrote: »GM's already implied they dont care.
I hate to break it to ya, but your efforts are futile. They simply just dont care. Sorry
Yes these efforts are futile, but only because of greed, not because of the GMs not caring.
Where are you spoons? We need you T_T[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Celestyna - Heavens Tear wrote: »guilds can fall you have several options, not all of which are nice however.
as has been stated forming a new super power is the best way, hard work and determination. You could infultrate into the said problem guild and find thier weak points, at the same time spreading destention slowly and carefully as to not get yourself kicked. or how about combine the two and have a home for people that leave.
of all the guilds on HT i think most of them have fallen to some sort of internal drama that caused them to weaken, once the bleeding starts the sharks (guilds) attack in mass
It has been tried already. Wasn't Steel about that? The problem with this sort of alliance is it still remains an uphill struggle, and keeping it together for the long term it would require for you to break Nerf is not practical. You can't really build a strong guild on just disliking beating the top dog. Also, the few second tier TW factions that still remain on the server will see this as a chance to take on someone they have a better chance of beating. It's like crabs trying to climb their way out of a basket... And i'm not even getting into what rumors claim is Nerf's way of dealing with factions that don't even pose an actual threat to them.
As i've said before, Sanctuary really is that pathetic that we've allowed ourselves to be beaten into submission. And this will all remain just useless qqing in forums...
Edit; As for Nerf being broken by internal dissent i don't see it either. The fat cats have become so used to the status quo they really won't risk it, not in numbers.0 -
yea i agree it is out of control. i have a lot of friends in that guild, bcuz quite frankly, entering nef has become something of a right of passage on our server, so everyone has been in it at one point or another (and to be quite honest, with the exception of a good 10-20 long time neffers, i cannot keep up with who is in or out these days). but a lot of the people are really nice people and we get along great, until guild politics enters the convo. these people have a totally warped sense of reality. they insist that they spend more at tw simply because they have multiple attacks every weekend, but they dont seem to comprehend that a 5 minute battle, where they win.. doesnt equate to high cost. the money they get from the lands pays for their bids (unlike landless guilds who pay out of pocket to attack, and get pwnd in less than 10 mins, also its a no brainer that the losing side suffers more charm ****, not to mention no payment to its members whatsoever), and the "multiple defences" are against obscure noob guilds with players under lvl 90, unrefined gears (comparitively, lvl 80 green tt+2 versus lvl 99 gold +10.. lol), and most of these attacking guilds cant even get the full 80 people to come. the proof is in the pudding, the battles last less than 10 minutes. some even last less than three. it's not uncommon to see the 11 pm tw start and finish before the 11:03 tw starts.
but thats not the worst of the brain damage. they also all envoke the same catch phrase "our goal is the whole map". "2-3 lands isnt enough for a faction of 200 people". to this my response has always been "who the hell do YOU think YOU are? what makes YOUR 200 more deserving than anybody elses 200?" nothing. absolutely nothing.
then i like to throw in their face how CQ on the other server got it all and let it go, and i ask what would nef do. "take a vote". yea, right. i'm pretty close with one of the higher ups to know his mindset well enough. he would never do that. before he joined nef he was the noble and altruistic type who would relinquish it all after having acheived the goal, but not anymore. nef changed him (for the worse i might add). no way in hell any of those neffers are gonna vote to relinquish anything. hell i wouldnt be surprised if they let one guild hold one piece of land just to maintain the argument "we havent reached the goal yet" and continue to milk the server for all the tw coins it is worth.
i've been saying it for about a year now, bcuz thats how long the map has looked like that, THANK YOU NEF for killing our server. hundreds of people quit the game over this. and now that i'm 100 and tw is pretty much all there is left for me to do.. lol. i've spent thousands of dollars irl, and my gear is nowhere near as pimped out as these nef ppl. they like to say "the coin doesnt go all that far" but if somebody who has never spent a cent on gold irl can have gear that is 3x better than mine... again, it speaks for itself.
so yea its basically 200 people who get to go to tw and actually enjoy it and reap any sort of reward for it. 200 greedy **** inconsiderate people who dont give a rats **** that they are killing the biggest incentive to play this game. if i were offered the opportunity to leave my server, i would. i'd abandon all my friends just to get away from nef. but no way in hell am i letting all my time and money spent go to waste by starting from scratch someplace else. if i do that, it might as well be in another game.
its just a bunch of people who should have gone to a pvp server but instead are abusing the pve server. they're taking unnecessary advantage. hell, they even have eminence, which they all deny is their left arm, but it is. just take a look at nef's website. recruitment for both guilds is done through the exact same channels, and the nef leadership dictates for both guilds. i thought this was supposed to be against the rules. i also lol at the thought of nef going up against the people on a pvp server. it's really easy to be the top dog when youre against people who prefer pve, which is what the server was meant for.
and just a note: no personal offence meant to any of my nef friends. i still love you guys.0 -
^ This.Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »There used to be two main guilds in Sanctuary, with wins passing back and forth. Until a weakening of one brought every other guild to attack the weakened guild. Which brings it to its current standing. No pity, serves all the other guilds right.
Seriously, I can't understand why so many people are upset about the situation that they made for themselves. Why should Nefarious be blamed for the really basic diplomacy 101 failures of the competition?
I was the smallest of 3 brothers. I learned really fast it didn't matter if I won or lost a fight with my middle brother, because any time we were busy fighting with each other my oldest brother was always the winner.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
TBH they should just remove any monetary gain from holding lands and instead pay in tokens which can be spent on TW related items only (cata's etc).
Will soon find out who is TWing for the fun and who is leeching off the bigger land holders.0 -
StormChaos - Heavens Tear wrote: »TBH they should just remove any monetary gain from holding lands and instead pay in tokens which can be spent on TW related items only (cata's etc).
Will soon find out who is TWing for the fun and who is leeching off the bigger land holders.
so you are saying people should spend money on charms, pots, arrows and any other consumable they use to get nothing at the end?
if doing tw wasn't so expensive maybe some way this could work, but everything people generally do in game and in life that is so much money and time consuming they do it for a goal or for a reward.
everyone will probably still do tw for the status of holding lands but it wouldn't be the competition it is today.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Candydrop - Lost City wrote: »so you are saying people should spend money on charms, pots, arrows and any other consumable they use to get nothing at the end?
You said it yourself it should be able the goal a reward shouldnt even come into it, so no IMO people shouldnt be paid for it.
I play amatuer Soccer, that costs me money every week. Fuel, paying my share for pitches, washing, SuBs for Clubs bills etc and I get no monetary reward from it but I do it because its FUN .
TW has turned into a business of what people can get out of it .. when it should only be about Goals and fun.
Looking at some of the server maps the competition is a moot point unless its a competition to join the largest land holder.0 -
You seriously just did not compare soccer to TW...Risingson - 7x Psychic
Indalecio - 3x Cleric0 -
Risingson - Lost City wrote: »You seriously just did not compare soccer to TW...
Yeah I know since Soccer/Football (Im English) absolutly destroys TW.
But was just an example and could have been anything, skiing, softball, movies etc etc etc. Anything people do for the fun even at a cost to themselves.0 -
Just call it football, really...0
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MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Just call it football, really...
Yeah but if call it Football the US players think of their girls version of Rugby b:shutup0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm gonna call shenanigans on this post. Your 2 "random" servers arent very random at all. They are Raging Tide, a new server, which wouldnt have had time to build a dominant faction yet, and Lost City, which was already 100% conquerered, but the guild decided to all move to a new guild to have fun retaking the whole map. Dreamweaver and Harshalands are similar looking to Sanctuary, and Heavens Tear has the longest running power struggle between 2 very dominant guilds split down the middle. In time, the 2 you "randomly" (explicitely decided) to chose will be like the rest in ceveral months.
The GMs have already said their wont be any TW map reset. However Heavens Tear has managed to not become a complete monopoly, cause there's enough valid TWers to fill 2 guilds at minimum. Rather then complaining, there have to be at least 200 more valid TWers on Sanctuary capable of coming together if someone actually organizes them.
I was just about to say the same thing. Lol b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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i agree inharshlands kingdom is just takeing over kylin is fighting cack but still its not that funn with on ruleing faction0
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Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »GMs have never cared, they're pretty useless. Same goes with Admins and Moderators or whoever. Spoons was the only one worth anything.
I agree with this 100% and even Spoons has given up and left.Executor Of Reunited ~ Level 3 ~ Level 85+ ~ No Drama, No Pressure Faction.
Hunter_PT - Cleric 9X, (Active/Main)
PoisonedTip - Veno 7x (Retired)
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The problem with this "just find 200 good TW'ers and take the map back" plan is it just isn't facing the realities of TW.
Assuming the best case scenario that your new superpower wins every TW they ever fight, it would still take you 6 months of taking one territory a week just to achieve a 50/50 balance. More likely, you'll win a few here and there and lose a few here and there. The fundamental balance of the map really wouldn't change significantly.
OK, so let's try Plan B -- the double attack! But still, as long as the dominant power can win one of those two defenses (pick off the weaker opponent and don't even bother showing up for the other) and one attack the next week to retake the one they lost, they lose 1 land total. Six months later they're down one land. Again, no significant change to the map.
OK, then what about a triple attack! That works in theory, since you can conceivably take 2 lands a week (net gain of 1 per week), but only if the 3rd "new superpower" is truly a new superpower and not just whatever random 3rd faction you could find who had 500k to bid. And now you're talking about finding 600 good TW'ers instead of the 200 you mentioned before. You really think the server's 600-800th strongest players can consistently compete with the top 200?
It just isn't happening.
Even on Lost City, CQ only disbanded because they bored themselves to death. Don't believe the hype. They weren't being generous and unselfish. They just couldn't bear the idea of another 6 months of 6 minute crystal walk TW's. They were left with no alternatives, so they gave up and restarted.0 -
The problem with this "just find 200 good TW'ers and take the map back" plan is it just isn't facing the realities of TW.
Assuming the best case scenario that your new superpower wins every TW they ever fight, it would still take you 6 months of taking one territory a week just to achieve a 50/50 balance. More likely, you'll win a few here and there and lose a few here and there. The fundamental balance of the map really wouldn't change significantly.
OK, so let's try Plan B -- the double attack! But still, as long as the dominant power can win one of those two defenses (pick off the weaker opponent and don't even bother showing up for the other) and one attack the next week to retake the one they lost, they lose 1 land total. Six months later they're down one land. Again, no significant change to the map.
OK, then what about a triple attack! That works in theory, since you can conceivably take 2 lands a week (net gain of 1 per week), but only if the 3rd "new superpower" is truly a new superpower and not just whatever random 3rd faction you could find who had 500k to bid. And now you're talking about finding 600 good TW'ers instead of the 200 you mentioned before. You really think the server's 600-800th strongest players can consistently compete with the top 200?
It just isn't happening.
Even on Lost City, CQ only disbanded because they bored themselves to death. Don't believe the hype. They weren't being generous and unselfish. They just couldn't bear the idea of another 6 months of 6 minute crystal walk TW's. They were left with no alternatives, so they gave up and restarted.
You're talking about a slightly different issue. The issue is having fun competitive TWs. Even in your scenario 1 & 2, the new "superpower" is giving Nef a run for their money. Making it a long fight. If pulled together well enough, maybe winning some. The idea thats being complained about in this thread is that TW has lost its fun. This new guild would be having fun, and letting 200 more people join the party.
If it all boils down to "b:cry I'm not in the biggest land owning guild so they shouldnt be able to keep it either!" Then you're just being selfish & hypocritical. However sadly, i think thats what the largest majority of QQers about this situation are really trying to say.
If it boils down to "b:cry I'm not a high enough level to join so levels should be capped" then again you're being selfish and hypocritical. The members in the power guild still worked hard to level and skill up. You cant try to be a low level & complain the higher ones shouldn't keep what they worked for.
If you want fun, the situation is remediable. If you're just jealous that you cant be one of the 200 in Nef or an alternate all-land-owning guild, QQ somewhere else.0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »You're talking about a slightly different issue. The issue is having fun competitive TWs. Even in your scenario 1 & 2, the new "superpower" is giving Nef a run for their money. Making it a long fight. If pulled together well enough, maybe winning some. The idea thats being complained about in this thread is that TW has lost its fun. This new guild would be having fun, and letting 200 more people join the party.
That's a valid point, but it still leaves 90% of the server feeling left out and with really no options to work their way in.If it all boils down to " I'm not in the biggest land owning guild so they shouldnt be able to keep it either!"
I don't think people necessarily need to be the the biggest land owning guild, but they'd like to feel like they have half a chance of being at least a small land owning guild even if only for a week or two now and then.
If one NBA team was able to beat every other team by 50 points every night, it wouldn't be a very interesting league. If there was one other half decent team that could stay within 5 points but still lost every game to the top dog, that wouldn't change much, would it? What keeps competitions interesting is parity, or lacking true parity, the hope that "on any given Sunday" you never know who will win. In TW, that unfortunately is no longer the case on most servers.0 -
That's a valid point, but it still leaves 90% of the server feeling left out and with really no options to work their way in.
There is a way, a very simple way. Cash shop. If you pour enough money into this game to get awesome +12 gear then you will work your way into that 10% group. Hell you can even by your levels aswell to make you into the top. This way is what an increasing number of people do but it doesn't make them better players.Executor Of Reunited ~ Level 3 ~ Level 85+ ~ No Drama, No Pressure Faction.
Hunter_PT - Cleric 9X, (Active/Main)
PoisonedTip - Veno 7x (Retired)
Skeln - Barbarian 4X (Rarely-Active)
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper. - T. S. Eliot0 -
Motoko - Raging Tide wrote: »
wow PWI certainly made a killing on oracles and hyper stones there.0 -
PWI will never stop any faction from taking any amount of territory.
for the simple reason is that TW guild buy gold from gold sellers.
more coin gold sellers get the happier they are.
TW guild will get pay every week long as they can hold the town / city.
IF one faction holds all territory they completely controls gold value.
most TW guild dont really care for gold value cause they get pay from tw.
TW provide tons of coins in game, more coins in game the less value it carries.
IF ever TW have some problem like its broken for like 2-3 weeks. gold value would drop like crazy regardless what special sale is in CS.
Its PWI making sure their gold sellers are happy.0 -
Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »GMs have never cared, they're pretty useless. Same goes with Admins and Moderators or whoever. Spoons was the only one worth anything.
It is simply amazing that you haven't been banned yet from all the repeated trash talking you do against the Admins, GM's, Devs, and Mods. I've seen them ban people for much, MUCH less.
I don't know. Their banning procedures are seemingly quite biased.0 -
Jennalicious - Sanctuary wrote: »It is simply amazing that you haven't been banned yet from all the repeated trash talking you do against the Admins, GM's, Devs, and Mods. I've seen them ban people for much, MUCH less.
I don't know. Their banning procedures are seemingly quite biased.
Totally contradicted yourself there. b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
"We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
"You live for forums. Like seriously."0 -
Aadi - Lost City wrote: »Totally contradicted yourself there. b:surrender
Not really. If you compare Tech's posts about the GM's to the one I just made, there is no comparison. I simply stated a fact.0 -
Jennalicious - You just went against your own post in the same post.
But its true. When has a GM ever teleported someone out of a spot they couldn't get out of? Or ever supported anyone? Only thing I have EVER gotten from a GM/Admin was, "Get off World Chat". People were QQing because we were having an argument over **** marriage and I was for it. So beyond being h0mophobic, they're just there. They never do anything useful. They set up an event for Sanc, yeah total fail. Everyone was just dieing everywhere and the ONLY drop worth anything was a lvl 115 set of axes. Way to think things through GMs.
And back to you Jennalicious, I'm just stating facts.Say my name 3 times, I dare you.
~Technotic
TrueMyths.Guildplex.com0 -
A alt character of mine has been removed from a spot I was stuck in by a GM in their defense....
The TW map will always be a monopoly because lets be honest... most factions are not willing to put up with the cost, time or effort it takes to build up for TW. In other words their leaders are not willing to give stuff away for free.
However there should be a way to pay and go head to head with a faction without having to do TW... this simply because it drives sales of items instead of limiting it to those who have more time than others.0 -
Back when there was horrible lag in the Cube so the timers weren't working right, one of the chip rooms said I failed enough though I finished with ~15 sec left on the clock.Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »But its true. When has a GM ever teleported someone out of a spot they couldn't get out of? Or ever supported anyone? Only thing I have EVER gotten from a GM/Admin was, "Get off World Chat".
I paged a GM using the "stuck" option. A GM got there within 3 minutes. We had a short discussion and he couldn't do anything because he had no way to prove I did or didn't finish on time. But if I had been stuck in terrain or something, he would've been able to help me. A response time of 3 minutes is excellent for an MMORPG, much less a free one. I was pleasantly surprised.0 -
Eorween - Heavens Tear wrote: »PWI will never stop any faction from taking any amount of territory.
for the simple reason is that TW guild buy gold from gold sellers.
more coin gold sellers get the happier they are.
TW guild will get pay every week long as they can hold the town / city.
IF one faction holds all territory they completely controls gold value.
most TW guild dont really care for gold value cause they get pay from tw.
TW provide tons of coins in game, more coins in game the less value it carries.
IF ever TW have some problem like its broken for like 2-3 weeks. gold value would drop like crazy regardless what special sale is in CS.
Its PWI making sure their gold sellers are happy.
Really? Do me a favor and look on the Lost City threads when Cq owned the whole map. I don't even see how gold sellers could be tied into this. A former guild leader of mine who wont be named, basically said he could get cash for tw gold..never did it thank goodness but yeah..that would be only benefiting him and wont mess up the servers economy. Ohh gold sellers not illegal ones...got it...anyway. Go to LC forum, scroll back a few pages and find threads labeled "omg cq is messing up economy". They never did, not like Dai gave ALL of the salary away to everyone( only get paid if you go to TW that's 80 people max and I think back then max salary was 3mil?... that's no where near close the amount that the guild got weekly) Yes it was easier to buy things with gold...but people where not stupid enough to buy overpriced gold like gold for 900k. Just because you have money doesn't mean you have to be stupid with it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
eatswithspoons "*roll eyes* real money for virtual property? That's definitely not allowed"
Lol what?0
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