''Rush it'' or stay ''alone''

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Rushing is something different and unusual for me right now, so it's kinda fun.

But I really dislike it when a group decides to rush even after I point out that I'd quite like the apo pages. Grrr.

Anyway, yeah - rushing doesn't seem to pan out all that often. It just takes one unlucky slip and you have to stop, go back, tank as usual, res.. yuck.

Seika_Chi - Dreamweaver

Skybelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Don't get me started about rushing to multiple mobs at once. Sometimes it's necessary but most of the time, it's not.

I'd usually use my AOE heal once all the mobs have been aggroed so I don't get any heal aggro as that's annoying. b:surrender

If it gets worse, I'll use BB. But really, it's not MP efficient for us clerics when it comes to people rushing. I'd much rather take my time in an instance.

But really, what's the difference? 5-10 minutes? b:shocked

Not worth it.

^-- okay two types of rush, i think u r talking about a rush attack, which is not the case problem here, ppl here mean to "rush run" (can u even say that O.o?) in which case u should never ever start healing. Don't know if u know the term to "train" where the tank runs pass alot of mobs in an instance to pull agro, then at some point (when he finds he got enough mobs) stop up and aoe them all at once. When u "rush run" the way of pulling is the same, just that u will never attack those mobs. Barb run infront, with the squad close after him, so they don't get the mobs giving up and returning to their spot. the rush end when u either 1) jump down to a lower ground lvl. 2) go through a portal. not sure if u can outrun the mobs =/ maybe u can.

As a side note my first rush ever was done without warning me T.T so i got pretty much behind, plus it was my first tiem in that TT so ... yeah thx for warning ^^;

Aeremay - Harshlands

Never heard of the term rush... pfft, most of the time some clerics don't have Holy Path and when they run through the mobs, the barb is most likely already at the end. Leaving the cleric behind, and then the cleric dies, then has to go all the way back because of a rush. o.o;

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear

Seika_Chi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

not sure if u can outrun the mobs =/ maybe u can.

Yes you can, after a certain distance the mobs will reset

Malei - Sanctuary

Sorry. I rush xD And this is coming from a veno that does multiple runs for like, three guilds and doesn't have the convienance of "time" in order to try and get apo pages, k?

Stick with me.

Normally, I don't even take a cleric with me from time to time. I don't waste their time.

Here is where the "zomg, she's a herc veno noob" part may come in.

When I am in a party of more than myself, I am usually paired with another veno with a herc as well. We create a sandwich, where she runs behind the ground with her herc, I run in front. We catch all mobs this way, incase I miss any, she grabs them. Anyone that squads with us have the sense to run when I[head veno] send my herc in through the mobs. They run, she is the back up. Noone dies, with the occasional exception of myself, since I am the first one in. Cleric is there? Ress. Or, I do what common sensed people would do when they go into TT.

I take a ress scroll.

If I'm by myself, even better! I don't have to watch the HP of another in my party, and I get through in half the time with exactly the mats I need. If I can't get past a boss, I Bramble Hood and rush past that bish. I make it, trust me.

I don't see a problem with Rushing. Not everyone does it like me, so find your own style that you are comfortable with. Those who squaded with me look for quick, efficient runs for the mats they need in the least amount of time possible. They don't have a problem with it. I'm not up for TTing all day.

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary

i didnt know there was a specific name for it, but i like it. As long as people know what they are doing and everyone follows a character that can take it, it makes the instance go alot faster. As a veno who will most likely be forced to pull the mobs, i say just run sraight there, because we dont have to kill those mobs anyways. I just wish holy path still was aoe, that made the run alot better for everyone.... but i havent partied with a mage that didnt have holy path, so i guess they would kinda **** the whole "rush" up.

Aarie - Lost City

rush it baby!!!!

XylolyX - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

There's almost no risk involved if you know what your doing.



Sadly not everyone knows what they're doing.

This +1.

When the group decides to rush, I make sure (if there's someone I've never TT'd with before) that everyone is CLEAR on the procedure. I explain it 2 or 3 times. I run down, turtle up, hit bestial rage, and gather every mob. The group rushes into the safe zone and I follow.

No muss, no fuss. Nobody dies and there's not 10-15 minutes needlessly wasted clearing mobs that nobody needs killed.

But then again I don't run TTs with randoms...only occasionally.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Never heard of the term rush... pfft, most of the time some clerics don't have Holy Path and when they run through the mobs, the barb is most likely already at the end. Leaving the cleric behind, and then the cleric dies, then has to go all the way back because of a rush. o.o;

If the cleric doesn't have holy path, which is surprisingly common, then the barb should make sure that he runs around in a way that the cleric can keep up.

Plus when the barb uses invoke then his movement speed will be a lot lower and the cleric should be able to keep up.

Rumble - Harshlands

More often then naught rushing goes fine. I see everyone blaming the cleric for X, Y or Z, but usually when a rush fails it's because of the barb. (Though if a cleric tries to heal then its their own fault. Let the tank die if they cant handle the rush and hope that you are i a big enough crowd that you don't get aggro).

These are where I have had the biggest issues rushing:

- Tank flies ahead. Hey I'm a cleric. I use Holy Path, but going around corners I slow down or if I catch up to you I have to pause and it takes time for HP to recharge. If you get too far ahead and the mob peels off you sometimes it runs right back into us. I've had this happen before, but not often because I try my best to stay butt to nut with the barb.

- Tank jumps through portal before you do. Again usually a noob barb mistake, but it happens. Of course once through the portal any mobs that camp close to the portal peel off of him and find good ole me.

- The one I see most often is the barb taking erratic routes. This falls on both of us. I know the barb is trying their best to aggro as many as they can so they zig zag usually to get aggro. Sometimes though they straight line it and mobs on the edges who patrol left to right will sometimes get me. That's what pots/charms/shell/etc are for, but if you see me loosing health pay attention please. If it's a long run I may not make it. I have also seen barbs cut quick left by a mob while I am on their right or visa versa so since I was so close I get aggro. Or sometimes when I am HP and right up on them they stop and cut back and unfortunately I run right into a group. Usually not to bad, but had it happen in 2-3 and he stopped right at mirror boss. Not nice.

Overall rushing works well, but I've seen some bad rushers and when you go down it sucks. To be fair I've seen bad clerics bring it on themselves. Healing, not paying attention and falling way far behind not using HP once. Sometimes to the camera angles suck in the instances so you find yourself clicking a mob when you're trying to run forward or sometimes you click ahead and it catches the ceiling or something of the hallway and you run backwards.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

I hate rushing. As a cleric, it's all too easy to die, either during the rush, or somewhere beyond it, and then you're stuck on the wrong side of rushed mobs after towning. No, I don't carry resurrection scrolls, no, I don't carry guardian scrolls, my potion bill alone is hard enough to afford. And no, I don't have holy path on my genie. That 5 to 10 minutes you saved rushing? You just more than lost it if I die.

As a veno, let me get this straight? You don't want me to lure anything? What the hell am I there for, window dressing?

As a tank (whether BM or barb, and I've tanked more as BM than as barb because I've played that class more), part of my job is make sure the squishies don't get squished. To my mind, that means killing the stuff that can kill them, not getting into a race and hoping nobody makes a fatal mistake.

Besides, I run the faction bank, and bank all TT mats. Mob drops is where I make what little coin I make in TT.

Boozer - Lost City

Wow at even 80+ being so terrible they fail at rushing.

You should even be able to solo rush as a cleric at 80+ btw. Spam 2 heals + Holy path + plume shield + use event pot or ToP if you get low at hp.

People that dont even bother to get a decent genie with holy path for farming, full int clerics that dont have enough hp to at least take 1-2 hits from a mob shouldn't not be doing TT in the first place.

TT runs should be smooth + effective + profitable which is why i would leave party if ppl start killing mobs wasting my time b:surrender.

Katzyn - Sanctuary

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As a veno, let me get this straight? You don't want me to lure anything? What the hell am I there for, window dressing?

I know, right? -_- I hate that, and when barbs/other people get too impatient and use their genie to pull, because you had to take a moment to do something.

Magicgabe - Lost City

Rushing isn't too bad for clerics. especially with a charm+plumeshell+heal. Everyone needs to just stay on their toes for little while. And holy path doesn't seem overly neccessary. I used to rush with speed orbs and +running speed gear. Rushing is easier than killing one mob at time for me. If idiots start dieing while rushing then you're in a little trouble, so no random squads. I think rushing would be worse for mages.

Satuki - Harshlands

How is rushing bad for clerics? Barbs/tank goes out in front, the cleric doesn't waste mp healing the 15+ mobs in 2-3/2-2 and you save like 10 minutes.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Yea I've always done it barb running out.


Cleric stacks like 4 IHs, barb runs out, when the healing stops use invoke, when low on HP use ToP/event HP pots. Everyone follows closely behind shouldn't be any problems.

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

There are spots where I always rather rush.

To the treasure room in 1-x (you know, at the point after chin/drum where you get to jump of.
Unles the barb is a complete moron, nothing goes wrong. You just have to be absolutly sure the cleric won't die, or has a ress scrol (and that that than is enough), or have 2 clerics (whith ress scroll hopefully)

2-2 and up the part after first boss (where cosmoforce is in 2-1) also saves quite some time, and shouldn't be dangerous. Also no reason why a cleric would die there unles the squad is fail

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As a veno, let me get this straight? You don't want me to lure anything? What the hell am I there for, window dressing?

to get mats, duh. Why are you in TT if you dont want mats?
also, you can use your skills like amp, bramble, lending hand, etc.
ya know.. veno isnt just a puller and by pulling every single mob, that run takes alot longer.period.

_Pale - Sanctuary

Fine...:)

Since everyone seems to agree that dieing during rushing is part of their own stupidity, yes?

I'll apply my rule of thumb,
Thank you, town is that way

---

>

b:bye

FanFon - Dreamweaver

i woulden't mind rushing *stealth*b:victory

Kephras - Heavens Tear

I've been on one run where they preferred to rush. Yeah... never again.
Reasons for and against rushing have already been posted, I won't bother to name mine here. Suffice to say, if you're on HT and don't want a "rushed" run, I'm a safe bet - I absolutely refuse to.

The safety and well-being of my squad comes first. No matter how you try to break it down or justify it with contingencies, steamrolling over mobs, killing patrols, and so forth is the safer approach. A dead mob can't hurt you.

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear

Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A dead mob can't hurt you.

What about the ones that blow up when dead ? b:cute

_Pale - Sanctuary

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What about the ones that blow up when they die ? b:cute

fixed that for you, yw

you have squad to help you

Kephras - Heavens Tear

What about the ones that blow up when dead ?

Smart-aleck. b:scorn They may go out with a bang, but they're still dead and won't be chasing anyone down or hurting anyone after that.
You knew what I meant.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

rush is another part of game which you should learn

and it s just too easy to resign from it (fatalities are rare if you do it right)
tyi i can rush alone whole 2-3 (and it isnt any achievement lol)

im sure that all ppl that complain about it here just dont know how to do it properly


rushing is bit similar to bypassing mobs in BH runs (tho is more spectacular b:chuckle ) u just kill few mobs u cant avoid - or is safer to kill


..or you all wanna tell me that you clear out whole FB instances on bh runs too? b:surprised

_Pale - Sanctuary

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

rush is another part of game which you should learn

and it s just too easy to resign from it (fatalities are rare if you do it right)
tyi i can rush alone whole 2-3 (and it isnt any achievement lol)

im sure that all ppl that complain about it here just dont know how to do it properly


rushing is bit similar to bypassing mobs in BH runs (tho is more spectacular b:chuckle ) u just kill few mobs u cant avoid - or is safer to kill


..or you all wanna tell me that you clear out whole FB instances on bh runs too? b:surprised

I think the point was not what you can do... but if the whole squad can always perform this trick flawlessly every time. If not, you have to go back for them. Nothing like standing alone in a room with 3 or 4 mobs ressing 2 squishies for 5 sec. while your MP goes down by 50% due to mana cost from ressing (and you are wearing plume shell). Or maybe you let them go to town?
It's a team effort after all and whether you succeed or fail depends on the weakest link in the chain. If it fails, everything becomes really messy.

It usually goes wrong when the rushing distance is too long for HP and squishies fall back to 5,2 m/s just about the time when the mobs start peeling off and running back. Or when the tank starts rushing without giving a heads up, so one or two members in the squad are lagging behind and get squished. You can also just be unlucky, not every death is someones fault in particular, but you still end up having to res them amongst the mobs. Often this means they try to get up and get hit again and now your best hope is that you didn't heal them when they got up. Or that you got aggro in a different way or you will be the next target. I can take a couple of reasonable hits, especially when buffed, and surely when I heal myself, but that means getting heal aggro so mobs will start flocking. It just buys time before you run. And still... you didn't res your team member and have to try again.

In BH's you rush 3 mobs then regroup in areas with few mobs to kill, rush the next and know the shortcuts well to know which are risky. When things go wrong, the whole squad pounches on the mob, kills it and continues. In TT, these rushes are often longer with mobs between traps and corners that obstruct view, so you often first see that someone is getting hit when you see their HP bar in squad drop.

I've seen it go well, but I've also seen it go wrong. When it does go wrong, it goes wrong in a bad way.
I don't want to say it can't be done or say it is always bad, but it's not always the smart thing to do in my opinion and definately it 's not my first choice.

Azura - Lost City

Skybelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Don't get me started about rushing to multiple mobs at once. Sometimes it's necessary but most of the time, it's not.

I'd usually use my AOE heal once all the mobs have been aggroed so I don't get any heal aggro as that's annoying. b:surrender

If it gets worse, I'll use BB. But really, it's not MP efficient for us clerics when it comes to people rushing. I'd much rather take my time in an instance.

But really, what's the difference? 5-10 minutes? b:shocked

Not worth it.

Only 5 minutes?

We always rush almost all the instance in all the HH's and that can save from maybe 1 hour to several hours. This are the HH I do often, I'll put more or less how much time we save:

1-3: We kill like 9-10 mobs in total, we save like 30 min.
2-2: We kill like 2-5 mobs in all the instance, I think we save one hour.
2-3: Same than 2-2 but we may save more time since if we kill mobs with
higher hp it will take longer.
3-1: We have to kill 16....
3-3: I can't imagine how long this HH would be if we didn't rush at at all.
I think everyone will prefer to rush in this HH because killing all the
mobs could take 2 hours maybe.

TigerLily - Lost City

I think people are just very very un-experiences doing HH which is why they think rushing is a big deal and dies doing it. Thats also why dont help 8X farm 90 stuff lol, they have no clue what they're doing in HH and it takes them all day getting to 1 boss. I rather they just give me the subs and let me farm it for them, i cant stand party with baddies.

But once you learn where mobs start agro - end agro and have a good genie with enough energy for using holy path X2, rushing is no longer an issue. You dont even need a barb for rushing, any 85+ class can solo rush most parts of an 90+ instance once you have ok gear + genie. Maybe not a badly geared wizards, but no one invites wizards to HH anyway b:cry.

If you start killing mobs in a 9X HH-party people will think you're total nub and many will get really annoyed since they have limited time and wanna get to bosses asap.

_Pale - Sanctuary

I don't know how this big time saving occurs, because without rushing and good DD's TT 1-3 takes about 1 hr and 45 min and TT 2-2 takes about 2 hrs and 20 min and 2-1 takes a little over an hour ( 1 hr 30 min) . But then again, there are no deaths. I'm pretty sure about these times.

Sounds to me like you are taking longer to run it.

EDIT: Or you wouldn't have to fight any mobs at all... that might work and shave off half an hour to an hour in TT 2-2, but never tried that. Maybe your ability to rush more mobs has to do with your level and gear. But, I'm not just looking out for the strongest one in the squad. The weakest ones are most likely to need help.

Gromskull - Harshlands

I see lots of clerics complaining about rushing and i kinda understand them. BUT! As a cleric you should allways have a res scroll and allways be prepaired to lose exp (you should have known that when u started playing the game).

While rushing it's all in the barb and in the rest not to fall to behind and never go in front of the barb. Now in my TT experience i saw the cleric dieing the most just because he is to eager to heal me while he's not out of the mobs range (btw is kinda funny to see a bright light over you and the clerics life at half....aaaand gone). It's important for clerics to understand that a good barb (with no charm) can survive a significant amount of time without heal in a chrisys situation (don't recomend experimenting)

If you know what you are doing it's way better to rush. If u don't want to, well don't. Yea killing mobs is safer, and i personaly chose to kill mobs when i feel that the cleric is not good enough, but generaly i prefer doing 2 exciting runs rather than a booring and safe one.

What do you think?