Paramedic's Ultimate Tank Guide

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Oke, Im surprised that i have to write this, but most tanks i meet dont care about keeping right distance from cleric.

Trick is to let cleric heal on max heal range so he has more time to react if bad things happen like f.e. aggro loss (so he can use survival skills, run etc)
This rule should be especially obeyed on AoE bosses (like those from fb69) unless cleric decide to come closer for some reason (to catch you on AoE heal etc)
some barbs think that it s good to turn around boss, coz then phy AoE should hit weaker. Unfortunately, most phy AoE hits harder if you are closer to boss. And barb on other side of boss = shorter distance between cler and boss >>"

Example pic:

'devil' -boss
'medic' - cleric
'Nono panda' - barb in bad position
'heart panda' - barb in good position
'loupe panda' - barb on other side if have good reason, but still very close to boss, hugging to shorten distance*

Some barbs prefer to do so on few bosses (f.e. Ancient Evil in 2-3) so it s easier for them to guess when boss is 'randoming' , and also they prefer if squad is closer to boss so he wont 'take a walk' while random aggro.
Well, it s cute if you can interrupt every his channel, but if not then I may start to hate you. :P On max heal range i have more time to use 'survival' skills.
So i think this position should be used if all agree x3

anyway..
always tend to shorten distance from cleric (so he can stay on max range from boss)
It cost u moving ur butt few steps left or right if boss change position, while cleric would have to run big circle around u and boss -which take lotta time and is rarely possible.

I dunno why barbs say 'why for?' or 'u move' when i ask them to do it lol. they often seem just stubborn

and when they do that in TT 3-2+ on aoe sleeping bosses (yup o0) i just wanna put expel on them (silence) and tell them to do their work now.

/if tl-dr then just click image >>"

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · February 2010

It amazes me how often I have to beg barbs to turn bosses around so they are between the boss and me/the rest of the distance attackers.

XylolyX - Heavens Tear · February 2010

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It amazes me how often I have to beg barbs to turn bosses around so they are between the boss and me/the rest of the distance attackers.

I'm usually amazed at the squad members that want me to turn the boss around.b:angry

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · February 2010

XylolyX - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm usually amazed at the squad members that want me to turn the boss around.b:angry

If it's possible for me to get behind the barb from whatever position he grabbed I gladly do it with out a thought.

If getting behind said barb is gonna get me killed, then I have no issues asking you to turn the boss.

Barbariankev - Heavens Tear · February 2010

well as much as i understand it and all in stuff like fb69 its actually more up to the cleric and DDs to take more range if we barbs gotta kite them we ussaly tend to get mass aoed and debuffed which isnt good for anyone while a cleric can stack a few ihs then walk some metres back without having us barbs ensured to get debufed

for TT3-x and belial i can't speak though

Jandira - Sanctuary · February 2010

Most times it is situational (if that's a word). It depends on the tank's and cleric's abilities and if there are tight quarters or not. Some tanks hold aggro better and some clerics are a bit quicker to respond in using the right heal.

Sometimes the AoE doesn't start right away, but only once the boss is down x%. Sometimes you can turn them and sometimes you can't. Just as tanks need to adjust and adapt, sometimes it's the cleric that needs to.

Just saying. b:surrender

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Barbariankev - Heavens Tear wrote: »

well as much as i understand it and all in stuff like fb69 its actually more up to the cleric and DDs to take more range if we barbs gotta kite them we ussaly tend to get mass aoed and debuffed which isnt good for anyone while a cleric can stack a few ihs then walk some metres back without having us barbs ensured to get debufed

for TT3-x and belial i can't speak though

who is talking bout kiting? we dont talk about positionig boss. it s about moving ur furry butt around boss (still in melee contact) to get closer to cleric- thats all

this may seem unimportant, but some bosses are gross or have AoE wide almost like max heal range - and yeah, on those it s serious issue.

RedsRose - Lost City · February 2010

your picture is amazing!! b:victory

Seamuss - Heavens Tear · February 2010

hmm dont like to be told to do anything,asked is great..explained even better..but told to do anything with my "furry butt" well w/e.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Barbariankev - Heavens Tear wrote: »

well as much as i understand it and all in stuff like fb69 its actually more up to the cleric and DDs to take more range if we barbs gotta kite them we ussaly tend to get mass aoed and debuffed which isnt good for anyone while a cleric can stack a few ihs then walk some metres back without having us barbs ensured to get debufed

for TT3-x and belial i can't speak though

Kiting a 69 boss as a tank? First I've ever heard of that. I can't imagine why that would possibly be beneficial, unless you have no cleric or a worthless cleric. Or for some reason the party decided to pull both bosses and all the add ons for the fun of it. . .

Could you explain what situation would call for kiting, in case I ever have to face it?

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

FatherTed, I have seen easy runs become difficult because some people think that turning wyvern does something good. (But when wyvern has his back to the cleric the cleric will be in his AoE where if the barb was where Paramedic prefers him the cleric would be taking no damage.)

Either I spoke poorly or you misunderstood what I said. I am agreeing fully with the OP. When I say a boss needs to be turned - that means if the tank ends up on the opposite side of the boss, he/she needs to turn it so they remain between the boss and their cleric.

ExtremeRa_ - Dreamweaver · February 2010

lol thats true. When I played my cleric I hated when the barbs in wyvern would turn him around so that we got suppppposably less aoe hits but its dumb because I as a cleric could just not get hit at all from his aoe when healing from far if he would stand between me and wyvern. Thats why as a barb i never do that. I always get between monster and cleric, which is better then cleric having to get closer to the monster.

Barbariankev - Heavens Tear · February 2010

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Kiting a 69 boss as a tank? First I've ever heard of that. I can't imagine why that would possibly be beneficial, unless you have no cleric or a worthless cleric. Or for some reason the party decided to pull both bosses and all the add ons for the fun of it. . .

Could you explain what situation would call for kiting, in case I ever have to face it?

in some cases i had the cleric standing to close which caused them to get physical aoes and they refused to move even if it would be more costly and much more effort if i had to move the boss this goes for ranged DDs to btw and it only aplys to fb69

i look at this guide in 2 ways somethimes the barb should move but if the barb has to move so has the cleric because cleric was already close if he/she was healing the barb if the cleric doesn't this thread is 1 big fail and nothing changes

or you have case 2 which i just described in my fb69 example

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Barbariankev - Heavens Tear wrote: »

in some cases i had the cleric standing to close which caused them to get physical aoes and they refused to move even if it would be more costly and much more effort if i had to move the boss this goes for ranged DDs to btw and it only aplys to fb69

i look at this guide in 2 ways somethimes the barb should move but if the barb has to move so has the cleric because cleric was already close if he/she was healing the barb if the cleric doesn't this thread is 1 big fail and nothing changes

or you have case 2 which i just described in my fb69 example

Oh I see what you mean now. I've rarely seen other clerics/ranged classes dumb enough to stand close to aoe bosses like that, which is why I wasn't clear what you were saying. That's likely because I typically ask ranged classes to stay right next to me before we start.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · February 2010

prob is that dumb DDs who went to shower afk on boss too close and gets AoEd are kinda rare

but majority of barbs dont care about range (they simply dunno that it s important for us) this is not another topic 'bout oracle noobs
even most epic cats i met, didnt do that that and half of them start to argue if u ask them to move (yea, try to tell a barb anything related to his job..)

this topic is about:

cleric shud be on ur 'six' always*

* - almost

@Barbariankev

many ppz have that 'cement legs' issue. in fb69 often if barb stand in crappy spot (like that one from image) and refuses to move, i shorten distance by making big circle around boss (i wanna have barb in AoE heal range and i dont want to get gank by phy AoE also).
usually, most DDs will follow me to stay in my heal range, but there is always few who wont and even will complain about charm ticking.
i seriosly dunno what those ppl are thinking and what they expect from me lol

Brutu - Heavens Tear · February 2010

ExtremeRa_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol thats true. When I played my cleric I hated when the barbs in wyvern would turn him around so that we got suppppposably less aoe hits but its dumb because I as a cleric could just not get hit at all from his aoe when healing from far if he would stand between me and wyvern. Thats why as a barb i never do that. I always get between monster and cleric, which is better then cleric having to get closer to the monster.

Turning wyvern around does decrease his damage, and I have always done this because that means he does less damage to the closerange dps, which means the healer has to heal the rest of the squad besides me less, and the damage increase on him is unnoticeable unless he is dumb and parks right next to wyvern(I had a cleric get one shotted this way before).

Ofcourse this is all a moot point as the cleric should just use bb anyways to avoid not being lazy.

Another example of a boss you stand behind is fushma, as he always seems have a running path that leads him into walkers and such if you don't do this.

You could simply pull him but I always found it easier to do this rather then explaining to the DD not to DD =p.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · February 2010

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Example pic:

'devil' -boss
'medic' - cleric
'Nono panda' - barb in bad position
'heart panda' - barb in good position
'loupe panda' - barb on other side if have good reason, but still very close to boss, hugging to shorten distance*

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

your picture is amazing!! b:victory

WTB PANDA/devil EMOTICONS~
b:dirty

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Brutu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ofcourse this is all a moot point as the cleric should just use bb anyways to avoid not being lazy.

This statement made me chuckle. Never heard someone say NOT using BB was lazy.

I've never seen a benefit from turning wyvern, and I've never used BB at him either. Guess I never went with a tank weak enough to need it. If I'm BBing, I can't attack. If I can easily keep the tank alive with IH, keep the party alive with chromatic, and still do decent damage, how is that being lazy?

Brutu - Heavens Tear · February 2010

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This statement made me chuckle. Never heard someone say NOT using BB was lazy.

I've never seen a benefit from turning wyvern, and I've never used BB at him either. Guess I never went with a tank weak enough to need it. If I'm BBing, I can't attack. If I can easily keep the tank alive with IH, keep the party alive with chromatic, and still do decent damage, how is that being lazy?

"Use BB to avoid not being lazy"means your lazy for using BB... You read it wrong.

Weak tank? I could tank him just fine without bb, however the act of using bb while it may weaken the cleric's dps makes the cleric's job a whole lot easier ie the whole being lazy remark.

As far as less damage, I have done wyvern many times with groups I definitely couldn't trust and from what I saw turning him made him do much less damage... Hell I was asked multiple times by certain clerics to turn him.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Ah yes, I did read your statement wrong - just the shock of someone suggesting using BB took effort blinded me - sorry for that.

All I can speak from is personal experience on the damage part - the only thing I've ever witnessed from turning wyvern is me being pulled closer into his aoe to heal the tank. The rumor back when I started was that if you were directly behind his tail, you wouldn't get hit with his aoe - which is wrong in my experience as well.

Even if it does lessen damage for close range attackers, it increases damage taken by the cleric - who do you think is likely to be more squishy?

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · February 2010

cleric wont get dmg at all if he will on max heal range from boss
wizzy with max skill and archer too

but cleric will get dmg if u turn around boss

so what s the point?

Brutu - Heavens Tear · February 2010

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ah yes, I did read your statement wrong - just the shock of someone suggesting using BB took effort blinded me - sorry for that.

All I can speak from is personal experience on the damage part - the only thing I've ever witnessed from turning wyvern is me being pulled closer into his aoe to heal the tank. The rumor back when I started was that if you were directly behind his tail, you wouldn't get hit with his aoe - which is wrong in my experience as well.

Even if it does lessen damage for close range attackers, it increases damage taken by the cleric - who do you think is likely to be more squishy?

Due to me squading with random people I was very likely to have multiple assassins in my squad, and while their defense to physical is greater then that of a cleric they have to be at completely point blank if they want to be a damage dealer.

So if turning him makes him do less damage it would ensure that the cleric doesn't need to group heal/self heal/heal tank at the same time as much.... This and the damage difference between the distance the cleric needs to stand was rather negligible.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · February 2010

then let sin stand there and stop moving that boss lol

why u risk squishy cleric life if sin can just move **** if he will feel uncomfortable in front of boss?

u take some dmg from sin, but u force cleric to heal himself now too. what so good bout it?

anyway, is wyvern dmg rly reduced there?

this topic is pointless, seems barbs will always have their mysterious reasons to do stuff in harder way.

3-3 today, i got sleep 3 times in a row on Emperor. Barb almost dead (top and shell ftw) rest of team has 1/2 HP left coz of earth AoE dot and i just beg him to stop tanking on opisite side of boss. Fortunately, Emperor went random and changed position to better.
and i know barb didnt bought his lvl- i squad with him often - but still, he dont see any point in making aoe bosses bit easier .

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

WTB PANDA/devil EMOTICONS~
b:dirty

rofl, sry but they arent mine i just stole em from internet b:quiet

http://www.emotasia.com/wp-content/uploads/panda-emoticons-where.jpg

http://emoticons.msn.com/en-gb/love/images/SYM_winter_devil.gif

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/9989380/2/istockphoto_9989380-cute-icon-set-emoticons-medical-staff-doctor-and-nurse.jpg

Shyachi - Heavens Tear · February 2010

from what i know about wyvern, he has 2 AoEs, one is a splash type so hits in all directions, and the closer you are to wyvern for this one = more damage, so i can see why clerics would complain about it. BUT he has one more aoe, if i recall correctly, and it's he's fan type AoE that's ALOT stronger (can 1 shot squishy) so as to weigh out the differences it's better for wyvern to be turned around IMO. The rumor about not getting hit off of wyvern's tail is a misunderstanding, it's the maximum distance to mark your BB range and the tank, and still keeping a good enough distance to avoid getting one shot'd by he's AoE.
i'm only speaking for wyvern's case, i'm still a learning a growing barb so i can't say for all the bosses (still trying to grab the concept of mag. canceling) but i try to grab all the the tips i can get from any barbs for other classes to make things easier, if there's any other things to know please let me know.

ZoanoAce - Lost City · February 2010

I hope u don't mind me posting this but this thread is not a Guide of any kind, just a complaint about an issue with the position of the Barb, Boss and Cleric in a squad. I'm one to understand your case completely when I'm tanking fb69 last bosses, yet the Wyvern thing is just pure ****, I always do the normal and Tank it where it's in front and the ranged attackers and Cleric are in back. I appreciate the work of the clerics 'cause I have 1 and know that my duty is to protect at least the clerics, let alone the entire squad. ^^

RayCrusher - Lost City · February 2010

Seamuss - Heavens Tear wrote: »

hmm dont like to be told to do anything,asked is great..explained even better..but told to do anything with my "furry butt" well w/e.

Yea just because us barbs with are "furry butts" as you say it have to tank every single mission,HH,TT,FB and BH it is hard for us to stay in one position to keep ur laggy fat butts safe because us barbs are annoyed of you clerics,archers,bms,wizards,psychic and assassins asking "can you tank this FB?" or "Can you 'help' with this FB?" or what ever you need. Because we as barbs dont get respect around here for you guys. Hect what if all of us "furry butt" barbs leave the rest of you to do your own stuff by yourself without our help and lets see what happens weaklings. Then of course at the end you all will be crawling right back to us saying " We are sorry for not giving you respect so will you please please PLEASE help us we beg you!!!!". So don't be blaming us for trying to save your sorry butts once again.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · February 2010

pffftt lol

go away, one thing i ll miss is hp buff

_Asterisk_ - Heavens Tear · February 2010

know this is kinna off topic.. but that pic made me lol so bad b:laugh

Sheeeba - Dreamweaver · February 2010

So somebody said something about using BB for weaker barbs on wyvern. That's all well and good, as long as you have 2 clerics. At 61, tho, my barb can't survive wyvern with just BB. My hp just gets steadily lower till i'm dead. Pots aren't quite enough to save me.b:surrender

If the barb is higher lvl or has better gear than me (no it's not my build...100% tank build) and can survive it with just bb, though, more power to em.

As for turning him, I did this the first time I tanked him, and ended up with a dead cleric. Obviously, i haven't done it since.

On a side note, i managed to stop every one of his aoe's the other day in a bh. I usually miss one or two, so i was pretty proud of myself.

RayCrusher - Lost City · February 2010

Sheeeba - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So somebody said something about using BB for weaker barbs on wyvern. That's all well and good, as long as you have 2 clerics. At 61, tho, my barb can't survive wyvern with just BB. My hp just gets steadily lower till i'm dead. Pots aren't quite enough to save me.b:surrender

If the barb is higher lvl or has better gear than me (no it's not my build...100% tank build) and can survive it with just bb, though, more power to em.

As for turning him, I did this the first time I tanked him, and ended up with a dead cleric. Obviously, i haven't done it since.

On a side note, i managed to stop every one of his aoe's the other day in a bh. I usually miss one or two, so i was pretty proud of myself.

Wow im impressed of you stopping all those aoes but we were origanally talking about cleric healing range. Plus on the brightside for me im lvl62 and I grind by myself in fb51 area and I live whole entire time through all the bosses. Then most of the barbs in my guild (GangZterZ) can survive and do their BH by theirself with no pots. So us barbs dont need you clerics unless the barb is a Con and not a pro like most of us.

By the way im going on right now promoting all levels for everything. PM RayCrusher for a invite. TW is probably next week against someone random.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · February 2010

_Asterisk_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

know this is kinna off topic.. but that pic made me lol so bad b:laugh

ty but -bleh- im disapointed:

i made that pic, so they could get it easly; made topic with stupid title to bring some attention: topic purpose was to remind barbs to 'keep cleric on thier six' and that it wud be good if barbs add it to their habits, coz it s actually helpful

every cleric here pretty much agree that it s an important issue, but they just argue and troll b:lipcurl

DeathlyTank - Harshlands · February 2010

It's a useful bit of advice, but is that really the only thing you've noticed as a cleric that would help keep you alive? Really it's only one piece of advice, something to add to a discussion on tanking, not needing a thread all to itself, let alone one so grandly named.

I do love your little chart though, that deserves a thread all for it's own.

Now I guess I'll use the search function, since I've just started tanking in a squad and I want to learn how to keep the cleric alive.

Paramedic's Ultimate Tank Guide

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