Just need opinions on this...
Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary
Posts: 914 Arc User
Ok, atm im a LA veno. I love being LA, but im wondering if at lvl 90 should i restat back to a vit arcane build, and shard fully with garnets, or should i stay LA, and shard fully with citrines. Which build is better, what gives better defenses and more hp? I also plan on going demon if that makes a difference in the matter. And should I get a blade of the red dust at lvl 90 or get wheel of denied fate, sell the wheel, then use NP at lvl 95? I just want opinions on this before i go through with it. No flames please b:cute
>.<
Post edited by Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary on
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i swear there was a thread asking the same question on this....0
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There might be another thread asking about this same question. but im too lazy to find it. only one i see on the first page are for HA and AA questions not LA vs AA. So if i could get experienced views on this that would help out alot. ty>.<0
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i think most would say Arcane. I'm a La veno too and have been set on going Demon at 89 for my own personal pvp purposes. I'm a fan of crit and spike dmg.. i hope with the skills, spark and am able to stack as much crit % as possible, i could do something decent once and awhile.
There was a thread that was AA vs LA and i think magority were in favor of AA.Q - How to win on Perfect World?
A - Throw money at it.0 -
dont get the red dust if you can get the NP at 95. 90-95 goes fast anyways.
and tbh AA or HA or hybrid is in vogue these days. I dont see a ton of LAs around anymore for some reason....
imo they are all pretty close w/ pros/consThe Swarm is imminent...0 -
Thats the reason im going demon at 89 too, for pvp purposes. But, I see in some threads they say LA is the best (in the early threads) but now they are saying either a HA/AA build or vit arcane build sharded with garnets. So im really confused on the matter. Did i mess myself up lol
EDIT: I was AA from lvl 1-70 restatted becuase i wanted better defense. I just hated losing my magic attack though. If i do go back to AA, i wont restat immediately though, as im still unsure what i want. I know this much, I want to be able to stand my own ground if my pet dies in pvp. I dont wanna run away.>.<0 -
you still got time b:chuckle
either way you wont go wrong with any build so long as your **** is sharded and +edThe Swarm is imminent...0 -
lol, well either way my stuff is gonna be sharded and +ed. tbh, i would love, love, love to try out the HA/AA build for a bit. it seems like it would kick azz. But i dont wanna gimp my magic attack. I love not having to just stick to one boring skill tree. I want the best of both worlds. If i restatted back to AA, my dex would be at 5
and it would make it impossible for me to hit anyone. >.<0 -
Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »If i restatted back to AA, my dex would be at 5 and it would make it impossible for me to hit anyone.
Dex comes as a stat on equips at times. My dex is at 15 though I'm pure mag and even without switching to patk rings (could use misty forest rings): I don't see many misses in FF melee.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
I get around 900 accuracy in fox form with 5 dex. I use some random p.attack rings that give accuracy. I dont use it that often, but its fun to keep around. Dont miss that often.
Also, a well-gear'd (expensive) HA/AA build isnt all that different in terms of magic attack than LA.I was early taught to work as well as play,
My life has been one long, happy holiday;
Full of work and full of play-
I dropped the worry on the way-
And God was good to me everyday.0 -
Ok if i show you my current gear it may help in the opinion.
stats(unbuffed in fox) http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1781/20100125094838.png
Helmet of lion spirit +3 w/ 2 flawless citrines
Armor of grieving sorrow +2 w/2 flawless citrines
Dark shinguards of hedes +1 w/2 flawless citrines
Swiftwind boots +1 w/ 3 beautiful citrines
Glaives of Divinity +1
Sleeves of the Sea Capt. +2 with 2 flawless citrines
3* artist's pendant + 2 (+4 strength, +62 accuracy)
3*Cloak of Valor +1 w/ 1 flawless citrine (mp +130, earth res +298, hp +60
dawdler's belt +1 -3 % chan
ring of the ancient capital
emerald meteor +1>.<0 -
LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »I get around 900 accuracy in fox form with 5 dex. I use some random p.attack rings that give accuracy. I dont use it that often, but its fun to keep around. Dont miss that often.
Also, a well-gear'd (expensive) HA/AA build isnt all that different in terms of magic attack than LA.
are you talking about not missing much in pve? My LA in foxform has 2.7k acc when using my +acc rings and can still miss an archer .... as well as can still miss sometimes on regular mobs.Q - How to win on Perfect World?
A - Throw money at it.0 -
LA+demon ftw. Did 4 crits in a row on a boss today, each about 70k in a space of 10 seconds. Grabbed the agro but wth, it was awesome. Shame there was no BM to HF... that would have been completely insane.
In PvP that would have brought even a cashshopping barb to his knees.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
yea im la for the crit and stuff. im not sure, but isnt aa sharded with pdef the same as la sharded with hp? its practically the same cause aa has hp from vit and gets pdef from shards while la has def from the armor and gets hp from shards... correct me if im wrong b:surrender0
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No it isn't practically the same... however I went sage for the added magic attack and I prefer the sage versions over the demon.
this is with sage fox form :
also get to do amusing things like this :
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and again... arcane armor with garnets has more pdef/mdef than LA with citrineEverDoom - Harshlands wrote: »yea im la for the crit and stuff. im not sure, but isnt aa sharded with pdef the same as la sharded with hp? its practically the same cause aa has hp from vit and gets pdef from shards while la has def from the armor and gets hp from shards... correct me if im wrong b:surrender
too bad that 4.6k hp and 4.3k mdef is like 1-2 shots from wizards around your lvl XDLyritha - Heavens Tear wrote: »0 -
Lyritha - Heavens Tear wrote: »
also get to do amusing things like this :
I did an amusing thing like that once. Tanked wyvern in foxform at lvl 69 cause the barb left b:chuckle>.<0 -
XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary wrote: »are you talking about not missing much in pve? My LA in foxform has 2.7k acc when using my +acc rings and can still miss an archer .... as well as can still miss sometimes on regular mobs.
PvE of course. No point of a Full magic veno using fox form skills other than purge/amp in PvP.I was early taught to work as well as play,
My life has been one long, happy holiday;
Full of work and full of play-
I dropped the worry on the way-
And God was good to me everyday.0 -
LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »PvE of course. No point of a Full magic veno using fox form skills other than purge/amp in PvP.
But, what if you dont want to limit yourself to those 2 skills in pvp?>.<0 -
Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »But, what if you dont want to limit yourself to those 2 skills in pvp?
im sure other skills can be useful for magic veno, but i cant see them using foxform for the dmg.. not with that low strength and low acc. I personally love utilizing all my skill tree, because i can go melee on some classes, like robes, and use skills like stunning blow to hold them in place while i hit them or fox wallop to slow down the casting, or even leach to gain a small amount of hp, or even crush to drain some mana.Q - How to win on Perfect World?
A - Throw money at it.0 -
XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary wrote: »im sure other skills can be useful for magic veno, but i cant see them using foxform for the dmg.. not with that low strength and low acc. I personally love utilizing all my skill tree, because i can go melee on some classes, like robes, and use skills like stunning blow to hold them in place while i hit them or fox wallop to slow down the casting, or even leach to gain a small amount of hp, or even crush to drain some mana.
See. that's what i like about being light armor, but i want to be the best i can be in pvp. And from the way it seems, arcane is the way to go. but i like the playing style of light armor best. I really still unsure atm, but lately i have been loving human form more than fox. Pwcalc is back up, so i just did a comparision
This is arcane http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=2983b31fbdc94282
This is light http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9bda65195bb2a0d1
both builds seem really good, but the arcane build seems the best. and this is why im unsure...>.<0 -
Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »See. that's what i like about being light armor, but i want to be the best i can be in pvp. And from the way it seems, arcane is the way to go. but i like the playing style of light armor best. I really still unsure atm, but lately i have been loving human form more than fox. Pwcalc is back up, so i just did a comparision
This is arcane http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=2983b31fbdc94282
This is light http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9bda65195bb2a0d1
both builds seem really good, but the arcane build seems the best. and this is why im unsure...
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=462815f019fa6497
I'd prolly do this myself if i could afford it without cash shopping for moneys.
and then i made one with pattk rings, but for some strange reason.. the acc stat is very low... almost 900 lower than my 83 venos with the exact same acc rings on. Weird.... these calcs are off by that much?Q - How to win on Perfect World?
A - Throw money at it.0 -
I've been mulling over the difference between builds. A lot of the builds which are posted from pwcalc are loaded up with different refines and shards which makes comparing them difficult (since you can vary those tremendously). I'm trying to compare them more systematically. I was looking at it from a heavy vs. arcane standpoint and I'm still working on that comparison, but I think I already have a methodology which is applicable here. Those of you who are math-adverse can just skip down to the next-to-last paragraph.
Setting the mdef on arcane armor as 100%, arcane gives 11% pdef.
Light gives 67% pdef and mdef.
Flawless sapphires give 80.5% the mdef of flawless garnets, so it's actually easier (albeit more expensive) to make up a deficit in pdef than in mdef. The difference shrinks to 84% for garnet/sapphire gems, but I won't go there for now. Weighting the above defense values to account for this yields:
Arcane = 100%/.805 + 11%/1.00 = 135%
Light = 67%/.805 + 67%/1.00 = 150%
So light has an overall 150/135 = 11% defense advantage over arcane (this step sets garnets at 100% and sapphires at 80.5%, which will become important later). I only consider armor since we can assume both builds are using the same ornaments (not always true, but I'm trying to do the simplest apples to apples comparison here).
Light requires 1 str, 1 dex, 3 mag every level.
The closest arcane build is 0.5 str, 1.5 vit, 3 mag every level. This also has the advantage of eliminating mag as a factor. Since both builds use 3 mag/level, they have the same magic attack, so we can drop that from consideration. Venos get 12 hp per vit, so the extra 1.5 vit represents 18 more hp per level.
So the question then becomes, since you can trade off defense for hp using shards, does the extra 11% defense of light outweigh the extra hp you get for 1.5 vit/level? Let's take the level 90 case. At level 90, arcane would have 1620 more hp from the additional vit. That's the equivalent of 40.5 flawless citrines.
The arcane has a hp advantage equivalent to 40.5 flawless citrines. That means instead of using flawless citrines, the arcane can use flawless garnets (which is what we decided was 100%). 40.5 flawless garnets gives 1660.5 equipment pdef. Since we decided arcane's mdef was 100%, add up arcane's equipment mdef: 1530+1315+875+655 = 4375. 1660.5/4375 = 38%.
So at level 90, arcane's hp advantage due to being able to put points into vit instead str+dex can be converted into a 38% defense advantage. Light armor has an inherent 11% defense advantage over arcane. 38% > 11%. Therefore, all other things being equal, an arcane build can (theoretically) match the defense of light and still have some flexibility left over to put into hp or defense. Whether the extra benefits of light (higher crit rate mostly) is worth giving up that ~27% is for you to decide.
Light armor refines for slightly more hp than arcane, but the refine values in pwdatabase are wrong so I can't factor this in yet. It should be pretty easy to factor in - just subtract the hp advantage of light's refines, from the hp advantage of arcane due to vit. There's also a bonus to defense from vit, but I haven't yet figured out exactly how that works (seems to be proportional to your defense). Both these factors work in opposite ways so hopefully they mostly cancel out.0 -
Well I still cant decide though. So I played around with pwcalc, seeing the difference between the builds. I made both builds have similar refines and similar ortaments. And tbh, both look pretty decent to me, and that's why its hard to decide...
So I'll go by if i restat back to arcane, i'll shoot for something like this: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=384f7ae230931710 and if i stay LA, i'll do this: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ef246d120e974ab5 Both builds are cheap, affordable builds, that the average lvl 96 veno could achieve without having to sell their soul. Both builds are buffed with lvl 10 cleric buffs, sage barb and bm buffs, and in demon fox form.
EDIT: Now that i went back and did it with similar refines and ortaments, I dont really see so much of a difference. Anyways if i stay LA my realistic build at lvl 90 would be something like this http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=cff2a3491c2222b5 considering I have most of that stuff anyways.>.<0 -
You should only go LA if you feel confident that by endgame you will have a very high crit rate. Its really the only reason why you would want to go LA. And by high I mean approaching 30%.
Vit arcane + garnets has better hp values and higher p.def/m.def... Here is your vit acrane build with stats jumbled for better survivability: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=087c17b98195e9dc[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
one question, why would you like to use green TT90 gloves for AA and gold TT90 (oracle) for LA? i would use oracle sleeves in both casesMs_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »Well I still cant decide though. So I played around with pwcalc, seeing the difference between the builds. I made both builds have similar refines and similar ortaments. And tbh, both look pretty decent to me, and that's why its hard to decide...
So I'll go by if i restat back to arcane, i'll shoot for something like this: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=384f7ae230931710 and if i stay LA, i'll do this: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ef246d120e974ab5 Both builds are cheap, affordable builds, that the average lvl 96 veno could achieve without having to sell their soul. Both builds are buffed with lvl 10 cleric buffs, sage barb and bm buffs, and in demon fox form.0 -
one question, why would you like to use green TT90 gloves for AA and gold TT90 (oracle) for LA? i would use oracle sleeves in both cases
because LA venos need more -channeling then arcane venos for better fast heals, or at least thats how it is in my experience. I have -9% channeling that allows my herc to tank 3-1. I dont think i'd be able to tank it without that, Where as a pure mage or vit-mage veno my lvl probably could do it without the -channeling. At least thats what i think, but i could be wrong.
EDIT (to axt57) I would love to have a high crit rate end game. but probably wouldnt be able to get it without cashshopping for the items. I think a good LA endgame build could be something like this. http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=71b0eb9de8c5ad64 (nevermind, make that a godly build, I +12ed everything xD) but anyways a more realistic LA build would be something like this: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=7d774fa61a222002 and from what i see on sanctuary server, alot of high lvl LA veno's have these equips.>.<0 -
Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »because LA venos need more -channeling then arcane venos for better fast heals, or at least thats how it is in my experience. I have -9% channeling that allows my herc to tank 3-1. I dont think i'd be able to tank it without that, Where as a pure mage or vit-mage veno my lvl probably could do it without the -channeling. At least thats what i think, but i could be wrong.
I'm pure magic.
0 stat points on vit. :O
-12% channelling
and heal works good.
Well, it'd be a problem with phys aoe bosses, but with BB I'm always survived.
I think that a LA must equip chan and crit gears. Cuz critting heal she can heal his pet better than a pure magic. But this needs a lot of coins. :P
And well, if u've a herc, dont worry.
If u're not crazy as happybunny that always steal aggro from her herc, u wont receive either 1 hit, also when ur herc at lvl 73 take about 25 pirate in nightscream ^^
So, LA is good with some bosses with phys aoe long ranged or pvp. Or for veno that hasnt herc.
And LA is good also for fox form.
I dislike fox form, love letting the herc make his work, and I love holypatthing away, too :P LOL0 -
_Leiian_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm pure magic.
0 stat points on vit. :O
-12% channelling
and heal works good.
Well, it'd be a problem with phys aoe bosses, but with BB I'm always survived.
I think that a LA must equip chan and crit gears. Cuz critting heal she can heal his pet better than a pure magic. But this needs a lot of coins. :P
And well, if u've a herc, dont worry.
If u're not crazy as happybunny that always steal aggro from her herc, u wont receive either 1 hit, also when ur herc at lvl 73 take about 25 pirate in nightscream ^^
So, LA is good with some bosses with phys aoe long ranged or pvp. Or for veno that hasnt herc.
And LA is good also for fox form.
I dislike fox form, love letting the herc make his work, and I love holypatthing away, too :P LOL
crit healing? Ive never heard of that lol b:surrender>.<0 -
and AA dont need channeling? more is better but if we dont count that chaneling stats its still like 142 pdef more which i find it also good for AAMs_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »because LA venos need more -channeling then arcane venos for better fast heals, or at least thats how it is in my experience. I have -9% channeling that allows my herc to tank 3-1. I dont think i'd be able to tank it without that, Where as a pure mage or vit-mage veno my lvl probably could do it without the -channeling. At least thats what i think, but i could be wrong.
oh and critical heals dont exist0 -
_Leiian_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »If u're not crazy as happybunny that always steal aggro from her herc,
lol I dislike having 25 mobs on my herc and only being able to heal it. tis boring b:victoryQ - How to win on Perfect World?
A - Throw money at it.0
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