Chain Mail - Light Armor

Sneakret - Heavens Tear

Ah, so you do get what I meant lol, keep in mind the numbers are only theoretical as I haven't looked into exact stating for a mix.


Heavy : high Str : Low Dex
Scale : between high/med Str : between Med/low Dex
Light : med Str : med Dex
Leather: between med/low Str : between Med/High Dex </>or 2 of the stats out of mag/mag| str/str | dex/dex |
Arcane : low Str : High magic


The problem throwing off the balance there for dex/str requirements is in the fact that arcane requires Mag, not dex. In order for it to be used by arcane classes, the req would still have to be lowered a bit so that they can be in reach of their magic weap of lvl and still use the leather type setup.

Lusca - Sanctuary

ChaseyLain - Lost City wrote: »

pure STR BM has no survivability at all unless they are hardcore refined.

i like how you ignored the whole archer part lol

a no vit bm with the same refines has more survivability than an archer with the same refines

and no one goes pure str, they go str/dex so they can use all weapons

that IS lowering stat requirements. that is lowering the strength requirement because you would rather put more points into dex. that would be like saying all AA and magic weapons now only take 9 points of strength and shift the other 40 points into a magic requirement at 90. Why? because STR is no good for casters so they no longer have to spend 40 useless points.

see the point? it would be helping a dex based class but if a caster wants to use LA for some reason it isnt helping them at all because both STR and DEX are both useless to them.

arcane is what 1 str 5 magic every 2 levels?

so why can't archers and assassins have an armor that is 1 str 5 dex every to levels huh??

or is it just unbalanced because venos won't be able to use it?? lol

ChaseyLain - Lost City

Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »

i like how you ignored the whole archer part lol

a no vit bm with the same refines has more survivability than an archer with the same refines

and no one goes pure str, they go str/dex so they can use all weapons




arcane is what 1 str 5 magic every 2 levels?

so why can't archers and assassins have an armor that is 1 str 5 dex every to levels huh??

or is it just unbalanced because venos won't be able to use it?? lol

sure you can have that but it will have the same PDEF as robes then. still want it?

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Sneakret - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Heavy : high Str : Low Dex
Scale : between high/med Str : between Med/low Dex
Light : med Str : med Dex
Leather: between med/low Str : between Med/High Dex </>or 2 of the stats out of mag/mag| str/str | dex/dex |
Arcane : low Str : High magic

Lowering the Str requirement and raising the Dex requirement will allow Dex-based classes to have a higher DPS (as pointed out by many others).

For this Chain Mail armor, change it so that there are 3 minimum stats:

- Str - Lower this by a bit, when compared to Light Armor
- Dex - Keep this the same.
- Magic - Set this number equal to the value you lowered the strength by.

For example, TT70 Light Armor requires 74 Strength and 74 Dexterity. A level 70 Chain Mail could have requirements of 51 Strength, 74 Dexterity, and 23 Magic.

The main concern everyone is having is that Dex-based classes would gain a DPS boost if the Strength requirement is lowered and the Dexterity requirement is raised for Chain Mail. The solution I am suggesting is to lower the Strength requirement as suggested, but instead raise the Magic requirement by the same number of points. This means the number of non-Dex points required is the same.

The resulting effects for classes that use this armor are:

- Assassins - Compared to Light Armor, Assassins wearing Chain Mail would have the same Ranged and Melee Damage output, b/c the number of non-Dex points required to wear the armor is the same. Assassins will have higher Magic Resistances, lower Physical Resistances, higher Magic stat, and lower Strength stat. There is no benefit nor detriment that are inconsistent with the armor resistance changes.

- Archers - Compared to Light Armor, Archers wearing Chain Mail would have the same Ranged Damage output, b/c the number of non-Dex points required to wear the armor is the same. Archers will have higher Magic Resistances, lower Physical Resistances, higher Magic stat, and lower Strength stat. There are no significant benefits nor detriments that are inconsistent with the armor resistance changes. The only exception would be damage in melee, which is not that important to most archers. Certainly, some archers can do a lot of wonderful things wearing Fists, but that just means the Archer should wear Light Armor instead of Chain Mail, if they want to go that route.

- Magic-based classes - Compared to Light Armor, Magic-users wearing Chain Mail would have increased Damage out put, b/c the number of non-Magic points required to wear the armor is decreased. Magic-users will have higher Magic Resistances, lower Physical Resistances, higher Magic stat, and lower Strength stat when compared to wearing Light Armor. There is a benefit to wearing this armor compared to Light Armor beyond the armor resistance changes, which is that the magic-user gets more stat points to spend in Magic. On the other hand, if the magic-user really wants to maximize their damage output, then that character can just go with Arcane Armor anyways. This means magic-users have a flexibility to choose amongst Arcane Armor (most damage, high Mag resist, lowest Phys resist), Chain Mail (less damage, good Mag resist, low Phys resists), and Light Armor (least damage, medium Mag resist, medium Phys Resist).

The only classes that gets a benefit beyond the armor's intended resistance change are the magic ones, when compared to wearing Light Armor. Magic-users can deal more damage wearing Chain Mail when compared to wearing Light Armor, but still do less damage than when compared to wearing Arcane Armor.

Suggested requirements formula, +/- 1 due to some rounding:

- Strength: (Level / 1.5) + 4, rounded down
- Dexterity: Level + 4
- Magic: (Level + 4) - (Strength Requirement)

Lusca - Sanctuary

ChaseyLain - Lost City wrote: »

sure you can have that but it will have the same PDEF as robes then. still want it?

if it has the same p.def as robes it would have the same m.def, so sure b:victoryb:victory

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lowering the Str requirement and raising the Dex requirement will allow Dex-based classes to have a higher DPS (as pointed out by many others).

The main concern everyone is having is that Dex-based classes would gain a DPS boost if the Strength requirement is lowered and the Dexterity requirement is raised for Chain Mail. The solution I am suggesting is to lower the Strength requirement as suggested, but instead raise the Magic requirement by the same number of points. This means the number of non-Dex points required is the same.

i see nothing wrong with giving archers a dps boast, i don't know about sins thou since there still isn't many high leveled ones

wizards can go 1 str 9 magic every 2 levels, why shouldn't archers and assassins be aloud to use 1 str 9 dex every two levels??

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Ah, my thanx for the correction Sir Lusca. I edited my original post.

It is more about preserving existing game balance (or lack thereof). Having 9 dex / 1 str allows Dex-based classes to exceed what they can currently dish out. Thus is a fundamental change to the existing game class interaction.

Adding Chain Mail as I suggested does not do this. You can rebalance your character's tradeoffs, but damage output is the same. Even magic-users do not gain a big damage boost, b/c if they wanted to, they could just go with arcane robes instead of chain mail.

Lusca - Sanctuary

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ah, my thanx for the correction Sir Lusca. I edited my original post.

It is more about preserving existing game balance (or lack thereof). Having 9 dex / 1 str allows Dex-based classes to exceed what they can currently dish out. Thus is a fundamental change to the existing game class interaction.

Adding Chain Mail as I suggested does not do this. You can rebalance your character's tradeoffs, but damage output is the same. Even magic-users do not gain a big damage boost, b/c if they wanted to, they could just go with arcane robes instead of chain mail.

lol i edited my post for you

Yeah that is what i wanted to achieve with adding a new armor. I understand it would be a fundamental change, but i think it would be a change for the better.

While yes i will agree your suggestion is very good, and does provide an option for adding a new armor without changing too much of the game play.
The main reason i thought of adding my idea of new armor was to allow archers and sins to go 1 str 9 dex every two levels, similar to wizards going 1 str 9 magic every two levels.

ChaseyLain - Lost City

higher pdef=higher str. lowering the str and adding mag doesnt fix the balance issue.

if a archer/assassin really would want the pdef of robes to add more dex there will just be even more 1 shots running around.

Sneakret - Heavens Tear

There will always be "1 shots" running around, it's a fundamental game dynamic.

For veno's you run around with ream on a pet and let it do the dirty work till a heavy class comes around and then you stun em and drop em. Most other classes are capable of 1 shotting an opponent because their damage is not split between 2 different DD's.


But, we do still have a fourth ? spot in the TT forges so regardless of whether it's balanced or not to all, there is always a small chance that the devs will decide it's time for something to fill that spot. Though the more likely act is that it will eventually be taken out all together.



(edit: had to leave for store mid post b:surrender) For an assassin/archer, if they chose to go this route it just makes them better at killing within their natural selection lol, however at the same time they become easy targets for bm's, barbs, other assassins, and other archers. This is actually raising the number of classes that kill them easily.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

A magic based class has armor with high mag requirements and low str. Str based classes have high str armor with low dex. How come there is no high dex armor? LA is the worst armor in the game since it has the highest requitement of a useless stat and the lowest combined resist. Vit builds with archers are fail since there are so few points available. By the end of the game LA classes are 50 points behind the other classes.

Maybe they should switvh arcane to be 1mag / 1str every level as well.

ChaseyLain - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

A magic based class has armor with high mag requirements and low str. Str based classes have high str armor with low dex. How come there is no high dex armor? LA is the worst armor in the game since it has the highest requitement of a useless stat and the lowest combined resist. Vit builds with archers are fail since there are so few points available. By the end of the game LA classes are 50 points behind the other classes.

Maybe they should switvh arcane to be 1mag / 1str every level as well.

archer/assassins are the only classes that feel its their right to be able to put 100% of their points into damage then complain that they ever die. if a pure magic caster dies archers are the first ones to laugh and say lol add vit you 1 shot noob. how about pure str barb? maybe they want to do more damage instead of being forced to be a giant HP tank. pure str BM pretty much a 1 shot.
if you dont like the resistances on the armor you use then switch to AA HA. whine and complain all you want about its so unfair and archers/assassins get the short end of the stick while you have 400+ points into damage because you refuse to stat hp. you made the choice to give up survivability for damage. its not anyone elses fault.

you archers just seem to ignore that chezedude has 2x the amount of STR needed yet kills just as easily as the rest of you. can any of you pure archers do what he has done?

Sneakret - Heavens Tear

I quite like his video posts however the majority of players don't have the ability to dump in for +10 refines on all gears along with gems equipped into their armor.

my current build has 50 vit capped, then 1 str 4 dex from there and I have no severe issues with damage, but if my gear was not sharded heavily in physical defense I would by no means be off tanking my bh runs.

Arcane- soaks magic attack bosses from a distance
Heavy - soaks phys up close
Light - get some massive hp or chose a def to build upon, either way you can't take the hits like a purist of either of the other two. (maxed refines disregarded)

Quilue - Sanctuary

ChaseyLain - Lost City wrote: »

archer/assassins are the only classes that feel its their right to be able to put 100% of their points into damage then complain that they ever die. if a pure magic caster dies archers are the first ones to laugh and say lol add vit you 1 shot noob. how about pure str barb? maybe they want to do more damage instead of being forced to be a giant HP tank. pure str BM pretty much a 1 shot.
if you dont like the resistances on the armor you use then switch to AA HA. whine and complain all you want about its so unfair and archers/assassins get the short end of the stick while you have 400+ points into damage because you refuse to stat hp. you made the choice to give up survivability for damage. its not anyone elses fault.

you archers just seem to ignore that chezedude has 2x the amount of STR needed yet kills just as easily as the rest of you. can any of you pure archers do what he has done?

even if archers stat vit they have less stats to put into vit than caster classes. all Ast said is that light armor takes 1 point/lvl of a stat that is not your primary attribute while heavy and arcane takes 1/2. so even if robe goes full vit, they get 3 vit per 2 levels whereas a full vit archer build can only get 2 vit per 2 levels. also, arcanes can go 8mag 1str every 2 lvls, and cap vit at 50, that's as much magic as pure archers have dex.

a full str axe bm wouldn't be any more 1 shot than a 4path bm because they both have min vit without +stat gear. i know 9x 4 path bms with 8k+ hp buffed, 10k pdef and mdef with marrow mag on. 1 shot my ****.

lols at 2x the amount of str needed...does Cheze have 208 str now? they're called claws and fists. he lost under 50 dex (less cuz he probably has tomes and capes with +str) and has 8jun, so yes, he kills just as easily as the rest of us non-8jun archers. in fact, he lost less dex than vit archers.

WHY THE **** DO I KNOW MORE THAN YOU????

so ****ing ignorant. how the **** are you 9x????

ChaseyLain - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

you're an idiot. even if archers stat vit they have less stats to put into vit than caster classes. all Ast said is that light armor takes 1 point/lvl of a stat that is not your primary attribute while heavy and arcane takes 1/2. so even if robe goes full vit, they get 3 vit per 2 levels whereas a full vit archer build can only get 2 vit per 2 levels. also, arcanes can go 8mag 1str every 2 lvls, and cap vit at 50.

a full str axe bm wouldn't be any more 1 shot than a 4path bm because they both have min vit without +stat gear. i know 9x 4 path bms with 8k+ hp buffed, 10k pdef and mdef with marrow mag on. 1 shot my ****.

lols at 2x the amount of str needed...does Cheze have 208 str now? they're called claws and fists. he lost under 50 dex and has 8jun, so yes, he kills just as easily as the rest of us non-8jun archers.

so ****ing ignorant. how the **** are you 9x????

not even going to bother responding to most of that fail BR other than 1 thing.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 8JUN IN PWI. talking about other versions of pw is banable under tos genius.

Quilue - Sanctuary

LOLs at picking at **** that has nothing to do with anything because YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT. fail more

ChaseyLain - Lost City wrote: »

pure STR BM has no survivability at all unless they are hardcore refined.

HAHAHAHAHA of course low vit bms = pure strength.

ChaseyLain - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

LOLs at picking at **** that has nothing to do with anything because YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT. fail more



HAHAHAHAHA of course low vit bms = pure strength.

read the rest of it moron. selective quoting now? think thats an insult?

Lusca - Sanctuary

ChaseyLain - Lost City wrote: »

archer/assassins are the only classes that feel its their right to be able to put 100% of their points into damage then complain that they ever die. if a pure magic caster dies archers are the first ones to laugh and say lol add vit you 1 shot noob. how about pure str barb? maybe they want to do more damage instead of being forced to be a giant HP tank. pure str BM pretty much a 1 shot.
if you dont like the resistances on the armor you use then switch to AA HA. whine and complain all you want about its so unfair and archers/assassins get the short end of the stick while you have 400+ points into damage because you refuse to stat hp. you made the choice to give up survivability for damage. its not anyone elses fault.

you archers just seem to ignore that chezedude has 2x the amount of STR needed yet kills just as easily as the rest of you. can any of you pure archers do what he has done?

x.x wow i can't believe i am replying to this. . .

first it's not 100% of our points into damage, it would be 1 str 9 dex, str doesn't help our damage, 100% would be 5 dex every level
and a lot of wizards have more magic than archers and assassins have dex

Many arcane wearers do go 1 str 9 magic, because they get a much better hp boast off refines and shards than off vit

As for it always being an archer saying add vit you 1 shot noob, how is that even a valid point x.x
one archer =/= all archers, a wizard could say the exact same thing, that is the player not the class

If a barb didn't wanted to put most of his points into being a giant hp tank then maybe he should of rolled a DD class not a dam tank class lol

a pure str bm is a one shot? how the hell did you make it to 98 and know absolutely nothing about bms

archers and sins in AA or HA? lol sorry we don't have a nix to kill everything for us we actually have to focus on improving our damage

ChaseyLain - Lost City

Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »

x.x wow i can't believe i am replying to this. . .

first it's not 100% of our points into damage, it would be 1 str 9 dex, str doesn't help our damage, 100% would be 5 dex every level
and a lot of wizards have more magic than archers and assassins have dex

Many arcane wearers do go 1 str 9 magic, because they get a much better hp boast off refines and shards than off vit

As for it always being an archer saying add vit you 1 shot noob, how is that even a valid point x.x
one archer =/= all archers, a wizard could say the exact same thing, that is the player not the class

If a barb didn't wanted to put most of his points into being a giant hp tank then maybe he should of rolled a DD class not a dam tank class lol

a pure str bm is a one shot? how the hell did you make it to 98 and know absolutely nothing about bms

archers and sins in AA or HA? lol sorry we don't have a nix to kill everything for us we actually have to focus on improving our damage

those are all CHOICES that you made. you have the option of building your character however you want. if you would read people (archers) want more options of how to build their character for equips yet any other class who might not want to follow their (archers) ideal of how any other class should be built is a fail or a moron. why should a barb be forced to stat pure vit instead of str? oh and 100% of stats into damage is every stat after equip minimums. if you LA classes want more damage go refine your weapon to +12 or quit complaining.

Sneakret - Heavens Tear

if you LA classes want more damage go refine your weapon to +12 or quit complaining.

So even if it was the other way around and it was more armor for less dmg, somehow I still see you complaining. I really don't care as to the flames going on between this again either. It's a simple question as to whether the armor is something that can be considered, why it should be, why it should not be.

Try a few of the classes out, and play them for yourself with different set ups. As far as the barb goes, hell with the hp he gets per lvl and per refine, fine with me if he goes full str. But the end justifies the means in this case where he will not often be chosen to tank for bosses like krimson beyond, pole, world bosses, and TT runs. It's depressing that it is that way, and hey look a diversity in armor would even adjust that for our fuzzy meatshield friends.

The same applies to a DD position as well, why would a squad inv an archer wiz or sin that went another route for protection or vit when they can just add another cleric or veno that give more benefits along with more dmg.

anwynd

wow suprised this hasnt goten closed yet any how this idea is intristing could be handyb:victory

Reikara - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

A magic based class has armor with high mag requirements and low str. Str based classes have high str armor with low dex. How come there is no high dex armor? LA is the worst armor in the game since it has the highest requitement of a useless stat and the lowest combined resist. Vit builds with archers are fail since there are so few points available. By the end of the game LA classes are 50 points behind the other classes.

Maybe they should switvh arcane to be 1mag / 1str every level as well.

I beleive this is to nerf the crit rate of the archers and sins, since both classes are maintstream dex with the only variant being vit builds.

Every 20 points of dex will = 1% crit, considering other crit add ons you can acquire, if one were able to wear armour with a lower str requirement than possible at the moment, archers and sins could be ending up with 40% or more.

You might take to that idea being on yourself, but it'd certainly throw things out of balance and we'd never need for barbs as holding aggro would become impossbile xD


The idea of this "Chain mail" armour or whatever it's being called, is interesting, i've been reading some of the points coming up and i'm a little unsure of how it would work.

At the moment, say I wanted to boost my magic resistances which are quite poor, I could boost them by simply using a cape of taurancheiftan, and elemental rings and belts, such as other molds that also add mag res, and refining them. However the con to this is that these items are not particually affordable.

Perhaps this can offer a better comprimise to those who enjoy these classes, but also appreciate the extra survability.

Gri - Lost City

If you want higher physical resistance use a physical necklace/belt and refine your might rings.

I don't see there being any problem with the gears currently available.