A question about aggro and wizards

Arma_Geddon - Heavens Tear

Okay I can't find anything regarding aggro and wizards on the forums so here is my question...

When I do FB or HH with people equal to my level or below I steal aggro from whoever is tanking almost all of the time. The only time I really don't is when there is a lvl90+ tank with us, and even then I do sometimes. Now my question is whether or not I'm doing something wrong or I simply can't help but take aggro...

I've heard from both friends and people on the forums state that I'm not suppose to take aggro and if I do I'm not playing my wizard right! I've also heard that if I'm not stealing aggro I'm doing something wrong! Would someone who knows what he/she is talking about please clarify my role as a wizard in a party, so I can tell whoever it is to gtfo, go read the damn forums and learn something.

Thank you and Merry Christmas.

IDaun - Raging Tide

Merry Christmas

Stealing aggro=bad. Don't go all out if you're stealing aggro while doing so (though, having the potential to do enough damage to steal aggro is awesome. xD) Try starting out with low damage spells then working up to your big ones/sparks after the boss/mob is getting low-er in HP. Works for me.

Now. If you can tank the mob, it's a bit different. Like for magic bosses. But tell the cleric if you'll be taking aggro, and make sure you can handle it.

wnight

If you can't steal agro = you fail as wizard since it's good indicator to see how well is your build developed.

However playing in party you do everything in order to AVOID such thing aka agro steal unless forced to do so in order to save party till main tank regains control over situation.

Bottom line before trying any checking "stunts" gain full approvement from party for such things.b:bye

storehammy

b:avoid
......
pitfall/crown of flame be your friend.
b:chuckle
and don't be afraid to not attack for a while.
and there be other stuff you can do like...cast morning dew a few times on the tank.
XD

Xegeth - Dreamweaver

To be honest, I became really careless with stealing aggro when I know I can handle the boss and will not wipe my squad. I got this attitude coz I refuse to hold back when I worked so hard for my damage potential. I would much rather risk to take aggro a few times and kill the boss faster than just spamming level one pittfall and crown of flames.. If I am DDing at Polearm for example it is a different story of course.

But I find it ridiculous to get flamed for taking aggro, when the only thing that happens is that my charm ticks once or twice, in the worst case...

Ursa - Dreamweaver

only FB I don't want to take aggro is 69: Polearm and Gaurnob. First the debuff and then the AOE that can **** some squishies(FAC, lol)/tabber.
Every other FB from 19-89 included I don't have any problems to tank any of the bosses, so I just go all-out. Ofc, I usually tell ppl I will steal aggro so the cleric doesn't get caught by surprise.Ppl I ran fbs/BHs with already know if I'm in there is no tank needed, so it goes by default I'm the tank . I think I tanked the full Eden last 3 BH runs I got there, after I got into squad no one bothered to look for a BM/Barb, they just filled with whoever wanted to share wine costs. Brim I never tried actually...hmm...

Arma_Geddon - Heavens Tear

Cool, so if I'm capable of holding aggro and not dying I can just go all out with my dd. So I guess it's totally up to me if I want to steal aggro or not huh? I'm not wrong for stealing aggro and I'm not wrong for not wanting aggro. My discretion?

Xegeth - Dreamweaver

If you can handle it, just do it. In most of the cases it is either the "pride" of the barb who does not want to be replaced by the wizard tank or the picture of the squishy mage that a lot of people still have. In both cases it is not your fault. It is actually faster if you go all out and the barb DDs as well. So if you steal aggro in fb59 the next time and get annoyed for it, just tell them you can tank better than any barb and they should deal with their prejudices or gtfo.

IDaun - Raging Tide

I can't stress how important it is to warn the cleric or the rest of the squad beforehand. I play a cleric, and I've had wizzies rip aggro just 'cause they could. I didn't heal them, and let them die, then proceeded to heal the one we had decided to let tank.

It's not just your decision to take aggro or not. You're talking about the entire squad. Just ripping aggro 'cause you can is what gives wizzies a bad name (yes, wizzies do have a bad name. At least, worse than most of the other classes. Varies by person, though.)

Even if you can tank it without heals-- LET THE SQUAD KNOW. It's just common courtesy.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Having the biggest DD in squad being the tank is actually a relief for all the squad members and also more fun than to pace your dmg not to steal aggro and get yourself and others killed. In the end, everyone wants to get tha **** of a boss dead, so as long as a DD is tank, that's gonna happen very fast

Ursa - Dreamweaver

IDaun - Raging Tide wrote: »

I can't stress how important it is to warn the cleric or the rest of the squad beforehand. I play a cleric, and I've had wizzies rip aggro just 'cause they could. I didn't heal them, and let them die, then proceeded to heal the one we had decided to let tank.

that's cocky and careless. How about the DDs feeling not to DD and let the barb do the whole dmg and pay for repair and you get your MP charm/MP apoth *****? Or you usually do the IH spam while AFK with a penny stuck in the hotkey?

It's not just your decision to take aggro or not. You're talking about the entire squad. Just ripping aggro 'cause you can is what gives wizzies a bad name (yes, wizzies do have a bad name. At least, worse than most of the other classes. Varies by person, though.)

wizzies have bad names since when? since u decide what's good or what's bad for a squad? or you're in a position to repair someone's mistake and u choose not to because...well...you just feel like it?

Even if you can tank it without heals-- LET THE SQUAD KNOW. It's just common courtesy.

That's what I said before. Ppl that know me already know what I can do. The others I let them know in advance what's gonna happen.

IDaun - Raging Tide

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

that's cocky and careless. How about the DDs feeling not to DD and let the barb do the whole dmg and pay for repair and you get your MP charm/MP apoth *****? Or you usually do the IH spam while AFK with a penny stuck in the hotkey?


wizzies have bad names since when? since u decide what's good or what's bad for a squad? or you're in a position to repair someone's mistake and u choose not to because...well...you just feel like it?

That's what I said before. Ppl that know me already know what I can do. The others I let them know in advance what's gonna happen.

I don't really care if wizzies tank. I know a wizzie can tank. Hell, as I said before (in another thread, though) I prefer alternate tanks to barbs (just because I've squadded with so many fail barbs). But if you guys decide not to tell and instead just rip aggro--well, it's your 'discretion' not to tell, it's mine not to heal.

As for wizzies having bad names-- I asked my fact what their least favorite class to squad with was (a few days ago). Wizzies was one of the top ones-- for their cocky attitude and their 'don't f'ing get in my way or stop me from attacking' attitude (that's what a few of them said, not me). I know not all of them are like that, but, considering some of the responses ("If you can handle it, just do it.") I can see how people got that opinion of wizzies.

I can tell if you got aggro on purpose or on accident (you keep attacking if you got it on purpose). If the person stops attacking, or took it after they made precautions NOT to take it... THAT's a mistake. Not taking it on purpose. I don't fix f-ups that happened just 'cause someone 'could'. I try to fix mistakes.

You have more than enough time before we go in for the boss to go, "Hey, mind if I tank?" Instead of just assuming that the cleric can handle it and respond to it in time. THAT's what I was talking about. Once again, if you tell me first, I don't really care who tanks (as long as I can handle healing them).

And I wish I could afk IH. My keyboard is so crappy it pops keys off if I try that. >>

Belheldar - Harshlands

What level do you need to be if you wanted to tank an fb/bh....I mean I have unrefined and "ok" armor and only 1860 hp(LA mage). I know that if I decided to tank I would die within two shots, which cant be fun for any cleric

BrownflameZ - Lost City

IDaun - Raging Tide wrote: »

I don't really care if wizzies tank. I know a wizzie can tank. Hell, as I said before (in another thread, though) I prefer alternate tanks to barbs (just because I've squadded with so many fail barbs). But if you guys decide not to tell and instead just rip aggro--well, it's your 'discretion' not to tell, it's mine not to heal.

As for wizzies having bad names-- I asked my fact what their least favorite class to squad with was (a few days ago). Wizzies was one of the top ones-- for their cocky attitude and their 'don't f'ing get in my way or stop me from attacking' attitude (that's what a few of them said, not me). I know not all of them are like that, but, considering some of the responses ("If you can handle it, just do it.") I can see how people got that opinion of wizzies.

I can tell if you got aggro on purpose or on accident (you keep attacking if you got it on purpose). If the person stops attacking, or took it after they made precautions NOT to take it... THAT's a mistake. Not taking it on purpose. I don't fix f-ups that happened just 'cause someone 'could'. I try to fix mistakes.

You have more than enough time before we go in for the boss to go, "Hey, mind if I tank?" Instead of just assuming that the cleric can handle it and respond to it in time. THAT's what I was talking about. Once again, if you tell me first, I don't really care who tanks (as long as I can handle healing them).

And I wish I could afk IH. My keyboard is so crappy it pops keys off if I try that. >>

Thats a pretty block of text.
If you can't respond quickly to heal, your a fail cleric.
If you can't keep aggro, your a fail barb.
If you can't nuke the **** out of things, your a fail mage.

Do your god damn jobs.

Baragg - Heavens Tear

I am a wizzy and have stolen agro a time or two but I am learning and had a cleric tell me not to use skills that were the mobs weakness. If a mob is weak against water dont use those skills and I would draw agro less. Seems to be workin so far.

Albester - Sanctuary

This may be helpful: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

IDaun - Raging Tide wrote: »

I can't stress how important it is to warn the cleric or the rest of the squad beforehand. I play a cleric, and I've had wizzies rip aggro just 'cause they could. I didn't heal them, and let them die, then proceeded to heal the one we had decided to let tank.

I hope one day you will steal aggro from tank just by healing him and die from it. I hate "healbots" like you who aren't capable of doing anything except spamming Ironheart on barb.

-_-"

Xegeth - Dreamweaver

IDaun - Raging Tide wrote: »

As for wizzies having bad names-- I asked my fact what their least favorite class to squad with was (a few days ago). Wizzies was one of the top ones-- for their cocky attitude and their 'don't f'ing get in my way or stop me from attacking' attitude (that's what a few of them said, not me). I know not all of them are like that, but, considering some of the responses ("If you can handle it, just do it.") I can see how people got that opinion of wizzies.

Ok, since you quote me here I give my opinion on that. You have never squadded with me and so you can't even have an opinion. I am trying to do what is best for my squad, I save clerics and other people by sealing/sleeping mobs that aggro, I even shoot ulties on crowds to take all the aggro so that the cleric survives. I did get a thank you for that more than once. But since I am flexible in squads, I expect everyone else to be flexible as well. I don't intend to take aggro on bosses, but since it is only natural that the squad wants the boss down as fast as possible, I go all out (If I don't risk wiping the squad). And if the barb cannot hold aggro against me and I can tank the boss just fine i EXPECT the people to deal with the new situation. That means I get the heals and the barb switches to DD form. If I am sure the barb cannot hold aggro, I ask to tank the boss before the fight, of course. But when I expect the barb to hold aggro and he obviously can't, people have to rethink the strategy during the fight. Of course I could just back off and let the barb tank, but why the hell? If I write "heals please, let me tank", isn't that warning enough? Once again: I refuse to keep my damage low just to satisfy the ego of some tank. If it's faster with me tanking and I don't risk a squad wipe, I insist on tanking. That is neither recless, not selfish. But it requires that everyone is able to change the strategy during a boss find. And honestly, that should be possible... And it is, I never got complains in squad.

EDIT:

Baragg - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I am a wizzy and have stolen agro a time or two but I am learning and had a cleric tell me not to use skills that were the mobs weakness. If a mob is weak against water dont use those skills and I would draw agro less. Seems to be workin so far.

Yea, great advise.... You could also attack with fists, then you were even elss likely to pull aggro. Sure, if you are that uber that every earth spell on polearm draws aggro, don't do it... But otherwise? Those are the same people that take a second cleric to FC or TT because of the safety. Honestly, I rather pay the cleric every single Guardian scroll used in the run (if the squad let's the cleric die...) than spending at least 30 more minutes than necessary in that dungeon. Stop being so extreme catious no risk no fun.

NonameWiz - Sanctuary

If you accidently steal agro, best thing is stop attacking for a few mins, un-equip your weapon.

Or before a boss fight, wait till its hp drops down 80-90% then you can start attacking.

It can depend on how your barb's doing too, I sometimes TRY to steal agro from my barb on purpose but the mob just doesn't come to me at all. b:dirty

IDaun - Raging Tide

/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »

I hope one day you will steal aggro from tank just by healing him and die from it. I hate "healbots" like you who aren't capable of doing anything except spamming Ironheart on barb.

-_-"

My god, just because I say that you should tell the damn cleric before ripping aggro or tell the squad before the boss that you wanna tank, I'm suddenly a healbot that only heals barbs? Wow, just wow.

Get a little respect for your cleric and tell the squad that you'll be taking aggro. Better yet, how about this-- tell the squad you want to tank before you go in? That is ALL I'm saying. That's all I have been saying this entire topic.

In fact, now that I think about it, it is counterproductive to not warn the squad beforehand. If you warn the squad, they will KNOW how to deal with the boss and you tanking the entire time. It makes everything easier. But then again, what would I know, huh? I'm just a spambot that doesn't know how to heal anything other than barbs, right?

@Xegeth-- you warn them, that's fine. I took your post as "Just do it"-- as in, just rip aggro (like I've seen many wizzies do before on magic bosses just 'cause they can) without warning. I was merely stressing how you should WARN the cleric, warn the rest of the squad. It would probably be better to tell the squad before the boss itself... just saying, it's a squad effort to take down a boss, and decisions aren't just yours.

Xegeth - Dreamweaver

Well, ulti is like last resort, cause I don't have to get there, the area of effect is huge, I can guarantee I have aggro after the hit and I might have a chance of getting rid of the mobs without dying... But if it has to be fast i use phoenix or hailstorm as well.

@IDaun: I don't warn my squad if I think the barb can tank and wants to. If it is obvious the barb cannot hold aggro (Like a lvl 70 barb) I will ask for the tanking. But if the Barb is above a certain level, I usually think he knows how to do his job. Like using some extra aggro skills when I sage spark etc. If he does not know it... Then read my last post. ^^

Ishmah - Sanctuary

You know you can steal aggro....the group knows you can steal aggro so there's nothing to prove.

Let the tank get aggro and switch into cruise mode.

• Fire off some nukes and chat....fire off some more then chat, take your time.
• Maybe switch down a weapon (I like my blue one - nice color)...set up Dragon's Breath & chat.
• As in a group, switch out of major damage gear into low damage hp++ & pdef gear to do less damage.
• If it's a magic mob you know you can tank, then tell the tank you're going to take the boss off them b:laugh...and go for it.

Amouriv - Dreamweaver

If you are a wiz and you steal aggro you are fail as a DD. Your job as a DD is to not steal aggro but to deal high damage without causing your party a headache. My wizard rarely steals aggro because i learned how to control my aggro. The only times i ever steal aggro is those beautiful moments when i get 5+ crits in a row. With 14% crit, its gonna happen sooner or later b:surrender

Hyden_Brook - Heavens Tear

IDaun - Raging Tide wrote: »

My god, just because I say that you should tell the damn cleric before ripping aggro or tell the squad before the boss that you wanna tank, I'm suddenly a healbot that only heals barbs? Wow, just wow.

Get a little respect for your cleric and tell the squad that you'll be taking aggro. Better yet, how about this-- tell the squad you want to tank before you go in? That is ALL I'm saying. That's all I have been saying this entire topic.

In fact, now that I think about it, it is counterproductive to not warn the squad beforehand. If you warn the squad, they will KNOW how to deal with the boss and you tanking the entire time. It makes everything easier. But then again, what would I know, huh? I'm just a spambot that doesn't know how to heal anything other than barbs, right?

@Xegeth-- you warn them, that's fine. I took your post as "Just do it"-- as in, just rip aggro (like I've seen many wizzies do before on magic bosses just 'cause they can) without warning. I was merely stressing how you should WARN the cleric, warn the rest of the squad. It would probably be better to tell the squad before the boss itself... just saying, it's a squad effort to take down a boss, and decisions aren't just yours.

I read somewhere before, that squading with my class is not desired because of our aggro management.

True enough, during my solo grinds, I grinded mostly alone 99.9% most of the time. When I enter BHs, while squading with another wizzard, he had blantant disregard for aggro and got himself killed once before boss.

At boss fight, the said wizard started nuking as soon as the barb hit the boss. So what happens next... it's pretty clear.... I managed to run out of the instance so as not to lose the exp I have grinded so hard for.

Ok, I did not nuke the boss after I saw him do that... while boss chases everyone down, I shrinked distance and ran out...

Seriously, there's no way I'm gonna lose my exp because of this ****. I left squad. Now i have experienced it myself that i'm undesirable class and I'm only this level <--- I have to suffer for others mistake... wtf mages....

Yes, you got big damages, but can you watch the frequency of your nukes ?

Yes, we can tank too, but wth, the barb exist to tank and you take away his job... should there be slight respect?

Yes, we can nuke big time, but can we notify the cleric first we we attempt stunts? gawd... what is wrong with people these days? b:angry

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

If you steal agro. It's not so big deal. Just STOP attacking. This is very important. Sometimes it happen. I also sometimes steal agro, if barb is not there and I critic. Just stop attacking and use your healing stuff. Or FOW and shrink away. BM should catch it. If not you have to come back with boss. :-)) It depend on situation.

CrashmanOl - Dreamweaver

Ehh... I've stolen aggro, survived. People know it happens with wizzy's sometime no matter what they do. Shrot of taking off your weapon and fist punching a boss that doesn't aoe your bound to steal aggro once in a while. But yeah waiting till the boss has been hit a few times before you start nuking tends to help. i waited for them to start the boss, see about a 1/8th drop in hp then just went nuke crazy. Barb was actually smart enough to keep using his aggro control skill so i didn't pull the boss. though i did the next run when i crit three times in a row for almost 10k each crit or more. you can't control when you crit and hey it happens, people know this. and every cleric i've ever partied with loves having me runnin with them. I'm crazy, and psycotic and push barbs to move faster at times. I have a Zeal Genie and help pull mobs when i need to. but all in all, i survive. the party survives (except the one time an idiot decided in fb 39 to run into the whole group of ladywraiths thinking he was invincible) because guess what, we know how to play our classes
b:victory

Fizzban - Dreamweaver

Personally I think the only failers are those who play without respect for their team and those who cant adjust on the fly according to how things play out. If any character steals aggro the rest should be able to adjust accordingly with little fuss. But I agree, if you know you are likely to steal aggro then let the cleric know (ideally tell everyone) before hand so they are better prepared. All this BS about you fail if you aggro or you fail if you don't...whatever.

Xegeth - Dreamweaver

Amouriv - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you are a wiz and you steal aggro you are fail as a DD.

Sorry, but saying that is just as generalized and ignorant as saying. "If someone in the squad dies, the cleric is fail" or "If the barb does not take aggro of every mob aggroed by accident in an instant, he is fail".
Usually there should be no problem for a barb your level to keep aggro, since they have enough aggro skills. Of course, if you behave stupid and attack before the barb it may happen anyway. Still I'd rather take aggro 1 or 2 times during the bossfight than wait with attacking till 50% or just use my DoT attacks most of the time. I mean, what's the big deal when Linus turns to me and shots one or two fireballs at me instead of the barb? Who cares? Do I fail because of that? I even use my Pyroshell before the fight, coz I know it can happen.

The most important thing in any squad issue is that you always know what you are doing. That you don't act mindlessly. That is important for every class. A tank shouldn't always use a macro and go afk. The barbs I squad with usually just use Roar or Alpha Male when I steal aggro or spark, and everything is fine. Then there is the cleric who shouldn't just IH the boss and go afk. Same applies for every other member in the squad. I almost never die stealing aggro, even if the cleric refuses to heal me.

BrownflameZ - Lost City

Amouriv - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you are a wiz and you steal aggro you are fail as a DD. Your job as a DD is to not steal aggro but to deal high damage without causing your party a headache. My wizard rarely steals aggro because i learned how to control my aggro. The only times i ever steal aggro is those beautiful moments when i get 5+ crits in a row. With 14% crit, its gonna happen sooner or later b:surrender

LOLWUT?
I've seen alot of stupidity around this forum, but damn.
It's kinda obvious a pure int mage or an Archer will steal aggro sooner or later.
Its called Bite. You do realize "DDing and Stealing aggro" goes hand in hand.

If aggro is lost, its the barbs fault. Unless you have a BM tanking (For whatever stupid reason), even then just spamming gush and pyro alone gets aggro. Pitfall + crown of flames ftw?

IDaun - Raging Tide wrote: »

My god, just because I say that you should tell the damn cleric before ripping aggro or tell the squad before the boss that you wanna tank, I'm suddenly a healbot that only heals barbs? Wow, just wow.

Get a little respect for your cleric and tell the squad that you'll be taking aggro. Better yet, how about this-- tell the squad you want to tank before you go in? That is ALL I'm saying. That's all I have been saying this entire topic.

In fact, now that I think about it, it is counterproductive to not warn the squad beforehand. If you warn the squad, they will KNOW how to deal with the boss and you tanking the entire time. It makes everything easier. But then again, what would I know, huh? I'm just a spambot that doesn't know how to heal anything other than barbs, right?

@Xegeth-- you warn them, that's fine. I took your post as "Just do it"-- as in, just rip aggro (like I've seen many wizzies do before on magic bosses just 'cause they can) without warning. I was merely stressing how you should WARN the cleric, warn the rest of the squad. It would probably be better to tell the squad before the boss itself... just saying, it's a squad effort to take down a boss, and decisions aren't just yours.

Isn't it kind of obvious depending on level diffrence that a mage or archer will steal aggro in the duration?

It's pretty common sense, lol.

IDaun - Raging Tide

BrownflameZ - Lost City wrote: »

LOLWUT?
I've seen alot of stupidity around this forum, but damn.
It's kinda obvious a pure int mage or an Archer will steal aggro sooner or later.
Its called Bite. You do realize "DDing and Stealing aggro" goes hand in hand.

If aggro is lost, its the barbs fault. Unless you have a BM tanking (For whatever stupid reason), even then just spamming gush and pyro alone gets aggro. Pitfall + crown of flames ftw?



Isn't it kind of obvious depending on level diffrence that a mage or archer will steal aggro in the duration?

It's pretty common sense, lol.

Then either ask to tank or don't attack, if stealing aggro is inevitable. b:cute

Really, simple formula. If you know you're gonna steal aggro, and you don't take precautions to make it easier on the squad, it is NOT the tank's fault. Just as if you steal aggro and die-- it's not the cleric's.

Since you're on here making comments like, 'stealing aggro is inevitable'... you know it is. You're not ignorant of it, apparently. So why in the world would you not alter how you play to make it easier on everyone in your squad? Isn't that what a mmo is for? Teamwork?

Whoo, wizzies can do damage. We know that. But it is your responsibility to keep your damage low or let everyone know you will tank. Those are your only two options. Tell everyone, or just deal with less attack power.

A lowbie example-- BH/FB39. If you're attacking the boss, and an archer steals aggro on Farren. Farren, of course, goes crazy with his phys AoEs when he is tanked ranged. Squad wipe occurs. Who's fault is that? By your logic, it's the tank's fault for not keeping aggro. I don't get your logic.

I have a low-ish wizzie. I have only stolen aggro on one boss. Whether it was a BM 10 levels under me tanking or a barb, I know how much damage I can do before I overdo it. It's your responsibility to know the same, and use that knowledge.

Damaged - Lost City

Letting the DD tank is for cool people

And lol @ bad dd stealing aggro, by being amazing at dealing damage you end up stealing aggro, gtfo back to habbo hotel