Query: Demon Ironwood

Mamiko_mao - Sanctuary
Mamiko_mao - Sanctuary Posts: 115 Arc User
edited December 2009 in Venomancer
This is for anyone with Demon Ironwood learned.

I read the skill book description saying that 'It has a 20% chance of success, but reduces target physical defence by 100%'.

My question is, will Demon Ironwood STILL debuff a mob's phys def by 30% with every attack, and have a 20% chance of 100% debuff, or will it NOT work 80% of the time at all?

This may affect my decision to go demon/sage. Please answer candidly. Thank you! b:pleased
Post edited by Mamiko_mao - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    no, the debuff doesnt work 80% of the time, it rarely goes off at that.the first time ive seen it work though (yesterday) was pretty amazing though. its really a gambler's kind of skill.

    sage is way more consistent in it moves, and works wonderfully in TW/support. id recommend doing it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    In TW if you have multiple demon venos using demon ironwood on a target, the armor break is nearly guaranteed, while sage will just do bog standard debuff.

    Same if you have other demon venos in your party in a TT/FB/w/e.

    Since its a spammy skill, I don't see how its "rare" at all, even at 20% it happens pretty frequently.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Armor break is a lot more effective against other players than against mobs.

    Most mobs have a measly 1k-3k pdef, representing only 30%-45% damage reduction at level 90. Sage's 40% debuff would increase damage by 13%-22%. Demon's 100% debuff would increase damage by 42%-83%. In terms of average effectiveness (i.e. factoring in times when Demon Ironwood does nothing), Sage is a 13%-22% damage increase while Demon is a 8%-17% increase.

    Totally different story against a player with 10k pdef. That's 73.5% damage reduction at level 90. Sage's debuff would increase damage by 42%. Demon's debuff would increase damage by 278% (yes, nearly quadruple). In terms of average effectiveness, Sage is a 42% damage increase while Demon is a 56% increase. So for higher pdef targets, the advantage swings in favor of Demon Ironwood.

    Also keep in mind that both the level 79 skill Myriad Rainbows can also break armor at about the same rate as Demon Ironwood. Downsides are it costs 800 mana and has a 20 sec cooldown. Upsides are it's available to both Sage and Demon venos, is instant cast, and can also do a mind break (reduce mdef to zero) and apply two DoTs.

    Edit: Since multiple demon venos was brought up, here are the chances of the target getting armor break based on number of demon venos casting it:

    1 veno: 20%
    2 venos: 36%
    3 venos: 49%
    4 venos: 59%
    5 venos: 67%
    6 venos: 74%
    10 venos: 89%
    15 venos: 96%
  • Mamiko_mao - Sanctuary
    Mamiko_mao - Sanctuary Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    no, the debuff doesnt work 80% of the time, it rarely goes off at that.the first time ive seen it work though (yesterday) was pretty amazing though. its really a gambler's kind of skill.

    sage is way more consistent in it moves, and works wonderfully in TW/support. id recommend doing it.

    Er, I meant it would NOT work 80% of the time.

    Anyways, to everyone who replied, thanks! So it basically means this skill, if I get it, is hit or miss. Hm.... time to ponder my future veno.

    I'm a PvE veno, so opinions on what I should get are welcome. I WAS gonna go Demon, but the Ironwood debate has put me on the fence. b:cry
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Well, you don't have to take every available skill - you could stick with the normal ironwood if you prefer a smaller, but more reliable, armour break - whilst still getting whichever demon skills you do fancy?

    Another thing to consider is that there's usually other people in a squad able to armour break - so as long as they know to hold off until your demon either wears off or misses, you should still have SOME armour break.


    Interesting question - what happens in the following situation?
    1. Some barb or cleric or wizard or whoever the heck maybe with a genie or another pet or whatever, slaps on a 16% armour break.
    2. You cast demon - and it misses.

    Does it CLEAR the existing debuff (as though overwriting) or does it leave the existing one there?
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Well, you don't have to take every available skill - you could stick with the normal ironwood if you prefer a smaller, but more reliable, armour break - whilst still getting whichever demon skills you do fancy?
    You lose a lot of damage if you do that.

    Level 10 Ironwood: 106.9 mana, base magic attack + 300% weapon damage + 1327.7 damage
    Sage/Demon Ironwood: 175 mana, base magic attack + 300% weapon damage + 2770 damage

    Though I suppose for the reduced mana consumption it may be worth it. The extra 1440 damage is about a 10%-15% increase by that level while the mana cost is 63% higher.
  • Accelerated - Sanctuary
    Accelerated - Sanctuary Posts: 1,048 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    ...

    Interesting question - what happens in the following situation?
    1. Some barb or cleric or wizard or whoever the heck maybe with a genie or another pet or whatever, slaps on a 16% armour break.
    2. You cast demon - and it misses.

    Does it CLEAR the existing debuff (as though overwriting) or does it leave the existing one there?

    Leaves the existing debuff. Since the debuff didn't activate at all, there's no way it can overwrite a preexisting debuff.
    For example; if you placed a little mustard on a sandwich and then placed no mustard at all, doesn't the little mustard stay on the sandwich?
    Mamiko_mao - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Er, I meant it would NOT work 80% of the time.

    Anyways, to everyone who replied, thanks! So it basically means this skill, if I get it, is hit or miss. Hm.... time to ponder my future veno.

    I'm a PvE veno, so opinions on what I should get are welcome. I WAS gonna go Demon, but the Ironwood debate has put me on the fence. b:cry

    I'm pretty sure that if a demon ironwood procs, the target takes 100% physical damage, including PvP and PvE. So a boss in TT would take 100% damage from physical DD's and from your pet. I'm not sure, though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ♥ - 藤林 杏-様 - ♥
    ♥ Kyou Fujibayashi-sama ♥
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Accelerated - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Leaves the existing debuff. Since the debuff didn't activate at all, there's no way it can overwrite a preexisting debuff.
    For example; if you placed a little mustard on a sandwich and then placed no mustard at all, doesn't the little mustard stay on the sandwich?

    Oh sure, that's the sensible way for it to work. But expecting this game to act the sensible way isn't always a good bet. Another obvious way for it to whave worked would be for it to apply the debuff but with either the normal, or a zero duration (so instantly removing itself, but would have had the side effect of overwriting the earlier debuff)

    If demon ironwood doesn't overwrite an earlier debuff on failure then it's got to be pretty tempting. Wasn't considering the whole "just plain do more damage" but yeah, that's pretty important; since my normal casting cycle has one in four casts be ironwood...
  • Waterfal - Sanctuary
    Waterfal - Sanctuary Posts: 2,723 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    isn't sage's armourbreak weaker then the cleric one :/ ? I think I read that somewhere.
    I will go demon, ironwood does pretty nice damage, I wouldn't want to hold it back when a cleric has used it's armor break spell...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks Silvychar for the awesome sig :3

    Characters:
    waterfal - lvl 90 demon ferrari veno
    Hazumi_chan - lvl 9x sage seeker
  • Momento - Heavens Tear
    Momento - Heavens Tear Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    You shouldnt be relying on demon ironwood to go off unless its a long fight. Just think of it as free kill. When it goes off, people die. And if it happens to be the first shot of the fight, you just won that much quicker. But like some people have already said, its a gamblers skill. But dont forget that you also have 2 myraid rainbows that also have armor break so you do have a good chance. Just keep debuffing until the status effect you like appears.


    But i dont think anything is as satisfying as watching them take 6k damage per second from your nix.


    and using mana consumption as a reason for not upgrading skills is just lame
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Waterfal - Sanctuary wrote: »
    isn't sage's armourbreak weaker then the cleric one :/ ? I think I read that somewhere.
    I will go demon, ironwood does pretty nice damage, I wouldn't want to hold it back when a cleric has used it's armor break spell...

    Regular cleric dimensional seal has a 30% debuff, just like regular Ironwood. Sage/Demon cleric dimensional seal is 40% just like Sage Ironwood.

    It's Barb Devour which is better - 50% at level 10. But barbs I've talked to said they generally have enough chi to use Devour, or to hold aggro, not both. So you'd only have to hold back on Ironwood if the barb is not tanking and wants to be in tiger form instead of humanoid form for maximum damage (generally when they want to interrupt a boss which casts).
  • Mamiko_mao - Sanctuary
    Mamiko_mao - Sanctuary Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Hm. @Momento: My primary use for Demon Ironwood is actually in most instances (TT/FB/FC), where a flying pet is impossible. And anyway I can't afford one (not if I want my demon skills anyway). T_T

    @Solandri: Good point. I COULD use Lending Hand to help the barb, but its cooldown means it's only good for a short while.

    @Vitenka: That's the thing. I fancy an equal number of skills on both Demon and Sage, and Ironwood is the only skill that pushes me in either direction.

    I guess it comes down to a preference for the Veno's own DPS abilities vs. the squad's benefits of a demon ironwood. If I had 2 archers doing DPS (which is a regular thing in my faction) or 1 archer/1 BM and 1 barb tank, that sudden debuff might be a good thing assuming aggro isn't stolen. *ponders some more*
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Mamiko_mao - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Hm. @Momento: My primary use for Demon Ironwood is actually in most instances (TT/FB/FC), where a flying pet is impossible. And anyway I can't afford one (not if I want my demon skills anyway). T_T

    @Solandri: Good point. I COULD use Lending Hand to help the barb, but its cooldown means it's only good for a short while.

    @Vitenka: That's the thing. I fancy an equal number of skills on both Demon and Sage, and Ironwood is the only skill that pushes me in either direction.

    I guess it comes down to a preference for the Veno's own DPS abilities vs. the squad's benefits of a demon ironwood. If I had 2 archers doing DPS (which is a regular thing in my faction) or 1 archer/1 BM and 1 barb tank, that sudden debuff might be a good thing assuming aggro isn't stolen. *ponders some more*

    However, do not forget that you already get 2 other skills with that same skill and same chance of it happening, both myriads have a 20% chance of a armor break, on top of a 20% chance of a mind break, and 20% each for the DOT skills. And you can get lucky and have all of them hit at the same time.
    The demon ironwood benefit would be the same as those 2 skills, meaning you would have 3 skills that had the exact same chance to do the exact same thing. Sage ironwood would give you the guaranteed 30% for 20 seconds, and you could still try to play the chance game with the two myriad skills.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Damewort - Sanctuary
    Damewort - Sanctuary Posts: 573 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Message only to Mamiko_mao:
    Go Sage. Soul Degeneration is great on bosses (even though it makes archers less useful). All chi saving skills and Master Li's Technique will mean that you almost all the time will have full chi.
    Besides, Sage and Demon veno is squad is great combination. The same Ironwood Scarab. While Sage can keep its phys.defence debuffed all the time, Demon veno continues to throw ironwoods till it manages to reduce phys.def to zero. Makes it 40%-40%-100%-40%. Something similar goes for Amplify Damage: 30% debuff for 20sec, then 25% debuff for 26sec.

    Talking about archers in squads... They dont benefit from Demon Ironwood, in my opinion. Before lvl90, L still managed to steal aggro in TT from my herc just by using -int gears or triple sparking. I am afraid that with long lasting armour break archers would steal aggro, expecially if they hit a critical hit. Maybe TTs wouldnt be that big problems as running FBs. Archers already steal aggro from hercs there even without Demon Ironwood. Drop in Myriad Rainbow's armor break for 9sec, then Demon Ironwood's armour break for 20sec (?) and you will probably win the game "Let's kill the archer".

    Message for others: Decide basing on your playstyle ^^ I prefered Demon
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Armor break is a lot more effective against other players than against mobs.

    Most mobs have a measly 1k-3k pdef, representing only 30%-45% damage reduction at level 90. Sage's 40% debuff would increase damage by 13%-22%. Demon's 100% debuff would increase damage by 42%-83%. In terms of average effectiveness (i.e. factoring in times when Demon Ironwood does nothing), Sage is a 13%-22% damage increase while Demon is a 8%-17% increase.

    Totally different story against a player with 10k pdef. That's 73.5% damage reduction at level 90. Sage's debuff would increase damage by 42%. Demon's debuff would increase damage by 278% (yes, nearly quadruple). In terms of average effectiveness, Sage is a 42% damage increase while Demon is a 56% increase. So for higher pdef targets, the advantage swings in favor of Demon Ironwood.

    Also keep in mind that both the level 79 skill Myriad Rainbows can also break armor at about the same rate as Demon Ironwood. Downsides are it costs 800 mana and has a 20 sec cooldown. Upsides are it's available to both Sage and Demon venos, is instant cast, and can also do a mind break (reduce mdef to zero) and apply two DoTs.

    Edit: Since multiple demon venos was brought up, here are the chances of the target getting armor break based on number of demon venos casting it:

    1 veno: 20%
    2 venos: 36%
    3 venos: 49%
    4 venos: 59%
    5 venos: 67%
    6 venos: 74%
    10 venos: 89%
    15 venos: 96%

    you forget that debuffs dont affect stats granted by buffs so fully buufed that player still has 120% of their base after the 100% redux

    yes i know venos can purge
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Damewort - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Drop in Myriad Rainbow's armor break for 9sec, then Demon Ironwood's armour break for 20sec (?) and you will probably win the game "Let's kill the archer".

    A good archer should be able to survive pulling aggro on various [?] bosses. Though, depending on which approach you take, your companions might get annoyed with you.

    To quote one relatively recent squad: "Oh, no, not again!" and "Fleuri, bring him back here!". So... if you are an archer and you pull aggro on a [?], surviving is just a part of the problem.
  • Damewort - Sanctuary
    Damewort - Sanctuary Posts: 573 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »
    A good archer should be able to survive pulling aggro on various [?] bosses. Though, depending on which approach you take, your companions might get annoyed with you.

    To quote one relatively recent squad: "Oh, no, not again!" and "Fleuri, bring him back here!". So... if you are an archer and you pull aggro on a [?], surviving is just a part of the problem.

    I mostly agree as I had archers tanking WB or TT bosses. As for surviving... How do you think how fast can herc get aggro back from higher level archer? When my herc was only lvl82-86, it lost aggro to lvl90 archer if sparked or used -int gears in TT3-1. And herc couldn't get aggro back unless archer died.

    "Let's kill the archer" is rather in guild thing, I guess... That's why that part of my post was aimed to only Mamiko_mao. I have a habit to take an archer with me when I go to aoe grind with herc to speed things up. Almost on all groups archer steals aggro few times and often almost dies. That's where the joke came from... Actually a good practice for archer on aggro control and surviving b:chuckle
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Waterfal - Sanctuary wrote: »
    isn't sage's armourbreak weaker then the cleric one :/ ? I think I read that somewhere.
    I will go demon, ironwood does pretty nice damage, I wouldn't want to hold it back when a cleric has used it's armor break spell...

    Sage Cleric = Sage Veno as far as physical debuff is concerned.
  • Nyxya - Harshlands
    Nyxya - Harshlands Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    demon ironwood it sux pve since unreliable and a demon veno needs to save chi by any means....that result u will not use that skill in pve ever... but in pk if u break armor on bm or barbar your nyx will do crazy dmg on him.. not to mention light or arcane... so if you are pve player u got 3 options ...
    1)don't learn lvl 11 and still get break 100% and is cool in tt
    2)put on golem skill to break armor is pretty nice
    3)go sage

    but if you into pk u forced to learn it since 20% of times is win winb:victory..
    i break armor on a bm with 79 skill and nyx hit him 800 .. and also very funny story ..on another server i was after a barbar to kill him ... i had barbar 100 and he was 90-100 not sure ...and a veno was with me ..we chase him a while then nyx stun him i go change human and hit perdition on barbar ..1 hit 16500 dmg....1 hit dead just because veno managed to break his defense... was very scary thing lol since a perdition does 2-4k on a barbarb:dirty
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Nyxya - Harshlands wrote: »
    demon ironwood it sux pve since unreliable and a demon veno needs to save chi by any means....that result u will not use that skill in pve ever...

    Utter BS. Regardless of whether or not it's reliable, it is the hardest hitting skill a veno has. Chi is of no consequence as it is easy to build.
    Nyxya - Harshlands wrote: »
    so if you are pve player u got 3 options ...
    1)don't learn lvl 11 and still get break 100% and is cool in tt
    2)put on golem skill to break armor is pretty nice
    3)go sage

    You are utterly noob to suggest something so dumb as this. You gimp yourself by not learning L11 Ironwood because it increases the damage output and Venos are weak enough as it is. The break is the sweetest debuff in the game next to Myriad breaks + Amplify. Unless your pet already has the debuffs on it, it's pointless to put them on there. Most sage venos fail (and I did say most, not all). Very few I know handle themselves well. You pick Demon/Sage based off the bonuses you like best for the skills you use the most. I prefer my 20% chance of a total break to a 40% break all the time.
  • Nyxya - Harshlands
    Nyxya - Harshlands Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    just because u 97 don't means you are not noob and offending also...you can disagree and hold insults for you... demon ironwood can cast 10 times and not once work i tested myself but if u keep lvl 10 then all PARTY will benefit the 10% more dmg or so......and 10% like non stop.. go check or don't, don't matter to me b:kiss..
    also sage veno is just as strong as a demon just that his power relay in other skills... how more noob can u be then state sage veno sux? go buy a mirror!
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Utter BS. Regardless of whether or not it's reliable, it is the hardest hitting skill a veno has. Chi is of no consequence as it is easy to build.
    sage noxious > ironwood.
    The break is the sweetest debuff in the game next to Myriad breaks + Amplify. Unless your pet already has the debuffs on it, it's pointless to put them on there.
    all opinion, not fact. there are times no one can get a debuff off, its more than useful to have it on a pet. good example, 2 mid level venos trying to tank 2-2 ape etc.
    Most sage venos fail (and I did say most, not all). Very few I know handle themselves well.
    ive met my fair share of idiot demons as well.
    I prefer my 20% chance of a total break to a 40% break all the time.
    then dont knock someone else's opinion for disliking the unreliable skill. i personally think its the stupidest skill in the game outside sage dragon's breath and demon stormrage eagleon.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Nyxya - Harshlands wrote: »
    demon ironwood can cast 10 times and not once work i tested myself but if u keep lvl 10 then all PARTY will benefit the 10% more dmg or so......and 10% like non stop.. go check or don't, don't matter to me b:kiss..
    In 10 casts of Demon ironwood, the chance of it going off:

    0 times = 10.7% of the time
    1 time = 26.8%
    2 times = 30.2%
    3 times = 20.1%
    4 times = 8.8%
    5 times = 2.6%
    6 times = 0.6%
    7 times = 0.1%
    8+ times = effectively zero (~ 1 in 10,000)

    So the vast majority of the time (~86%), in 10 casts you're going to have it land 1-4 times.

    Against a 1.5k-3k pdef mob, I calculated earlier that Demon Ironwood will on average increase damage by 8%-17%. (There's a typo and I wrote 1k-3k, but I meant 1.5k-3k.)

    Level 10 Ironwood (30% debuff) will increase damage by 10%-16%. So in terms of average damage increase, there's not much difference between the two. You can see that by 3k pdef, Demon Ironwood's average damage increase has already surpassed that of regular Ironwood. Demon will average even better against targets with higher pdef.
  • Mamiko_mao - Sanctuary
    Mamiko_mao - Sanctuary Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Thanks for the replies and measured responses everyone! I think I've decided, I'll go for Sage. I do enjoy the squad-friendly skills and I do intend to have WB hunts as a regular event eventually. Seems like Sage is very well suited to my intended goal. =)

    Heya Dame. Guess we'll be having demon/sage pairups now. ,V..
  • Miss_Tika - Lost City
    Miss_Tika - Lost City Posts: 730 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Yeah I think its kinda sad how the move only works 20% of the time. When I first saw the skill I thought it still did a regular armor break just 20% of the time was 100%....b:surrender

    Also, This move is more for PvP. If hell iron wood goes off... and your pet is still hitting, the player IS going to die. It's not very noticeable in PvE.
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Is sage really more squad friendly then demon?

    I'd say its very debatable.

    Demon bramble, demon amp, demon nova, demon lending hand, demon purge - seem to be more squad friendly then their sage counter parts.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Miss_Tika - Lost City
    Miss_Tika - Lost City Posts: 730 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    axt57 wrote: »
    Is sage really more squad friendly then demon?

    I'd say its very debatable.

    Demon bramble, demon amp, demon nova, demon lending hand, demon purge - seem to be more squad friendly then their sage counter parts.

    Don't think this thread is about demon sage :P

    Hell and Sage both have their strengths. Hell purge is nice but so is Sage purge, it just depends on the situation.

    Demon nova <3333333333333333

    And Hell iron wood is probably more useful in PK than sage iron wood
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Personally, outside PvP, I use purge mostly on bosses. Obviously in these cases a faster CD is better then the AoE sage provides.

    Pretty good against cosmoforce and RB bosses.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Miss_Tika - Lost City
    Miss_Tika - Lost City Posts: 730 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    axt57 wrote: »
    Personally, outside PvP, I use purge mostly on bosses. Obviously in these cases a faster CD is better then the AoE sage provides.

    Pretty good against cosmoforce and RB bosses.

    Uh ya pretty sure the only way hell pruge is good in PvE is against ape in 2-x....
  • BeatMe - Heavens Tear
    BeatMe - Heavens Tear Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    It's Barb Devour which is better - 50% at level 10. But barbs I've talked to said they generally have enough chi to use Devour, or to hold aggro, not both.

    MOAR SPARKS PLZ

    I'm a lvl 96 barb, and squad constantly with the same veno, because she feeds me sparks often enough that i am able to spam devour and flesh ream on cool down.
    There is no reason that a barb should not spam both (if you are passing enough sparks, and they are using beastial rage), not only does devour come with 50% reduction, also aids in holding agro.

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