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    • Kowlin: A Good Pet?

    Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited December 2011 in Venomancer
    I currently have the GW who is sadly a few levels behind me due to Coming of Age. But anyway, a while ago I was recommended the pet Kowlin at level 60 if possible for me to get my hands on. However, I recently came across others saying that Kowlin is pretty much useless except for luring during BH/FBs. Could someone tell me their opinion on this pet and also compared to the GW (not stats but personal opinions)

    Yes, I know that the lower the tame level the better then end result as a rule of thumb, but since Kowlin (to my knowledge) is a rare pet, so I wasn't sure about that..



    Also, Does anyone have any info on True Form? (If that's even the name) I heard the GM respawns it once a month making it extremely rare and I know you can't post the location or the GM will change it xD but does anyone know the stats of how good it is compared to others.

    (Note*: Don't compare to Phoenix or Baby Herc because at this point they aren't an option maybe later if I change my mind, but not now.)


    Thank you for your help and opinions ^^
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    Post edited by Amurora - Heavens Tear on

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    • Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      There are a handful of much better lurers than Kowlin. Kowlin is good at nothing.
      Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
    • Posts: 2,311 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      Wow, the thread's title does take me back...

      The Kowlin is pretty solid. It is the fastest pet available, which not only makes it great for luring but makes it handle like no other pet you've ever had. It's also got a good dps output although it's certainly not in the same league as a Scorp or Wanderer. It is perfect for attack/multi role in my opinion, as it works great for luring and debuffing. It's downside is it's somewhat on the frail side, although it isn't as bad as some players make it out to be. It could be trouble down the line if you're used to pets with strong tanking stats however.

      It comes with a great skill set (Bash, Ream, Pierce and Howl) and i would only recommend swapping Pierce out for Threaten which would give it a very useful debuff and double as a defensive skill. If you're unsure about it (at a market price of around 1 mil it is somewhat expensive for an experiment) the lvl 71 Steelfang Grimalkin is an often overlooked alternative.

      Edit; You must be refering to Mother of the Pack, is it the giant wolf? I don't think it has been seen much in our version of the game although i remember some screenies of one. Anyway, this is probably a long shot to get even if it is spawned by GMs every once in a while... Check the stats here http://www.ecatomb.net/petstat.php?pw=pwi

      Oh, and ignore Tweakz, if you read around some of the threads in here you'll soon realize he's only here to troll and not to add anything useful.
    • Posts: 111 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      Ah yes thank you. Players renaming their pets makes it hard for me to find haha

      http://i78.servimg.com/u/f78/12/88/64/93/2008-011.jpg

      Was the screen shot I found. But comparing it to the Mother I do believe they may be on in the same -- or they look scary similar.

      Thank you. I've seen some venos with Kowlin around but none have really stopped to talk (asked them about him but anyway) so I was just curious to get some opinions on him because I haven't seen as many as I've seen the GW and Crystalline Mag.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 222 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      I can recommend Kowlin, good tool for many uses which looks pretty sweet. Very fast, also not much durable, but at starting level you can tank mobs in frostcovered grounds easily with this one. No need to pull the rock all the way to the boss when you can call this kitty and let it fight by your side. Manray mentioned all inportant things, I just wanted to share my own experience.
      no trolls allowed, bye tweakz
    • Posts: 960 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      In my opinion, Kowlin is a balanced pet with its strengths and weaknesses. It's the fastest land pet in game making it one of the most excellent non-ranged lurers in game.

      It's main weakness is its low HP and defense but with good timing, you can bypass it when luring due to its speed.

      As MANray_ said, Kowlins have a good set of skills Bash, Flesh Ream, Pierce and Howl. The only difference is to her suggestion is to keep Pierce. Maxed Pierce decreases enemy's defense by 36% and when stacked with Ironwood Scarab, it becomes -66% (unless you have the sage version it will become 76%). You can also continue stacking it with genie skills like Tangling Mire (decreases defense by 35%). Your DDs will love you for it. I don't know if Pierce and Ironwood actually stacks but I do it anyways while Howl is in cooldown. b:surrender

      When taming Kowlins, you won't need to worry about channeling that much since it will be awhile before its HP goes down anyways (unless someone actually tries to kill it). Just cast tame in the beginning and let the other people bring its HP down.

      I think it's biggest selling point is how it looks. b:cute
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 222 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      I think this kind of debuff does not stack. Ironwood / dimensional seal (cleric debuff) and pierce generates the same icon and this icon is not multiplied. So I think it overwrites each other.
      This debuff does not overwrite the Mire (impact) though.

      And yeah, I love how it looks b:pleased
    • Posts: 960 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      Thank you. I just tried it right now. So I suppose I would recommend taking off Pierce as well for another skill. But if you're going demon and want a surefire way to debuff properly (since demon ironwood only has 20% chance of landing), pierce would definitely work well.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 1,465 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      Meyki - Sanctuary wrote: »
      I think this kind of debuff does not stack. Ironwood / dimensional seal (cleric debuff) and pierce generates the same icon and this icon is not multiplied. So I think it overwrites each other.
      This debuff does not overwrite the Mire (impact) though.

      And yeah, I love how it looks b:pleased
      Yea, it does which is why I hate when i get armor/magic break and i see the cleric doing their debuff XD. But yea, the Kowlin is a good damage dealing pet, and if you choose to upgrade its Flesh Ream, it could do more damage/be good for pking (as a land pet for hills and such because of glitching flying pets), and I like it for when Ironwood is in cooldown, or if Myraid doesnt hit. + its fast lol, and you can see the animation that it does so you can know when to call it back.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      A good moderator should:
      - Have the computer skills necessary to handle forum-related tasks (Web skills, basic programming)
      - Be patient to handle all sorts of requests
      - Be level-headed to keep discussions and some petty squabbles in check.b:cool
    • Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
      Wow, the thread's title does take me back...

      The Kowlin is pretty solid. It is the fastest pet available, which not only makes it great for luring but makes it handle like no other pet you've ever had. It's also got a good dps output although it's certainly not in the same league as a Scorp or Wanderer. It is perfect for attack/multi role in my opinion, as it works great for luring and debuffing. It's downside is it's somewhat on the frail side, although it isn't as bad as some players make it out to be. It could be trouble down the line if you're used to pets with strong tanking stats however.

      It comes with a great skill set (Bash, Ream, Pierce and Howl) and i would only recommend swapping Pierce out for Threaten which would give it a very useful debuff and double as a defensive skill. If you're unsure about it (at a market price of around 1 mil it is somewhat expensive for an experiment) the lvl 71 Steelfang Grimalkin is an often overlooked alternative.

      Edit; You must be refering to Mother of the Pack, is it the giant wolf? I don't think it has been seen much in our version of the game although i remember some screenies of one. Anyway, this is probably a long shot to get even if it is spawned by GMs every once in a while... Check the stats here http://www.ecatomb.net/petstat.php?pw=pwi

      Oh, and ignore Tweakz, if you read around some of the threads in here you'll soon realize he's only here to troll and not to add anything useful.

      ignore manboy. she's just here to try to pick up on naive prey.
      Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
    • Posts: 2,311 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      tweakz wrote: »
      ignore manboy. she's just here to try to pick up on naive prey.

      I'm the man, child.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqez1R_A0f8
    • Posts: 4,286 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      I would rather got for Lunar Lupin as I am more of dog person not cat.

      The run speeds are the same

      Lunar Lupin http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/1095

      Kowlin http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/9192
      Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
    • Posts: 2,311 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
      I would rather got for Lunar Lupin as I am more of dog person not cat.

      The run speeds are the same

      Lunar Lupin http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/1095

      Kowlin http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/9192

      Very interesting suggestion, i had previously known the Lunar only as a more vivid color variation of the Guardian. Do you know if the speed growth holds up at higher levels?
    • Posts: 4,286 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      I would imagine the speed would.
      Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
    • Posts: 816 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      After some observation..I've changed my opinion on Kowlin~
    • Posts: 8,680 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      Most things have been covered up already but I would like to mention that the Kowlin is my main pet in low level BHs/FBs. Due to its speed and the maxed skills (I have upgraded them) it was often the reason squad mates didn't die. When there is a high level in the squad the others tend to go reckless....

      Other than that I use it when I'm not tanking because I have equipped it with maxed Howl, Pierce and Threaten.
      [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
      ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
    • Posts: 2,311 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
      I would imagine the speed would.

      That two pets share similar base stats doesn't mean that they will continue to develop in much the same way. This is the reason growth charts are so important, given a pet's development over time.
      Silest - Sanctuary wrote: »
      After some observation..I've changed my opinion on Kowlin~

      Was it good or bad? b:puzzled

      I would like to make it very clear none of us are against pets being criticized, these forums are meant for debate and discussion after all. That some posters have tried to impose their UNFOUDED OPINIONS on the rest of us doesn't mean we don't welcome or accept different views. We are all here to learn about the game, so we do consider the arguments or observations of all players valuable contributions, even if it means trashing pets some of us consider good choices.
    • Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
      I would like to make it very clear none of us are against pets being criticized, these forums are meant for debate and discussion after all. That some posters have tried to impose their UNFOUDED OPINIONS on the rest of us doesn't mean we don't welcome or accept different views. We are all here to learn about the game, so we do consider the arguments or observations of all players valuable contributions, even if it means trashing pets some of us consider good choices.

      Quite true. b:thanks Disagreement is healthy so long as it is respectful. ^_^
    • Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
      Wow, the thread's title does take me back...

      The Kowlin is pretty solid. It is the fastest pet available, which not only makes it great for luring but makes it handle like no other pet you've ever had. It's also got a good dps output although it's certainly not in the same league as a Scorp or Wanderer. It is perfect for attack/multi role in my opinion, as it works great for luring and debuffing. It's downside is it's somewhat on the frail side, although it isn't as bad as some players make it out to be. It could be trouble down the line if you're used to pets with strong tanking stats however.

      Solid, yet somewhat frail? -Try very frail. How does handling benefit the venomancer, and what do you mean handling? I noticed the stupid thing had to semicircle around me before it would take a command after returning. IOW's: it had poor handling. Any pet can debuff, why choose one that fails at everything? It's not perfect for anything. It doesn't have great dps, doesn't have great survivability, and isn't even great for luring. -You're full of ****, and a boring troll.
      It comes with a great skill set (Bash, Ream, Pierce and Howl)

      Herc comes with Pounce, Strong, Protect. Nix comes with Pounce, Blessing, and Claw. -Both much better.

      Unless you get your jollies off on looking at some pixel butts of beasts like manonboy, steer clear of this otherwise worthless pet.
      Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
    • Posts: 1,512 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      tweakz wrote: »
      Solid, yet somewhat frail? -Try very frail. How does handling benefit the venomancer, and what do you mean handling? I noticed the stupid thing had to semicircle around me before it would take a command after returning. IOW's: it had poor handling. Any pet can debuff, why choose one that fails at everything? It's not perfect for anything. It doesn't have great dps, doesn't have great survivability, and isn't even great for luring. -You're full of ****, and a boring troll.
      I believe that he was using solid in a less literal sense, meaning (Merriam-Webster) "of good quality or kind"--i.e. that in his opinion it is a "solid" choice. Not that the pet itself is "solid" like rock is "solid."
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      Alphae - Lost City wrote: »
      I believe that he was using solid in a less literal sense, meaning (Merriam-Webster) "of good quality or kind"--i.e. that in his opinion it is a "solid" choice. Not that the pet itself is "solid" like rock is "solid."

      It isn't a good choice. It's not in the top 5 for anything pertinent. Speed is irrelevant when it benefits the pet nothing.
      Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
    • Posts: 2,311 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      tweakz wrote: »
      Solid, yet somewhat frail? -Try very frail. How does handling benefit the venomancer, and what do you mean handling? I noticed the stupid thing had to semicircle around me before it would take a command after returning. IOW's: it had poor handling. Any pet can debuff, why choose one that fails at everything? It's not perfect for anything. It doesn't have great dps, doesn't have great survivability, and isn't even great for luring. -You're full of ****, and a boring troll.

      What is this? After all this time you have attempted to actually present an argument instead of relying on insults alone? Alphae was right, i did not mean solid in a literal sense and anyone reading that post should have realized i wasn't refering to tanking stats. Anyone who understands such small subtleties as context and subtext that is...

      Faster pets do seem more responsive as anyone can easily find out for themselves by comparing a Walker to a Kowlin. Now, i don't know anything about Kowlins running around in circles, yes, they do make a small sort of flourish when returning to their owner, but all pets have a delay of sorts when given commands, which is precisely one of the reasons that make faster pets handle better. And while technically every pet can debuff not all are well suited for the job. Tanking pets are a good example, with both aggro and defensive skills being a consideration you can hardly spare room for debuffs. The Kowlin is a superb puller on the hands of an experienced veno whatever you might say, and it is well suited for some roles and playing styles.
      Herc comes with Pounce, Strong, Protect. Nix comes with Pounce, Blessing, and Claw. -Both much better.

      You seem to have forgotten an herc's Reflect... And i guess you consider skilling legendary pets with Howl to be a good idea. As i've said before this isn't about which pet is "better" but about the specific role you mean to use them for.
      Unless you get your jollies off on looking at some pixel butts of beasts like manonboy, steer clear of this otherwise worthless pet.

      So, on top of your disgusting scat fetish you seem to have now developed a taste for zoophilia? Because really only a sick, twisted mind such as yours would even consider the idea... You should really try reading up on the subject of Freudian projection...
    • Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
      Faster pets do seem more responsive as anyone can easily find out for themselves by comparing a Walker to a Kowlin.

      WHy i bother argue withs oemone so stoopid! b:sad
      Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
    • Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      tweakz wrote: »
      WHy i bother argue withs oemone so stoopid! b:sad

      I considered dissecting your post and pointing out all the spelling and grammar errors, but then realized the point would be lost on you and you would dismiss my criticism as "stoopid." b:chuckle
    • Posts: 1,465 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      Everyone will use whatever pet that they choose (for looks, skills, speed, size, whatever), I'm surprised to see an argument going back and forth about this one pet (as well as others but this one especially).
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      A good moderator should:
      - Have the computer skills necessary to handle forum-related tasks (Web skills, basic programming)
      - Be patient to handle all sorts of requests
      - Be level-headed to keep discussions and some petty squabbles in check.b:cool
    • Posts: 2,311 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      tweakz wrote: »
      WHy i bother argue withs oemone so stoopid! b:sad

      That's not even a proper answer you dumb perv... provide an argument or go fail more as a pet cleric.
    • Posts: 4,286 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
      That two pets share similar base stats doesn't mean that they will continue to develop in much the same way. This is the reason growth charts are so important, given a pet's development over time.
      You can't predict a pets growth chart it was good when 110mb snowbloom was around but it isn't.I know tweakz has it memorized or copied it to his hdd.You can only predict that of the same pet.
      Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
    • Posts: 3,275 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      Meyki - Sanctuary wrote: »
      I think this kind of debuff does not stack. Ironwood / dimensional seal (cleric debuff) and pierce generates the same icon and this icon is not multiplied. So I think it overwrites each other.

      the behavior of the (de)buff icons isn't necessarily reliable, though. keep in mind how ironheart's icon doesn't multiply no matter how much you stack it, for instance, or how stacked bleed/poison/burn debuffs can keep doing damage even after the debuff icon (from the first copy) goes away.

      that said, i've always tacitly assumed pierce and ironwood overwrite each other as well, even though i really can't prove it or think of a good way to go about proving it.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.
    • Posts: 1,512 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      tweakz wrote: »
      It isn't a good choice. It's not in the top 5 for anything pertinent. Speed is irrelevant when it benefits the pet nothing.

      Regardless of your opinion on the pet, it is not good to purposefully take things out of context. Even if you may be a bit abrasive, I am pretty sure you knew exactly what manray was saying.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 222 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »
      the behavior of the (de)buff icons isn't necessarily reliable, though. keep in mind how ironheart's icon doesn't multiply no matter how much you stack it, for instance, or how stacked bleed/poison/burn debuffs can keep doing damage even after the debuff icon (from the first copy) goes away.

      that said, i've always tacitly assumed pierce and ironwood overwrite each other as well, even though i really can't prove it or think of a good way to go about proving it.
      It is all only speculation, I agree. Although, those "not multiplied but stacking effect icons" are effects over time (damage or heal). I think... over time effects stack but icon is the same, other effects don't stack unless the icon is multiplied. One example can be the effect of red bubble canceling spark effects.
    • Posts: 2,843 Arc User
      edited November 2010
      Amurora - Heavens Tear wrote: »
      I currently have the GW who is sadly a few levels behind me due to Coming of Age. But anyway, a while ago I was recommended the pet Kowlin at level 60 if possible for me to get my hands on. However, I recently came across others saying that Kowlin is pretty much useless except for luring during BH/FBs. Could someone tell me their opinion on this pet and also compared to the GW (not stats but personal opinions)
      By now you can see why opinion on the pet is so polarized. It has some rather polarizing proponents/opponents who are uncompromising in their opinions.

      I'd agree with the assessment that it's a solid pet. It comes with a good set of damage/debuff skills, has good attack, and decent mdef. Its pdef is weak. Don't use it where you might end up with it tanking, and don't use it against physical AOE mobs.

      Its main problem is it doesn't really fit a need. I used mine as a debuff pet because for a while I was playing with a barb + 2 cleric + archer + me + wizard. The archer and wiz provided the DPS, the barb always tanked, and one of the clerics kept their pdef debuff up, leaving me with very little to do except Amp and weak DD. So I looked through all the pet stats on ecatomb and the defunct french site, the skill list on snowbloom110, and the kowlin came out on top as good DPS with good debuff skills. I tamed one and dressed it up with max howl to help with spell damage, threaten for helping the cleric on high damage bosses, and roar for emergencies if the barb ever lost aggro and didn't immediately get it back (the pet was expendable). I left Flesh Ream on for luring.

      But those are very specific circumstances. In pretty much any other situation, you'd want a different pet, be it DPS or backup tank. The kowlin's problem isn't that it's particularly bad at anything (except pdef tanking, which is easy enough to avoid). Its problem is that it's not the best at any of those things, so you can usually find a better pet for the job. If those circumstances don't match yours, you're going to be hard pressed to find a use for it.

      When I stopped running with the above squad, the kowlin got demoted to puller. It's as good as or better than the pre-90 ranged pets at luring, unless you're trying to pull a mob from behind a group (e.g. wurlord when he's standing behind his clones). But at 90+, the range on the cacti in FB89 is so great that it becomes measurably quicker to lure with them than with the kowlin.

      Also, for some reason the herky jerky motion of the marksman has always made it difficult for me to notice when it's stopped to do its ranged attack. That's been my main argument in favor of the kowlin as lurer (the red whirlwind when it uses a skill to lure can be spotted a mile away). But I've found that the smooth motion of the cacti makes it very easy for me to notice when it stops to attack. So easy that my kowlin basically never comes out anymore. This is a highly personal thing, so experiment with the different pets and decide which is easiest for you.

      The biggest argument against it as puller is that you're going to want a ranged pet in your bag anyway. Since you've already got a ranged pet, why not just use it to lure too?

      So overall I'd say if you need it for a specialized use (mainly debuffing, or if you find it difficult to lure with a ranged pet), then go for it. It's not a terrible pet by any means, unless you're a rabid min-maxer like tweakz. You have to take his enthusiasm for the marksman with a huge grain of salt. He has Protect (herc mdef buff) and Claw (phoenix 30% damage buff) on his. 99.9% of you are never going to have a marksman like that. Heck, I've had those two skill books sitting in my bank for months, and haven't been able convince myself to pull the trigger and teach them to my marksman. I keep thinking they'd be better on a DPS pet like a scorpion.
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