regretting going sage/demon?

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_Surreal_ - Heavens Tear
_Surreal_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,458 Arc User
edited December 2009 in Venomancer
as the title says do you regret going sage or demon if so post why thnx just trying to see if people thought they had made the wrong choice
TheEmpire

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Post edited by _Surreal_ - Heavens Tear on
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  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    sage is the ultimate win for venos :o i regret even thinking for one second to go demon if anything
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • AinaMizuako - Sanctuary
    AinaMizuako - Sanctuary Posts: 1,041 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    I regret going Demon sometimes because Sage in a lot of cases is better.

    But **** I loev my little demon tomato. b:cute
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    oh look, i'm inactive again.

    b> leviciti b:cry
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    sage is the ultimate win for venos :o i regret even thinking for one second to go demon if anything

    Ultimate win?

    Depends on situation.

    I don't regret going demon at the slightest.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Sadpuma - Heavens Tear
    Sadpuma - Heavens Tear Posts: 286 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    Going sage was the best decision IMO.

    It has the best of both worlds for PvE and PvP
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    I'm amused that demon and sage regrets are tied neck and neck so far :)

    The poll could probably use an "I am satisfied where I am, thanks" option, though.
  • Damewort - Sanctuary
    Damewort - Sanctuary Posts: 573 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    agree with Vitenka. I can't vote, cause I am satisfied with Demon.
    Only thing I miss from Sage is Soul Degeneration.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    Demon Venos should re-roll 'cause you're all ultimate losers. b:laugh -j/k

    It's all in play style.

    Even if people picked the wrong one for themselves, they'll try hard to assure themselves they made the right decision. Admitting to costly mistakes is rare. Just look at all the pure mag arcanes that shard with Citrines and go for high HP. -That mistake is even less costly.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Genosuke - Heavens Tear
    Genosuke - Heavens Tear Posts: 352 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    Correct me if im wrong, but in order to regret Demon/Sage, shouldnt you have to experience the other side? i mean, im good with demon, but i havent tried sage to see if its better.

    its not only about skill description, its about how u use the skills.
    just my opinion^^
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  • Peritia - Lost City
    Peritia - Lost City Posts: 397 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    Damewort - Sanctuary wrote: »
    agree with Vitenka. I can't vote, cause I am satisfied with Demon.
    Only thing I miss from Sage is Soul Degeneration.

    Similar situation here.

    Very happy with my choice of Sage.

    Only things I miss from demon are Ironwood (although I love sage Ironwood too), and Purge.
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  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    I don't mind missing the soul degen, since I'm friends with numerous archers who glady hp debuff anything I require HP debuffed.

    That said, I can't imagine being without the nice wood debuff provided by demon venomous. Adds like 1-2k more damage on most enemies to all your spammy attacks instantly without any chances involved.

    And the damn book cost me just 500k.
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  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    axt57 wrote: »
    I don't mind missing the soul degen, since I'm friends with numerous archers who glady hp debuff anything I require HP debuffed.

    That said, I can't imagine being without the nice wood debuff provided by demon venomous. Adds like 1-2k more damage on most enemies to all your spammy attacks instantly without any chances involved.

    And the damn book cost me just 500k.

    I wonder how many demon venos exchange bash for toxic mist on their pets.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Hari - Heavens Tear
    Hari - Heavens Tear Posts: 133 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    First off, no I love being sage.

    Secondly, sage venos don't really regret not having demon ironwood... demon ironwood fails. 20% chance to pdef debuff is just fail.

    Only thing I'd want that's demon is venemous and fox form speed boost - and the fox form speed boost I only actually miss in rebirth.
    HT clerics at their finest:

    hari: can you do mdef debuffs? makes the fight go faster
    naughty_x: waste, I do more damage without them
    hari: ...you do more damage in 2 seconds than reducing mdef by 35% for 4 casters does in 20 seconds?
    naughty_x: is waste, i do more damage

    hari: 3-3 BH goes a lot faster with a sin
    naughty_x: no, only a difference of like 3 minutes
    hari: ...we've been in here a lot longer than 3 minutes already
    naughty_x: your opinion
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    Demon ironwood fails in PvE but can be a godsend against barbs/bms in PvP. Especially if you have more then 1 demon veno attacking the target, as happens in TW.
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  • Brael - Dreamweaver
    Brael - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,430 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    tweakz wrote: »
    I wonder how many demon venos exchange bash for toxic mist on their pets.

    I don't think it would be worth it. It makes toxic mist an even better choice for a second bash skill (it was already the second best bash skill) but toxic mist over bash probably wouldn't be a good thing. Physical resist on most mobs is lower than magic resist, that still gives the edge to bash, and demons still have an armor break on top of that and potentially pierce.

    What I wonder about myself is, how many demon venos actually seek out wood mobs due to the debuff. The typical 90s mob appears to be around 27% resist weak, 39% normal, and 51% strong. Meaning the mob takes 73/61/49% damage. The wood debuff changes that to 79/68/58% damage dealt. An increase of 8.22/11.48/18.37% more damage dealt. It makes wood mobs a bit more viable of a target, almost as good as non wood mobs without demon venomous.
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    I can't wait till I get my hands on the demon metabolic boost/natures grace. Those 90 seconds shaved off would really help me manage my MP better.
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  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    I went sage and never looked back. I see no use for the demon skills. I do not want them nor care about them.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Reikara - Heavens Tear
    Reikara - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,321 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    I love sage, anything that I wanted from demon I can get from my genie. Higher crit %? Leaf dance. Fox form speed buff? Holy path.

    Can't beat an aoe purge, higher magical damage, HP debuff, self purify, extra phys def+accuracy, higher self heals, fast chi gain ect xD

    Oh.. demon ironwood you say? I'll take myriad rainbow thanks :p
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  • Maiya - Lost City
    Maiya - Lost City Posts: 2,686 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    I'm perfectly fine with my choice of demon.
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  • Gasoline - Lost City
    Gasoline - Lost City Posts: 304 Arc User
    edited November 2009
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    I love being demon mainly cuz i save like 20k genie fuel everyday not spamming holy path in TT ^.^

    I use my archer for 20% ST anyway so soul degen is kinda pointless. And omg i love hell frost scarab and hell lucky scarab and when hell iron wood 100% procs someone will die and the anti stun on summer sprints is amazing. Cant wait for demon parasite nova.

    Only thing im kinda jealous of is sage iron wood for pve, sage amp and all the chi sage veno have <.<

    I must say both demon and sage are really amazing for venos, so i think its kinda hard to regret either choice ^^
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    Gasoline - Lost City wrote: »
    I love being demon mainly cuz i save like 20k genie fuel everyday not spamming holy path in TT ^.^

    I use my archer for 20% ST anyway so soul degen is kinda pointless. And omg i love hell frost scarab and hell lucky scarab and when hell iron wood 100% procs someone will die and the anti stun on summer sprints is amazing. Cant wait for demon parasite nova.

    Only thing im kinda jealous of is sage iron wood for pve, sage amp and all the chi sage veno have <.<

    I must say both demon and sage are really amazing for venos, so i think its kinda hard to regret either choice ^^

    I love how people ignore the ongoing expense of using Genies. I think this separates the cash shoppers from the free players. Since I'm grinding for most of my coin, I couldn't see how it's profitable to use Genie skills regularly. I may use a couple a day.

    Not sure of the price of the archer skill, but SD for sage seems as difficult to obtain without cash as a legendary pet at current exchange rates. I similarly use my Wiz as a replacement for MP / HP pots.

    Great post btw!
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    tweakz wrote: »
    I love how people ignore the ongoing expense of using Genies.
    i find the daily in OHT to be sufficient enough to supply my needs.
    I use my archer for 20% ST anyway so soul degen is kinda pointless.
    slap yourself! sage archer is like the ultimate fail!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i find the daily in OHT to be sufficient enough to supply my needs.

    Some find that World Quest is enough to supply theirs.

    slap yourself! sage archer is like the ultimate fail!

    Not sure, but if the skill in question is Blood Vow, isn't it the same for Sage/ Demon?

    Putting others down to boost yourself isn't confidence: it's insecurity.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    Not sure, but if the skill in question is Blood Vow, isn't it the same for Sage/ Demon?
    any archer with half a wit will tell you the same, sage stinks.
    the skill in question is sage sharpened tooth arrow, it matches sage soul degeneration, but its hardly worth the cultivation changing decision.

    demon STA = 18% decrease and 10% more crit, using STA every 15s is like having a perma 10% more crit.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Brael - Dreamweaver
    Brael - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,430 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    tweakz wrote: »
    I love how people ignore the ongoing expense of using Genies. I think this separates the cash shoppers from the free players. Since I'm grinding for most of my coin, I couldn't see how it's profitable to use Genie skills regularly. I may use a couple a day.

    Not sure of the price of the archer skill, but SD for sage seems as difficult to obtain without cash as a legendary pet at current exchange rates. I similarly use my Wiz as a replacement for MP / HP pots.

    Great post btw!

    I burn about 50k stamina a day. If I were to avoid using my genie, and instead stick to potions, I would pay more to heal myself and cost myself some utility. Holy Path is a get out of death free card. Fortify is very useful for one of the ways I make coin, and is pretty nice to have in cube (room 27). Extreme Poison is nice for added damage, although it's not coin efficient unless I'm bringing in more than 477,272 coin per hour.

    Think about this, if I need a heal I have seven choices.
    1. Tree of Protection - 700 stamina (1701 coin), 2965 heal in 6 seconds per 61.8 seconds. 1.74 hp/coin.
    2. Second Wind - 320 stamina (778 coin), 1520 instant heal per 52.2 seconds. 1.95 hp/coin.
    3. Leech - Free, 600 instant heal per 7.9 seconds.
    4. Multiflavor Jiazozi - 1500 coin, 2500 heal in 10 seconds per 10 seconds. 1.67 hp/coin.
    5. Crab Jiazozi - 3240 coin, 3500 heal in 10 seconds per 10 seconds. 1.08 hp/coin.
    6. Metabolic Boost - Free, 1876 instant heal per 303 seconds.
    7. Soul Transfusion - Free, variable heal per 60 seconds.

    Basically, I spend more not using it than I spend using it since it's cheaper than the potion alternatives. Values used were 3752 hp, 1750/perfect stone, and my genie is 45 str, 50 dex, 43 mag (plus some vit that's not important for this).
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I burn about 50k stamina a day. If I were to avoid using my genie, and instead stick to potions, I would pay more to heal myself and cost myself some utility. Holy Path is a get out of death free card. Fortify is very useful for one of the ways I make coin, and is pretty nice to have in cube (room 27). Extreme Poison is nice for added damage, although it's not coin efficient unless I'm bringing in more than 477,272 coin per hour.

    Think about this, if I need a heal I have seven choices.
    1. Tree of Protection - 700 stamina (1701 coin), 2965 heal in 6 seconds per 61.8 seconds. 1.74 hp/coin.
    2. Second Wind - 320 stamina (778 coin), 1520 instant heal per 52.2 seconds. 1.95 hp/coin.
    3. Leech - Free, 600 instant heal per 7.9 seconds.
    4. Multiflavor Jiazozi - 1500 coin, 2500 heal in 10 seconds per 10 seconds. 1.67 hp/coin.
    5. Crab Jiazozi - 3240 coin, 3500 heal in 10 seconds per 10 seconds. 1.08 hp/coin.
    6. Metabolic Boost - Free, 1876 instant heal per 303 seconds.
    7. Soul Transfusion - Free, variable heal per 60 seconds.

    Basically, I spend more not using it than I spend using it since it's cheaper than the potion alternatives. Values used were 3752 hp, 1750/perfect stone, and my genie is 45 str, 50 dex, 43 mag (plus some vit that's not important for this).

    I don't have any healing skills on my genie and have no issue surviving purely on pots dropped by mobs I grind on/the "free" veno skills.

    Depends on playstyle I guess.
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  • Brael - Dreamweaver
    Brael - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,430 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    Using dropped potions still costs you coin. A small life potion has a resale value of 855 coin and restores 1880 hp. A small magic potion has a resale value of 1280 coin and restores 2350 mp.

    As for where I grind, that's part of it no doubt. I take virtually no damage if I'm grinding, that's boring though so I try not to do it much. My real killing lately consists of soloing fb89/99's. Despite being much worse exp, it's quite a bit more challenging and makes me actually earn my experience, unlike sitting at a grind spot where I can literally kill any mob before it reaches me (my last count at spiders was 612 kills/hour... that's one every 5.88 seconds... including time to grab loot and reach a new mob, I don't think that's a kill rate record for me either), what's the fun in that?

    Anyways, none of that changes the fact however that a genie heal is still cheaper than a potion, provided you level/stat the genie for it.
  • Reikara - Heavens Tear
    Reikara - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,321 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    I do the old heaven's tear daily quest for the tear of heaven to manufacture then decompose the OHT armour. Genie stamina is replensihable without a cost, cheaper than pots.

    Pots can't knockback monsters, increase my speed up to the max for 6 seconds, increase my critical hit rate by 2%, make me immune to wood and metal damage, give me immunity to sleep effects and cannot draw aggro onto me.
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  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I do the old heaven's tear daily quest for the tear of heaven to manufacture then decompose the OHT armour. Genie stamina is replensihable without a cost, cheaper than pots.

    I sell the perfect stones for 1000 ea and 1000 can fit in a kitty shop slot. That's 1m coin in one slot for something I don't need much of. Last week they were going for 1200. It's still far from being without cost and it's the fastest selling item I carry.
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  • Vidalaire - Heavens Tear
    Vidalaire - Heavens Tear Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    I have no regrets gong Demon. Love Demon Venomous and Fox Form. The 30% extra physical defense from Sage Fox Form is not a big deal since I'm arcane. I can get that from a well-refined phys def ornament.

    I don't miss the constant debuff from Ironwood since I never relied on it in the first place. Doesn't up my kill speed while grinding and when fighting bosses, someone else always has a phys def debuff active and I never have to worry about overriding a stonger debuff if mine procs.

    Chi is no longer an issue. Demon Crush Vigor and Lending Hand provide me with more than enough chi. A couple days ago I managed to get 4 Demon Sparks off when fighting Abomination. 90+ party with Barb tanking and only 1 Cleric. Rest were DDs and since Cleric was BBing no one held back.

    Demon Metabolic and Nature's are great. 50% per heal is more than enough. Much rather have the 50% heals every 3 and half minutes than a 60% heal every 5 minutes. If you use a charm(which I don't), Demon heals will allow you to save more of it for when you really need it.

    Then there's Demon Nova. Seal, Freeze, and Sage Amp all in one excellent skill. With all the chi I can generate, I can cast this quite frequently. Time it after Heaven's Flame debuff wears off and everything dies fast. Especially useful in RB where chi isn't an issue.
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
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    Not to forget the demon bramble is much better then the sage version; I've got a few barbs addicted to it b:surrender

    The demon anti stun is great vs bms.

    I need to get that genie crit skill... maybe I can push my final crit over 30% then.
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