Archer Forum

Archers_Soul - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

o ya...the one who is chasing arguably is at a disadvantage in a fight. the one running gets to choose when to turn around to fight and what direction to run. distance shrink's 10s cooldown is very unnerving.

yes i understand what your saying but these are 2 ranged classes not a ranged vs melee. you can run as far as you want and turn around to attack when ever you want but since wiz is a ranged class as soon as your in the ranged to attack your in the range for THEM to attack... your gonna get hit reguardless.

Quilue - Sanctuary

i was responding to Joshcja's post about bms having a seal, just running it off more or less works...i mean, not much else you can do about it lol

the 2nd post about running i was agreeing with you, with being able to close 25m every 10s and having 2 disables rather than 1, it is the wizard who is more in control of the fight.

Archers_Soul - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

i was responding to Joshcja's post about bms having a seal, just running it off more or less works...i mean, not much else you can do about it lol

the 2nd post about running i was agreeing with you, with being able to close 25m every 10s and having 2 disables rather than 1, it is the wizard who is more in control of the fight.

finally some one who understands =p

Transcend - Lost City

Today I fought Kristoph (10x mage) 1v1 at Village of Naught. He's been around since the beginning of the server afaik, so he's not an oracle noob (aka 30→100 in a week).

We fought three rounds, which started because he killed me as I tried to fly afk to vol 30. We meet head on, and he goes through the motions of seal (which he casts faster than I can stun), elemental debuffs, gush, and dragons (he tried twice, both of which were countered successfully). We fought in the air, on the ground, both of us using genie skills (I was amusingly slept once, which does nothing since they wake me up after hitting me with elemental debuffs), he shrinks to <5m, shrinks to get away, I chased him, he chased me, etc etc. It was actually a great fight that lasted 15 minutes.

Eventually I win 3-0 and he QQs about my usage of pvp pots, probably wondering why his dragons only did 50% damage to me (which weren't pots btw).

The point is that we are not gimped or steamrolled by mages (who have the same skill chains most of the time) if you know what you're doing. It just takes a lot of experience to get your timings right.

DrkLordZ - Sanctuary

what was it that made his dragon hit 50%?

Devoted - Lost City

Transcend - Lost City wrote: »

Today I fought Kristoph (10x mage) 1v1 at Village of Naught. He's been around since the beginning of the server afaik, so he's not an oracle noob (aka 30→100 in a week).

We fought three rounds, which started because he killed me as I tried to fly afk to vol 30. We meet head on, and he goes through the motions of seal (which he casts faster than I can stun), elemental debuffs, gush, and dragons (he tried twice, both of which were countered successfully). We fought in the air, on the ground, both of us using genie skills (I was amusingly slept once, which does nothing since they wake me up after hitting me with elemental debuffs), he shrinks to <5m, shrinks to get away, I chased him, he chased me, etc etc. It was actually a great fight that lasted 15 minutes.

Eventually I win 3-0 and he QQs about my usage of pvp pots, probably wondering why his dragons only did 50% damage to me (which weren't pots btw).

The point is that we are not gimped or steamrolled by mages (who have the same skill chains most of the time) if you know what you're doing. It just takes a lot of experience to get your timings right.

unbuffed archer vs self buffed mage is doable. try 1v1ing both with full buffs, that's were we fail because we get way less of a return on buffs. i'm not sure what kristoph was doing opening with an ulti.

Archers_Soul - Lost City

kristoph got vit in his build from what i hear and he armor isnt the all that great. its good but not the armor that would make a wizard a god. but GJ trancend, he had it comming to him.

Transcend - Lost City

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

unbuffed archer vs self buffed mage is doable. try 1v1ing both with full buffs, that's were we fail because we get way less of a return on buffs. i'm not sure what kristoph was doing opening with an ulti.

The first try was during the first round in the air. I was sealed and I guess he tried to 1-shot me since he hit me for 8k when I was afk. Second time was in the third round when I was on the ground, he dropped next to me, sealed, debuffed and let it go.

Both times I was able to react fast enough and cast winged shell before it dropped on me, reducing dmg by 50%, which is enough for me to tank and stun or holy path away. Of course he doesn't have cube neck, warsong belt, etc etc, but we were about evenly matched in terms of gear (event boot, one lunar ring, event cape, etc).

It's pretty rare that I fight against fully buffed mages outside of tw these days with minimal kos or large-scale pvp of the cq/spec days, but if I did fight them for as long as I did today, they'd eventually be debuffed and we'd be back to square one of self buffs. If I saw my damage was ****, I'd make an effort to debuff before attempting anything drastic.

Kireina - Dreamweaver

Archers_Soul - Lost City wrote: »

kristoph got vit in his build from what i hear and he armor isnt the all that great. its good but not the armor that would make a wizard a god. but GJ trancend, he had it comming to him.

You need to stop comparing the "what ifs" of classes though (what if he's buffed and you don't use apoth etc.), in reality it's not all fully Lunar equipped wizards vs Lunar equipped Archers and so forth and people will carry apothecary, as it's a basic game feature. Where buffs arguably do more for Wizards, Apoths/Archer skills can easily cancel/prevent things like Sleep or getting one-shot and Apoths/Genies could arguably be better tools for an Archer than for a Wizard. Our Demon skills have nasty Stun and Crit additions on them to return the impairing/damaging favour, you could also utilize Genie skills to Stun and reduce Pdef (there are far less options to reduce Mdef with genies than there are for Pdef reduction).


I don't know how Kristpoh plays in this game, but I know him from another MMO I used to play, he was quite loudmouthed, but not that much of a good PKer tactically. I wonder if he is on this game.


@Transcend - Went with the Adv Myst Pages we talked about before. Now to level some more and use them! (ps, my wallet is awfully empty and all the unneeded stuff on my banking alt is sold, so empty ._.)

anwynd

so going sage on my archer who is on a pve server is a bad idea if i read everything right

Kireina - Dreamweaver

anwynd wrote: »

so going sage on my archer who is on a pve server is a bad idea if i read everything right

Not necessarily, just research your skills- Ecatomb.net is a good place. It looks like Sage has a whole array of Def/Mdef reducing stuff, a better Sharptooth (for -HP%), more Def during BoA and an AoE D-Shot. Things which are all beneficial to your squad members as well in instances and such. Demon seems really focused on increasing one's Crit/Aspeed/Casting and 1v1ing abilities, things more useful in PvP I suppose.

I believe in the end a Demon will be more satisfactory and more powerful as an individual.

Quilue - Sanctuary

exactly what happens on the hit that pops winged shell? cuz technically it only blocks like 1k damage...

anwynd

all tht stuff you mentioned was the reason y i was thinking of going sage & ecatombs is one of the sites i use the most i found it on my 10th day playing & have used it ever sense

Kireina - Dreamweaver

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

exactly what happens on the hit that pops winged shell? cuz technically it only blocks like 1k damage...

From what I've noticed, when a someone/monster hits you, it just does

Damage dealt - Winged Shell absorb limit = Damage taken.

ie; those monsters in BH79 usually hit me for 1k-1.2k, after Winged Shell a 300~ will usually pop up, then they resume to do normal damage. Thats a normal Winged Shell anyway, can't talk for Demon/Sage.

Olba - Sanctuary

Kireina - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Not necessarily, just research your skills- Ecatomb.net is a good place. It looks like Sage has a whole array of Def/Mdef reducing stuff, a better Sharptooth (for -HP%), more Def during BoA and an AoE D-Shot. Things which are all beneficial to your squad members as well in instances and such. Demon seems really focused on increasing one's Crit/Aspeed/Casting and 1v1ing abilities, things more useful in PvP I suppose.

I believe in the end a Demon will be more satisfactory and more powerful as an individual.

Wasn't it clarified that the description of Sage Deadly Shot only makes it so that it doesn't suffer the melee range penalty at all?

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

today i totally killed a 99 veno with a wind and the clouds in a nef tw. archer iz so pwns.

Kireina - Dreamweaver

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wasn't it clarified that the description of Sage Deadly Shot only makes it so that it doesn't suffer the melee range penalty at all?

I'm not sure, got sources on that? My guildie is a Sage and he says it's an AoE.

denesis

Kireina - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm not sure, got sources on that? My guildie is a Sage and he says it's an AoE.

Nope it makes ur nearby opponents recieve full dmg, no half dmg penalty.

Transcend - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

exactly what happens on the hit that pops winged shell? cuz technically it only blocks like 1k damage...

I have demon winged shell, and upon tests in duels and in open pvp, it reduces ice dragon by 50%.

For those on LC, I have done this once against SweetDream in a duel (10x, normal 9.6k, winged shell ~4.4k), and three times against Kristoph so far. These were cast the very moment I saw the dragon animation and had full damage absorb to tank it. Can also ask Maveena (10x archer), who saw me brush off a dragon after I stunned the EP that was about to rock him, with Kristoph trailing behind me.

But regardless of this 1v1 vs Kristoph, I did win a 3v1 against 2 99/100ish mages (SweetDream, Coh) and bm (Centurion). I was sealed, demon sparked after I was free, absolute domained (3.4sec) after DS immunity wore of, 1-2 shot the mages (1.00 atk/sec) with 4k crits, and killed off the BM.

I know these sound like "cool storiesssss, bro," but I'll be more active in recording my pvp to show I'm not talking outta my **** b:shocked These aren't the best-geared people on the server, but neither am I..

Archers_Soul - Lost City

Kireina - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You need to stop comparing the "what ifs" of classes though (what if he's buffed and you don't use apoth etc.), in reality it's not all fully Lunar equipped wizards vs Lunar equipped Archers and so forth and people will carry apothecary, as it's a basic game feature. Where buffs arguably do more for Wizards, Apoths/Archer skills can easily cancel/prevent things like Sleep or getting one-shot and Apoths/Genies could arguably be better tools for an Archer than for a Wizard. Our Demon skills have nasty Stun and Crit additions on them to return the impairing/damaging favour, you could also utilize Genie skills to Stun and reduce Pdef (there are far less options to reduce Mdef with genies than there are for Pdef reduction).


I don't know how Kristpoh plays in this game, but I know him from another MMO I used to play, he was quite loudmouthed, but not that much of a good PKer tactically. I wonder if he is on this game.


@Transcend - Went with the Adv Myst Pages we talked about before. Now to level some more and use them! (ps, my wallet is awfully empty and all the unneeded stuff on my banking alt is sold, so empty ._.)

i just said what was true. idk why you have such a problem with that.

Archers_Soul - Lost City

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

today i totally killed a 99 veno with a wind and the clouds in a nef tw. archer iz so pwns.

wow... how did you pull that off? =o

Kireina - Dreamweaver

Archers_Soul - Lost City wrote: »

wow... how did you pull that off? =o

I'm guessing it wasn't a 1v1 or the veno was afk/VERY poorly equipped.

Archers_Soul - Lost City

Transcend - Lost City wrote: »

I did win a 3v1 against 2 99/100ish mages (SweetDream, Coh) and bm (Centurion).

lol those 3 are always together. i figth em all the time, i wonder if they can clean their **** by themselves. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEQ2O5P96Xs thats all 3 of them. Coh is easy though, i can always "almost" kill him even at my lvl.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

Archers_Soul - Lost City wrote: »

wow... how did you pull that off? =o

idk i did like 700 a hit on the dude. it was so focused on sending phoenixes down on people from the air, they obviously didnt know how to play.

Quilue - Sanctuary

700 on 9x's w/ wind and cloud? that must've been some sort of full citrine robie

b:chuckle

Devoted - Lost City

remember that no one can have your gear without cash shopping nowadays. having a +8 cv bow helps a ****load in pvp. all I can say is money buys skill. if you think this game takes some sort of rare ability you are wrong. the majority of people that can function in daily life given the right amount of time to learn would know how to play any class. if you know the basics for fighting each class you will never stand out skill wise. since a lot of ppl are actually really good at pvp the only thing that distinguishes them from someone with an equal logic process of pushing buttons is limited to a very few things. the first obvious one would be gear and refine levels. obviously an idiot like shinzoko can beat me 1 on 1 because he hits for 3k normal attacks while i barely break 1k. for me to beat him would require a nicely timed triple spark and he even knows how to counter it. another reason could be the way they pvp. all my gear is bound so i don't carry hp, mp or apoc pots most of the time. with that alone i'm at a huge disadvantage because those easily make or break a fight.

with that being said as long as the player you are fighting is at the same skill level as you with the same gear but just not an archer you will lose in the long run. (i dont care enough to explain but from more than enough pvp playing on/against every class it's not even hard to see)

i don't want to direct this to you because i think you are a good person but pvp balance since the anni packs has gone downhill. i never saw you pvp outside of your tw vids and tbh i'd have to say the anni packs helped you more than others.

Whadafak - Harshlands

Well said to both Transcend and Devoted.

Transcend shows what archers can be with good timing and use of pots, etc.
Devoted explains that archers generally fail compared to other classes with same gear, etc-- which is true. If u care to disagree, pls try pvping at high 9x.

Both are right... and if u don't agree, face palm nao!

Transcend - Lost City

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

remember that no one can have your gear without cash shopping nowadays. having a +8 cv bow helps a ****load in pvp. all I can say is money buys skill. if you think this game takes some sort of rare ability you are wrong. the majority of people that can function in daily life given the right amount of time to learn would know how to play any class. if you know the basics for fighting each class you will never stand out skill wise. since a lot of ppl are actually really good at pvp the only thing that distinguishes them from someone with an equal logic process of pushing buttons is limited to a very few things. the first obvious one would be gear and refine levels. obviously an idiot like shinzoko can beat me 1 on 1 because he hits for 3k normal attacks while i barely break 1k. for me to beat him would require a nicely timed triple spark and he even knows how to counter it. another reason could be the way they pvp. all my gear is bound so i don't carry hp, mp or apoc pots most of the time. with that alone i'm at a huge disadvantage because those easily make or break a fight.

with that being said as long as the player you are fighting is at the same skill level as you with the same gear but just not an archer you will lose in the long run. (i dont care enough to explain but from more than enough pvp playing on/against every class it's not even hard to see)

i don't want to direct this to you because i think you are a good person but pvp balance since the anni packs has gone downhill. i never saw you pvp outside of your tw vids and tbh i'd have to say the anni packs helped you more than others.

No worries, I respect your opinion and know where you're coming from.

I'd consider myself a slightly above average CS'er (refining only during sales, and limiting my spending to something reasonable with my RL income), but I'm not in any way saying I'm different from someone else who's played their class for over 15 months. I just try to stay one step ahead of the person I'm fighting against, because most classes have a similar skill set amongst themselves.

I think I got very lucky on the anni packs, as you saw during that the first hour when I won the lunar ring (which I did appreciate coming from an old school guildie). I spent about $200 cash on packs (mind you I spent $40 the previous 12 months), hustled for the rest, and made a deal to get my lunar (20m & hh90+7 & 100 spring packs). I won the boots a few days later, traded the 85 insignia for cape, and bought the helm with profits from merching.

Yes, anni packs have helped me a lot, but they're not godlike with +7/8 refines. I'm only working with 5.5k hp, so I (we as archers) have to be extra creative to avoid being stunlocked and/or taking massing damage.

Today I fought QuanTuKiem, who has a +12 GX, and +10 armor set with warsong belt and cube neck. He won the first round with a 5.8k crit as I tried to fly away (QQ), and I beat him the second time via sharptooth, ticking his charm, stun, and quickshot, hitting 5 of the last 8 shots via crit at ~2k dmg/hit. I had an epic debuff that proc'ed just as he tried to self-buff, nullifying it before I even saw the icon. Yes, this time I recorded it, and will be thrown in on the next vid

I guess I'll be forever trying to prove that archers are viable at end-game without having to spend thousands on gear or refines b:cry

Archers_Soul - Lost City

Transcend - Lost City wrote: »

No worries, I respect your opinion and know where you're coming from.

I'd consider myself a slightly above average CS'er (refining only during sales, and limiting my spending to something reasonable with my RL income), but I'm not in any way saying I'm different from someone else who's played their class for over 15 months. I just try to stay one step ahead of the person I'm fighting against, because most classes have a similar skill set amongst themselves.

I think I got very lucky on the anni packs, as you saw during that the first hour when I won the lunar ring (which I did appreciate coming from an old school guildie). I spent about $200 cash on packs (mind you I spent $40 the previous 12 months), hustled for the rest, and made a deal to get my lunar (20m & hh90+7 & 100 spring packs). I won the boots a few days later, traded the 85 insignia for cape, and bought the helm with profits from merching.

Yes, anni packs have helped me a lot, but they're not godlike with +7/8 refines. I'm only working with 5.5k hp, so I (we as archers) have to be extra creative to avoid being stunlocked and/or taking massing damage.

Today I fought QuanTuKiem, who has a +12 GX, and +10 armor set with warsong belt and cube neck. He won the first round with a 5.8k crit as I tried to fly away (QQ), and I beat him the second time via sharptooth, ticking his charm, stun, and quickshot, hitting 5 of the last 8 shots via crit at ~2k dmg/hit. I had an epic debuff that proc'ed just as he tried to self-buff, nullifying it before I even saw the icon. Yes, this time I recorded it, and will be thrown in on the next vid

I guess I'll be forever trying to prove that archers are viable at end-game without having to spend thousands on gear or refines b:cry

there is only 1 trancend. your the only one that some how have this epic gift of archerism

Devoted - Lost City

Transcend - Lost City wrote: »

No worries, I respect your opinion and know where you're coming from.

I'd consider myself a slightly above average CS'er (refining only during sales, and limiting my spending to something reasonable with my RL income), but I'm not in any way saying I'm different from someone else who's played their class for over 15 months. I just try to stay one step ahead of the person I'm fighting against, because most classes have a similar skill set amongst themselves.

I think I got very lucky on the anni packs, as you saw during that the first hour when I won the lunar ring (which I did appreciate coming from an old school guildie). I spent about $200 cash on packs (mind you I spent $40 the previous 12 months), hustled for the rest, and made a deal to get my lunar (20m & hh90+7 & 100 spring packs). I won the boots a few days later, traded the 85 insignia for cape, and bought the helm with profits from merching.

Yes, anni packs have helped me a lot, but they're not godlike with +7/8 refines. I'm only working with 5.5k hp, so I (we as archers) have to be extra creative to avoid being stunlocked and/or taking massing damage.

Today I fought QuanTuKiem, who has a +12 GX, and +10 armor set with warsong belt and cube neck. He won the first round with a 5.8k crit as I tried to fly away (QQ), and I beat him the second time via sharptooth, ticking his charm, stun, and quickshot, hitting 5 of the last 8 shots via crit at ~2k dmg/hit. I had an epic debuff that proc'ed just as he tried to self-buff, nullifying it before I even saw the icon. Yes, this time I recorded it, and will be thrown in on the next vid

I guess I'll be forever trying to prove that archers are viable at end-game without having to spend thousands on gear or refines b:cry

Yes you are super lucky in terms of the anni packs. >_> but +7/8 now without cash shopping isn't viable any more. The average archer won't be able to pull off refines like that without huge luck. quantukiem is really, really bad... being able to kill him is somewhat of a feat but it doesn't disprove what i'm trying to establish: archers at a level playing field are at a huge disadvantage. we can sometimes beat the odds but variance says we lose. I have a lot I could say as to why but just like my heaven/hell thingy nothing has brought me enough motivation to write it.

archers do get ok at 100 but are still always at a disadvantage. at least at 100 you don't feel 100% like you wasted a year playing a doomed class.