Demon Masteries, and Will of Pheonix

Rainesierr - Lost City

hey just two questions here. first of all, ive been leaving will of pheonix at lvl 1 and not using it for awhile. sometimes ill accidentally bump the button, but the mob wont move when i cast. If i lvl the skill higher, will it affect higher lvl mobs?

as for the second question, ive been readong some conflicting ideas. The demon Wizard masteries give +20% their element's damage and +1% crit. doesnt that crit apply to all elements?
as in if you get all 3 lvl 11 you will have +3% crit, not +1% fire, 1 water, and one earth. just lookin for a bit of clarification here b:victory

Adroit - Lost City

Rainesierr - Lost City wrote: »

hey just two questions here. first of all, ive been leaving will of pheonix at lvl 1 and not using it for awhile. sometimes ill accidentally bump the button, but the mob wont move when i cast. If i lvl the skill higher, will it affect higher lvl mobs?

as for the second question, ive been readong some conflicting ideas. The demon Wizard masteries give +20% their element's damage and +1% crit. doesnt that crit apply to all elements?
as in if you get all 3 lvl 11 you will have +3% crit, not +1% fire, 1 water, and one earth. just lookin for a bit of clarification here b:victory

There are some mobs that WotP will just not be able to push back (mainly elite mobs), so leveling it up won't change that. That skill is very useful when you get it leveled up a bit though

My understanding about the demon masteries is that the +crit is only for that element. So when/if you get all 3 demon masteries, you basically get an additional +1% crit overall.

Hope that helps b:pleased

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Normal mobs on the map will be kicked back.
In FB/TT/FC/etc is working on some, not working on others. You'll get the feel of it in time.
Leave it for a while at lvl 1, it's worth lvling when u start to PvP. Does quite a good dmg (equivalent of sage Pyro) and is as fast as gush (channel+cast), with a longer cooldown and range restriction ofc and not as efficient mana wise. But it's an AoE so used wisely it has his benefits.

Masteries for demon add 1 crit rate/element, when u have all 3 you can say you have +1 crit, otherwise you have that only for the element u learn the mastery

wnight

leveling up Phoenix except damage increase also pushes back additional distance. However its arguable is it worth to bother at all at early stages. I noticed that some mobs after push back just start running towards you and difference between +2 and +3 meters doesn't matter since it still doesn't give enough time to cast additional spell since they cover that section pretty fast but the cost of spell increase significant, increase in damage kinda ****... b:surrender

Kristoph - Lost City

Phoenix is worth upgrading once you can get it to about 8, which is when you'll be able to cancel magic attacks from normal mobs by pushing them out of range, assuming you don't start running to the mob to cast phoenix too late. But no, if lv1 phoenix can't push a mob back, lv10 won't push them back either.

Rainesierr - Lost City

thanks for the info everyone ^^ and man if its only 1% crit per element im almost definetly going sage >.>

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

If you are pure. You must have phoenix level to 10. Don't do same mistake like me. I didn't leveled it. I preferred other skills= BIG mistake. Huge difference is, when you have just lv.5(example) and lv 10. With level 10 is it exactly what safe your ****.b:laugh

Kannone - Heavens Tear

errr just curious, how did we come to the conclusion that demon masteries work like such?

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

My understanding about the demon masteries is that the +crit is only for that element. So when/if you get all 3 demon masteries, you basically get an additional +1% crit overall.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Kannone - Heavens Tear wrote: »

errr just curious, how did we come to the conclusion that demon masteries work like such?

Probably from somebody who already has it. And his critics increased by 1% not by 3%.

Lorsis - Lost City

Masteries add 1% crit to all magic attack each (read description on hell masteries), means if you have all 3, you have 3% more crit.
And crit from masteries does not show up in stat window cause its only for magic attack, wont work if you melee hit someone.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Lorsis - Lost City wrote: »

Masteries add 1% crit to all magic attack each (read description on hell masteries), means if you have all 3, you have 3% more crit.
And crit from masteries does not show up in stat window cause its only for magic attack, wont work if you melee hit someone.

And why another crit show up at statistic? I don't do melee attack. I don't think you are right. Also it was confirmed 1000x here, that is not 3% crit. more. Just 1% for each element.

mazzle

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And why another crit show up at statistic? I don't do melee attack. I don't think you are right. Also it was confirmed 1000x here, that is not 3% crit. more. Just 1% for each element.

Sage dragon doesnt show up on stats either, yet its never been proven they dont stack.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

mazzle wrote: »

Sage dragon doesnt show up on stats either, yet its never been proven they dont stack.

It can be proven very easily. Just counting you hits. If you had 4%. 3% from masteries and 1% basic. You must have 4 critic hits in 100hits mediocre. But If you have just 2%. 1% basic + 1% from masteries you must have just 2 critics hits in 100hits. So it can be proven very easily. Of course you can do 300hits and mathematically mediocre will be always the same. I don't know how to explain it better, but it can be proven very easily. I think somebody already did it.

Also I have already book for sage earth mastery so I can tell you if it show up in statistic or not in lv 92.;-)

mazzle

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It can be proven very easily. Just counting you hits. If you had 4%. 3% from masteries and 1% basic. You must have 4 critic hits in 100hits mediocre. But If you have just 2%. 1% basic + 1% from masteries you must have just 2 critics hits in 100hits. So it can be proven very easily. Of course you can do 300hits and mathematically mediocre will be always the same. I don't know how to explain it better, but it can be proven very easily. I think somebody already did it.

Also I have already book for sage earth mastery so I can tell you if it show up in statistic or not in lv 92.;-)

iv crited very often with just 4% in my 8x some 2-3 crites in a row, and im pretty sure iv hit more than 4 in 100 hits so im sorry that cannot by accurate.

Im also sure there are other mages that experience similar while casting spells.

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It can be proven very easily. Just counting you hits. If you had 4%. 3% from masteries and 1% basic. You must have 4 critic hits in 100hits mediocre. But If you have just 2%. 1% basic + 1% from masteries you must have just 2 critics hits in 100hits. So it can be proven very easily. Of course you can do 300hits and mathematically mediocre will be always the same. I don't know how to explain it better, but it can be proven very easily. I think somebody already did it.

Also I have already book for sage earth mastery so I can tell you if it show up in statistic or not in lv 92.;-)

Yes it can be proven this way, but good luck finding a demon and sage mage with all the masteries that are willing to shoot 1000x gush on a horse for accurate results...

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

mazzle wrote: »

iv crited very often with just 4% in my 8x some 2-3 crites in a row, and im pretty sure iv hit more than 4 in 100 hits so im sorry that cannot by accurate.

Im also sure there are other mages that experience similar while casting spells.

Yes you can critices more often with first 100hits. But in next 100hit you will crites less. Matematics cannot lie. So if you hits 1000x you will see, that you crites exactly same times as is your percentage crit. gear or skills or as many crit you have. You cannot crites more, than you have crit. Example. If you have 4% crit. You can crites 8x in first 100hits. But in next 100hits you will not crites 1 time. So in 200hit you will crites 8x. So is still just 4% per 100 hits.

prof

mumi, shut up. there's no way to prove how the mastery +crit works, only to have devs say it themselves. don't be so arrogant k?

Fire Element Mastery (92)
holy. Fire elemental damage increase by 25%.
dark. When using magic attack, there will be 1% critical hit rate increase.

it doesn't say "When using fire attack", it says "When using magic attack". its never been proven, and honestly, you're terrible at arguing. and as I've been saying for a ****ing week now: GET to 89, shove the pitiful white fairy up your **** and be a happy little whiner.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

prof wrote: »

mumi, shut up. there's no way to prove how the mastery +crit works, only to have devs say it themselves. don't be so arrogant k?

Fire Element Mastery (92)
holy. Fire elemental damage increase by 25%.
dark. When using magic attack, there will be 1% critical hit rate increase.

it doesn't say "When using fire attack", it says "When using magic attack". its never been proven, and honestly, you're terrible at arguing. and as I've been saying for a ****ing week now: GET to 89, shove the pitiful white fairy up your **** and be a happy little whiner.

Do you think, that you are idiot ever1 has to be too? What did you had from mathematics and statistic? "F" Or what you have there? You proven you stupidity, when I use YOUR own formula to calculate, that sage with purgatory +8 has with every spells except SS higher damage output and You was unable to trust your own formula. With that you was absolutely proven as an idiot. YOU kick your own ****. Same here. You have no idea what statistic is. If you had, You wouldn't that is impossible to prove. This bull**** you can tell in you school to your friends. When you grow up, and when you will have some better education, not just from elementary school, then we can speak again.b:angry

prof

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Do you think, that you are idiot ever1 has to be too? What did you had from mathematics and statistic? "F" Or what you have there? You proven you stupidity, when I use YOUR own formula to calculate, that sage with purgatory +8 has with every spells except SS higher damage output and You was unable to trust your own formula. With that you was absolutely proven as an idiot. YOU kick your own ****. Same here. You have no idea what statistic is. If you had, You wouldn't that is impossible to prove. This bull**** you can tell in you school to your friends. When you grow up, and when you will have some better education, not just from elementary school, then we can speak again.b:angry

I've been out of school for awhile now.

btw, stfu and go level. stop posting until you finally GET your ****ing fairy. clueless ****. b:bye

Trawne - Lost City

prof wrote: »

mumi, shut up. there's no way to prove how the mastery +crit works, only to have devs say it themselves. don't be so arrogant k?

Fire Element Mastery (92)
holy. Fire elemental damage increase by 25%.
dark. When using magic attack, there will be 1% critical hit rate increase.

it doesn't say "When using fire attack", it says "When using magic attack". its never been proven, and honestly, you're terrible at arguing. and as I've been saying for a ****ing week now: GET to 89, shove the pitiful white fairy up your **** and be a happy little whiner.

it can be proven. people prove **** like this all the time in other games. what you'll need is a demon mage with all 3 masteries and a day to waste. have him cast gush on a mob 10,000 times and count how many crits he gets.

prof

which is still a very innacurate number. there is no way to prove it by simply counting how many times you crit.

even when I had 3%, I often had times when I would crit 3-4 times in a row.

Kannone - Heavens Tear

prof wrote: »

mumi, shut up. there's no way to prove how the mastery +crit works, only to have devs say it themselves. don't be so arrogant k?

Fire Element Mastery (92)
holy. Fire elemental damage increase by 25%.
dark. When using magic attack, there will be 1% critical hit rate increase.

it doesn't say "When using fire attack", it says "When using magic attack". its never been proven, and honestly, you're terrible at arguing. and as I've been saying for a ****ing week now: GET to 89, shove the pitiful white fairy up your **** and be a happy little whiner.

Yah that's all I was wondering, if there was any empirical evidence like dev or GM mention... The descriptions are ambiguous imho, could mean any number of things... guess we'll never know.

If however I had to guess, I see it this way:

Assumed as truth: Holy & Dark are more or less equal, there really isn't a "better."

Therefore:iff holy masteries give +5% bonus damage, and If dark masteries give 1% total crit, then we have merely 1% damage bonus as lim -> ∞, a gross inequality that favors holy; if however they give 3% crit then we have something much much closer to being equal to the holy version: +3% dmg as lim -> ∞, with the 3% coming as a giant spike. A giant damage spike @ 3% is more or less in line with dark's other skills which favor damage spikes vs. holy's constant damage.


^ this makes sense to me, but again is never been proven I guess.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Kannone the magic hamster congratulates you on your knowledge of teh calculus. b:chuckle
however the limit is not infinity (although there isn't really a absolute value of which we know of) as that be unpossible (unless your a GM/Dev and set it to that O.o). The limit will have to be set to max magic attack one can get at level 105 (current level cap) + best weapon available/gear (me suppose warsoul glaive? although that be iffy since who can afford that? b:shocked)


Algeblah confooses me. b:surrender

Kannone - Heavens Tear

I was just referring to time*, as time approaches ∞ the damage from dark masteries should equal the damage gained from holy masteries (if and only if we're assuming that both classes are equal and the developers designed their skills to reflect this equality).

Just a hypothetical though b:thanks



*it's assumed that we wouldn't compare two hypothetical mages with different m.attack; instead we're assuming they each have identical magic attack.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

Of course you would -- once you have landed a critical hit, if you have a 3% crit chance, you have almost one chance in a thousand of your next two hits being critical hits.

A bigger problem than random variation, I think, would be counting how many crits you landed with 10,000 tries.

But if you want to make this easier, you could take off all critical hit gear so you just have your base chance. I think that the difference between 2% and 4% should become obvious after only a thousand attacks.

It would be easier. If you had 7% normal crit. + 3% form demon mastieries(if), You would have total 10%. So mathematically every 10hit should be critical. Or if you had just 8%(7+1from mastries) every 12.5 hits shoudl be critical. Of course you should hits "couple" times(more is better and more accurate). But at the end you should see the different between 10% and 8%.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

prof wrote: »

mumi, shut up. there's no way to prove how the mastery +crit works, only to have devs say it themselves. don't be so arrogant k?

Fire Element Mastery (92)
holy. Fire elemental damage increase by 25%.
dark. When using magic attack, there will be 1% critical hit rate increase.
it doesn't say "When using fire attack", it says "When using magic attack". its never been proven, and honestly, you're terrible at arguing. and as I've been saying for a ****ing week now: GET to 89, shove the pitiful white fairy up your **** and be a happy little whiner.

So if you have all 3 demon masteries....
BT gets an extra 1.5% chance to crit? b:chuckle

Miss_Tika - Lost City

From my understanding, and from what ive read and from what other people told me... It's 1% crit for that specific element. So if you get all three, its basically adding 1% more crit to your total crit rate.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Miss_Tika - Lost City wrote: »

From my understanding, and from what ive read and from what other people told me... It's 1% crit for that specific element. So if you get all three, its basically adding 1% more crit to your total crit rate.

Exactly. I red lot of topics about demon masteries. Form demon mages who already had it. It doesn't stuck. Same as lower fire resistance(example) from divine pyro, doesn't stuck with undine. And I can post lot of examples, when one advantage doesn't stuck with another. That's why it not showing in statistic, that is ,my opinion.

Miss_Tika - Lost City

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Exactly. I red lot of topics about demon masteries. Form demon mages who already had it. It doesn't stuck. Same as lower fire resistance(example) from divine pyro, doesn't stuck with undine. And I can post lot of examples, when one advantage doesn't stuck with another. That's why it not showing in statistic, that is ,my opinion.

lol I know right.

It's like saying Sage Masteries stacked b:laugh

Rainesierr - Lost City

but sage masteries say +25% fire damage, where demon just say magic critical hit rate. im not agreeing or dissagreeing, at this point im asking, could we get a GM in here or something? b/c i seriously think thats the only way anyone is going to agree. Miss_Tika and prof both tend to be pretty reliable souces, based on what ive read in forums before xD ohwell at least i got my WoP question answered lol

Lorsis - Lost City

Miss_Tika - Lost City wrote: »

From my understanding, and from what ive read and from what other people told me... It's 1% crit for that specific element. So if you get all three, its basically adding 1% more crit to your total crit rate.

So you have problems with understanding simple sentences, and listening to peoples who have no idea what are they talking about. Read description, it says increasing magic critical rate. MAGIC.
Prove it work 1% per element or stick to description of the skill.

Yes i have hell masteries.

@tempest and 1.5% crit.

Troll