Aggro mechanics; tips..

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

Aggro Mechanics Guide
Last significant edit: April 24 2010

'Aggro mechanics' aren't very complicated and you should learn about some til your 30lvl (first 'real' squads near Archosaur ftw) or at 40s on many Treasure Hunter (Bounty Hunter) runs. You just need to remember that mobs/bosses aren't really living creatures, they don't think :P and always act in same way.
Also, you shoud learn every class role in squad..

Okie, this not gonna be essey (essey is boring) just short tips.
In general info section you will find small glossary which will help you to understand content bellow.
Then guide is divided into 5 parts: first 4 describes every class role in squad and last is about genie skills.
Tips which are strictly describing aggro-issues are white.
Other tips which are more-like-for-newbies are blue.
BTW Read whole guide even if you don't play other classes (i didnt repeat info to keep topic shorter).

If you want to learn more - read posts bellow where you may find more detailed info added by other people

GENERAL INFO

Tank - guy who realy like to be beaten by mobs; usually barbarian because of lot hp and -which is more important- has/shoud have good aggro skills which help him to hold monster aggro* on himself.
Sometimes blademasters or venomancers with tank-pet like to play tank-role which may be bit more dangerous because pure Damage Dealers like to steal aggro*.

Damage Dealer - DD - archer, wizzard, venomancer, blademaster and sometimes cleric; people that are suposed to do damage to monster tanked by someone else. More dmg they can do = better, but also better tank needed to be able to hold aggro*.

Lurer - usually venomancer with pet; if tank don't think that will be able to survive attack of few monsters, veno lure one mob from group (poke one with her pet and hide it) and tank catch it.

Aggro - "This means the monsters are mad at you and you've "activated" them to attack you. They are now in the motion of trying to reach and attack you." (by iknowmymom from "Commonly used abbreviations" topic). ^^
You can aggro "unactivated" mob by attacking it but also if you just get too close. If you are DD you can also steal aggro* from someone else and clerics may cause heal aggro*.
You can easly guess if you stole aggro because mob will try to get in range to hit you and also turn front to you.

Aggro Radius - "The radius around the monsters where they will "wake up" and attack you." (by iknowmymom).
Typical aggro radius length for mobs in many dungeons is ~10m.

Aggro Range - bigger than aggro radius; area around monster where he will chase you if you aggro him. If you walk enough far away from mob's spawn point then mob will 'reset' (yellow light around him).
Howerver, im dungeons mobs will follow you outside of their aggro range. If you die outside of mob's aggro range -and if noone from squad uses any skill which cause aggro- mob will reset.
But if you die in mob aggro range (often even 50-100m) mob will switch to closest party member.

Aggro Steal - "aggroed" monster will always switch to person who does most dmg (or most dps) or use aggro skills.

Heal Aggro - Cleric: if you will heal someone too close from unactivated mob you will aggro that mob on yourself.
But also -for example- if archer attack one monster from four mob group and they all will run after him, and you will try to heal, then 3 from those mobs will aggro on you just after first spell. Just activated (but not hit) mobs will consider your heals like dmg done to them. Mind that if you don't stop healing that archer and he hit mob just once, 4th mob will also aggro on you after some time.

Holding Aggro - making mob/mobs to focus just on you = dealing most dmg or using aggro skills.

TANK TIPS

-fav aggro skills: Flesh Ream, Devour and Roar.
Flesh Ream is your strongest aggro skill.
Devour also generate some nice amount of aggro. Plus, It is strongest in-game p.def debuff and it lowers target's attack power.
Roar is AoE 'taunt' which reset aggro and draw it on you - but isnt good in holding it for longer time.

-if you in squad with pure or higher lvl DDs mind you have to care about aggro holding more..

-if you are tanking few mobs, mind that DDs many not want to kill just one mob you are poking and prolly will use AoE attacks..
Use yours AoEs and Flesh Realm every mob often. Learn to combine them well.

-if u decided to not spam AoE on multiple mobs and just hold aggro by switching targets and poking (remember to use AoE aggro at beginning still) tell your party-mates which mob will be main target (on which one you will use aggro skills most). Even simple word like 'middle', 'right', 'green', 'black' before you rush into group is better than saying nothing [inspired by Vitenka]

-you are living shield, so always tank all mobs if someone aggroed few on whole party. Use AoE aggro skill (f.e. Roar) or aggro normally if there are chars than may be semi-tanks (mind this is more risky because cleric may die).

-when pulling ranged mobs - wait for it to get past you, then hit FR (e.n. literally bite it ***). This will make it kite AWAY from the group it just got pulled from. [by Baalbak]

-mind that you and cleric are most important in squad and should die as last on party wipe out (i.e. attacked by group of mobs). Squad can survive without DDs, cant- without tank or cleric.

-Keep cleric on your six while tanking boss. Correct your position if boss move. It is always safer if cleric can heal on max (possible) heal range.
You should obey this rule especially on AoE bosses, since -in many cases- cleric will be able to heal outside of AoE range.
Though sometimes cleric may choose different position (quite common behavior on bosses with random aggro).

-for tough times use hp pots, devour later invoke ('shell') and alacrity to cancel oponent spell-casting (usualy boss channeling is noticable)

-look around - people will aggro something sometimes and you should run to them and get mob from victim; if you lazy, slow and care just about own butt - swich to veno, buy herc and play solo-mode

-also check squad hp bars often

-even if you really epic you cant solo dungeon so.. wait for your cleric - you run twice faster than him >.<

-on AoE bosses where cleric cant BB, let him be farest possible/safe from boss. Most of AoEs are physical type which may one-shot squishy. Bigger distance gives more time to react and also often reduces dmg.

-learn buffs and debuffs to make yours and squad lifes easier

-you are the tank so you are suposed to tank mobs (not so obvious for some unfortunately) and if you're going to skip monsters (let other ppl take dmg) because of repair/mana bills you should think about changing class

DD TIPS

-
-Let tank build some aggro - wait few hits before you start to DD.

-DD same mob tank is poking. Watch carefuly because poking barbs like to switch mobs fast to hold aggro.
And if you have problems with guessing which one tank is poking then 'scroll out' camera and watch closer to tank. Your perfect char butt don't have to be in middle of the screen all the time.
Also really helpful is Assist Attack button. Point tank and hit Assist Attack - it will switch to mob who is currently being attacked by barb.

-If are trying to avoid stealing aggro, you should use slow skills to give your tank a chance to really get mob attention. Also, if you have multiple targets and tanks on each one, you can switch targets with each attack. [by Cholla]

-don't attack 'unactivated' group of mobs with single attack skill >.< it s really good way to do much mess and get someone killed (vide: aggro heal)

-but you may attack group with your strong AoE skill if you sure you're tough enough to survive. Remember to not stop DDing without good reason - other party members will surely aggro mobs if you do so.

-don't attack pulled mob before barb aggro it - you just make barb's and cler's work harder.

-if you unintentionally aggroed something, don't run in random direction calling your mom; get to tank who should take mob off you; also never run off cleric heal range - no sane cler will leave party to heal you

-if you see tank is much lower or isnt barb then watch your dmg..

-dont use AoEs if barb dont use his and FR every single mob; how to guess how they look like? Roar demonstrate as counterclockwise spinning golden 'star' with aura on every mob (tanks use it on beginning, but mind it s just 'taunt' skill). Sometimes, tanks helps themsleves with other aoes that may cause aggro, but they arent very good at holding it (low dmg compared to DD skills). Most powerful aoe skill which tanks use is Sunder (dmg + bleed) which look like 'explosion of red crystals' (yes, i know about epicness of my skills descriptions :P)

-btw Flesh Realm (single, true aggro skill) looks like orange fire explosion on mob and minior one on barb





-if barb use Roar in middle of battle, then it probably mean something 'bad' is happening (new unwanted mobs joined, or old ones are loosing aggro) and you are suposed to stop DD [inspired by Baalbak]

-If you are trying to steal aggro to keep other people alive, use your fast skills (and save your slow AoEs for situations where you have no better alternative). [by Cholla]

-generally, you are not allowed to play hero if you are too squishy (weak, low hp). But there is one case - when cler is about to be attacked. It is really better for whole squad if you die than him. And your sacrifice will be appreciated

-stuns, sleep, paralize or any other immobilize skill will be handy when you want save someone.

-when veno is pulling, you are suposed to stay few meters behind barb (he need some space to catch mob) [inspired by Baalbak]

-DDs should always spread around tanked boss/mob if it is possible (but stay in heal range). It is way easier then to keep you alive if you steal aggro, because it s possible to notice it before you even get hit.

-also dont stand too close to mob/boss if you dont need too

-if you are causing aggro ping-pong in team then calm down- it is hard to heal you. IH need to be stacked to work well, and instant heals my be too weak/slow the keep you alive.

-when 'zhening' (killing many monsters at same time while cleric use Blue Ball) you are suposed to 'catch' mobs with your AoE before they hit cleric (BB aggro every mob in range). For example: bm with stun on physical mobs or wizzy with Dragon Breath on magical ones.
Yes, archers may use Barrage of Arrows on both..

- Archer's 79lvl skill Elven Alacrity doesn't aggro so you may use it if someone from your team is in trouble (f.e. chased by mobs while rushing).

-AoE buffs may cause aggro.

CLER TIPS

-learn to predict who will get hit - aggroed mob will try to get in range to hit victim and also turn front to him.

-pre-heal tank with 2-3 IHs, but dont do it when he is too close to mob - cancel heal with ESC

-healing too close to 'unactivated' mobs willl wake them up and aggro on you

-healing person that just 'activated' mob (didnt hit) will draw aggro on you immediately

-healing person who hit mob just once (and stoped) may cause aggro heal too; im not able to tell you precisely how much you can heal.. Regular mobs don't switch aggro too fast - but it is easier to annoy bosses.

-also remember when person aggro group of mobs by hitting one, rest mobs from this group act like just 'activated'

-healing luring veno will also draw aggro on you; wait till tank aggro mob (best if he uses Flesh Realm

-ask party members to spread around tanked mob/boss a bit (if it is possible/safe). You will have more time to react then. It is really hard to guess who you will have heal if DDs stand in same place or in one line..

-you will be next target of mobs if person who you heal die (unless somebody will be smart enough to steal them from you)

-if you aggroed mobs on yourself never attack them; use hp pots, p-shell, heals and try to get to tank if it is possible. Trick is to 'track' monster to tank, so he can get it off from you sooner.

-be aware that BB aggro

-so RB do too

-Seals also aggro, so rember if you decide to sleep monster who is running after someobody - you will be next target on mob's hate list.

-One skill that may be useful and doesn't steal aggro is Wings of Protection (79 lvl skill).

-Revive don't aggro, but remember to wait till mob/boss go far away enough so he wont aggro on revived person.

-Casting single-target buffs wont draw aggro.

-Purify will aggro.

-learn to check squad hp bars all the time and turn on 'showing buffs' option there (for purifing poisoned, burning or debuffed party member)

-btw use all your heals (well, okie - not that first one). You will use IH for most time but also - Wellspring Surge for low-hp chars and Stream of Rejuvenation to 'fix' tank's hp sometimes.

-on party wipe out situation you may consider setting up BB; but if you dont have it yet then.. act fast and rember to not get kill yourself You may also try AoE heal but mind it is slow - use if more than 3 squad members are getting hits

-ow, and your and tank's life is most important :P

-btw buffs, heals and rez to make your team-mates lifes easier.

VENO TIPS

-bramble just tanks; bramble reflect damage, so attacked squishy toon is keeping aggro mob

-casting bramble wont draw aggro on you

-mind that in some instances where player dmg is reduced (i.e. TT) your pet hit with same strength, and may steal aggro from tank. Turning off skills like bash may prevent it (don't use roar either).

-when you are luring inside BB range (15m) you may accidentally aggro more mobs.

-learn to lure: go in front of the squad, poke one mob with pet and hide it, run back to party

-but be aware some tanks are 'sleepy' and you will have to pull your pet again and catch mob before he hits you (safety trick)

-..but gotta also remember, that on ranged mobs your 'safety trick' may often make barb's work more difficult because your pet will catch mob before tank has chance to do it; just run down more than usually to get out of range of potential mob attack. [inspired by Baalbak]

-have one pet to lure (fast like: 60lvl rare Kowlin; 40lvl rare Cuddly Pup; 20lvl rare Tabby Plumdrop) and other to tank (17lvl Crystalline Magmite or new Glacial Walker is really great for tank and dmg)

-pass spark with Lending Hand to barb if you see he is often using skills that require chi (realm, devour on bosses) or invoke and sunder (uses 2 sparks!); he will ask for chi most times - but it is safer when he don't need to bother doing it

-it is also nice to chi cleric when he use BB (also 2 sparks) so he will be able to set it up again if boss cancel it; do it also in dungeon after he set up it in party wipe-out situation - maybe you all will need it again around next corner (but btw, barbs chi is more important)

-if your pet is strong enough, you should help to semi-tank mobs on pary wipe-out situation, or catch mob when tank miss it or cleric aggro heal

GENIE TIPS

-Alpha Male - works like barb's Roar skill: it reset aggro of all surrounding enemies and draw it on you. Also reflects p.dmg for short period of time (overwrite bramble). Useful for catching mobs (instant cast) also helpful after loosing aggro. Quite common skill among barbs and bms.

-Earthflame (default Zeal skilll) - pulling skill that dont aggro any mobs around target. Cleric will draw aggro on himself if start to heal puller.

-Skills that can be used on/or affect nonhostile units (i.e. Absolute Domain, Expel, Blazing Shield) dont draw aggro from them.

-Interrupting skills like Light Chaser or Earthquake will cause aggro since they also deal some dmg.

-Debuffing/seal skills will aggro too.

Xymantha - Dreamweaver

well put good sir!

Im gonna copy/paste this as well over on my faction's forums (well.. not this toon's faction - my main one, this is now my alt lol). I was just partied with a veno the other day on my Barb - and since we loose all chi upon entering the dungeon, I asked the veno if she could shoot me some spark. I was quite irked when she told me she wasnt gonna "waste her sp" on that skill. thats one veno that I know in the future not to take with me on high level runs. Sure I've got skills that can help to build chi, but sometimes you just run out when your DD's kill the mobs before you can regen the 25 chi you just spent using FR. Being able to start a boss fight with 2 sparks and full chi is nice also. anyhow, end rant. thanks for putting this up.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

yea, it s quite amazing that you still meet people that didnt get yet it is team-play game.. venos without chi-passing skill, low bramble, low amp or purge.. barbs with low hp buff or aggros.. clers with low heals, rez or buffs.. or any other class without team-buffs

and it s not about being well-mannered to have them and use them - simply, nobody will want to squad you if your team-support skills suck b:chuckle

like that veno example o0 prolly, had no idea what would happen if barb runs out of chi and wont be able to aggro boss/mobs anymore..

Waterfal - Sanctuary

great job

I once squadded with a barb who didn't lvl up the tigerform skills... cause 'they don't do enough damage' well.. not nice to be in a squad with -.-
Also I don't use foxform very often, but do have amp, purge and other usefull skills for on bosses. trying to lvl them up a bit, but skills get more and more expensive -.-

only I noticed this:
Lurer - usually venomancer with pet; if tank don't think that will be able to survive attack of few monsters, veno lure one mob from group (poke one with his pet and hide it) and tank catch it.

not a very big deal, but I just noticed lol. since it's usually a she b:chuckle

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

Waterfal - Sanctuary wrote: »

only I noticed this:
Lurer - usually venomancer with pet; if tank don't think that will be able to survive attack of few monsters, veno lure one mob from group (poke one with his pet and hide it) and tank catch it.

not a very big deal, but I just noticed lol. since it's usually a she b:chuckle

nuu! because all venos are g.i.r.l. :P

but okie, i ll fix it b:shy

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Might be worth mentioning that arcane classes (wizards and clerics, even veno's sometimes) are better at tanking certain bosses due to being able to get the boss to only use a smaller magic attack.

Otherwise, good stuff. Care to add some of it to the wiki guide?
http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Aggro

I kinda notice this is all from the pov of a barb - which is great. Nothing stimulates an archer more than realising other classes are being told to let them die if they do it wrong
But you're assuming things that other classes might not know and have no obvious way to learn. For example:
"Only if the barb is using their aoe". Great. Very rarely, in the middle of a group of mobs, will a barb be able to stop and tell you that's what they're doing. You might want to describe what the various different aggro skills *look* like.

And secondly, as a request to barbs (and I know I don't explain it well enough, often either) - if you're doing the switching aggro all over the place trick? Which is a GREAT trick, do keep doing that, but when you are...
It *really* helps your squad if you TELL them which is the main one, so they know which to go for.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Might be worth mentioning that arcane classes (wizards and clerics, even veno's sometimes) are better at tanking certain bosses due to being able to get the boss to only use a smaller magic attack.

True, but it is kinda rare, and at later lvls and i dont want to confuse newbies too much.. also still bit dangerous coz even if wizzy can tank fb59, some archer may steal aggro from him

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Otherwise, good stuff. Care to add some of it to the wiki guide?
http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Aggro

Well, im bit too lazy to edit it all again.. Could I just copy paste (most) tips from "TANK TIPS" to veno part? :P

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

But you're assuming things that other classes might not know and have no obvious way to learn. For example:
"Only if the barb is using their aoe". Great. Very rarely, in the middle of a group of mobs, will a barb be able to stop and tell you that's what they're doing. You might want to describe what the various different aggro skills *look* like.

Okie, i ll try to explain it but in simple way- tell me if it s enough and i dont need to wrtie bout every skill

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

I would add:
If you are a DD and are trying to steal aggro to keep other people alive, use your fast skills (and save your slow AoEs for situations where you have no better alternative).

If you are a DD and are trying to avoid stealing aggro, you should use slow skills to give your tank a chance to really get their attention. Also, if you have multiple targets and tanks on each one, you can switch targets with each attack.

okie


thx, for reps anyway b:victory

waiting for more

alyciana

I would just add that if a cleric has to res someone and they r close to a boss or mob, they need to wait for the boss/mob to move away far enough or the res will aggro the boss/mob to them.

Athalon - Dreamweaver

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

yea, it s quite amazing that you still meet people that didnt get yet it is team-play game.. venos without chi-passing skill, low bramble, low amp or purge.. barbs with low hp buff or aggros.. clers with low heals, rez or buffs.. or any other class without team-buffs

One of the reasons my very first skill to lv10 was Aura of the Golden Bell. b:victory

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

alyciana wrote: »

I would just add that if a cleric has to res someone and they r close to a boss or mob, they need to wait for the boss/mob to move away far enough or the res will aggro the boss/mob to them.

mmm true

adding

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

(this is Xymantha posting as barb)

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I kinda notice this is all from the pov of a barb - which is great. Nothing stimulates an archer more than realising other classes are being told to let them die if they do it wrong
But you're assuming things that other classes might not know and have no obvious way to learn. For example:
"Only if the barb is using their aoe". Great. Very rarely, in the middle of a group of mobs, will a barb be able to stop and tell you that's what they're doing. You might want to describe what the various different aggro skills *look* like.

"Roar" is a slower casting AoE "aggro" skill that can only be used once every 60 seconds. I use it if hell breaks loose. to draw the mobs back in towards me. it doesnt always catch all the mobs, especially if someone runs away from me while i cast it. This skill looks like swords stabbing into the mobs from above. This skill does no damage. Can be helpful to draw mobs back towards the tiger tank in order to switch targets back and forth to hit them with flesh ream. Normally if you see ME using this skill, I really want you to STOP attacking everything at once, until you see explosions (see below) from each of the mobs, so i can build up more threat on them. Roar doesn't hold agro as well as FR due to its cool down. Basically - I'd prefer no one AoE's anything until they see explosions from all mobs in group. That is, unless I'm tanking a low fb in human form and can swell/slam to attract everything.

Surf impact is a small aoe attack/speed reduction skill with an effective area of 4.4 meters around the targetted mob. Doesn't pull or hold agro. Looks like a white swirly circle around barb while channeling.

Flesh ream is the main aggro pulling/holding skill. Looks like an explosion on the targetted mob. Costs 25 chi to cast, 3 second cooldown

And secondly, as a request to barbs (and I know I don't explain it well enough, often either) - if you're doing the switching aggro all over the place trick? Which is a GREAT trick, do keep doing that, but when you are...
It *really* helps your squad if you TELL them which is the main one, so they know which to go for.

I normally tell my groups, especially if its my first time partying with them, to "assist attack" on my target via party list (and I do this for the veno's pull), or else wait for me to get aggro on all mobs - then pay attention to see which target im currently whacking. Unless I'm on vent - i cant take the time to say what I'm attacking currently.

---

party tips for pulling from my own experience:

everyone should stay behind the tank at all times, preferably a couple meters. there is no need to stand right beside/on top of me. Don't attack the mob before I do. if I haven't attacked it yet, theres a good reason for it - ranged mobs will always kite in the opposite direction from which its current aggresor is attacking it, which if you attack before i do will send it right back into the group of mobs it just got pulled from. And this is generally when i have to Roar to keep the party's butts alive.

Veno's job when pulling ranged mobs - send pet in to attack, stow it, then run away (out of its attacking range) and don't bother respawning pet till tank FR's the mob.

Barb's job when pulling ranged mobs - wait for it to get past you, then hit FR. This will make it kite AWAY from the group it just got pulled from. (smart)

Cleric's job when pulling ranged mobs - dont heal the veno before the barb aggros the mob - you can get ganked while the mob is still on the wrong side of me. Then, things can go wrong - making it run back into the group when i FR it.

Alacrity of the beast has a 50/50 chance of freezing it in place so i can get on the other side of it - but I'd rater play it safe.

Hazardus - Heavens Tear

Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

(this is Xymantha posting as barb)

"Roar" is a slower casting AoE "aggro" skill that can only be used once every 60 seconds. I use it if hell breaks loose. to draw the mobs back in towards me. it doesnt always catch all the mobs, especially if someone runs away from me while i cast it. This skill looks like swords stabbing into the mobs from above. This skill does no damage. Can be helpful to draw mobs back towards the tiger tank in order to switch targets back and forth to hit them with flesh ream. Normally if you see ME using this skill, I really want you to STOP attacking everything at once, until you see explosions (see below) from each of the mobs, so i can build up more threat on them. Roar doesn't hold agro as well as FR due to its cool down. Basically - I'd prefer no one AoE's anything until they see explosions from all mobs in group.

^^This!

I'd like to add that even at lvl10 Roar (looks like a large arrow going down the mobs' heads) is a very very weak aggro skill. It can just about overcome the cleric's healer aggro. If anyone so much as tickles one of those mobs before it has been fleshreamed, you will draw aggro.
When you see a barb roar, immediately stop any aoes and 'assist attack' the barb (he will be busy fleshreaming mobs).
Sunder is a good aoe skill to use. It does good damage and has a nice bleed and a heal to boot. It can be used in some situations to hold aggro on mobs (generally I use this after I have roared) if you have enough chi (needs 2 sparks) to spare.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

okie, gotta fix guide then a bit. always thought that roar is bit more powerful

and there was sposed to be sunder mentionet in tips originaly (coz of bleed effect) but not many barbs use it (2 sparks) and still dmgs is low compared to DD attacks


but anyway, dear fur balls, u gotta write here when it is good moment for DDs to use their aoes safely? (on many mobs on tank)

after, u FR every mob? i wud like to know when u are able to hold aggro, if DDs aoe

Exitium - Dreamweaver

Great thread, would recommend to any newbie or ppl who cause team wipes -.-

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

thx xD

---
aww and bout aoes and DD aoes, changed info in tip to DDs wait till thy see FR on everymob


still wud like to know more precisely way to guess when -as DD- cud i steal

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

okie, added most info here:

http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Aggro


and i would like know about aggro-reseting abilities of stun skills.. any bms, archers here?..

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Today's the first I've heard of this rumour.

What stun does, from lucky-scarab or when used by a pet with pounce at least:

The mob stops attacking. Their current channel is cancelled.

They keep holding their pose, looking like they are attacking whoever they were attack before the stun.
When the stun wears off they will then re-check their hate-list. Which means usually they hit whoever stunned them (stuns do seem to generate a big fat pile of hate over and above normal skills) But not always - sometimes I can out-aggro the pet during the stun and keep aggro on me so they re-attack me after the stun wears off.

No guarantee BM and archer stuns work the same way, mind you.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

well, i heard from stealing bms and archers sometimes that steal was caused by stun. But never checked that actualy. It mit be lazy barbs fault or/and just stun itself ('big fat pile of hate') + few hard hits just after..

Wonder what stuners have to say

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

God, I wish barbs I squad with would read this. BH51+Only Flesh Ream=NO.

Bumping this informative guide. Any mods wanna sticky it?

Hazardus - Heavens Tear

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

God, I wish barbs I squad with would read this. BH51+Only Flesh Ream=NO.

Actually in FB51, you can get by only on fleshream for aggro. I remember doing mine, with a lvl7 fleshream and a lvl1 roar.
You never meet more than 3 mobs at a time in there and so fleshreaming all three isn't too tough. Later FBs and specially TTs is where the aoe aggro is needed.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

and there was sposed to be sunder mentionet in tips originaly (coz of bleed effect) but not many barbs use it (2 sparks) and still dmgs is low compared to DD attacks

Yes it not a aggro skill by itself. If a barb can fleshream every mob (if theres only 2 to 4) he should do that. But if you have just roared on 7-8 mobs, fleshreaming each of them is difficult and someone may pull aggro. At such times, I sunder just after roaring, when all the mobs have come close to me. With all 8 mobs attacking me I can rebuild chi relatively quickly with beastial rage activated. DOnt just leave it to sunder to hold aggro, because it wont. Sunder just buys you time to fleshream each mob.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

but anyway, dear fur balls, u gotta write here when it is good moment for DDs to use their aoes safely? (on many mobs on tank)

after, u FR every mob? i wud like to know when u are able to hold aggro, if DDs aoe

I find the only way to hold aggro on all is fleshreaming each of them. Like I said earlier, sunder does buy me time to do that.

Its not a easy question to answer because it does depend on the squad with DD levels and skill levels. Generally the higher the level of the barb as compared to the DDs, the earlier they can start.

With a barb more than 3 levels lower than the DDs, they should wait till barb has fleshreamed mobs at least once.

The DDs should not, and I repeat NOT start their aoes, when they see the roar (arrows) animation. This means the barb has roared, and is drawing the mobs to him. If they aoe now they will pull aggro 100% even if they same level as barb. Wait till barb has fleshreamed them or used some other aoe attack before going to work with their aoes.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

51 is the place where DDs are just starting to discover the fun and insanity that AOE brings, though.

Sure, they get it wrong at first. But that makes it a good place for the tanks to learn, too, I think.

The wanderers etc. are another thing for the tanks to learn to cope with. (Though 39 has some wanderers too, they're mostly nowhere near as dangerous to casters as the ones in 51)

I don't think I've seen barbs in 51 use roar as an opening move (though I can see how that would work) - mostly when it is used it's been used to recover adds that have gone for the casters (due to aoe or being wanderers or some DD mistargeting or whatever)
No idea whether that approach is better or worse, I'm not the tank

Mkto - Heavens Tear

Great Guide/Tips i hope every noob can read it so they can learn at least something.

Just a Quick tip:

*This only works with mobs/boss that does physical directly damage (mobs that need to get to you in order to hit you). If u as cleric get heal aggro, or mobs decide to atk, DO NOT RUN AWAY FROM PARTY, just run directly into barb or tanker, untill he/she take the mob away. If the mob still following you first use Plume Shield and just keep runing in circles around your sqd untill someone notice u r been atk, usually 1 or 2 rounds around them will do the job. That u r runing around ur sqd doesn't mean u will not be able to heal, just stop and do AoE healing "Chromatic Healing Bean" that way u keep ur party alive and mainly the barb/tanker while u get back to IH him/her. This not only applies to cleric, any class can do it, works good on Wizards, Archers and some case venos while pet get mob.

*This is for Range Mobs like archers or any other who does AoE atks. If any range mob/boss atk u or simple u get heal agro, just run a little a bit away from the party and also run away from the AoE of the mob, that way he will be force to move around, once mob is following u try to make him go directly into the bar/tank so he can get it back. Try not to run to far away u will make all your sqd following u and probably ending in party wipeout. Same as before, it works for any class.

I hope this help someone....by experience runing around your sqd save my life couple of several times, and also is funny, while party doing hard job killing mobs, u just play run around escaping from mob, do a couple of flips and it get interesting b:laughb:cute

VidaLove - Heavens Tear

Good Tips thanks b:cute

xxxdsmer

something for the veno bit:

if you are going to try tanking in a squad (like i do sometimes with my herc or other pet) HAVE A MAXED FOR LVL AGRO SKILL, maybe even as many as you can (crystalline magmite with 4 bashes any1? lol) the agro holding WILL make you better tanking than not having agro skill(s) because it'll help your pet keep the mob/boss attention better, kinda like, but not as well as, a barb's agro skills.

agro is a must have if a veno's gona try and tank (which is why i swapped my herc's pounce for bash [currently lv4, maxed for my lvl]

and besides.. its much easier to quest with a pet / lvl a pet when the pet can keep the mob's attention (like my shadou cub that i took something off of to put on bash... i think it was pierce, so i could keep pounce for the stun on my cub)


but yea, this's probably a bit long to add into the guide, so maybe the OP or someone else can sum up my lengthy post and get all the importance of veno pet agro-ness into the 'guide' lol (if needed. heg, idk, the long version here may be better lol)

pet agro skills that i know for sure work: bash (the physical 1) and roar
pet agro skills that i think make agro (havent extensively tested): elemental bashes

P.S.: i've also used my eldergoth instead of my herc, because it has roar lv1 and bash lv4, which makes for a good strong agro combo of sorts, especially if the mob isnt going to live long (eldergoth's a bit squishy and requires a good amount of healing in longer battles). i'll use this pet because it can make alot more agro with those 2 skills back to back than a herc can with just bash4, usually only do this in a squad where there's 2+ ppl DDing and i can get 1v1 w/ a mob by pulling or w/e (more agro ftw)

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

mmm. since there is no 'space' to add such detailed info in short tips i ll just send readers to posts to get more info

dont wanna tmi poor newbies..

@Hazardus
i ll just add line 'to learn to combine FR with aoe skills to buy some time to build up aggro on many monsters'

@Mkto
ya, thats smart b:victory

@xxxdsmer
ya, i shud point that veno pets have aggro skills actualy.. and also remind when use them and when not..


btw
edit: rez dont aggro

YouStoleMyPi - Dreamweaver

I was reading your really great topic about aggro mechanics(b:victory) and I saw this part:

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

[*]mind that you and cleric are most important in squad and should die as last on party wipe out

Yes cleric should die at last, but not tank. There's an exemple: You have 2 clerics in squad(let's say the boss is freaking strong and 1 isn't enough), then one of them die(because of aoe or adds, what ever). In that case, the tank should tell to the DD and last cleric to run, then roar all mobs(or flesh ream boss if there's no adds) and hold aggro as long as he can then die like a herob:cry

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

lmao, well that wud be nice
also have seen hero bms or archers that took boss for a walk so cler have time to revive

never enough (smart) heroz :P


i ll change that tip a bit, coz i mean that if cleric die 1st then something went wrong for sure and everybody should think over what happened b:chuckle
and this concern situations when party is attacked by group of mobs and tank/dds dont pay enough attention and dont save cler's butt

YouStoleMyPi - Dreamweaver

That situation I told you about happened to me once and I like taking a walk with bosses in fbs . Well, what ever is the situation...the cleric(s) must survive, not the barbs, we are useless alive, we are here to take hits then die b:angry

Partyanimal - Raging Tide

Sticky.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

meh, not gonna happen. look at ultimate genie guide - 100k views and still no sticky

mods, why not topic named like 'useful guides' and few links there to tutorials? wud keep forum bit cleaner maybe.

there are sure few topics worth link - even if this is not b:sad

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

meh, not gonna happen. look at ultimate genie guide - 100k views and still no sticky

mods, why not topic named like 'useful guides' and few links there to tutorials? wud keep forum bit cleaner maybe.

there are sure few topics worth link - even if this is not b:sad

If you wanted to make a topic named "useful guides" and if you kept it well organized, and up-to-date, I imagine the mods would sticky it for you.