Anniversary Pack Discussion

chelseacrafter

LeirtA - Lost City wrote: »

I'm not here to have a life. I'm here to play a game to get away from real life for a while.

I trust the majority of everyone is here to do the same. If the game were to emulate real life, what's the point of playing a game?

Hello? MMORPG = Massively Multiplayer Role Playing Game and not as someone had stated Mostly Men Online Roleplaying Girls.

OH brother... then let me suggest you get one first. <rolls eyes>

Are you alive when you play? Duh.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

chelseacrafter wrote: »

And... I don't believe for one tiny second that most of the players are too young to understand how the PWI economy & market works. I'm not blind. I watch kids wheeling & dealing all the time like little hustlers on the game. They know very well how it works.

Next you all will tell me no one on PWI knows how to play Monopoly! Give me a break.

Actualy, they will tell you that "its not their fault" and that "its not fair" and that somehow "people owe them something". That will be followed with "why should I have to pay attention" and "insert random leet speaking insult here"

After that they will say that it is the fault of the "greedy gold sellers", and ask you if you want to buy BH79 wines for 400k each. Or maybe a dust of stars for 1.5mil... after all, they put some effort to get those things, so they should be able to charge as much as they want for them.... and "its all the greedy gold sellers fault anyway"

Than they will go on a emorageqq posting spree, saying how horrible the packs are, and how nobody likes them, and how unfair it is that they bough 9800 of them and got only tokens, while some cash shopper kid only got 5 and got a lunar weapon, and how they are horrible, and how nobody is buying them.

Personal accountability is a rare show.....

Quilue - Sanctuary

chelseacrafter wrote: »

I completely fail to see any logic in this. That's like saying a grocery store would never have any new customers unless it offered anyone who wanted free food for life to come & just take away their goods free. LOL How do you think ANY business operates & expands to new customers? LOL It certainly isn't by saying you have a choice to pay us or just not pay us for our product! b:chuckle

this game is advertised as free to play. any new players coming into the game is expecting to play for free. if you can't get over that, don't advertise the damn game as free to play.

that means everyone and their mother installs the game and immediately starts cash shopping right? without a large free to play playerbase your game is as good as dead, because that just means no new players are coming in. read: no new players expect to come in and cash shop heavily. that's just stupid. people get used to p2p games where you pay like 12 bucks a month, not spend hundreds in a span of weeks to suddenly keep up with the latest pvpers.

Bladecutter - Sanctuary

chelseacrafter wrote: »

I completely fail to see any logic in this. That's like saying a grocery store would never have any new customers unless it offered anyone who wanted free food for life to come & just take away their goods free. LOL How do you think ANY business operates & expands to new customers? LOL It certainly isn't by saying you have a choice to pay us or just not pay us for our product! b:chuckle

no, ill use the same example for ya

That's like saying a grocery store would never have any new customers unless they let them go inside the store before buying.

Kilala - Lost City

are the packs here for good? why wont a gm answer that question?

chelseacrafter

Aiyamii - Lost City wrote: »

I believe the event was a good idea at first.. But when it was one month long... all the cash shoppers abused it and gained much of what took many players a long time to earn and have lost a lot of loyal players. The game now is a shadow of it's former self... and I really dislike how the whole game is now centered around getting things with no effort and totally destroying the whole point of earning new gears.

And what irks me the most is that it's back again and again..? what is PWI thinking? Do they really want to destroy this game?

So let me see... essentially your saying it's all about petty jealousy.

So when did you get your first clue that there are people in life who have a lot more than you do?

What else? Should all our mounts go the same slow speed just to be fair? How about super inventory stones? I mean we wouldn't want to be unfair to those who had to do quests to get their expansion slots.

So... over half the people on here refuse to pay a dime to play... but they hate the people who pay for them to have a free game and resent the fact we have more.

and you think this is moral?

eatwithspoons

Kilala - Lost City wrote: »

are the packs here for good? why wont a gm answer that question?

I doubt they're permanent, or else there would be no end time listed, in this case, it's going to end sometime this month from what I've been told.

chelseacrafter

Bladecutter - Sanctuary wrote: »

no, ill use the same example for ya

That's like saying a grocery store would never have any new customers unless they let them go inside the store before buying.

Sorry... no offense but that doesn't make any sense & isn't relevant to the discussion I was having. I don't get it.

chelseacrafter

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

this game is advertised as free to play. any new players coming into the game is expecting to play for free. if you can't get over that, don't advertise the damn game as free to play.

that means everyone and their mother installs the game and immediately starts cash shopping right? without a large free to play playerbase your game is as good as dead, because that just means no new players are coming in. read: no new players expect to come in and cash shop heavily. that's just stupid. people get used to p2p games where you pay like 12 bucks a month, not spend hundreds in a span of weeks to suddenly keep up with the latest pvpers.

Where do you get all THAT from what I said? Who said anything about spending a ton of money in the cash shop?

Play free all you want. Just stop acting like paying players are supposed to get nothing for the money they spend. We pay for non-payers to play.

Why is it essential that you "keep up" with other players? If you want to have nice things buy them like everyone else does. It's that simple. Hey I'd like to have a Porsche but I don't go hating on people that can afford one just because I can't.

Why should everyone be your clone & have to go without just because you do? That's not reasonable.

Krisnda - Lost City

eatwithspoons wrote: »

I doubt they're permanent, or else there would be no end time listed, in this case, it's going to end sometime this month from what I've been told.

how much do you think people with spare anni packs willl sell them for after they leave the cash shop?

eatwithspoons

I have no clue really, it all depends on the details of what new stuff is coming with the expansion b:shocked

Bowlinbob - Lost City

Krisnda - Lost City wrote: »

how much do you think people with spare anni packs willl sell them for after they leave the cash shop?

Gms wouldnt know. the players set the price of packs. But the price will go up if they do leave the cash shop

EvylBlood - Heavens Tear

Stop With The Anniversary Packs The Anniversary Is Over Already >.>

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

OK so a GM doesnt know when the packs are leaving.

This makes things very difficult to plan in the way of when we need to charge zhen and how much time we have to make best use of the sale.


Suppose that the anni packs are ending later this month. Is there any guaranteed amount of time you can give us warning?

I mean can you guarantee you will warn us a couple days before or a week before the packs are removed? I don't think any of us wants to be blindsided again.

chelseacrafter

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actualy, they will tell you that "its not their fault" and that "its not fair" and that somehow "people owe them something". That will be followed with "why should I have to pay attention" and "insert random leet speaking insult here"

After that they will say that it is the fault of the "greedy gold sellers", and ask you if you want to buy BH79 wines for 400k each. Or maybe a dust of stars for 1.5mil... after all, they put some effort to get those things, so they should be able to charge as much as they want for them.... and "its all the greedy gold sellers fault anyway"

Than they will go on a emorageqq posting spree, saying how horrible the packs are, and how nobody likes them, and how unfair it is that they bough 9800 of them and got only tokens, while some cash shopper kid only got 5 and got a lunar weapon, and how they are horrible, and how nobody is buying them.

Personal accountability is a rare show.....

Well on WC the other day a player (who will remain nameless) was going off about how everyone is so stupid to buy gold at 500k per. She ranted for a while & then a few minutes later up pops a trade message.. she wants to sell her leather outfit. So I very politely asked her how much & she wouldn't say. So then I very politely asked her if she sold her items for the current gold market value of 500k per gold spent to buy the item. At that point she became very hostile, defensive & verbally abusive. I explained that I just was curious because for months now she had been telling everyone to stop buying gold on AH so prices will return to normal.

I find this very typical with those who are so upset over the gold rate & the anniversary packs.

Bladecutter - Sanctuary

does anyone by chance knows how much till theyre out? i found nice the sale of plat charm... but with those prices at gold its still too expensive

Miugre - Heavens Tear

chelseacrafter wrote: »

1. This notion of "I don't care about how things work I just want them to work automatically to my advantage" comes with it's own set of disabilities for people who adopt it & they need to realize ignorance has it's price.

It's not about ignorance, it's about the point of PWI - that being, a game and not some kind of business simulator. I could spend my days running a virtual business on PWI and making ridiculous amounts of money for ridiculous endgame gear, but I'd consider that a pretty shallow existance in the long run; I consider myself a casual player. Apparently, because of that, I'm supposed to put up with getting shafted on gold prices.

chelseacrafter wrote: »

2. The same people complaining about inflation & demanding we boycott gold sellers turn right around and sell their own items at high prices just so they get their share of the pie. Most of these people never buy zen/gold.

I don't favor a boycott, I favor PWI removing the Anni Packs, the Chests of Coins, and toning down the sales... then implementing various things to lower the price of gold gradually (ZEN bonus sales to start, then other more creative measures possibly including temporary gold price caps).

I've not bought a single piece of gold since the Anni Packs came out. Actually with the exception of a single piece at around 200k, I haven't bought any gold since it was 120k.

If I were selling something I already own? Yes, I would have to sell at the ridiculous market price unless I could sell it to a trusted friend. Why? Because if I sold it to a stranger, they'd turn around and sell it for market price.

chelseacrafter wrote: »

3. Free objects that drop from monsters costing outrageous prices like wine mats & DQ play just as large a role in inflation. And it's a total scam. Why the heck should I pay 16k for ONE little hay drop that the person got free just for grinding & got EXP for grinding. And they get rich doing it & they make a whole business of it. So don't blame PWI for the greed that is rampant in the game & causing inflation. The only greed I see is in the players.

PWE didn't cause it, they just facilitated it. There was no reason for gold to inflate to 200k until Chests of Coins, and no reason for it to inflate to 400-500k before the Anni Packs. It's simple math that the Chests of Coins would create an artificial floor on gold at around 190k. I find it unfathomable that the entire marketing and exec team at PWE could fail to do this simple math, therefore I must conclude that this was an example of the negligence I mentioned.

The Anni Packs aren't as clear-cut in the math, but it's the same basic principle. At the very least they should've noticed how screwed up the economy got the first time they were released and endeavored not to repeat their mistake. .....oops?

As far as non-gold commodities like Hay go, I agree with you there... although honestly that could be very free-market based. Hay is hard to come by, and every Venomancer and their mother is hellbent on getting 20 of them before they could feasibly grind for them. Recipe for disaster, if you ask me. XD

chelseacrafter wrote: »

]3. Gold still costs the same amount of real life money it always has. So there is no inflation to those who use their real life money. The inflation starts in AH & radiates outward from there. Go look at the gold trade. Buyers make OFFERS. Sellers don't demand prices. So the ones setting the prices are buyers not sellers. And so WHY do the prices go up? Why do players outbid each others' offers for gold? What incentive do buyers have to volunteer to pay more than the last guy? It's totally ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason to make a higher bid on gold. The gold seller is going to sell their gold for whatever rate the buyer chooses. So why doesn't everyone bid $200 & stop out bidding anyone? There is no incentive to outbid someone. It's just outright stupidity.

We both know that sellers and buyers both have influence, because sellers make offers, too. Sellers can only "bid" by offering a lower price on their gold in the hopes that people will pick up on their gold first. Conversely, buyers "bid" higher than each other in hopes that the sellers pick up on them instead of the other guy. This is pretty elementary, here, so I'm not sure where you're getting your ideas about bidding.

Also, we're talking about f2p players here. The exchange rate to real-life money is virtually irrelevant to this type of discussion.

chelseacrafter wrote: »

4. Your claim that ALL players are/were positive & productive is completely illogical. First of all I know a lot of free players & not one of them even knows how to buy gold on AH. They all use catshops to buy things... there's the problem right there... middlemen. Second of all, gold sellers are not benevolent benefactors... no one ever asks the question "if they have all that zen/gold why do they need my coins". LOL

The middlemen are greedy, yeah, but it's not like they're total parasites on the economy. When their supply dwindles, they still need to buy gold (assuming they sell gold items since that's what you're talking about here), thereby aiding the gold sellers.

You've never met a free player who knows how to use the gold system? What do you do, hang out in the starting villages all day? :P

chelseacrafter wrote: »

5. Gold sellers are a minority. They have financial limitations like everyone...even the rich ones. Therefore the idea of non-payers buying gold from them & thus injecting more real life money into the game is false. There is a limit to how much they can & will purchase. Therefore that limits company profits & harms the game in the long run. Free players are still freeloading to some degree even if they buy gold from sellers.

Not really. All the gold trade is, is a way to legitimize paying real money for virtual coin. Sellers will sell at the current market price whether or not they like it... whether that's 500k or 100k.

But as for injecting money into PWE (which is what's happening... buying gold only really injects items into the game, not so much coin), there's no denying that Anni Packs sent PWE's profits into orbit in September. For what other conceivable reason would they bring them back admist their unpopularity (and then have the nerve to claim they're back by "popular demand")? You have to believe that some of the gold sellers decided to capitalize on the newly-inflated prices.

chelseacrafter wrote: »

Every single economic issue being complained about has it's root cause in player greed, ignorance, laziness & freeloading off paying players. PWI can't fix any of that because all those things are matters within the heart of the player. What do you want? PWI to brainwash everyone & make everyone into logical, intelligent, resourceful & independent people?

As mentioned above, I want PWI to get rid of the packs, the coin chests, and the constant sales. They were doing fine as a business before the coin chests, and with the profits they've made recently, they should be able to handle a few weeks of slow business and let the economy calm down.

I'm not saying greed or ignorance isn't present, but the big gold hikes can be clearly attributed to PWI's sales, events, and item addition. Why is it always free-market principle to blame the little guy for everything? -_-

Kilala - Lost City

eatwithspoons wrote: »

I doubt they're permanent, or else there would be no end time listed, in this case, it's going to end sometime this month from what I've been told.

cool, cuz they kind of make the game pointless if they stay up.I always thought u had to earn yor end game gear,weapon,rep so on

Nelanther - Lost City

Gold hiking sales and events are the new norm. The packs may go away, but they will be replaced with something that has the same effect. The game is trying to turn itself into a pay to play game. Well, i guess its not even pay to play.. more like pay to 'right click'.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

this is why i fear the new expansion...we may get rid of the ani packs, but there is bound to be something else in the expansion that will take its place in driving up prices. of course, i have no clue what it will be, but having been here for a year, i have seen the trends....

Nelanther - Lost City wrote: »

Gold hiking sales and events are the new norm. The packs may go away, but they will be replaced with something that has the same effect. The game is trying to turn itself into a pay to play game. Well, i guess its not even pay to play.. more like pay to 'right click'.

Kilala - Lost City

Nelanther - Lost City wrote: »

Gold hiking sales and events are the new norm. The packs may go away, but they will be replaced with something that has the same effect. The game is trying to turn itself into a pay to play game. Well, i guess its not even pay to play.. more like pay to 'right click'.

thats true, free to down load but its not free to actually play b:victory

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Kilala - Lost City wrote: »

thats true, free to down load but its not free to actually play b:victory

sigh.... if you do not charge any Zen, does your account get blocked and you unable to log in at the end of the month?

I don't think so. The game is free to play, if you choose to spend money to get the latest fashion or whatever does not chance the fact that you do not have to pay for the game.

Don't confuse having to pay to choosing to pay.

Besides, you can buy gold with in-game coin, so it truely can be a free game, if you choose to play that way.

PS - The AnyPacks really need to make an exit... it is way pass the anniversary date now..

rayne36

"They have not shown gross negligence of the game's economy. Actually players show gross ignorance about how to operate a free market system within the game & do the most damage to themselves by misplacing value of certain objects in the game" - The person who said this is very smart.

Player value is very different than in game value, and I liked that this game used pretty low numbers. Until I saw what people did with gold...

The players, both cash shoppers and free players alike, have caused this problem. It will take everyone to fix this. But as I said in a previous post, almost nobody who uses the cash shop exclusively will care. They wil continue to kill low level players as well as shunning their advancement and knowledge of the game. They don't post on here for a reason.

The rate hikers however, (namely everyone who decides the player value of an item is worth 10 times more than the in game value), are only making this worse for themselves and for others. They will continue to have to sell their goods for continuously higher prices to compensate for the market they created. The new players will continue to struggle while others leave entirely.

Need I remind people of the historical Coca Cola scam? They removed Coke from the market and introduced "New Coke". It was terrible, people loathed it and the owners of Coke wanted them to loathe it. Because when they brought out "Coke Classic" they made millions.

The anniversary pack isn't much different and the upcoming expansion may have something to do with this, or new paid content (or something else) that may reduce Gold prices AND still make them ludicrous amounts of money.
(I think they may have kept them around not just for money grabbing, but maybe also for paying overtime hours to programmers and translators for the expansion. The past 7 or so updates have all been expansion related. Anyway...)

I'm going to keep my catshop prices low, reasonable, and affordable. You should to. QUIT WHINING AND TAKE ACTION

Homaru - Harshlands

Kilala - Lost City wrote: »

thats true, free to down load but its not free to actually play b:victory

It is free to play. It's a great marketing scheme because by the rule books they're are free to play. However, you have to spend money to compete with the average player.

Packs are not popular demand. The fact that they silenced Duke's yelling is evidence enough of this.

Frijolero - Sanctuary

Krisnda - Lost City wrote: »

how much do you think people with spare anni packs willl sell them for after they leave the cash shop?

First they need to leave from the Cash Shop. And by the way things are going, it doesn't looks it's gonna happen before armageddon b:angry

Homaru - Harshlands

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

this is why i fear the new expansion...we may get rid of the ani packs, but there is bound to be something else in the expansion that will take its place in driving up prices. of course, i have no clue what it will be, but having been here for a year, i have seen the trends....

b:cry Greed never fails.

Jhaernyl - Heavens Tear

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

sigh.... if you do not charge any Zen, does your account get blocked and you unable to log in at the end of the month?

Plus unlike other free to play games you are not capped at a lower level than those who pay, or are excluded from any content because you dont charge $.

EVERY thing in PW is open to those who dont pay a dime, granted atm they have to work a little bit harder for it, but you still havent lost the option to obtain items or use all the games content

Homaru - Harshlands

Jhaernyl - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Plus unlike other free to play games you are not capped at a lower level than those who pay, or are excluded from any content because you dont charge $.

EVERY thing in PW is open to those who dont pay a dime, granted atm they have to work a little bit harder for it, but you still havent lost the option to obtain items or use all the games content

What about event mounts that you can only get if you buy game cards?

Jhaernyl - Heavens Tear

Homaru - Harshlands wrote: »

What about event mounts that you can only get if you buy game cards?

Are they non tradeable ? if not then you can get one with ingame coin

rayne36

Homaru - Harshlands wrote: »

What about event mounts that you can only get if you buy game cards?

Thank you for your realism. I don't have 40 million to spend on a Galactic Beetle. Do you? Didn't think so...