New Type of Weapon

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver

I think it would be nice to have a new type of magic weapon. I'm thinking of something that would have a medium m.atk with a higher p.atk. Now, the only class that could take full advantage of it would be Venos using fox form since Clerics and Wizards have zero p.atk skills. But that's sort of the point. Fox form has gimpy damage currently and we can't take full advantage of it. It requires a magic weapon to be used and they have pitiful p.atk (bare handed CAN be used, but, let's face it, even magic weapons have better p.atk than that) and fox form freezes your gear so you can't switch out to a better melee weapon. I know someone will say "add more STR if you're so worried about it" but why give up all your pet heal ability to do that? This would give Venos the ability to play both paths, instead of just one, for their class to their full extent.

As for what the weapons would actually be, I'll leave that up for debate. Personally, I'm in favor of a spinner. If you know who Marta Lualdi is, then you'll know what I mean.

Bowlinbob - Lost City

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think it would be nice to have a new type of magic weapon. I'm thinking of something that would have a medium m.atk with a higher p.atk. Now, the only class that could take full advantage of it would be Venos using fox form since Clerics and Wizards have zero p.atk skills. But that's sort of the point. Fox form has gimpy damage currently and we can't take full advantage of it. It requires a magic weapon to be used and they have pitiful p.atk (bare handed CAN be used, but, let's face it, even magic weapons have better p.atk than that) and fox form freezes your gear so you can't switch out to a better melee weapon. I know someone will say "add more STR if you're so worried about it" but why give up all your pet heal ability to do that? This would give Venos the ability to play both paths, instead of just one, for their class to their full extent.

As for what the weapons would actually be, I'll leave that up for debate. Personally, I'm in favor of a spinner. If you know who Marta Lualdi is, then you'll know what I mean.

1st off... you should learn the game before you start topics like this.

Your honestly saying venos need even more special items?

Ever hear of Plume Shot/Razor Feathers?(clerics) Blade Tempest?(wiz) <- physical attacks


I personally am fine with magic weapons.. It would be nice however to have some magic weapons with special effects. Like berzerk axes.. some bows that archers have that removes buffs... etc.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »

1st off... you should learn the game before you start topics like this.

Your honestly saying venos need even more special items?

Ever hear of Plume Shot/Razor Feathers?(clerics) Blade Tempest?(wiz) <- physical attacks


I personally am fine with magic weapons.. It would be nice however to have some magic weapons with special effects. Like berzerk axes.. some bows that archers have that removes buffs... etc.

But BBob, those effects only activate when you use regular melee attacks... so, unless you were a veno i fox form, you would not be able to make the "berserk" or "gloom" or "stun" activate on the weapon....

@OP 4 magic weapons + all the other weapons except for slingshots is quite enough weapons.....
We do not have gimped damage in fox form.. Magic swords have the one of fastest attack speed in-game (after fists/claws), and with the accuracy bonus from fox form, we do not miss that often either.

Bowlinbob - Lost City

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But BBob, those effects only activate when you use regular melee attacks... so, unless you were a veno i fox form, you would not be able to make the "berserk" or "gloom" or "stun" activate on the weapon....

well i meant this on a totally different way i guess <_<

I wasnt trying to say we should have the berserk skill, that would make casters too op since we dont miss. But was just suggesting (a chance) of some sort of special effect when we attack with a spell. Maybe a chance for an extra 20% reduced channeling for 5 seconds or somethin? unno :x

Accelerated - Sanctuary

L2PlayURClass.

Get a pair of fists or a claw weapon, they're physical weapons that deal physical damage and you can use them to transform into a fox.
b:bye

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Accelerated - Sanctuary wrote: »

L2PlayURClass.

Get a pair of fists or a claw weapon, they're physical weapons that deal physical damage and you can use them to transform into a fox.
b:bye

mmmm you need to use a magic weapon or barehand to change into fox....

@Bob that would be cool, or a change to regain 5% MP or something like that

Accelerated - Sanctuary

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

mmmm you need to use a magic weapon or barehand to change into fox....

Fist and Claw are considered bare handed.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Accelerated - Sanctuary wrote: »

Fist and Claw are considered bare handed.

<slaps forehead> you are right lol, I forgot about that

DarkSniper - Lost City

But BBob, those effects only activate when you use regular melee attacks... so, unless you were a veno i fox form, you would not be able to make the "berserk" or "gloom" or "stun" activate on the weapon....

Wrong I've had gloom activate while using barrage.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

DarkSniper - Lost City wrote: »

Wrong I've had gloom activate while using barrage.

You sure? I was pretty sure they worked like the elemental shards, where they only affect regular hits......

May have to log on my barb and test it..... I think my weapon has one of thos obvious effects.

Accelerated - Sanctuary

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You sure? I was pretty sure they worked like the elemental shards, where they only affect regular hits......

May have to log on my barb and test it..... I think my weapon has one of thos obvious effects.

Yes, he's correct, additional skills proc by physical attack, whether or not they're ranged or melee doesn't matter as long as it's physical.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Accelerated - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes, he's correct, additional skills proc by physical attack, whether or not they're ranged or melee doesn't matter as long as it's physical.

Thank you for confirming.

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver

Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »

1st off... you should learn the game before you start topics like this.

Your honestly saying venos need even more special items?

Ever hear of Plume Shot/Razor Feathers?(clerics) Blade Tempest?(wiz) <- physical attacks

That's physical DAMAGE based on m.atk. So no, Clerics and Wizards wouldn't benefit from my idea.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

@OP 4 magic weapons + all the other weapons except for slingshots is quite enough weapons.....
We do not have gimped damage in fox form.. Magic swords have the one of fastest attack speed in-game (after fists/claws), and with the accuracy bonus from fox form, we do not miss that often either.

Alright, maybe GIMPED was a bad word choice. The point I was trying to get across was that it wasn't as great as it could be.

Accelerated - Sanctuary wrote: »

L2PlayURClass.

Get a pair of fists or a claw weapon, they're physical weapons that deal physical damage and you can use them to transform into a fox.
b:bye

I've tried that path and it doesn't work. Maybe it did in the past, but the present is what I'm looking at.

Seablue - Sanctuary

You forgot something: venos in fox form can have an increase in 120% weapon damage with lvl 10 melee mastery. That's twice the amount of BM and barbs weapon mastery 60% not to mention with less cost. That kind of make up for the damage no?

weapon damage of a TT90 magic sword (attack rate 1.25)
411-616
after melee mastery
904.2-1355.2
average weapon damage
2259.4

weapon damage of a TT90 blade (attack rate 1.11)
494-918
after blade/sword mastery
790.4-1468.8
average weapon damage
2259.2

Pretty close wouldn't you say? Of course BMs and barbs will still win out with the amount of strength and refines. But seriously venos already have a good enough deal in fox form (increased accuracy and phy defense). If you wear heavy armor you already have the potential to have the pdef of a fully buffed bm with lvl10 p marrow and accuracy of a vit barb with lvl10 bloodbath both without the side effects of decreased mdef and hp. I really don't think venos need anymore special stuff.

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver

Seablue - Sanctuary wrote: »

You forgot something: venos in fox form can have an increase in 120% weapon damage with lvl 10 melee mastery. That's twice the amount of BM and barbs weapon mastery 60% not to mention with less cost. That kind of make up for the damage no?

weapon damage of a TT90 magic sword (attack rate 1.25)
411-616
after melee mastery
904.2-1355.2
average weapon damage
2259.4

weapon damage of a TT90 blade (attack rate 1.11)
494-918
after blade/sword mastery
790.4-1468.8
average weapon damage
2259.2

Pretty close wouldn't you say? Of course BMs and barbs will still win out with the amount of strength and refines. But seriously venos already have a good enough deal in fox form (increased accuracy and phy defense). If you wear heavy armor you already have the potential to have the pdef of a fully buffed bm with lvl10 p marrow and accuracy of a vit barb with lvl10 bloodbath both without the side effects of decreased mdef and hp. I really don't think venos need anymore special stuff.

No, I didn't forget about fox forms attack increase. Yes, those numbers come close, but they can be BETTER with weapons designed for physical attacks. Why shouldn't we be able to take FULL advantage of half of our skills? I'd like someone to tell me.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

I want some TNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ikurei - Dreamweaver

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No, I didn't forget about fox forms attack increase. Yes, those numbers come close, but they can be BETTER with weapons designed for physical attacks. Why shouldn't we be able to take FULL advantage of half of our skills? I'd like someone to tell me.

Seablue - Sanctuary wrote: »

weapon damage of a TT90 magic sword (attack rate 1.25)
411-616
after melee mastery
904.2-1355.2
average weapon damage
2259.4

weapon damage of a TT90 blade (attack rate 1.11)
494-918
after blade/sword mastery
790.4-1468.8
average weapon damage
2259.2

That's why.

Yes, the numbers come close. The average damage of a magic weapon comes close the the average damage of a melee weapon after the mastery skills are maxed and you want more?b:bye

Edit: I'd also like to point out that venos have a ****ton of debuffs and ****.

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver

Ikurei - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That's why.

Yes, the numbers come close. The average damage of a magic weapon comes close the the average damage of a melee weapon after the mastery skills are maxed and you want more?b:bye

"Coming close" is in no way full advantage of the skill tree. You can take full advantage of the defense increase by going HA, but where does that leave your attack? You end up having to use a weapon far lower than your level, thus killing your damage. Or you can sacrifice your defense for mediocre damage.

Look at Blademasters. They have FOUR skill paths to choose from and no matter what route they choose, they get to take full advantage of everything they have before them. Even Barbarians get to use their tiger tree to its full potential. Venomancers are basically being told "you're a caster class with some melee stuff to play with every now and then." Why can't we have the same opportunities to use everything with no hindrances?

Now, I've tried to be nice about this whole thing. But if you can't understand the logic behind all this, then I'll thank you to not post here anymore.

daphkate

Venos can techincally do a barbs job. No offense intended on the barbs.
We have pets.
On the numbers they forgot to add the pets damage. So if you take the compared numbers and add the pets damage fox venos do much more damage then blademasters. Which is why, venos are limited to their fox form skills and weapons.
Venomancers have much more caster class skills, why not just use those? Venos aren't meant to be tanks so why use the fox form to do a lot of damage to hold aggro? Our pet and/or barbs can do that job.

Don't go telling people not to post here just because your angry pretty much everyone did not like the idea. If you post things in the Suggestion Box expect people who don't like it.

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver

daphkate wrote: »

Venos can techincally do a barbs job. No offense intended on the barbs.
We have pets.
On the numbers they forgot to add the pets damage. So if you take the compared numbers and add the pets damage fox venos do much more damage then blademasters. Which is why, venos are limited to their fox form skills and weapons.
Venomancers have much more caster class skills, why not just use those? Venos aren't meant to be tanks so why use the fox form to do a lot of damage to hold aggro? Our pet and/or barbs can do that job.

Don't go telling people not to post here just because your angry pretty much everyone did not like the idea. If you post things in the Suggestion Box expect people who don't like it.

Then why give the option of using fox skills at all? If Venomancers were never meant to be able to do that, why provide the potential to do it?

I AM a caster Venomancer. But what happens in cases of multiple aggro? What happens if the pet or Barbarian dies? What if the pet or Barbarian lose aggro and SOMEONE needs to save the Cleric? Venomancers have the potential of being a better back up tank than a Blademaster, so why can't we use put that potential to use? As Kira Yamato once said, "There's no point in having potential if you never use it."

No, I'm not angry that people don't like my idea. If they don't like it, fine, more power to them. But what really gets to me is that they shoot my idea down without understanding, or the willingness to understand, the reasons behind it. They can throw numbers around all day and say "it's close" but it's the same thing as a football coach saying "oh well, it's close" when his team gets to the 5 yard line.

daphkate

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Then why give the option of using fox skills at all? If Venomancers were never meant to be able to do that, why provide the potential to do it?

While in fox form, the venomancer is more of a support unit, it debuffs the mob or boss or whatever, stuns it whatever you can think of. Thats the point of the fox form, to support the tanker.

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I AM a caster Venomancer. But what happens in cases of multiple aggro? What happens if the pet or Barbarian dies? What if the pet or Barbarian lose aggro and SOMEONE needs to save the Cleric? Venomancers have the potential of being a better back up tank than a Blademaster, so why can't we use put that potential to use? As Kira Yamato once said, "There's no point in having potential if you never use it."

In cases of multiple aggro, if you cant take it, run. If the pet or barb dies, run, unless it's a fb, then sure try and take the aggro, but as I said above, in fox form venos are meant to support. If someone needs to save the cleric, leave it to a higher damage dealer class.

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No, I'm not angry that people don't like my idea. If they don't like it, fine, more power to them. But what really gets to me is that they shoot my idea down without understanding, or the willingness to understand, the reasons behind it. They can throw numbers around all day and say "it's close" but it's the same thing as a football coach saying "oh well, it's close" when his team gets to the 5 yard line.

If a venomancer deals a bit higher numbers than a blademaster in fox form, then your getting what you asked for, but you already had it to begin with. It all depends on the build of the venomancer.
And people understand the reasons behind it. You want the fox form of venomancers to deal more damage.

Ikurei - Dreamweaver

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver wrote: »

"Coming close" is in no way full advantage of the skill tree. You can take full advantage of the defense increase by going HA, but where does that leave your attack? You end up having to use a weapon far lower than your level, thus killing your damage. Or you can sacrifice your defense for mediocre damage.

Look at Blademasters. They have FOUR skill paths to choose from and no matter what route they choose, they get to take full advantage of everything they have before them. Even Barbarians get to use their tiger tree to its full potential. Venomancers are basically being told "you're a caster class with some melee stuff to play with every now and then." Why can't we have the same opportunities to use everything with no hindrances?

Now, I've tried to be nice about this whole thing. But if you can't understand the logic behind all this, then I'll thank you to not post here anymore.

Or the 'use lower level armor in exchange for pretty good damage before you factor in pet damage' option. You get a 120% bonus to physical defense from maxed fox form (150% if you choose to go sage) which is, in my opinion, quite a lot. Sure, BMs have that physical defense buff but you can get that from a BM. Last time I checked, a BM can't switch to fox form and get a 120% (again, 150% if you choose to go sage) bonus. OK, so you can't get the barb's Shapeshifting Intensity. So what? Barbs are supposed to have the highest physical defense/HP anyway. And if you're defense is still lower than you'd like then use Befuddling Mist (-70% accuracy when maxed). Yes, magic doesn't miss but you're not wearing heavy armor for the magic resistance now are you?

If you use a magic weapon appropriate for you level then your damage will be pretty damn good once you include the 120% increased damage from Melee Mastery (sage version gives 200%). Now add your pet's damage.

A ****load of defense and accuracy boosts from fox form, a variety of nifty debuffs, and a stupidly high physical damage increase from melee mastery. Bramble Hood and Soul Transfusion can save your **** if used wisely (this applies to caster venos as well). Leech steals a little bit of HP. Yes, PW has made it extremely difficult for venos to be a decent melee class.

I was going to let this thread die until you decided to assume that I don't understand your "logic" just because I don't agree with you. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, your "logic" is that because venos don't do as much damage as a BM we need a magic weapon that has a higher physical attack stat compared to its magic attack (which, as you said, would be pointless for clerics and wizards). Am I wrong?

Now, here's the logic of everyone who's posted in your thread so far.

1) Magic weapons have the second fastest attack speed.
2) Veno pets are another source of damage.
3) Melee mastery.
4) Bonuses from fox form.
5) Debuffs.
6) Average damage of a magic sword is pretty damn close to the average damage of a normal melee sword.
7) The magic sword has a faster attack speed than the normal sword (see number 1).

Veno's are an easy class to play. I'll admit that.
laying a veno well is a bit harder.
Playing a fox form veno is harder still.
Playing a fox form veno to its "full potential" is possible but takes much more than just "point, click, kill, next".

Yes, you'll do less physical damage than BMs and barbs. Yes, you'll "gimp" your magic attack. Here's the thing though, venos are a hybrid class.b:shocked I don't mean Blade (Wesley Snipes) hybrid with all the strengths and none of the weaknesses. I mean the "can do a little bit of both but doesn't excel at either" kind. Most people stick with only one form (which is usually caster) because it's easier. Doesn't change the fact that venos can be both though.

Swdgy - Heavens Tear

let's give some machine guns to archers too
p att = 1 - 1
attack rate 400.00/sec
nuclear warheads!
p att = 10000000000000
attack rate 0.031415926535897932384626433832795/second

Btw the whole stronger veno thing is not really good. Venos are basically already the most overpowered class there is in pwi. No need to make them stronger.

Accelerated - Sanctuary

Swdgy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

let's give some machine guns to archers too
p att = 1 - 1
attack rate 400.00/sec
nuclear warheads!
p att = 10000000000000
attack rate 0.031415926535897932384626433832795/second

Btw the whole stronger veno thing is not really good. Venos are basically already the most overpowered class there is in pwi. No need to make them stronger.

Lawl
+1. b:laugh

Taranta - Dreamweaver

Okay...say the devs add this new weapon, upping melee damage for fox form venos. Inevitably, fox forms with sawflies/nixes dominate the general veno use, compared to the current QQ about casters with hercs/golems. Devs decide to step in and "balance" the veno class to make up for the new weapon. Devs take away the pet ability to do unmodified damage to [?] level enemies. Venos become useless. Casters start to complain. Devs decide new weapon was a bad idea and balance it back to a normal magic weapon.

Question for the OP: Why do venomancers need to be tanks/solo melee runners? There are pets to take aggro, and increase damage output. Never mind the fact that most of the fox skills are more party based than anything else, a veno that decides to run fox form knows that they won't be doing as much damage as any of the melee classes. They don't imagine themselves as the female versions of the barb.

Even better question for the OP: Why in the world do magic users need ANOTHER weapon to sort through? We've already got 4, and adding 1 more will more than likely just clutter up the menu.

LordChronis - Dreamweaver

Venos do NOT need anything else to amp up there already overpowered skills, amp damage + iron scarab and your whineing about magic weapon damage really?

A new Weapon idea would be good but not for venos , learn how to play fox form cause from my exp they can wreck things other classes only wish they could.

If anything barbs need another weapon choice, axes and hammers only , and you whine about the option to have any wep phys or magic basically =.=.



b:bye

Tactica - Lost City

Heavy armour veno, using a Frostcovered ...wand? I forget, but one of them has decent physical attack, +p.attack stats, and then some extra crit or something.

Not an exact quote, but it would be a good foxform weapon.

Just a thought.

Also, use might rings, a high level might ring adds quite a bit of physical attack.

Tactica - Lost City

LordChronis - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Venos do NOT need anything else to amp up there already overpowered skills, amp damage + iron scarab and your whineing about magic weapon damage really?

A new Weapon idea would be good but not for venos , learn how to play fox form cause from my exp they can wreck things other classes only wish they could.

If anything barbs need another weapon choice, axes and hammers only , and you whine about the option to have any wep phys or magic basically =.=.



b:bye

Barbs can use other weapons, it's just that their skills are limited to select weapons.

I've heard some interesting ideas, of late. Ever considered adding more dex, then using a CV fist (Cube), or the HH99 green sword, with the "Berserk" stat?

As a barb, you have enough physical defence to afford the loss, and it'd increase your attack rate to the point where you can literally bypass a charm with sheer dps.

Ooops. I didn't say that.

Accelerated - Sanctuary

Tactica - Lost City wrote: »

Barbs can use other weapons, it's just that their skills are limited to select weapons.

I've heard some interesting ideas, of late. Ever considered adding more dex, then using a CV fist (Cube), or the HH99 green sword, with the "Berserk" stat?

As a barb, you have enough physical defence to afford the loss, and it'd increase your attack rate to the point where you can literally bypass a charm with sheer dps.

Ooops. I didn't say that.

It's the same to all classes..?
Including venomancers. This chick wants a new weapon that pretty much by-passes this limitation. <.<

It's kind of like giving a fist blademaster the option of letting them learn a new range stun skill that they can use when they're using a bow.

Or letting archers stun while in melee combat range!

Are you seriously on something? Do you seriously think you only need just 1 or 2 extra dex to allow a pure VIT/STR barb to use a fist/sword/pole/bow weapon?

And guess wut. Barbs also have a weapon restriction to transforming into a tiger. They CANNOT GO INTO TIGER FORM WHILE USING SOME **** ZERK SWORD/POLE/FIST. Just like venomancers, they have a weapon restriction into going tiger, which is where they get most of their super natural HP from.

This idea is still stupid.
1. Give us a all class phoenix and hercule with the pet heal skill and pet revive skill (since this chick is obviously saying that since venos have a potential at physical combat, they should get a physical weapon too) so since all classes have a potential at soloing bosses and mobs, why shouldn't their potential of soloing things not be embraced and amplified?
2. Give blademasters bow skills (since this chick is obviously saying that since venos have a potential at physical combat, they should get a physical weapon too) so us blademasters can totally use our potential at range combat.
3. Give archers melee combat skills (since this chick is obviously saying that since venos have a potential at physical combat, they should get a physical weapon too) so you archers should totally get a advantage in using fists, if you chose to.

I mean this game should totally about embracing on each classes' potentials, right? Just like this princess said in her earlier post, and I quote:

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As Kira Yamato once said, "There's no point in having potential if you never use it."

King_Asmodei - Lost City

all i can say is LMFAOb:laugh

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver

Could a GM please lock this since this community is too stupid to comprehend simple logic?

Thanks. b:bye