Will Of Bodhisatva

Pervs - Lost City

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It works against not only stuns but all movement-restriction such as freeze and sleep.

BM: *puts on Will* "I'm coming at you, what are you going to do about it?"
Wiz: *seals* "lulz"
BM: "QQ"

Mage Seal still seals you through Will.

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver

Pervs - Lost City wrote: »

Mage Seal still seals you through Will.

Yes, hence the "QQ".b:cute

Sir_Martin - Lost City

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Your point about double spark+ highland cleave doing more damage than hf is completely pointless. That's like me saying if you triple spark+myriad sword stance it does more damage than streak strike. Also double spark doesn't actually make you do 3x damage, it adds 300% weapon damage, roughly giving the same effect as Heaven's Flame debuff on someone. You're comparing the combo of two skills vs. one. Double Spark+Highland Cleave also takes more than twice the time than HF to use. Note that Heaven's Flame+Highland cleave is also a combo and will do more damage than double spark+highland cleave in less time due to HF actually doing damage. Also the way you would do it is roar first, which isn't a full 6 second stun. If you then use double spark which takes about 2 seconds, then that leaves you around 3 seconds to attack before the stun wears off. Unless you are able to stun again after the roar wears off (hence the chi issue) any smart player will kite away from you, rendering the extra time that double spark gives useless. Not to mention that Heaven's Flame debuff also helps out genie attack skills.

Once again unless you've actually tried using a fully maxed heaven's flame against a cleric, or are a cleric that has fought bm's using maxed heaven's flame, I don't think you're in a very informed position to argue how double spark is better. Not to mention that pre-77 axe bms will miss a lot due to not having misty rings.

Also what's the point of double spark giving immunity when the other person's already stunned...
b:victory

>.> Double Spark Is better. While heavens Flame does a decent amount of damage, Double Sparking after a stun while we are still in plume shell will **** us Clerics. Heavens Flame is easy to take care of since it's just a one shot 2 spark move, With Double Spark they will get in much more damage in since it's a 12 second buff, and the BM would of probably have used Will. So they have a 15 second span to try to kill us before it wears off and they get slept

*Cleric who has fought a Axe-BM*

Clerics FTWb:victory

Filet - Heavens Tear

Sir_Martin - Lost City wrote: »

>.> Double Spark Is better. While heavens Flame does a decent amount of damage, Double Sparking after a stun while we are still in plume shell will **** us Clerics. Heavens Flame is easy to take care of since it's just a one shot 2 spark move, With Double Spark they will get in much more damage in since it's a 12 second buff, and the BM would of probably have used Will. So they have a 15 second span to try to kill us before it wears off and they get slept

*Cleric who has fought a Axe-BM*

Clerics FTWb:victory

Hm well your argument is probably very biased since you're the marshal of knights. Also how is the bm supposed to keep you stunned when they've used will+double spark? If they're using a chi pot then why aren't you using an anti-stun pot? Also Double Spark isn't 300% damage, it's only 300% weapon damage, and then it's not full 12 seconds since it takes around 2 to cast, leaving you with 10 seconds, which is further reduced when you have to stun again while sparked to hold them there (if they're stupid and not using anti-stun pot and you used a chi pot). And once again Heaven's Flame provides a debuff, allowing true emptiness or other genie skills to do twice the damage. Note how almost everybody here except people from Knights has said that double spark is a waste...

Also looking at your level all of your fights have probably been against 7x bms who don't have heaven's flame even close to maxed. We're not comparing lvl 1 HF vs. double spark that's just stupid -_-

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver

Sir_Martin - Lost City wrote: »

>.> Double Spark Is better. While heavens Flame does a decent amount of damage, Double Sparking after a stun while we are still in plume shell will **** us Clerics. Heavens Flame is easy to take care of since it's just a one shot 2 spark move, With Double Spark they will get in much more damage in since it's a 12 second buff, and the BM would of probably have used Will. So they have a 15 second span to try to kill us before it wears off and they get slept

*Cleric who has fought a Axe-BM*

Clerics FTWb:victory

You didn't read a single word I wrote did you? If he sparks and you are going to just sit there and let him smack you after the 3 seconds of stun that is left after spark, then...

Both combos are kite-able, HF combo does more dmg before being kited.

Hippie - Harshlands

Sewagerat - Lost City wrote: »

I want to get some opinions on this skills PVP uses. I can see that 100% eva and immunity to stun for 15sec makes this great for support pvp, especially vs other bms. I'd imagine this would be a very handy skill if you got 3 sparks. In TW this skill would be amazing. Anyone want to discuss?

more useful in 1v1 than in TW, at least i rarely waste a spark on this in TW where every dragon cleans 12 meters radious.

but its a must to use against clerics, venos, and basically any sitouation against BM/Barb/EA when u dont want to get stunned.

unless u have 399 chi its hard to solve that thou

Sir_Martin - Lost City wrote: »

>.> Double Spark Is better. While heavens Flame does a decent amount of damage, Double Sparking after a stun while we are still in plume shell will **** us Clerics. Heavens Flame is easy to take care of since it's just a one shot 2 spark move, With Double Spark they will get in much more damage in since it's a 12 second buff, and the BM would of probably have used Will. So they have a 15 second span to try to kill us before it wears off and they get slept

*Cleric who has fought a Axe-BM*

Clerics FTWb:victory

a decent bm WONT dragon u, when u have mana shield on, and he cant know for sure that u dont have mana charm, or thats his only chance beating u. he will just stunlock u till ur shield is down, and u r good as dead than.

actually at 7x u cant have really the experience bout that unless u had BM/EP before

Sevas - Heavens Tear

Sewagerat - Lost City wrote: »

Lol at this thread, changed so much from the start. WHAT ARE THE VENOS DOING I THE BM FORUMS!?

I go through all of the Class Boards. I consider myself pretty well experienced with all of the classes as I have one of each class at least and because I do watch and learn from my friends in the other classes. So please, no BS that other classes shouldn't be in "your" board because they don't know diddly. BMs and Clerics are probably my favorite class after Venos because of all the times they've saved my ****.

Sir_Martin - Lost City

EDIT: I apologize for the wall of text

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hm well your argument is probably very biased since you're the marshal of knights. Also how is the bm supposed to keep you stunned when they've used will+double spark? If they're using a chi pot then why aren't you using an anti-stun pot? Also Double Spark isn't 300% damage, it's only 300% weapon damage, and then it's not full 12 seconds since it takes around 2 to cast, leaving you with 10 seconds, which is further reduced when you have to stun again while sparked to hold them there (if they're stupid and not using anti-stun pot and you used a chi pot). And once again Heaven's Flame provides a debuff, allowing true emptiness or other genie skills to do twice the damage. Note how almost everybody here except people from Knights has said that double spark is a waste...

Also looking at your level all of your fights have probably been against 7x bms who don't have heaven's flame even close to maxed. We're not comparing lvl 1 HF vs. double spark that's just stupid -_-

I believe LordChronis was the first person to say that 2spark>HF. We just agreed. Also, I know what double spark does. You don't have to repeat yourself or explain it to me. I am not including pots (of any sort) in this equation at all, and honestly, I very rarely happen to be carrying anti-stun pots with me. If this is a failure on my part, so be it. If I did include pots & charms in the equation then neither I nor any BM near my level would ever die, the fight would just go on infinitely until one of us ran out of charm/pots. I don't know any people who do carry stun pots on them all the time anyway.

I have fought and defeated up to 8x BM's 1 vs 1. I will grant you that they were incompetent. Let me break down a hypothetical scenario for you. For the sake of argument lets say I meet up with some unsavory BM in the swamps. We both have full chi, we're both about 20-30m apart, and we both know what's about to go down.

First and foremost, he is probably going to Will at me if he is smart, and avoid being slept. I'm going to plume shell, as it will take him 2 seconds tops to reach me. I have 20 seconds of god mode against the opposing BM now, and first thing I'm going to try and do is Cyclone and Plumeshot (Plumeshot because Cyclone does take a sec to cooldown, and he probably lowered his phy-def with a lvl5 marrow skill anyway). The BM likely uses roar as soon as he gets to me though, so if I am lucky I get the Cyclone off before I am stunned for 6 seconds.

This is the part where the BM shines and does what he does best (button mashes). It doesn't do any real damage, as shell is still in effect. When stun ends I still have about 10 seconds of immortality. He has probably 3-4 seconds of will left so I'll throw off one more great cyclone then I have like a 50/50 chance of being stunned from aelion blade. That last attack, the Aelion Blade, is what sends the BM back up to 2 sparks. In my opinion, this is the point in time that you and Kniraven are debating about.

I have about 3 seconds of Shell left, so if I am stunned I am now spamming my Sleep key for when the 3 sec Aelion Blade stun ends. If not, then yay me b:victory

Let's assume the stun does work though.
You're using HF now, right? Where as Kniraven would probably hit me once, maybe hit alter marrow again, and let me sleep him.

From you, I would kite and take a minor hit + debuf. Then I would sleep you, stack myself with ironheart a bit. Relax, chill out, have a tea party, etc. Purify myself.

When I'm done chillaxing with my friends and a significant distance away I'd double spark, wield thunder, restart Plume Shell, then wield thunder + cyclone you to death while my stacked ironhearts kept healing me. You might get to me with cloudsprint and throw off another stun if your Aelion Blade hits (You don't have any chi for your other stun moves now). If you don't die the process repeats itself with the exception that you can't use a spark now because you wated your chi and I can because I gain it 5 times as fast.

Back to Kniraven.
After he lets me sleep him, I wait for his marrow to wear off and then do the same thing I just did to you. Only difference is when Kniraven wakes up he now cloudsprints to me, restarts marrow, and gets ready to roar (I normally would holypath away if I time it right, but honestly he could do the same deal so I am not including genies). After I am stunned he 2 sparks, leaving him with 3 secs of me stunned to attack. The extra damage makes up for my Plume Shell as he smacks me with 2 moves (Stun ends before second one but not soon enough for me to get away from it). The second one will likely be Aelion Blade, if it stuns me I am screwed, if it doesn't then I take a third hit as I am trying to GTFO from Drakes Ray (already I have taken more damage than I would have from the HF) and I cant cast sleep as I am trying to run away so by the time spark ends he Roars me again, my shell ends, and he delivers a final killing blow.

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You didn't read a single word I wrote did you? If he sparks and you are going to just sit there and let him smack you after the 3 seconds of stun that is left after spark, then...

Both combos are kite-able, HF combo does more dmg before being kited.

As you can see from what I wrote above, yes I do kite b:cute

Hippie - Harshlands wrote: »

a decent bm WONT dragon u, when u have mana shield on, and he cant know for sure that u dont have mana charm, or thats his only chance beating u. he will just stunlock u till ur shield is down, and u r good as dead than.

actually at 7x u cant have really the experience bout that unless u had BM/EP before

Guess I didn't word that clearly enough. I said a stun and 2 spark vs stun and HF while we are still in plume shell meaning that the stun is thrown off right before shell ends so we can't sleep the BM as it is ending.

Kniraven - Lost City

Sir_Martin - Lost City wrote: »

EDIT: I apologize for the wall of text

O_o Mart.. wtf u doing in the BM forums?

-_- You're spying on me.

Sir_Martin - Lost City

Just Bored

b:victory

Filet - Heavens Tear

Sir_Martin - Lost City wrote: »

EDIT: I apologize for the wall of text



I believe LordChronis was the first person to say that 2spark>HF. We just agreed. Also, I know what double spark does. You don't have to repeat yourself or explain it to me. I am not including pots (of any sort) in this equation at all, and honestly, I very rarely happen to be carrying anti-stun pots with me. If this is a failure on my part, so be it. If I did include pots & charms in the equation then neither I nor any BM near my level would ever die, the fight would just go on infinitely until one of us ran out of charm/pots. I don't know any people who do carry stun pots on them all the time anyway.

I have fought and defeated up to 8x BM's 1 vs 1. I will grant you that they were incompetent. Let me break down a hypothetical scenario for you. For the sake of argument lets say I meet up with some unsavory BM in the swamps. We both have full chi, we're both about 20-30m apart, and we both know what's about to go down.

First and foremost, he is probably going to Will at me if he is smart, and avoid being slept. I'm going to plume shell, as it will take him 2 seconds tops to reach me. I have 20 seconds of god mode against the opposing BM now, and first thing I'm going to try and do is Cyclone and Plumeshot (Plumeshot because Cyclone does take a sec to cooldown, and he probably lowered his phy-def with a lvl5 marrow skill anyway). The BM likely uses roar as soon as he gets to me though, so if I am lucky I get the Cyclone off before I am stunned for 6 seconds.

This is the part where the BM shines and does what he does best (button mashes). It doesn't do any real damage, as shell is still in effect. When stun ends I still have about 10 seconds of immortality. He has probably 3-4 seconds of will left so I'll throw off one more great cyclone then I have like a 50/50 chance of being stunned from aelion blade. That last attack, the Aelion Blade, is what sends the BM back up to 2 sparks. In my opinion, this is the point in time that you and Kniraven are debating about.

I have about 3 seconds of Shell left, so if I am stunned I am now spamming my Sleep key for when the 3 sec Aelion Blade stun ends. If not, then yay me b:victory

Let's assume the stun does work though.
You're using HF now, right? Where as Kniraven would probably hit me once, maybe hit alter marrow again, and let me sleep him.

From you, I would kite and take a minor hit + debuf. Then I would sleep you, stack myself with ironheart a bit. Relax, chill out, have a tea party, etc. Purify myself.

When I'm done chillaxing with my friends and a significant distance away I'd double spark, wield thunder, restart Plume Shell, then wield thunder + cyclone you to death while my stacked ironhearts kept healing me. You might get to me with cloudsprint and throw off another stun if your Aelion Blade hits (You don't have any chi for your other stun moves now). If you don't die the process repeats itself with the exception that you can't use a spark now because you wated your chi and I can because I gain it 5 times as fast.

Back to Kniraven.
After he lets me sleep him, I wait for his marrow to wear off and then do the same thing I just did to you. Only difference is when Kniraven wakes up he now cloudsprints to me, restarts marrow, and gets ready to roar (I normally would holypath away if I time it right, but honestly he could do the same deal so I am not including genies). After I am stunned he 2 sparks, leaving him with 3 secs of me stunned to attack. The extra damage makes up for my Plume Shell as he smacks me with 2 moves (Stun ends before second one but not soon enough for me to get away from it). The second one will likely be Aelion Blade, if it stuns me I am screwed, if it doesn't then I take a third hit as I am trying to GTFO from Drakes Ray (already I have taken more damage than I would have from the HF) and I cant cast sleep as I am trying to run away so by the time spark ends he Roars me again, my shell ends, and he delivers a final killing blow.





As you can see from what I wrote above, yes I do kite b:cute




Guess I didn't word that clearly enough. I said a stun and 2 spark vs stun and HF while we are still in plume shell meaning that the stun is thrown off right before shell ends so we can't sleep the BM as it is ending.

Ok not to be rude but I just skimmed it since it's a bit of a dense read. First of all I could do exactly what kniraven is doing, let you sleep me or w/e, and then stun you and HF instead of double sparking like you said. Also in those 3 seconds HF+skill will do more damage than double spark+skill. Think about it this way, Roar of the Pride has 6 seconds of stun (bit less). This is in your scenario where the bm only has enough chi for roar+double spark or heaven's flame. So when your plume shell is down, I would stun you with roar. This leaves me with 2 sparks, just enough to either double spark or HF. By the time I can actually do anything after roar there's 5 seconds of stun left. Now here comes the part that we're debating. Going by your option (double spark:

-5 seconds left, bm casts double spark, by the time double spark is down there's 3 seconds left on stun, 10 seconds left on spark. In 3 seconds let's say the BM can get another 2 hits in. Total damage so far is 2 hits double sparked. Now in order to keep you down the BM has to stun with Aeolian.
Now the scenario branches off into two different ones: a) aeolian stuns, b) aeolian doesn't stun

a) So just to summarize so far under double spark you've gotten 3 hits in, 2 hits and 1 aeolian. After the aeolian you only have time for 1 more hit. After this the cleric kites away or sleeps you until double spark is over. So a) being the best possible scenario, You've gotten in 4 hits total under double spark over a period of around 8 seconds.

b) You've landed 3 hits, now you're asleep cuz aeolian didn't stun

Now if you use Heaven's Flame instead. You roar first, 5 seconds left and you use Heaven's Flame. After HF lands you can get 2 hits in that are both under the debuff time. Then you Aeolian, which also hits under the debuff time. Regardless of whether the opponent was stunned or not that's already 4 hits in 6 seconds, which in total are stronger than the 4 hits that you could get in using double spark with aeolian blade stunning in 8 seconds (the best scenario). Heaven's Flame will do more damage than a quick bm skill that's under the influence of double spark. If aeolian blade lands, then you can get in a 5th hit in 8 seconds. This is excluding the fact that Heaven's Flame provides another chance to crit/zerk.

Also by saying that you have fought incompetent 8x bms just further proves the point that you haven't actually fought a smart bm that has used Heaven's Flame how it's supposed to be used. PvP changes with the level, certain skills work at lower levels, certain ones work at mid levels, and certain ones work at higher levels. Sorry but double spark is too unreliable, it requires the bm to be able to hit his target for the full 10 seconds, while even if the bm can't land any hits after Heaven's Flame at least Heaven's Flame still does good damage.

Kniraven - Lost City

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok not to be rude but I just skimmed it since it's a bit of a dense read. First of all I could do exactly what kniraven is doing, let you sleep me or w/e, and then stun you and HF instead of double sparking like you said. Also in those 3 seconds HF+skill will do more damage than double spark+skill. Think about it this way, Roar of the Pride has 6 seconds of stun (bit less). This is in your scenario where the bm only has enough chi for roar+double spark or heaven's flame. So when your plume shell is down, I would stun you with roar. This leaves me with 2 sparks, just enough to either double spark or HF. By the time I can actually do anything after roar there's 5 seconds of stun left. Now here comes the part that we're debating. Going by your option (double spark:

-5 seconds left, bm casts double spark, by the time double spark is down there's 3 seconds left on stun, 10 seconds left on spark. In 3 seconds let's say the BM can get another 2 hits in. Total damage so far is 2 hits double sparked. Now in order to keep you down the BM has to stun with Aeolian.
Now the scenario branches off into two different ones: a) aeolian stuns, b) aeolian doesn't stun

a) So just to summarize so far under double spark you've gotten 3 hits in, 2 hits and 1 aeolian. After the aeolian you only have time for 1 more hit. After this the cleric kites away or sleeps you until double spark is over. So a) being the best possible scenario, You've gotten in 4 hits total under double spark over a period of around 8 seconds.

b) You've landed 3 hits, now you're asleep cuz aeolian didn't stun

Now if you use Heaven's Flame instead. You roar first, 5 seconds left and you use Heaven's Flame. After HF lands you can get 2 hits in that are both under the debuff time. Then you Aeolian, which also hits under the debuff time. Regardless of whether the opponent was stunned or not that's already 4 hits in 6 seconds, which in total are stronger than the 4 hits that you could get in using double spark with aeolian blade stunning in 8 seconds (the best scenario). Heaven's Flame will do more damage than a quick bm skill that's under the influence of double spark. If aeolian blade lands, then you can get in a 5th hit in 8 seconds. This is excluding the fact that Heaven's Flame provides another chance to crit/zerk.

Also by saying that you have fought incompetent 8x bms just further proves the point that you haven't actually fought a smart bm that has used Heaven's Flame how it's supposed to be used. PvP changes with the level, certain skills work at lower levels, certain ones work at mid levels, and certain ones work at higher levels. Sorry but double spark is too unreliable, it requires the bm to be able to hit his target for the full 10 seconds, while even if the bm can't land any hits after Heaven's Flame at least Heaven's Flame still does good damage.

I humbly disagree with you.
I will leave it at that. =/

Filet - Heavens Tear

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

I humbly disagree with you.
I will leave it at that. =/

Ok reasonable enough

Hippie - Harshlands

Why are people writing so long posts about absolute stuped things? Seriously... BM double spark in PvP?? BM cant stun longer than 6 sec? after that 50/50??

after these parts i stopped reading both smartguys since its a waste of time obviously.

Sooo bad =(

Filet - Heavens Tear

Hippie - Harshlands wrote: »

Why are people writing so long posts about absolute stuped things? Seriously... BM double spark in PvP?? BM cant stun longer than 6 sec? after that 50/50??

after these parts i stopped reading both smartguys since its a waste of time obviously.

Sooo bad =(

lol well we're done now. And if you only have 2 sparks which you use on either heaven's flame or double spark, and roar is on cooldown, (no chi pots allowed), which is the scenario we were talking about, then of course your only choice is to use aeolian for stun :P

Hippie - Harshlands

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

lol well we're done now. And if you only have 2 sparks which you use on either heaven's flame or double spark, and roar is on cooldown, (no chi pots allowed), which is the scenario we were talking about, then of course your only choice is to use aeolian for stun :P

smack? occult ice? smack gives enough time to get chi for a roar(tiger maw+ marrows) and prevents enemy from nuking ur face.

also carry chi pots. always...

Filet - Heavens Tear

Hippie - Harshlands wrote: »

smack? occult ice? smack gives enough time to get chi for a roar(tiger maw+ marrows) and prevents enemy from nuking ur face.

also carry chi pots. always...

Smack only seals so they can still run away, and chi pots were specifically forbidden by the other poster :P in this situation. We're just saying that in this specific scenario where pots/genie skills aren't included, After a roar+2 spark skill the only other stun you could use is aeolian. Not that it's really related to real PvP since so much stuff is being restricted

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

Yes OP, it is a useful PvP skill.

Ghost_eyes - Lost City

Love Will of bodi VS archers, I **** them in duels because they often try stun first move. when they realise they cant, they try to run, but at that point ur running at +100% speed.. and then BOOM!!!!!!!!!! STUN LOCK ****.



Out in the wild, if I sense an archer about to attack, i will of bodi away so they cant stun.

Or u can use it to get a place in the Snake island race without a mount lol,
Swift sprint - > will of bodi - > Holy path - > leap forward and repeat! (though u need chi pots or spam ur marrows while running to build chi ).