dark > holy

prof

You're all **** and you don't even know why b:chuckle

http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/skillmg.php

Let's outline the skills that are better for dark:
Pyrogram
Divine Pyrogram
Will of the Phoenix
Sacrificial Fire-Storm
Gush
Morning Dew
Frostblade
Glacial Snare
Hailstorm
Wellspring Quaff
Stone Barrier
Pitfall
Sandstorm
Force of Will
Mountain Seize

Now for holy:
Master Li's Technique
Black Ice Dragon Strike
Stone Rain
Pyroshell
Crown of Flames
The Dragon's Breath
Glacial Embrace

Equally useful on both paths:
Fire/Water/Earth masteries
Blade Tempest
Spark Eruption
Distance Shrink <- Kristophe

Now, I've bold a few skills in holy. Why? Those are the only 3 skills for holy that matter. That means you chose that entire branch for 3 skills. Nice. Everything bold in dark has a useful part. Frostblade, though underrated, is quite valuable to physical classes. Though useless to us, so w/e.


Before you bring up the debuff that Holy-Glacial Snare/Divine Pyrogram have: No. Shut up. Get Undine Strike you cheap ****.

b:bye

Adroit - Lost City

here on pwi we dont use malasian names.. and if i bothered to translate ur post, we would quickly realize that there are a number of skills that sage has an edge with :P alot of those skills in the demon is better list are toss-ups

prof

there ya go, all translated and grammar'd up for you pwi newbs to understand. disprove any of it, i'll be willing to show you error of your ways.

shlomo2

you say the word "****" like it's something cool. take a look at this, boy: http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/gallery/gallery.htm

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Better for dark? b:laughb:laughb:laugh Apparently you have big sense for humor.

Adroit - Lost City

distance shrink, pyro are both great for building chi for sage (half chi cost and 30% chanceto gain an extra 30 chi.. which stacks with normal chi so u get almost half a spark when it procs) blade tempest and mountain seize are obviously better for sage, and morning dew is a toss-up. glacial snare and divine pyro are only used in sutra anyway so equal for demon and sage. demon spark is better than sage imo... ur list is screwed up

prof

dark blink > holy. why? 30 meters is a HUGE jump. sure, holy is 25, but 30 puts you in the red zone for archers. you'll land right ontop of them, cutting their damage in half. not only that, but it puts you out of range of any class if you jump the other way.

pyrogram for dark chants almost instantly. it hits hard, and fast. very fast. and as a level 11 skill, already gives an increased amount of vigor upon use. the additional amount for holy is useless. about as reliable as dark rock fall.

blade tempest is useful in both trees. mountain being cast out of range of any class = win.

the heal is better for dark. relying on a 10% chance is like relying on the us government to cure cancer.

glacial snare and divine pyro are NOT sutra skills. if you got them, you'd realize how unimaginably hard both skills hit once dark/holy(divine is actually surprisingly strong at level 11).

spark is useful on both ends. they weigh eachother out.

Kristoph - Lost City

prof wrote: »

Let's outline the skills that are better for dark:
Pyrogram
Mountain Seize
Distance Shrink

Pyrogram is a toss up, the additional chi gained from it is GREAT and kicks in often enough to make it worth it. Mountain Seize? Being able to cast it from 5 meter further doesn't make much of a difference in a lot of cases. Don't see how it's better than saving a spark half the time you use it. Distance Shrink? the extra range is good, but so is saving chi. Being able to use distance shrink twice as often is quite a big deal.


The sage versions aren't better, per se, but at least just as good.

Adroit - Lost City

prof wrote: »

dark blink > holy. why? 30 meters is a HUGE jump. sure, holy is 25, but 30 puts you in the red zone for archers. you'll land right ontop of them, cutting their damage in half. not only that, but it puts you out of range of any class if you jump the other way.

pyrogram for dark chants almost instantly. it hits hard, and fast. very fast. and as a level 11 skill, already gives an increased amount of vigor upon use. the additional amount for holy is useless. about as reliable as dark rock fall.

blade tempest is useful in both trees. mountain being cast out of range of any class = win.

the heal is better for dark. relying on a 10% chance is like relying on the us government to cure cancer.

glacial snare and divine pyro are NOT sutra skills. if you got them, you'd realize how unimaginably hard both skills hit once dark/holy(divine is actually surprisingly strong at level 11).

spark is useful on both ends. they weigh eachother out.

that extra 5m is nice on shrink, but half the cost is nice too.. totally based on preference. pyro gives an EXTRA 30 chi, it isnt close to demon. demon also has a nice boost, although i still prefer chi blade tempest should be killing people, not interupting them, and if it doesnt kill them.. id much rather take an extra spark over interupting them lol. extra 5m range is almost non-factor.. that year its casting will give anyone a chance to interupt u. again an extra spark really useful. neither of the bonuses to morning dew are great, but 600 hp is lame, while chance at full healing a barb could be useful. neither mod is really worth talking about though. div pyro and glacial snare are about the same on both paths, neither are amazing. demon spark 25% channel is better than 25% damage reduced. (i think its 25%.. but it might be 20%.. cant remember)

prof

I agree with you Kristophe, but I lay Pyrogram in dark with the same argument I lay Rock Fall in holy: 20% chance is low. The -chant effect for either 1 is more useful than the 20% effect. My opinion for the earth doom will not change. Using 1 fury instead of 2 doesn't mean a whole lot to me.

Androit: you're just biased towards holy like most of the people who support it. And with all my chant gear on(that includes necklace and belt), I use my doom in about 2.5s. The fire dooms interrupt, in my eyes, does a lot more than you give it credit for. For instance:

Everything in this game can be interrupted. From slow magic skills, to nearly instant wr skills. IF that hits, everything within range will stop. Stop a wr from aoe stun? Stop a mage from aoe stun? Maybe cancel a dragon or a holy cryonite?

The only time fury is better for 1 tree, rather the other, is for wf. holy fury for wf > dark. That's the one and only exception.

Adroit - Lost City

fyi, my character name is Adroit, not androit
I probably am biased to sage, just like you are to demon
I really dunno what to say if you dont see the potential of having extra chi.. chi lets us use ults, triple spark, sutra, distance shrink, and sleep. not to mention buff ourself. To finish a close 1v1 u may need chi, to use your ults in TW, u need chi.. i dunno what else to say

MagicHamsta - Lost City

I see more validity to Adriot's claims rather than yours prof. She actually has a level 88. o.O and this magic hamster wishes to get more feedback on how going sage works out for her. ^.^' quickly please DX i'm catching up a bit too quickly (>.<) Also the Malaysian version of skills confooses me. and makes me sad hamster. besides blink I prefer no chi cost instead. 5 extra meters isn't worth the chi cost in my opinion. Although I started off leaning more towards Demon I've decided I'll go sage. For reasons I will either never state or state later if me evil plans work out right. b:chuckle
Now if you complain about PWI then why not go back to the other PW? Obviously you didn't come here to help poor noobs like me.

prof

magic, i'm level 93.

androit: you choose to get 50 vigor every 60s and i choose to take away 100 every 60s. you choose to rely on 20% chances of a little bit of vigor, i choose to make myself faster.

i don't rely on my dooms, i don't rely on my fury, and i don't rely on sutra. distance shrink, stone barrier, mountain press(if i'm locking them out of a fury. if you hadn't guessed, i specalize in world pvp), and moistcuring if i ever get it, will be the only vigor skills i use. i always have vigor, and i never see myself in need of it.

Adroit - Lost City

my name isnt androit..

Not really sure y.. but i never get my chi burned.. and everyone has their own play style.. I just always figured demon is for 1v1's and sage is for TW.. and when I got to see a few sage mages pking, i knew which way i was going. Not too long ago I watched Kristoph and erndog pking (ern is a 9x cleric) and neither could really kill each other, but after the like 3rd blade tempest in like 2 mins, ern finally went down. In a long close fight like that, having that chi to use an ult or triple spark or whatever is what it takes to finish it. I really doubt being demon is really that much better for world pvp.. but sage definitely is better for TW because of the constant ults

prof

you really, REALLY put too much into the idea of having this infinite amount of vigor choosing that path. seriously. you'll have 2 vigor skills in your lifetime, and a couple that use less vigor that i know you'll never have.

for instance. i cast fast. really fast. so fast even that people think i'm stupid for putting so much into chant("crit is better prof"; "so why did i win?"). i've 1v1'd my friend countless times, a level 101 holy mage. from what i can remember, he's only beat me once. the amount of times i've beat him is endless. his "infinite" flow of vigor from being holy is just as infinite as mine. we build it at the same speed.

because you can toss in 50 every minute doesn't change that i can take it away just as fast.

Adroit - Lost City

your friend must really suck.. a higher level of the same class should beat the lower level.. and you're gonna have alot of trouble convincing me you get more chi than a sage mage.. that chi burn skill would help to even it up, but as sage.. u should still be gaining chi. Half cost distance shrink and bonus chi on pyro every few hits.. along with 50% chance to save a spark on BT or MS would still give sage the chi advantage. The bonuses on demon are really nice, but the ability to build chi on sage is invaluable. Im not going to debate this anymore till I hit 89 and get my fairy I hate arguing with ideas that are only on paper, (although i have talked to many 9x mages to get an idea of what pvp is like for demon and sage)

Miss_Tika - Lost City

CHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII


ULTIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII


i rest my case

EDIT: OH MY GOD. I would hate to spam Frostblade just for enough chi to put stone barrier up. Reminds me of Spirea *pukes*

Cryxtal - Sanctuary

Yea everyone has their own opinions. To me ill go with the path that has more skills giving more damage. Which is demon ? as for chi . ill suck it up a little and spend lotsa time getting mats and making chi pills .. kwakwakwa !

No rush in this game XDb:victory

Adroit - Lost City

Cryxtal - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yea everyone has their own opinions. To me ill go with the path that has more skills giving more damage. Which is demon ? as for chi . ill suck it up a little and spend lotsa time getting mats and making chi pills .. kwakwakwa !

No rush in this game XDb:victory

chi pots have a 2 minute cooldown and also prevents you from using any other apoth pots.. on top of that.. sage can use chi pots too but it ends up boiling down to your own playing style

Amour - Lost City

How is demon and heaven tempest considered useful for both?
Interrupt channeling? 1spark > that.

Kristoph - Lost City

prof wrote: »

you really, REALLY put too much into the idea of having this infinite amount of vigor choosing that path. seriously. you'll have 2 vigor skills in your lifetime, and a couple that use less vigor that i know you'll never have.

lol you obviously don't know about the event now.. I have two sage distance shrink books. Mountain Seize and Blade Tempest aren't that hard to get, the chi skill and pyrogram are basic... so "will never have"? Wrong.


And honestly, taking someone's vigor away is nice and all, but it isn't used. I've had a total of two people use it on me. One was trying to annoy me while grinding, the other died right after to Dragon. Honestly in the time you waste clicking and casting the **** your target will be hitting you and gaining chi, meaning it's horribly stupid in 9/10 cases.


And yes, the playing style of Sage is very different. Demon will most likely spam normal skills most of the time, and yes it gets the job done. It's a lot different for sages. I drop ults and pop sutra for the simple reason of not knowing what the hell to do with the amount of chi I have/get. And for TW, being able to drop ults and use sutra on cata pullers etc is a lot more valuable.


And please, chi pots? Whoever uses chi pots in serious pvp needs to be shot in the face.


EDIT: Also, don't bother using the "I beat x" as an argument, there hasn't been a single Lv90-98 demon wizard capable of beating me 1v1, of the ones I've fought. It doesn't say anything about this discussion, it simply means they're bad.

prof

Miss_Tika - Lost City wrote: »

CHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII


ULTIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII


i rest my case

EDIT: OH MY GOD. I would hate to spam Frostblade just for enough chi to put stone barrier up. Reminds me of Spirea *pukes*

in the time you use immortal energy i've already gained enough vigor to use my barrier. oh no. 2 clicks instead of 1. b:surrender

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

chi pots have a 2 minute cooldown and also prevents you from using any other apoth pots.. on top of that.. sage can use chi pots too but it ends up boiling down to your own playing style

get off the whole "infinite vigor" bs. i've never had a problem with vigor in any given time. even after using a doom, i'll have 3 fury again within a couple of seconds. WHY do you think holy has so much more?

Amour - Lost City wrote: »

How is demon and heaven tempest considered useful for both?
Interrupt channeling? 1spark > that.

i'm afraid it's probably too much for you to understand.

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

lol you obviously don't know about the event now.. I have two sage distance shrink books. Mountain Seize and Blade Tempest aren't that hard to get, the chi skill and pyrogram are basic... so "will never have"? Wrong.

i don't play international(big shocker). i have dark distance shrink. awesome skill x_x. in any case, i didn't direct that comment to you, i meant to the random activist that seems to believe holy has so much more vigor than dark, but they've not yet make it to the level to use it.

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

And honestly, taking someone's vigor away is nice and all, but it isn't used. I've had a total of two people use it on me. One was trying to annoy me while grinding, the other died right after to Dragon. Honestly in the time you waste clicking and casting the **** your target will be hitting you and gaining chi, meaning it's horribly stupid in 9/10 cases.

i use it, lol. i use it all the time against mages, priest and warriors. without vigor these 3 classes are entirely useless. takes less than half a second to use. i have the time to **** you off, and then kill you.

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

And yes, the playing style of Sage is very different. Demon will most likely spam normal skills most of the time, and yes it gets the job done. It's a lot different for sages. I drop ults and pop sutra for the simple reason of not knowing what the hell to do with the amount of chi I have/get. And for TW, being able to drop ults and use sutra on cata pullers etc is a lot more valuable.

i sit with full fury all the time and never use it. i don't need it. why use something you don't need? i rather make sure i still have it in the chance that i do need it(ie: random ****** dark ea that wants to jump you with fury). in tw, the only dooms i use is mountain press and pyro tempest, and pyro tempest rarely. i find killing single targets more efficient than trying to 1 shot a crowd.

though i guess, maybe in your server 1 shotting a crowd would be a bit easier? my last tw was against a guild known for "bribing the gm's for their gears". in other words, most have +12 armours. b:surrender

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

And please, chi pots? Whoever uses chi pots in serious pvp needs to be shot in the face.

anti-stun ftw, lol

only time i use fury pot is to triple fury+doom, and that's in the off chance i'm just surprise attacking a group of people. or maybe i'm showing off and using 3 dooms at once b:question

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

EDIT: Also, don't bother using the "I beat x" as an argument, there hasn't been a single Lv90-98 demon wizard capable of beating me 1v1, of the ones I've fought. It doesn't say anything about this discussion, it simply means they're bad.

reroll on delphi real fast b:beg

Adroit - Lost City

prof wrote: »

i use it, lol. i use it all the time against mages, priest and warriors. without vigor these 3 classes are entirely useless. takes less than half a second to use. i have the time to **** you off, and then kill you.

Thats right, without chi a wizard is useless. Glad we understand each other.

Then when we look at all the skills on sage are revolving around chi (pyro chance to get extra chi.. distance shrink uses half the chi.. Blade Tempest and Mountain Seize have chance to save a spark, the chi skill that gives u chi every 60 seconds)... What makes you think demon has more chi?

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Thats right, without chi a wizard is useless. Glad we understand each other.

Then when we look at all the skills on sage are revolving around chi (pyro chance to get extra chi.. distance shrink uses half the chi.. Blade Tempest and Mountain Seize have chance to save a spark, the chi skill that gives u chi every 60 seconds)... What makes you think demon has more chi?

b:victoryb:victoryb:victory

Calliope - Heavens Tear

prof wrote: »

i use it all the time against mages, priest and warriors. without vigor these 3 classes are entirely useless.

prof wrote: »

i sit with full fury all the time and never use it. i don't need it. why use something you don't need?

Why are we arguing with Forp again? I thought we gave up on that a while back.

Adroit - Lost City

Calliope - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why are we arguing with Forp again? I thought we gave up on that a while back.

didn't know there was a past.. haha b:shutup

MagicHamsta - Lost City

prof wrote: »

magic, i'm level 93.

or so you say...

honestly I stand with the opinion that there is no better. There can be only one~ *cue highlander music* that fits your playing preference.

I myself will not be solo dueling instead I will either 1. Be in a squad pking pkers. 2. In TWs. or 3. Ambushing people on my hit list from behind were I have plenty of time to cast my first ulti right on their head.
Truthfully demon looks like it's more fit for 1 vs 1 dueling.

and what the heck is Forp even doing here? If he hates sage wizards so much and hates PWI so much why not return back to wherever he came from. -.-'

my theory is that he gets eaten all the time by all the sage wizards in his server so he moved here and is now pathetically attempting to prevent anyone from going sage.

Miss_Tika - Lost City

prof wrote: »

in the time you use immortal energy i've already gained enough vigor to use my barrier. oh no. 2 clicks instead of 1. b:surrender

LOL i think its more than 2 frostblades.

prof wrote: »

get off the whole "infinite vigor" bs. i've never had a problem with vigor in any given time. even after using a doom, i'll have 3 fury again within a couple of seconds. WHY do you think holy has so much more?

How the **** would you know? I ALWAYS HAVE ****ING CHI. In PK/TW, I am constantly ripping ulti's out of my ****. Something a hell mage cannot do. And I hate to break it to ya but in TW and PK, ulti > fury. Wait. did you just say a hell mage can get 3 sparks in just a couple of seconds?

prof wrote: »

i'm afraid it's probably too much for you to understand.

someone's an ignorant ****

prof wrote: »

i don't play international(big shocker). i have dark distance shrink. awesome skill x_x. in any case, i didn't direct that comment to you, i meant to the random activist that seems to believe holy has so much more vigor than dark, but they've not yet make it to the level to use it.

LOL what the hell does that mean? You know how much there is to do WITH so much chi? You obviously dont

prof wrote: »

i sit with full fury all the time and never use it. i don't need it. why use something you don't need? in tw, the only dooms i use is mountain press and pyro tempest, and pyro tempest rarely. i find killing single targets more efficient than trying to 1 shot a crowd.

Okay i couldn't stop laughing at this comment. You think single target killing (using all 3 sparks for fury) in TW is better than wiping out an entire crowd with lets say.... Sage Black Ice Dragon?

prof wrote: »

though i guess, maybe in your server 1 shotting a crowd would be a bit easier? my last tw was against a guild known for "bribing the gm's for their gears". in other words, most have +12 armours. b:surrender

pretty sure a +12 weapon with a crit would kill. just a thought. Also pretty sure people in TW aren't walking around with 100% health. With an ulti on a group of people i'm always guaranteed to kill a few people. I should show u some of my SS!

prof wrote: »

anti-stun ftw, lol

only time i use fury pot is to triple fury+doom, and that's in the off chance i'm just surprise attacking a group of people. or maybe i'm showing off and using 3 dooms at once b:question

you can't use anti-stun when you're using chi pots. and the only way you'll have NEARLY as much chi as a sage mage is IF you spam chi pots every 2 minutes. God being chi-less is like PKing naked.

prof wrote: »

reroll on delphi real fast b:beg

HAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHHHAHAA

God this idiot reminds me of Forp or Frop or whoever that ****ing ****** was.

EDIT: prof = forp backwrds I AM A GENIUS

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Thats right, without chi a wizard is useless. Glad we understand each other.

Then when we look at all the skills on sage are revolving around chi (pyro chance to get extra chi.. distance shrink uses half the chi.. Blade Tempest and Mountain Seize have chance to save a spark, the chi skill that gives u chi every 60 seconds)... What makes you think demon has more chi?

/kiss

Damaged - Lost City

Inb4closed4"flaming"

Also, agree'd with prof

Rest of you all suck

Adroit - Lost City

Damaged - Lost City wrote: »

Inb4closed4"flaming"

Also, agree'd with prof

Rest of you all suck

is that prof's main? b:shocked
or a groupie?

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary

Okay, stop with the "demon better than sage" and "sage better than demon" posts!
I again repeat something that PrettySammy wrote on another post like this.
The two paths are DIFFERENT PLAYING STYLES.

You can't compare them because they are like apples and oranges.