2 weeks since Jones and...
Comments
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Yeah, there really needs to be something instituted that is an actual money sink of in-game coins, but it needs to have a few certain aspects.
1. Whatever being purchased has no other way of being obtained. It is not available via quest or cash shop.
2. It is intangible, or consumable and untradeable. If the item is an actual item, it then just becomes a subsitute for said coin and has a trade value. You wouldn't want to encourage the "haves" to have yet one more thing to hoard that is highly desired by the "have-nots".
3. Has a scaleable cost dependant on lvl, maybe with rewards varying by lvl also. A hard cost 100k item/event (Jones) is easily do-able for those who have banks that float in the 7-9 digit range. Not so for the newer player. A scaled cost/reward system encourages participation from all players.
That being said, a few ideas pop to mind. How about an NPC that you can pay coins to to give you genie xp? The obsession to get high lucky count genies would drain an insane amount of coins from the economy, especially if the cost scales upward the higher the genie lvl. This also has the benefit of allowing you to not have to spend your xp or spirit on them, saving them for your own use.
Another idea, though not in the spirit of point #1, would be an NPC that you can pay to put you into a boosted xp state for a limited time, similar to an Eso. It'd have to be available only for a limited time, or have a limited useage per day/week to avoid destroying the market for Eso scrolls. The cost would obviously scale dependant on lvl.
Or, how about a coin-paid clothes dye service? I think we would all agree dye is horribly overpriced, and takes an inordinate amount of dye to achieve your desired result. A pay-with-coin randomization or random set dye option could potentially outlet a lot of coin. This would pretty much destroy random dye (maybe), but as stated above PWI needs to take a long hard look at the long term effects of rampant uncontrolled inflation. Maybe some sacrifices are in order before it gets to the point of no return.0 -
Great idea, I'll take it. Sell XP cubes for 5coin = 1XP or something similar and say goodbye to large amounts of in-game coin.Fellinia - Dreamweaver wrote: »How about an NPC that you can pay coins to to give you genie xp? The obsession to get high lucky count genies would drain an insane amount of coins from the economy, especially if the cost scales upward the higher the genie lvl.
Sure, people will have better Genies, but they wouldn't really be that much better.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
Fellinia - Dreamweaver wrote: »How about an NPC that you can pay coins to to give you genie xp? The obsession to get high lucky count genies would drain an insane amount of coins from the economy, especially if the cost scales upward the higher the genie lvl. This also has the benefit of allowing you to not have to spend your xp or spirit on them, saving them for your own use.
Initial reaction: I really quite like this idea.
Haven't had time to ponder side-effects, but this seems like a really good idea insofar.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »Great idea, I'll take it. Sell XP cubes for 5coin = 1XP or something similar and say goodbye to large amounts of in-game coin.
Sure, people will have better Genies, but they wouldn't really be that much better.
It'd be like Scarlet Fruit sales, but for genies. Kinda interesting, but I could see people dumping money into this. I know I could use something for my genies....0 -
Fellinia - Dreamweaver wrote: »Another idea, though not in the spirit of point #1, would be an NPC that you can pay to put you into a boosted xp state for a limited time, similar to an Eso. It'd have to be available only for a limited time, or have a limited useage per day/week to avoid destroying the market for Eso scrolls. The cost would obviously scale dependant on lvl.
I like this idea although it should be much more than 50% boost say 200% and probably time limited. ie. Casual players with less online play time a day get more of a boost.
Given the amount that high level players pay to buy stacks and stacks of Oracles, I think this would be a popular item.
At 200% boost it would cut the number of mob you need to grind for XP to a 1/3rd which helps eliminate the Grindy game complaint and also reduces the coin introduced into the system from grinding by 2/3rds.0 -
JJ event may drain coins but in bad way.. Gold trading is between JJ and in-game coins.
People use dolls instead of 100k to buy JJ event stuff -> people need possibly gold to get dolls -> Gold sellers understand this and put higher gold prices due of increased demand -> event stuff may be cheap but all other items in Cash shop isnt. Instead they are more expensive than before JJ. -> PWI put all kind of sales (so people could buy CS stuff again <-from my point of view) -> again, greedy gold sellers........
^^Shortly.
Only way to fix the economy: Put something up which doesnt require any CS item or gold.
Or put gold price limits.0 -
Calliope - Heavens Tear wrote: »TEdit: Asterelle posted as I was writing this, I forgot about that directorate letter. That reminds me that mysterious chips also have a high fee, but you get so few chips that the fees rarely come into play. There's an elegant solution to inflation: more chips! You could even make people pay coins for the chips, then you drain coins twice.
You beat me to it. I was going to post the idea as well. If we had the following, somehow:
Player Coins ==> [BLACK BOX] ==> Mysterious Chips
Thus far, the only widely available "Black Box" of this nature is the Cube of Fate, but, from what everyone is saying, that is not a real money sink.
Anyways, the general idea of mid-levelers and high-levelers going after Molds and rare materials with coins would be doable, in my opinion. I would be willing to bet that if an NPC sold Mysterious Chips for 50k each, we'd have a mad rush of level 80s and 90s going after Chips to make their Frostcovered, Lunar, and/or Warsoul equipment.
While this would decrease the amount of coins in the economy, it does *not* address the coin box issue directly.0 -
FionaCattail - Sanctuary wrote: »Gold prices are STILL 45k/G higher than they were before the event.. so tell me again.. how did the jones event help the economy?
You want to know why gold is still that high? Part of it is them adding coin to servers to inflate what people have (makes gold relatively less expensive) and another part is that people know how to manipulate the gold market. It only takes about 100 million coin to set whatever gold price you want. And if you're patient, far less than that. You see the people that put in 25, 35, 100, etc gold buys at a certain price? Every single one of those raises the price on gold. The reason for this is because people are impatient and will bid over it by 100 coin, then 200, and so on. Resulting in most of those buys not being bought, and the person putting them in again at a higher price. I've watched it happen 4 times today so far. Each time it jumped the price on gold by 6-8k on DW and I would bet it was all by the same person.
If you want gold prices to drop, convince PWI to allow each account to only have in 10 gold buys at once. No daily limit, but a way to prevent those large amounts of gold buys from being placed (of which, very few are bought) as those only serve to raise the price rather than get the player gold.0 -
Try it. No really, go right ahead. I'll wait here...Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »You want to know why gold is still that high? Part of it is them adding coin to servers to inflate what people have (makes gold relatively less expensive) and another part is that people know how to manipulate the gold market.
Well?
Didn't work out so well, did it? Yeah, it didn't work for me either. Wikipedia has a good explanation why: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornering_the_market
It's ironic, but conspiracy theories like price-fixing let the real culprits right off the hook. I'm one of the people who plays the market, and I'll admit flat out that the reason Gold is high is because people like me buy and sell and drive up the price. Price fixing, however, is a waste of time because it's risky and ineffective, while straight-forward buy-low-sell-high is safe and far more profitable.
The simple facts are that I can and have made money by buying "expensive" Gold, then exchanging it for a profit so I can repeat the cycle. As long as such opportunities exist, Gold will stay high.
Want to stop me from doing it? No problem, just change the rules of the game and I'm happy to oblige. I know it sounds disingenuous to say I'm not actually that greedy, but really it's just that I have a hard time ignoring free money just lying around waiting for somebody to pick it up. When I see market opportunities, I take them, just like when I see abandoned DQ items, I pick them up.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
I have tried it, I've increased the price of gold 25k on DW inside of 3 hours before, I also happened to do it unintentionally while buying gold for a legendary pet I was farming someone. The reason for it isn't from increased demand, but from putting in large chunks of gold to buy at once. I didn't mean it's intentional by people, it very well could be but I think most of it is due to people not realizing others aren't going to bid behind their 30 or 50 gold. They're going to pay 100 coin more and get it hours sooner.
It's not price fixing either, it's precisely what you're getting at buy low/sell high, except with an added step to raise gold (again, intentional or unintentional, it doesn't matter which it is... people do it, and it happens) higher rather than simply letting it fluctuate.0 -
Warren, she has a good point actually. You don't run into the standard problems with cornering the market, because you never actually buy gold at the price you offer. Imagine this buy schedule:
190,000 - 2
189,900 - 3
189,800 - 1
185,500 - 4
185,000 - 13
184,900 - 7
That's all of 6 gold above the 185,500 mark, and 10 above 185k. If people wait, those 6 will probably sell, and future buy orders will be mostly in the 185k range. People might put their bids in at 185k-186k, anticipating those few higher priced golds will be bought soon enough.
However, suppose this happens:
190,000 - 2
189,900 - 3
189,800 - 1
189,700 - 100
185,500 - 3
185,000 - 13
184,900 - 7
Now everyone has a strong incentive to put in their buy orders at no less than 189,800, or else they have to wait for 106 gold to sell before they can get theirs. That's enough of a wait that people will mostly pay the extra 5k, and if it's a sluggish day for sales you'll just accumulate buy orders above the 189,700 mark. That person can then withdraw their bid once it falls below the visible part of the screen, and put in a new bid to drive up prices.
It's more like an auction, where you have your friend drive up the price with fake bids, so that the product ultimately sells for more. The only risk is that you buy some gold at roughly the current market price, which as you know is basically profitable.
Now suddenly people who0 -
It is possible to manipulate the exchange rate for a short period if you have a lot of Gold and Coin. 100G is about right.
I always know someone is attempting to manipulate when there is a big 100G+ lot in the Auction.
However, if you watch you will also see that there is very little movement of the lots on the wrong side. ie. if the supply and demand is out of sync with the attempt to manipulate only the side that is correctly priced will tend to move quickly.
That being said 10G limit per char is way too low. Any limit for that matter is bad. It will actually help the manipulators because anyone wanting to buy/sell more than 10G will HAVE to accept whatever is the going price so that they can dump the 10G and put in another bid.
Meanwhile the PROs will set up multiple accounts and still put 100G lots, just 10G at a time, in each account.0 -
Do u also believe in the thooth fairy?PVP: 3800 kills in the name of KD lawl
Retired as of 18/11/09
Back as of 22/11/10
Archer retired as of 26/12/100 -
thank you guys for a break of boredom from my constant devil soul runs for my guild...
PWE: doesnt care about ingame coin market
end of story.Less QQ more Pew Pewb:thanks
"Don't argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience."
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Viper_girl - Heavens Tear wrote: »That being said 10G limit per char is way too low. Any limit for that matter is bad. It will actually help the manipulators because anyone wanting to buy/sell more than 10G will HAVE to accept whatever is the going price so that they can dump the 10G and put in another bid.
Meanwhile the PROs will set up multiple accounts and still put 100G lots, just 10G at a time, in each account.
Ya, I thought of that as well. You could tie it to IP's but then you would need to increase the limit, as well as possible things like limiting the amount to the character and it's level but that's only a temporary fix. And tying it to an IP can still be avoided with a proxy. It's something that's impossible to stop, at best they can come up with annoyances to discourage people from doing it.
Also, I've found on DW that it doesn't take 100, all it really takes is about 30, though it could be done much easier with 40 (you would still need coin on hand to buy more with a mere 40 though). And, that price spikes will stay in place until a worthwhile sale is over and prices begin to normally decline.0 -
Every day another 30, 40, 50million (its probably alot more than this) coin is generated in each server, said "coin sinks" dont take enough of it back, this is why there is gold price inflation. All of that excess coin goes to people, the average amount of coin in someones safe rises gradually over time.
Things like the 1mil chest will actually stop people selling gold because theyll just quest for it, or cat shop purchase, buy the hammer with their RL$$ and solve their in game coin problem, no need to put that 5 gold into the AH for them now, so over time the mil cube will cause greater inflation of gold value due to the inevitable shortage of gold in the AH.
Ontop of that reducing the price of mounts further justifies the higher cost of gold for sellers (to some extent)
And of course Jolly only pumped more coin into the economy as well through oracle coin rewards more than likely a greater amount than 100k gift box purchases.
Nothing PWI has done in the past 2 months has been in aid of lowering gold prices. Nothing you post on the message board will change the attitudes of those who dont read the message board and just want however much gold it is they need for their next charm, mount, reset, esoterica or whatever they want.
In the end the whining about inflated gold prices will fail, more people will cave in and buy Zen, the only ones wholl be really screwed over and leave in droves are the 12 and 13 year olds who genuinely cant afford Zen but they're no big loss coz they annoy people more than anything else really.
Either way PWE, the company, wins.
Hats off to PWE, great game, great cash cow b:victory0 -
Coin sink?
Maybe they should create new instance 90+, when u have to buy ticket to go in. And this ticked would be expensive like 2kk and u can go in just 1 time on day. In this instance could be quests for coins too, on mobs(which are inside)with incredibly exp as reward. Player could do like 3 quests a day there, and pay for them. Maybe time spend in cave should be limited. And mobs would haven't any drop, have high attack, and e hard to defeat(high cost of repairs b:chuckle). Player need to done it solo!
So..
u pay 2kk
go in
go to npc
pay him for quest from list (likein 1manArmy, but u have to pay for this and reward is bigger)
do quest
get exp
(repeat it 2-3 times or time limited and very hard mobs to defeat)
and reward could be like 500k exp .. ? or maybe something else not exp.. hmm.... maybe like bikini in past, some originally fashion or mount(but not for one quest, I think that should be good to have items for quests did there and for this items get fash/mount/smth else..).
Do this quest should be VERY SLOW and EXPENSIVE but with VERY tempting reward.
Haven't more ideas.. b:sadMy chars: 97 barb, 87 cleric, 91 veno, 80 archer, 74 Blademaster, 34 Psychic, 30 Assasin, 20 Wizard, 44 Seeker, 20 Mistyc.
^ I have SO many personalities to play them all! b:cute
And YAY for my Phoenix!(on THIS veno ^^) b:victory0 -
Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »You want to know why gold is still that high? Part of it is them adding coin to servers to inflate what people have (makes gold relatively less expensive) and another part is that people know how to manipulate the gold market. It only takes about 100 million coin to set whatever gold price you want. And if you're patient, far less than that. You see the people that put in 25, 35, 100, etc gold buys at a certain price? Every single one of those raises the price on gold. The reason for this is because people are impatient and will bid over it by 100 coin, then 200, and so on. Resulting in most of those buys not being bought, and the person putting them in again at a higher price. I've watched it happen 4 times today so far. Each time it jumped the price on gold by 6-8k on DW and I would bet it was all by the same person.
If you want gold prices to drop, convince PWI to allow each account to only have in 10 gold buys at once. No daily limit, but a way to prevent those large amounts of gold buys from being placed (of which, very few are bought) as those only serve to raise the price rather than get the player gold.
I like your idea, but id be more extreme
Only allow "fresh" gold to be sold
-only the ones bought with RL money, not the one you bought in AH and resale at higher pricesI look at all the trollers, and Pvpers.. and know they wouldnt have lasted 30sec on Camelot.
Rules= Know your enemy (players and NPCs) gives you more chances to survive.0 -
OK, I see what you're saying. I certainly agree that every time I've ever put in a bid for more than, say, 10 Gold, the market reacts to my bid. I'm certainly affecting the market, and people do respond by over/under bidding me.Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »I didn't mean it's intentional by people, it very well could be but I think most of it is due to people not realizing others aren't going to bid behind their 30 or 50 gold. They're going to pay 100 coin more and get it hours sooner.
It's not price fixing either, it's precisely what you're getting at buy low/sell high, except with an added step to raise gold (again, intentional or unintentional, it doesn't matter which it is... people do it, and it happens) higher rather than simply letting it fluctuate.
What I thought you were referring to was the practice of playing both sides. When I hear "manipulate the market", that's the kind of thing I think of. For example, there have been plenty of times where it would have been possible to buy out all of the "Sell" offers, leaving no Gold available, then reselling the Gold at much higher prices.
From my experience such attempts, while sometimes profitable, fail very frequently and generally are nowhere near as profitable as simply buying when you want to buy and selling when you want to sell, taking care of course to try to get the best possible prices.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Typically, I make say, 500k average coin a day from grinding and quests. Out of that, I'd say at max an average 100k a day goes on skills, repairs, npc items, travel, w/e. And that's because my aim is pretty much to make money. The other 400k simply moves to another player as I buy from auction house or catshops or wc. So I'm continually pumping coin into the system.
This example goes for most players.0 -
WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »OK, I see what you're saying. I certainly agree that every time I've ever put in a bid for more than, say, 10 Gold, the market reacts to my bid. I'm certainly affecting the market, and people do respond by over/under bidding me.
What I thought you were referring to was the practice of playing both sides. When I hear "manipulate the market", that's the kind of thing I think of. For example, there have been plenty of times where it would have been possible to buy out all of the "Sell" offers, leaving no Gold available, then reselling the Gold at much higher prices.
From my experience such attempts, while sometimes profitable, fail very frequently and generally are nowhere near as profitable as simply buying when you want to buy and selling when you want to sell, taking care of course to try to get the best possible prices.
Hmmm maybe you need to take lessons from your GF. I saw your post about how your rich EVIL GF manipulated the Gold to make it jump to 700K during the JJ event. LOL0 -
Well, yeah, that would have been great if people had actually paid the 700k! b:laughViper_girl - Heavens Tear wrote: »Hmmm maybe you need to take lessons from your GF. I saw your post about how your rich EVIL GF manipulated the Gold to make it jump to 700K during the JJ event. LOL
We didn't try selling it, though, so who knows what its actual value would have been? There was about a 30 minute window before somebody offered more for sale, but by that time it had already been converted to Spring Packs for an easy profit of 20%. Frankly, I don't think trying to resell it at 240k (the same 20% profit) would have been worth the risk.
But you do raise a good point in that people's perceptions can definitely be manipulated pretty easily.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
Anberlin - Lost City wrote: »Which one? b:embarrass
Yes greedy indeedKitsuneh - Lost City wrote: »JJ event may drain coins but in bad way.. Gold trading is between JJ and in-game coins.
People use dolls instead of 100k to buy JJ event stuff -> people need possibly gold to get dolls -> Gold sellers understand this and put higher gold prices due of increased demand -> event stuff may be cheap but all other items in Cash shop isnt. Instead they are more expensive than before JJ. -> PWI put all kind of sales (so people could buy CS stuff again <-from my point of view) -> again, greedy gold sellers........
^^Shortly.
Only way to fix the economy: Put something up which doesnt require any CS item or gold.
Or put gold price limits.
remeber the only way to lower gold prices is to fight fire with fire, manipulate it to lower it down. And when a gm winks twice before a update that means another JJb:shockedb:shedtearb:infuriatedb:irritated
b:sleep
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Baby theres no other super star you know that i'll be..Listening to lady gaga b:laugh0
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