2 weeks since Jones and...

FionaCattail - Sanctuary

Gold prices are STILL 45k/G higher than they were before the event.. so tell me again.. how did the jones event help the economy?

Fireblood - Harshlands

That's just what they wanted you to believe

Belligero - Sanctuary

It uh.....

It... um.... I-it did that thing, you know?

*shrugs* Hm.. b:surrender

ShoeFury - Sanctuary

Cube coin boxes b:shocked

Gnomes - Sanctuary

ShoeFury - Sanctuary wrote: »

Cube coin boxes b:shocked

And the bigger problem....the never-ending string of sales.

Viper_girl - Heavens Tear

FionaCattail - Sanctuary wrote: »

Gold prices are STILL 45k/G higher than they were before the event.. so tell me again.. how did the jones event help the economy?

No one ever said "it would help the economy" ... oh wait I think a GM did say "it would drain coin" but I think that statement was a big blunder which is why that thread got unstickied really fast.

The JJ event made PWI a bunch of cash and helped experienced and rich players get richer. Well I made a bunch off of it too, so I ain't complaining.

FionaCattail - Sanctuary

ShoeFury - Sanctuary wrote: »

Cube coin boxes b:shocked

that's both true and false.. I don't think the cube coin boxes caused gold to go up, I think that they are causing it to remain up, but if the jones event hadn't caused the cost of gold to go up, I think we'd still see gold prices where they were.. just that supply would be a bit more scarce

No one ever said "it would help the economy" ... oh wait I think a GM did say "it would drain coin" but I think that statement was a big blunder which is why that thread got unstickied really fast.

GM said that after the event, gold prices would return to what they were before the event.. which they haven't.. so, once again, the GMs lied to us.. typical..

if you guys really want to help the economy, rather than the AH doing it, why not create an npc that does a flat rate.. 100k/G or 120k/G or whatever and make a standard "this is what gold costs" rather than if fluctuating, not only on a per hour basis, but on a per server basis.. I mean, is it fair that gold costs 160k on 1 server and 250k on another just because the server with the 250k cost has more high level players?

Kardie - Dreamweaver

jolly jones helped the economy by creating more high levels which do rebirth gammas/deltas and bring even more coin in to the economy. /sarcasm.

Belligero - Sanctuary

This isn't going to be another 5+ Page thread about people ranting on the economy again, is it? Nothing new can be brought up anymore...

Yes. We get it. Our economy is pretty screwed up right now. Only the players can fix it. But since we're too greedy, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

FionaCattail - Sanctuary

Belligero - Sanctuary wrote: »

This isn't going to be another 5+ Page thread about people ranting on the economy again, is it? Nothing new can be brought up anymore...

Yes. We get it. Our economy is pretty screwed up right now. Only the players can fix it. But since we're too greedy, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

actually, if you read my posts, you'll see that there IS a way pwi could fix the economy, but it won't happen, because it makes sense, and they've proven that they don't.

I mean some examples, aside from the economy.. you have a single mob in gamma 
called "Aqua Wraiths"  on top of that, it's a WOOD mob..

you have a mob in Frost called the "Blazing Phoenix" but it's a WATER mob

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

FionaCattail - Sanctuary wrote: »

actually, if you read my posts, you'll see that there IS a way pwi could fix the economy, but it won't happen, because it makes sense, and they've proven that they don't.

I mean some examples, aside from the economy.. you have a single mob in gamma 
called "Aqua Wraiths"  on top of that, it's a WOOD mob..

you have a mob in Frost called the "Blazing Phoenix" but it's a WATER mob

I lost my trust towards most GMs after Lost City's scandal

but if GMs did what u suggested then the players would stop buying golds most probably since they already tasted the coins they can make with these insane prices

FionaCattail - Sanctuary

I don't think they would because in Dec, gold prices were 102k/G then the duke rose glitch and they went to 600k/G then they dropped back to 115k/G and were there for a time, then the first JJ event and they increased to 250k/G and dropped back to 125k/G after the event.. then the new JJ event and they increased to 250k/G and after the event dropped to 165k/G.. I think if the developers made a flat "100k/G" or "120k/G" people would still sell gold, especially if they wanted/needed the coin so they could by molds and whatnots that they need/want

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

FionaCattail - Sanctuary wrote: »

that's both true and false.. I don't think the cube coin boxes caused gold to go up, I think that they are causing it to remain up, but if the jones event hadn't caused the cost of gold to go up, I think we'd still see gold prices where they were.. just that supply would be a bit more scarce

You're absolutely correct. It's nice to see a simple summary of what's happened, minus the conspiracy theories or angry insults/finger-pointing. b:laugh

FionaCattail - Sanctuary wrote: »

if you guys really want to help the economy, rather than the AH doing it, why not create an npc that does a flat rate.. 100k/G or 120k/G or whatever and make a standard "this is what gold costs" rather than if fluctuating, not only on a per hour basis, but on a per server basis.. I mean, is it fair that gold costs 160k on 1 server and 250k on another just because the server with the 250k cost has more high level players?

The problem with that idea is that the Gold market is the foundation of PWI's business model, more so than direct cash-shop sales I suspect. A lot of free games depend solely upon cash-shop item sales, but having an exchange where real-life money can be traded for in-game money is a really smart idea.

If an NPC sold Gold, however, then there's no revenue stream and the business model collapses. I really don't think that would be good for the game, and PWI would probably end up as yet another failed f2p game.

FionaCattail - Sanctuary

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

If an NPC sold Gold, however, then there's no revenue stream and the business model collapses. I really don't think that would be good for the game, and PWI would probably end up as yet another failed f2p game.

I guess I didn't explain it clear enough.. I'm not talking about just having an npc sell gold, I'm talking about rather than a pc being able to set their own price for the gold they sell that the price is just "set" so if they have 25G in their account, and they select "sell" rather than asking them how much per and how many, they just get asked "how many" and the how much is pre-defined..

Crazydan - Heavens Tear

Dont blame the GMs because of greedy players cause remember only u can control gold prices b:cute

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

FionaCattail - Sanctuary wrote: »

I guess I didn't explain it clear enough.. I'm not talking about just having an npc sell gold, I'm talking about rather than a pc being able to set their own price for the gold they sell that the price is just "set" so if they have 25G in their account, and they select "sell" rather than asking them how much per and how many, they just get asked "how many" and the how much is pre-defined..

This simply wont work. Its basic supply & demand economics. As the price does down, the supply goes down, from less desire to sell for a lower price. However as the price goes down the demand increases, as more can afford it. Right now the supply & demand are in equalibrium (whether you like the price equalibrium or not, it is the point where the desire to sell = the desire to buy). What would happen is many less would sell, many more would buy, and you would be unable to buy your gold on the AH unless you were a watcher ready to snipe. I'm not saying none would be posted, just signifigantly less then the demand for it. Since none would be available, the gold snipers would buy Cash shop loot, and mark up the prices (as cash shop items would also be more scarce). In addition, Many would sell gold over World Trade... and i'd rather the auction monitering no scams then have to rely on player honesty. Simply put, the price of gold would generally reach the same equalibrium as it has already, you just wouldnt be able to use the Auction House to buy it, as it would become obsolete.

The problem, The rich are too rich, the poor are too poor. There's way too many willing and able to pay such a high price for gold. The economy needs to be drained. Jolly Jones (ignoring what the GM said) was NOT a coin drain on the economy, and Coin Boxes are simply allowing ppl to add more coin into the economy. The coin economy needs a coin sink, and badly.

MiKaeLo - Sanctuary

Ya know what would make the gold prices go down easy... ask GM/DEV to make an NPC that sells gold for 115 or 120k each, that for sure will bring the prices down b:chuckle but it'll never happen b:laugh of course they won't make profit from it...b:shutup

FionaCattail - Sanctuary

MiKaeLo - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ya know what would make the gold prices go down easy... ask GM/DEV to make an NPC that sells gold for 115 or 120k each, that for sure will bring the prices down b:chuckle but it'll never happen b:laugh of course they won't make profit from it...b:shutup

you haven't read a single word of this thread, have you?

FionaCattail - Sanctuary

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This simply wont work. Its basic supply & demand economics. As the price does down, the supply goes down, from less desire to sell for a lower price. However as the price goes down the demand increases, as more can afford it. Right now the supply & demand are in equalibrium (whether you like the price equalibrium or not, it is the point where the desire to sell = the desire to buy). What would happen is many less would sell, many more would buy, and you would be unable to buy your gold on the AH unless you were a watcher ready to snipe. I'm not saying none would be posted, just signifigantly less then the demand for it. Since none would be available, the gold snipers would buy Cash shop loot, and mark up the prices (as cash shop items would also be more scarce). In addition, Many would sell gold over World Trade... and i'd rather the auction monitering no scams then have to rely on player honesty. Simply put, the price of gold would generally reach the same equalibrium as it has already, you just wouldnt be able to use the Auction House to buy it, as it would become obsolete.

The problem, The rich are too rich, the poor are too poor. There's way too many willing and able to pay such a high price for gold. The economy needs to be drained. Jolly Jones (ignoring what the GM said) was NOT a coin drain on the economy, and Coin Boxes are simply allowing ppl to add more coin into the economy. The coin economy needs a coin sink, and badly.

I disagree with your logic for the simple fact that when gold prices were 120k/G there was plenty available for people, now, it's 165, and it's actually less availability because people feel they are getting ripped off if they buy G from the AH and they offer people coin directly for boutique items..

Fireblood - Harshlands

FionaCattail - Sanctuary wrote: »

you haven't read a single word of this thread, have you?

I doubt it, actually im sure of it XD

Faildom - Harshlands

Yeah this gold price is ****ing annoying, this game sucks so bad with gold at 220k ea

FionaCattail - Sanctuary

agreed, and it wouldn't be such an issue except that because the players control it.. I mean, I know at least one person who is a "rich mama's boy" who has the ability of spending $100+/wk on the game while others are lucky to spend 10-20/mo and it's people like him who control the price of gold, not the ones who have very little to spend..

it's easy to say "if you don't like the price of gold, then don't buy it" but we all know that there are things that do make gameplay alot easier (guardian angels for example) that people want to buy..

and it's easy to say "if noone buys gold, then the cost will go down" but we also know that the human mindset is "I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, and I want it now" (to quote a song)

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

FionaCattail - Sanctuary wrote: »

I disagree with your logic for the simple fact that when gold prices were 120k/G there was plenty available for people, now, it's 165, and it's actually less availability because people feel they are getting ripped off if they buy G from the AH and they offer people coin directly for boutique items..

Well, I can only speak for myself, but if Gold was set to 120k I know I'd buy it all. I can afford about 300 Gold at that price, which is usually more than the AH has on-sale at any one time.

I'd then buy cash-shop items like Gold Charms, then re-sell them at inflated prices to take advantage of the Gold shortage. I would be only be one of many doing this, of course.

Frankly, I don't think this would be fair to everyone else.

MiKaeLo - Sanctuary

FionaCattail - Sanctuary wrote: »

you haven't read a single word of this thread, have you?

Personally idc as long as everyones paying the same amount just as I do won't make any difference at all - QQ now and you all will QQ more coz it'll never go down and will keep on going up, not just gold prices this includes every other items just like every other F2P MMOs b:pleasedb:chuckleb:victory

Edit: instead of QQ in the forum, go grind or farm and make money to buy those overpriced golds maybe that would help noh?

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

An NPC that sells gold at 100k or whatever wouldnt work. I have seen cat shops with stacks of 50 coin boxes. Once you see 100k gold you will see people buy 50 gold hammers and come out 25million ahead.

You already have high level people with millions and millions of coin. How exactly can you get rid of these coins completely?

Repairs? Crazy stone? Ammo? Teleport fees? High levels already have all their skills maxed. The only thing I can think of on the level of millions of coin fee is the director letter in the cube of fate which takes 1million coin. Still I dont think the reward from doing the Cube of fate twice a day is worth 1million coin to most people. There needs to be something in game with high coin cost and high reward. There just isnt.

Calliope - Heavens Tear

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The coin economy needs a coin sink, and badly.

This is true, but it'd be extremely difficult to implement. In order for a coin sink to be effective, you basically have to make it non-optional. Consider the coin sinks in the game right now:

1) skills. These cost a ton of coins to level up, until you hit the highest levels. High levels who don't need to spend a big chunk of their coin on skills are a key reason why we have inflation.

2) repair costs. These are basically negligible, since almost everything you do that incurs repair costs produces more coins that it costs. It's a good "hidden" coin sink for TT/BH, I guess.

3) teleport costs. Again, close to negligible. The problem is that if you save 5 minutes by teleporting, you can kill a few mobs and make more coin than the teleport itself cost. The good side is that people will go to great lengths to avoid teleporting, and all that afk flying keeps them from earning coins.

4) shards. Most hp/magic/phy shards these days are produced by jolly/rebirth, which is another big reason why we have inflation. The only real coin sink with shards is for Crazy Stone, which is a good one.

5) AH fees. Not much of a deduction, unfortunately.

And that's about it, unless people buy a lot of potions or ammo from npcs. Everything else you spend your coins on keeps them in the hands of players.

If people would buy genie gear from the Watcher of the Earth, that'd be a nice coin sink, but it's horribly overpriced for what it does. That's the problem with optional coin sinks--they have to provide something people really really want, like teleporting, or else people will just not pay the coins.

I'm honestly at a loss for what else could make an effective coin sink. You could force people to pay to level up, or to pay to enter more areas of the game, but everyone would hate that.

Edit: Asterelle posted as I was writing this, I forgot about that directorate letter. That reminds me that mysterious chips also have a high fee, but you get so few chips that the fees rarely come into play. There's an elegant solution to inflation: more chips! You could even make people pay coins for the chips, then you drain coins twice.

Telarith - Sanctuary

For anyone who evidently didn't pay attention, prices spiked up very high during the first JJ event. It took about 3-4 months before prices actually fell to a level close to normal. Even then over-all price was 10k more on average than before the event. It only went to normal for one day, before going back to the new average. I know, because I had started merchanting, so I was tracking gold prices this entire time.

Waiting weeks after an event to toss off all these ideas is either amnesia at work, or simply not having an informed view. For the first month or two after the first JJ event, gold dropped very little from the initial high point. So while box of coins will have an effect, no one actually know until 2+ months after the last JJ event. Then we can somewhat compare to the drop from last time. When there are more event sales no one really cares about, think it took 3 weekends in a row of non-hot sales for prices to drop last time, that is when to look at it. Course, that'll likely be a time hammers get bought too.

All in all, prices will be higher than they were for a few reasons:

People are higher level and getting end game gear. They will be using more gold to socket and refine their final gear, and have coin they don't need as much with skills being maxed as well.

Coin boxes will have an effect, but people thinking only a couple hundred zhen get charged per server a day is very much wrong. Think more along the lines of a couple thousand +, so just how much effect coin boxes will have is still to be seen.

In cheaper gold price's favor, is that there is much more exposure for buying zhen than there was before. Being in many stores makes it easier for a larger audience to take advantage of it. Hopefully with school starting back up, kids 22 and under will make use of that since they won't be able to spend as much time grinding/earning money.

Vezz - Heavens Tear

Would another Jolly Jones event with only the 100k coins option help the economy ?
The GA option would not be available.

May have to wait a few weeks to make it more attractive or add a small chance for a rare mount.

Anberlin - Lost City

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I lost my trust towards most GMs after Lost City's scandal

Which one? b:embarrass

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

Vezz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Would another Jolly Jones event with only the 100k coins option help the economy ?
The GA option would not be available.

May have to wait a few weeks to make it more attractive or add a small chance for a rare mount.

Yes, it would. But PWI wouldn't get the same revenue from the event.

There's where PWI has some serious problem solving (and/or soul-searching) to do. The more virtual stuff they let people buy, the more income they get, but the more bloated the in-game economy gets as well. The trick is to generate revenue without having the in-game economy spiral out of control.

Olba - Sanctuary

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes, it would. But PWI wouldn't get the same revenue from the event.

There's where PWI has some serious problem solving (and/or soul-searching) to do. The more virtual stuff they let people buy, the more income they get, but the more bloated the in-game economy gets as well. The trick is to generate revenue without having the in-game economy spiral out of control.

Indeed. I used to play a F2P golf simulator that had a hugely bloated economy due to hackers filling the game with currency. It was to the point where the maximum allowed price for an item wasn't even close to enough to paying for the rarest of items, you had to pay up to 5 times that, which caused all of them to end up in collections, in the hands of hackers or being used in scams. What happened was that the original developing company took the game back, wiped all accounts clean of currency and started actively banning hackers and reporting the amounts of "dirty currency" that was wiped out. An interesting, though temporary solution. Of course, it wouldn't work here, because people are too attached to charms, guardian angels and resurrections, so it would cause a major uproar if TW factions suddenly couldn't afford any of that anymore.