is it worth it having a veno?
Comments
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TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »venos are the class that gets the most amount of cash from grinding, and killing mobs is 80% of the game
Well consider this. Venos pretty much require a Herc and Nix at lvl 70+ if they are not to be underpowered and unwanted.
That cost is now somewhere in the range of 70-80 Million coin at current exchange rates.
Factor that in and the Veno moneymaking now makes a bit of sense. Even so it is still freaking hard to make that kind of coin without spending real cash.0 -
Neither a herc or nix are needed at level 70+ or any other level for that matter.
When it comes to grinding, the simple fact is that a veno does not need mana pots, hp pots, ammo, and they have next to no repair fees.
I'm not pulling this out of my ****, I have a level 86 veno myself. Anything I do on her makes money. Go help someone with this, make money. Help, someone with that, make money. Go do a quest, make money.
Whereas on my cleric, I can't even grind efficiently, because at the end of the line, when you take into account a dead mana charm, repair fees, and eso scrolls - I'm lucky if I make ANY profit at all. Most of the time, it's breaking even.
Not to mention the fact that helping anyone with anything, actually costs money, especially if you're a barb or a cleric.
So no, it's not hard making coin for a veno. Unless you're a full dex build who doesn't use pets and likes to throw magic at the mobs.b:dirty0 -
I see and hear this quite a lot about Veno being an easy class to play and easy to make money.
When you consider what a Veno has to do, lure mobs, level pets, buff tank, spam sparks, heal pets, tank mobs and all also attack enemies I wouldn't consider Veno to be the easiest class to "play." When you consider that an archer had to spam skills and be careful not to pul agro, I would consider this a much easier class to play.
When people say that Veno is an easy class, I think what they mean to say is that it is a good solo class that is fast to level.
Yes Veno's make money easier than every other class thanks to their ability to solo but can anyone else name another class that needs to spend somewhere between 20-25m on their weapon. When you consider that to be a good Veno you need a Herc and Nix (both which have to be leveled) and which cost close to 50m. On top of that we need the same TT armours and weapons as everyone else. Tell me again why is it an easy class to play???
We can't make easy money from TT's as you need ult subs to solo (and drops are nerfed in solo mode) or you need a party to let you into and then leave you to it. Not to mention they take an age to complete.
I guess to sum it up, Veno is an easy class to pick up and play to get started but to be a good Veno it takes a long time and a lot of money.
All that said, I still love playing it and wouldn't swap for any other class. b:laugh[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Lag? What lag?0 -
Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »Neither a herc or nix are needed at level 70+ or any other level for that matter.
I'm not so sure about that if you want to tank bosses or do TW.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Lag? What lag?0 -
Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »Neither a herc or nix are needed at level 70+ or any other level for that matter.
Whereas on my cleric, I can't even grind efficiently, because at the end of the line, when you take into account a dead mana charm, repair fees, and eso scrolls - I'm lucky if I make ANY profit at all. Most of the time, it's breaking even.
Apply your logic to Clerics, you don't NEED mana charms, eso scrolls etc. It makes it easier and it makes your Cleric more useful and desirable in groups.
Same thing goes for Venos, granted they can be played without a Herc or Nix but they become 2nd rate Venos in other players eyes just as a Cleric without a mana Charm and decent level res and heals are.
So take just a fraction of the 70mil that the Herc and Nix cost and put that into your Cleric bank and things start to even out.0 -
u just pointed out how much easy is that class actuallyPannelo - Heavens Tear wrote: »I see and hear this quite a lot about Veno being an easy class to play and easy to make money.
When you consider what a Veno has to do, lure mobs, level pets, buff tank, spam sparks, heal pets, tank mobs and all also attack enemies I wouldn't consider Veno to be the easiest class to "play." When you consider that an archer had to spam skills and be careful not to pul agro, I would consider this a much easier class to play.
When people say that Veno is an easy class, I think what they mean to say is that it is a good solo class that is fast to level.
Yes Veno's make money easier than every other class thanks to their ability to solo but can anyone else name another class that needs to spend somewhere between 20-25m on their weapon. When you consider that to be a good Veno you need a Herc and Nix (both which have to be leveled) and which cost close to 50m. On top of that we need the same TT armours and weapons as everyone else. Tell me again why is it an easy class to play???
We can't make easy money from TT's as you need ult subs to solo (and drops are nerfed in solo mode) or you need a party to let you into and then leave you to it. Not to mention they take an age to complete.
I guess to sum it up, Veno is an easy class to pick up and play to get started but to be a good Veno it takes a long time and a lot of money.
All that said, I still love playing it and wouldn't swap for any other class. b:laugh[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »u just pointed out how much easy is that class actually
Care to explain how then, obviously you quite clearly missed every single point I made.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Lag? What lag?0 -
Pannelo - Heavens Tear wrote: »Care to explain how then, obviously you quite clearly missed every single point I made.
just ignore him he is so bad veno hater cuz he failed as veno he needed roll on barb and now evil venos kill him on pve server with bramble guard and hes poor and venos are uber rich with ultimate pets which dont cost anything to get u get em for free when u play veno or atleast smt like that mr.goliath thinks0 -
Stop the veno ego diva ****....I get that venos are truly the easiest class to play in the game. You can't truly deny the fact that the things she mentioned above make venos the easiest class to play so get your facts straight.0
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Goliath, I think the point I am trying to make is that with every class you get good players and bad players. To be a good Veno you need to spend a lot of time and money to become good. I would say the funds we make are relative to the amount we have to spend so I'm not sure why you would think that it make Veno easy. I think the hate comes from us being able to tank imo.
It is like saying that a barb doesn't have to have crasher armour. Of course they don't but if you want to be a good tank you do and you have to invest you time and money into getting it. Having gimped armour at high level doesn't make a good tank.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Lag? What lag?0 -
Pannelo - Heavens Tear wrote: »Goliath, I think the point I am trying to make is that with every class you get good players and bad players. To be a good Veno you need to spend a lot of time and money to become good. I would say the funds we make are relative to the amount we have to spend so I'm not sure why you would think that it make Veno easy. I think the hate comes from us being able to tank imo.
It is like saying that a barb doesn't have to have crasher armour. Of course they don't but if you want to be a good tank you do and you have to invest you time and money into getting it. Having gimped armour at high level doesn't make a good tank.
Im srry that i said that. You made an excellent and wise point right there. It takes alot of hard work and money to get the legendary pets to be the best player. As a cleric, im proud to be one of the efficient healers because ive spent money on charms and healing skills. I take back what i saidb:shocked0 -
I'd say....
It's very very easy to be a bad veno, and bad veno's are still good enough much of the time. They stay alive, they gain XP and coin, they muddle through.
To be a good veno - there's a lot more buttons to hit than any other class has. Sure, it still aint rocket science, but it is more complicated than people think.
And they make a little more coin, gain XP a little faster and can fight a few more levels above themselves than they would otherwise.
Whereas the difference between a good and a bad cleric is a short trip to town.
The legendary pets are a problem, though. Because they exist, people think that all venomancers do it "Buy the pet and there's no skill to it" (and they are partly right, the legendary pets have fewer active skill slots)
But even with those pets, there's a difference between a good and a bad veno. I know I'm not the best veno around...
Edit:
Think how annoyed barbs get when told "Oh, you just hold down fleshream" and clerics get told "Oh, you just hold down IH blessing"
You gotta admit, in some situations, that is pretty much true. And in some situations, all I need to do is tell my pet to attack.
But sometimes, sometimes you gotta do more interesting things.0 -
Loner - Harshlands wrote: »Lol, too bad you're on a pve server and couldn't kill her after the fb b:chuckle
Well, she it was a guild party so I wouldn't have been able to anyway without stupid drama.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Apparently they don't/can't do it enough to keep ahead of everyone else in levels. Your assertion that they do it "exactly like everyone else" is clearly wrong.TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »are u freaking kidding me, venos after 90+ do rebirths exactly like everyone else and level like everyone else there's no point in saying that they are harder to level at endgame
So your assertion is that there are fewer venos out there than the polls say? Venos make up about 24% of the top 50 level characters across all the servers. So if venos make up less than 24% of the characters being played at any one time, that means they're under-represented in the top-level rankings. If you "see 90+ venos everywhere" as you say below, that's actually evidence supporting my argument that venos are harder to level at the highest levels.the forum polls aren't trustable, I personally switched 5 avatars and voted 5 times in a poll just for fun so I don't see how can they be trustable dude, seriously
I took the % from PWI's own stats:where did u get that ratio level table cuz I see 90+ venos everywhere, the point may be that there are so many venos - mind that many venos are other ppl's alts - that they don't get all to high level... but still I can clearly see how they outnumber us
http://pwi.perfectworld.com/rank
and divided it by the % in the polls.
I've suspected for a while that the veno's ability to solo is a red herring. That in the time it takes a high level veno to solo something, a decent full group could accomplish it more than 6 times. In other words, the veno can do it solo, but is less time-efficient at it than the other classes doing it grouped.as a final thought, yes, I think venos are overpowered before 90+ and they are still hard opponents for many classes after 90+ and they also have basically the same ways and opportunities as everyone else to level... they can even solo Blackhole Devourer for the 90+ OHT quest lol
e.g. A while back I timed how long it took my veno to solo the drake boss in FB59: 22 minutes. I added an archer around my level to the group: 8 minutes. Full party: 90 seconds. In terms of time efficiency, using the veno solo as 100%, this works out to:
Veno solo: 100%
Veno + archer: 138%
Party of 6: 244%
In other words, in the time it took my veno to kill the boss 1 time solo, the veno + archer could've killed 2.8 bosses (1.38 per party member). The full party could've killed 14.7 bosses (2.44 per party member).
So the other classes, if they're consistently able to find good groups (as they can in the bigger guilds), they gain exp, drops, etc. at a better rate than venos. The veno soloing when she has the option to group available is actually hurting her exp progress. But the veno class attracts a lot of people who prefer to solo even when they have the option to group. And thus venos do not dominate the top level rankings as they do the general playerbase.0 -
Pannelo - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm not so sure about that if you want to tank bosses or do TW.
Yes hai, I was talking about grinding, but since you insist.
You don't need a nix to purge and amp a cat barb. You don't need a nix to kill a squishy person with a bugged level 5 flesh ream. Sawfly does the job just fine. It gives you an edge granted, but it's FAR from being needed, and I've NEVER seen a veno be discriminated for not having a nix; TW or otherwise.
As for tanking bosses, yes you need a herc. If you can't afford one by the time you're 80, if not sooner, you're doing something wrong.Viper_girl - Heavens Tear wrote: »Apply your logic to Clerics, you don't NEED mana charms, eso scrolls etc. It makes it easier and it makes your Cleric more useful and desirable in groups.
Yes, we actually DO NEED mana charms. To be more specific, we need mana. Charms just so happen to actually be the cheapest source of it. Helluva lot cheaper than NPC pots, believe it or not. Jiaozi being even better, but they're an event item and as such, not always available.Same thing goes for Venos, granted they can be played without a Herc or Nix but they become 2nd rate Venos in other players eyes just as a Cleric without a mana Charm and decent level res and heals are.
So take just a fraction of the 70mil that the Herc and Nix cost and put that into your Cleric bank and things start to even out.
Whoa there. 70 mil? A legendary pet is roughly 25 mil on average. Even if you had both, that's nowhere near 70 mil.
Furthermore, a nix is far, far from needed. I've spent a better portion of my PWI life in one of the top 2 factions on sanctuary; never have I seen a veno not get squaded for TW just because they didn't have a nix, nor is it needed for grinding.
Again, I've never seen anyone think of someone as a 2nd rate veno just because they didn't have a nix.
Herc on the other hand, became a social norm, especially after all the sales of battle packs. But like I already said, if you can't afford one by the time you're 80, you're doing something wrong.
Also, I'd gladly pay 25mil for an infinite mp charm. As it is, I burn through a gold mp anywhere from one to three days (yay for jiaozi). Got my veno to 86 without ever using a charm or a pot, thanks to nature's grace, metabolic boost and soul transfusion.
If you want to "even things out", slap a 30 day timer on your herc, at the end of which you have to pay another 25 mil for another 30 days lease. That's about how much mana an active cleric burns through in the same amount of time.
And I assure you, it's about the same for barbs except with hp charms and repair fees.b:dirty0 -
Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »It's very very easy to be a bad veno, and bad veno's are still good enough much of the time. They stay alive, they gain XP and coin, they muddle through.
To be a good veno - there's a lot more buttons to hit than any other class has. Sure, it still aint rocket science, but it is more complicated than people think.
And they make a little more coin, gain XP a little faster and can fight a few more levels above themselves than they would otherwise.
Whereas the difference between a good and a bad cleric is a short trip to town.
The legendary pets are a problem, though. Because they exist, people think that all venomancers do it "Buy the pet and there's no skill to it" (and they are partly right, the legendary pets have fewer active skill slots)
But even with those pets, there's a difference between a good and a bad veno. I know I'm not the best veno around...
Edit:
Think how annoyed barbs get when told "Oh, you just hold down fleshream" and clerics get told "Oh, you just hold down IH blessing"
You gotta admit, in some situations, that is pretty much true. And in some situations, all I need to do is tell my pet to attack.
But sometimes, sometimes you gotta do more interesting things.
This. I'm a 95 veno, and I have neither a herc nor a nix. Part of that is because I was level 70 before they came out, part of that is because I tend to spend money as soon as I get it. But mainly, I don't really see a need for it. I've seen plenty of venos who have a herc, nix, or both, and while they can do one task faster than I can, they're horrible in an group or TW. Yes, you can spam heal pet and tank 3-1. Yes, you can click attack with a nix and kill someone. But you don't know how to do anything else. And that's where venos really shine - a good veno can do just about anything.HT clerics at their finest:
hari: can you do mdef debuffs? makes the fight go faster
naughty_x: waste, I do more damage without them
hari: ...you do more damage in 2 seconds than reducing mdef by 35% for 4 casters does in 20 seconds?
naughty_x: is waste, i do more damage
hari: 3-3 BH goes a lot faster with a sin
naughty_x: no, only a difference of like 3 minutes
hari: ...we've been in here a lot longer than 3 minutes already
naughty_x: your opinion0 -
Hari - Heavens Tear wrote: »This. I'm a 95 veno, and I have neither a herc nor a nix. Part of that is because I was level 70 before they came out, part of that is because I tend to spend money as soon as I get it. But mainly, I don't really see a need for it. I've seen plenty of venos who have a herc, nix, or both, and while they can do one task faster than I can, they're horrible in an group or TW. Yes, you can spam heal pet and tank 3-1. Yes, you can click attack with a nix and kill someone. But you don't know how to do anything else. And that's where venos really shine - a good veno can do just about anything.
I wish there were more people that understood this concept... Now we're not known as Venos. Now we're known as "Herc", or "Nix", or the "Easy" class... The quality of Venos has gone down as well. When you get told that a party doesn't normally accept Venos because most of them suck, there has to be something wrong with that picture...0 -
end of story
venos have it easy compared to other classes.
no bs about "we need nix and herc!" no you dont, makes things easier
ive been killed by venos without nix's, its not hard, you just need too....
LRN2PLAYURCL455! omg !Less QQ more Pew Pewb:thanks
"Don't argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience."
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Stickygreen - Heavens Tear wrote: »LRN2PLAYURCL455! omg !
Not that I argue with that part, but answer me one question.
Do you join in squads with Venos without Hercs?0 -
Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »Whoa there. 70 mil? A legendary pet is roughly 25 mil on average. Even if you had both, that's nowhere near 70 mil.
It used to be 20-25 mil. With current Gold prices at 180-220K the cost of a Herc or Nix is around 35Mil. 35Mil x 2=70Mil, unless you are lucky enough to get in on a Battle Pet sale.
As for how essential a Nix is... it gives you a big advantage over a Veno that doesn't have one in PvP, PvE and TW. So if you want to be the best Veno you can be then it becomes somewhat essential.
I can't comment on your Mana charm costs as I don't have a high level Cleric but certainly 25Mil per month sounds too high and I doubt most Clerics spend that since I don't believe most people can afford it.0 -
Mana charms are required for clerics in pvp and tw since the survivability granted by plume shell is dependant on the mp. What I enjoy doing is watching the coin value of my bow decrease with every arrow I fire. 2 coins for th arrow and 8 coins for repair. I'm basically firing money at every mob.
The only cost venos used to have was having to feed their pet but since now every player and their mom has an xmas blessing or tome even that cost went away.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Refining Simulator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/refiningsimulator.html (don't use IE)
Genie Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html - (don't use IE)
Socket Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/socketcalculator.html0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »Mana charms are required for clerics in pvp and tw since the survivability granted by plume shell is dependant on the mp. What I enjoy doing is watching the coin value of my bow decrease with every arrow I fire. 2 coins for th arrow and 8 coins for repair. I'm basically firing money at every mob.
And do you notice, how in a random distribution party, any arrows that actually drop don't go to the Archers, but to someone who can't use them at all, like the Cleric? I was running through FB89 a while back with a party, and had about 2k Dragotena Arrows drop by the time we were done. NONE of them actually went to the Archer. So, at the end of it, we all dropped them in a neat little pile at his feet. Only seems fair, really. In a squad of friends, people tend to make sure that the little things go where they belong. Like the pet food goes to the Veno, the Arrows go to the Archer, Helmets tend to go to the Melee classes, etc. It's a nice thing when you can trust the people you party with.0 -
*facepalm*dEternalnub - Heavens Tear wrote: »just ignore him he is so bad veno hater cuz he failed as veno he needed roll on barb and now evil venos kill him on pve server with bramble guard and hes poor and venos are uber rich with ultimate pets which dont cost anything to get u get em for free when u play veno or atleast smt like that mr.goliath thinks
Edit: I'm not calling venos bad players or idiots, u miserunderstood... I'm just blaming the class for being that imbalanced compared to others[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »*facepalm*d
Edit: I'm not calling venos bad players or idiots, u miserunderstood... I'm just blaming the class for being that imbalanced compared to others
i was just joking what i said but im so sick of ur veno hate posts...
how veno is imbalanced if its for people who dont like ****ty squads where kids cry if you do something wrong or some steal TT/fb drops...
i dont like any squads, i mostly solo my BH's etc, why ? cause i like to do em alone noone is telling me wat to do or can blame me that they died cause i didnt give chi or smt like that ;D0 -
that's called a MMORPGEternalnub - Heavens Tear wrote: »i was just joking what i said but im so sick of ur veno hate posts...
how veno is imbalanced if its for people who dont like ****ty squads where kids cry if you do something wrong or some steal TT/fb drops...
i dont like any squads, i mostly solo my BH's etc, why ? cause i like to do em alone noone is telling me wat to do or can blame me that they died cause i didnt give chi or smt like that ;D
if u want a solo RPG buy urself a Final Fantasy >.<[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »that's called a MMORPG
if u want a solo RPG buy urself a Final Fantasy >.<
soo you are saying that cause this is MMORPG i cant play alone ? even i play solo class owww ^^0 -
Strictly IMO, yes, if you like soloing or using your pet as a shield. Although that can depend on which build you go for. For most, it's easier (and perhaps more fun) to grind and best of all you don't have to spend as much HP and MP recovery pots, charms (especially spirit charms) and repairs, although that can depend on build too.Non-mule characters:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]....and Drazomyst.0 -
i like watching venos' tails wag when they fight. it makes them look so adorable b:chuckleElena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »i like watching venos' tails wag when they fight. it makes them look so adorable b:chuckle
I wonder if this is the point to go "As if, we know what you're really watching there you pervert"If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.
Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.0 -
Pannelo - Heavens Tear wrote: »I see and hear this quite a lot about Veno being an easy class to play and easy to make money.
When you consider what a Veno has to do, lure mobs, level pets, buff tank, spam sparks, heal pets, tank mobs and all also attack enemies I wouldn't consider Veno to be the easiest class to "play." When you consider that an archer had to spam skills and be careful not to pul agro, I would consider this a much easier class to play.
When people say that Veno is an easy class, I think what they mean to say is that it is a good solo class that is fast to level.
Yes Veno's make money easier than every other class thanks to their ability to solo but can anyone else name another class that needs to spend somewhere between 20-25m on their weapon. When you consider that to be a good Veno you need a Herc and Nix (both which have to be leveled) and which cost close to 50m. On top of that we need the same TT armours and weapons as everyone else. Tell me again why is it an easy class to play???
We can't make easy money from TT's as you need ult subs to solo (and drops are nerfed in solo mode) or you need a party to let you into and then leave you to it. Not to mention they take an age to complete.
I guess to sum it up, Veno is an easy class to pick up and play to get started but to be a good Veno it takes a long time and a lot of money.
All that said, I still love playing it and wouldn't swap for any other class. b:laugh
well...since venos make easier money than any other class wouldnt it be easier for them to make that kind of cash b:surrender is there something im missing..dont clerics have to spend **** loads of money on charms that they cant afford ....are cleric weapons cheaper than veno weapons? if so what is so speacial about a veno weapon? dont all mages get the same weapon? to my opinion the veno will always be the better one 2 play in terms of difficulty because in truth if a lvl90 the veno is 1 million times hard to play the cleric or a barb is gona be 2million times more harder to play still showin that the veno is easier to play0
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