Why Go Demon?

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Gush - demon is far better, sage version does nothing worth mentioning

Spark - you're a wizard, even if you use this, 2 people will **** your ****, channeling speed is amazing if you're doing 3-4k per gush/pyro. Demon wins completely

Masteries - 125% damage vs 120% damage & 1% (maybe 3? total) crit, toss up, higher damage is amazing with ults, so sage mastery matches their ult spam. Demon - more about sparking and fast casting, so increased chance of critting helps them. Also, the extra damage on gush/sandstorm also doubles, so nothing wrong with that.

Hailstorm - the extra damage doesn't mean much in most cases, but the increased chance of stopping that catapult puller from running any further so your BMs/clerics can stop them is great.

Emberstorm - you can have it go off right away, meaning it's a decent AOE stun for certain situations, including 1v1.

Sandstorm - nobody uses this to lower accuracy past 89, gtfo. The demon version of this is ****ing amazing, and one of the GREAT skills demon has to offer.

FoW - less cooldown = more usage, stops zhens, target control, and so on. The AOe range is too small to care about the sage version, might kick in once in a while in TWs but in 1v1 it's useless

Dragon's Breath - still usable in TW, chance of stun helps a lot more than some crappy HP heal which is static, meaning it'll still heal 500 hp regardless of whether you have 4k or 10k. Having it kick in while zhenning on/near a catapult is definately nice, means whatever BM gets stunned can't stun your team, means the barbs can't get chi/can't turtle, and so on.

question
everyone hates the extra damage on the sage skills but say its godly on demon skills, why?

in TW, most of my targets are already stunned so i just blast them apart with nukes
i also seen places where sage FoW would be helpful
when wizards zhen your catapult - sage FoW and bye bye wizzy zhen.

also i would use it to lower accuracy if it means the difference between life and death
i was using it today in PK mode and the BMs heavens flame missed me allowing me to finish him before dying.
Every little bit adds up

Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »

I don't think you know what emberstorm is or does. Its like perdition but you don't factor in mana just hp. And the skill is on a class with little HP. The only way emberstorm would be useful would be if A.) You have +12 Gears with insane Hp Shard or B.) If it would factor in mana. Emberstorm no matter what add on it has, sucks.


Spark will never be used in a PvP situation. Unless the people you are fight are to stupid to see the bright red glow and stun you.

As for the masteries its unknown whether it adds 1% crit to that element or 1% crit for anything. But since its an Element Based passive skill i beleive it adds to that element. Still its good but only if you had all three.

Hailstorm has a 33% Chance no matter what. Say you want to stop the cata and an archer or any other class is to stupid to stun/aim low, you use hailstorm. And if it doesnt work then use pitfall which when maxed has a 15% chance to work. But still since when is it a wizards job to do this? The time they are immobile is so minuscule.

Sage FoW- Ultimate TW Skill

Wizard- Ultimate TW Class
I dont see why this wouldnt work.

And as for rolling on the wrong PvP server. I came from LC and moved to HL i was level 85 knew i would always be a lowbie on the server. Nothing good would come from me staying. I had high expectation moving to HL and trust me i was disappointed.

^^~this~^^

Trawne - Lost City

Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »

I don't think you know what emberstorm is or does. Its like perdition but you don't factor in mana just hp. And the skill is on a class with little HP. The only way emberstorm would be useful would be if A.) You have +12 Gears with insane Hp Shard or B.) If it would factor in mana. Emberstorm no matter what add on it has, sucks.


Spark will never be used in a PvP situation. Unless the people you are fight are to stupid to see the bright red glow and stun you.

As for the masteries its unknown whether it adds 1% crit to that element or 1% crit for anything. But since its an Element Based passive skill i beleive it adds to that element. Still its good but only if you had all three.

Hailstorm has a 33% Chance no matter what. Say you want to stop the cata and an archer or any other class is to stupid to stun/aim low, you use hailstorm. And if it doesnt work then use pitfall which when maxed has a 15% chance to work. But still since when is it a wizards job to do this? The time they are immobile is so minuscule.

Sage FoW- Ultimate TW Skill

Wizard- Ultimate TW Class

I dont see why this wouldnt work.

And as for rolling on the wrong PvP server. I came from LC and moved to HL i was level 85 knew i would always be a lowbie on the server. Nothing good would come from me staying. I had high expectation moving to HL and trust me i was disappointed.

I dont think you know how to use emberstorm. b:lipcurl
click skill, click again, instant low end damage + 50% stun chance is what he's saying. you CAN cancel the channeling early making it take less hp (if your fast it wont take any) and do less damage. the stun chance remains.

Demon emberstorm and sandstorm are the only things that make me want to go demon. Everything else is either better with sage imo or a tossup and both are meh/good.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Trawne - Lost City wrote: »

I dont think you know how to use emberstorm. b:lipcurl
click skill, click again, instant low end damage + 50% stun chance is what he's saying. you CAN cancel the channeling early making it take less hp (if your fast it wont take any) and do less damage. the stun chance remains.

Demon emberstorm and sandstorm are the only things that make me want to go demon. Everything else is either better with sage imo or a tossup and both are meh/good.

you do realize the damage on sandstorm gets pvp reduction, right?

Rhyme - Harshlands

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

you do realize the damage on sandstorm gets pvp reduction, right?

Exactly so 1200 Damage is turn into about 300 extra damage in PvP

OMFG 300 DAMAGE SOO MUCH BETTER.

For some skills the add ons don't matter. If you didnt know both versions of the skill get MAJOR damage increase.

And with emberstorm, What can you do in 3 second get one skill off? I mean i understand a stun is a stun but your taking a major risk dont you think? Lets say it doesn't stun your right in the opponents face. If its a Bm you will more then likely be stun before you can double click on Emberstorm. If its a Veno your more then likely going to get luck scarab'd then bled by the nix. Cleric will more then likely sleep you, debuff, etc. But Cleric vs Wizard Fights are pointless because the cleric will just spam plume shot. Wiz vs Wiz... No comment. And barbs... these are usually the last thing you kill and the stun is just pointless.

Kristoph - Lost City

Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »

I don't think you know what emberstorm is or does. Its like perdition but you don't factor in mana just hp. And the skill is on a class with little HP. The only way emberstorm would be useful would be if A.) You have +12 Gears with insane Hp Shard or B.) If it would factor in mana. Emberstorm no matter what add on it has, sucks.

Spark will never be used in a PvP situation. Unless the people you are fight are to stupid to see the bright red glow and stun you.

Hailstorm has a 33% Chance no matter what. Say you want to stop the cata and an archer or any other class is to stupid to stun/aim low, you use hailstorm. And if it doesnt work then use pitfall which when maxed has a 15% chance to work. But still since when is it a wizards job to do this? The time they are immobile is so minuscule.

Sage FoW- Ultimate TW Skill

Read above on how to use Emberstorm, you seem to be the clueless one. You don't use it for damage, lol...

Sparking is often done in pvp, people with common sense and with or without anti stun pots will know how to time it and how to position yourself.

Demon Hailstorm = 50%... meaning half the time instead of once every 3 times. Demon Pitfall = 33% chance instead of 15%. Do you honestly not realize how much this helps? Who cares if the duration is short? It's enough for a BM, cleric or archer to catch up. It's still a few seconds longer they'll take to get to your base, allowing more time for a veno to debuff, for someone to stop them, to gank them and so on.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

question
everyone hates the extra damage on the sage skills but say its godly on demon skills, why?

in TW, most of my targets are already stunned so i just blast them apart with nukes
i also seen places where sage FoW would be helpful
when wizards zhen your catapult - sage FoW and bye bye wizzy zhen.

also i would use it to lower accuracy if it means the difference between life and death
i was using it today in PK mode and the BMs heavens flame missed me allowing me to finish him before dying.
Every little bit adds up

What extra damage on sage skills? Only thing I can think of is the masteries, and they aren't hated... so you don't make much sense. Sage FoW = 3m. 3m is hardly ever useful, maybe only in TW, but honestly, I'm hardly in situations where it'd actually help. Would be much more useful in general PK to be able to use it more often. And for TW, either you interrupt one person with a small chance of getting someone else too, or you get to use it more often on a single person... both are useful.

And lol @ accuracy. You use sandstorm to kill, not to lower accuracy. And either way, the amount of accuracy lowered is the same. I rather take extra damage over duration. And yes, 1200 is quite a lot. 300 in pvp, 400 with undine, 500 with amp, 600-1000 if you crit. Every extra bit helps when going for a hiero bypass, which is how you should be killing archers. If you can tick someone's hiero with one attack, a crit means it's a oneshot. Demon Sandstorm is perfect for that.


This Rhyme has to be some kind of troll, you can't seriously be that stupid and not realize how useful stuns are for wizards. If you're an idiot and don't do anything but shrinking around hitting people rather than caring about target control then there's not much worth saying.

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

question
everyone hates the extra damage on the sage skills but say its godly on demon skills, why?

^^~this~^^

We are not saying extra damage on gush is fantastic, we are saying that the sage version of gush is soo useless, the damage is better then nothing.

Trawne - Lost City

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

you do realize the damage on sandstorm gets pvp reduction, right?

yes. which is why it's not a big factor and i've said before when people say demon gush is better. 150 dmg vs 5% move speed is "meh" neither is awesome.

i'm not advocating demon i think it's a waste. sage is much better in the end

mazzle

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Dragon's Breath - still usable in TW, chance of stun helps a lot more than some crappy HP heal which is static, meaning it'll still heal 500 hp regardless of whether you have 4k or 10k. Having it kick in while zhenning on/near a catapult is definately nice, means whatever BM gets stunned can't stun your team, means the barbs can't get chi/can't turtle, and so on.

Not sure about you but when ever i use Dragons Breath im hitting multiple targets, 25% chance to gain 500HP from each of those can add up to quite a lot, though i do agree that sage version stun is better, but i dsagree about demon version being static because of my reason listed above.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Read above on how to use Emberstorm, you seem to be the clueless one. You don't use it for damage, lol...

Sparking is often done in pvp, people with common sense and with or without anti stun pots will know how to time it and how to position yourself.

Demon Hailstorm = 50%... meaning half the time instead of once every 3 times. Demon Pitfall = 33% chance instead of 15%. Do you honestly not realize how much this helps? Who cares if the duration is short? It's enough for a BM, cleric or archer to catch up. It's still a few seconds longer they'll take to get to your base, allowing more time for a veno to debuff, for someone to stop them, to gank them and so on.


What extra damage on sage skills? Only thing I can think of is the masteries, and they aren't hated... so you don't make much sense. Sage FoW = 3m. 3m is hardly ever useful, maybe only in TW, but honestly, I'm hardly in situations where it'd actually help. Would be much more useful in general PK to be able to use it more often. And for TW, either you interrupt one person with a small chance of getting someone else too, or you get to use it more often on a single person... both are useful.

And lol @ accuracy. You use sandstorm to kill, not to lower accuracy. And either way, the amount of accuracy lowered is the same. I rather take extra damage over duration. And yes, 1200 is quite a lot. 300 in pvp, 400 with undine, 500 with amp, 600-1000 if you crit. Every extra bit helps when going for a hiero bypass, which is how you should be killing archers. If you can tick someone's hiero with one attack, a crit means it's a oneshot. Demon Sandstorm is perfect for that.


This Rhyme has to be some kind of troll, you can't seriously be that stupid and not realize how useful stuns are for wizards. If you're an idiot and don't do anything but shrinking around hitting people rather than caring about target control then there's not much worth saying.

sage hailstorm does double damage on frozen targets
whats better to one shot archers than a nice sage stone rain doing the damage of lvl 10 sandstorm in 1.6 seconds b:cute

CeliaZ - Sanctuary wrote: »

We are not saying extra damage on gush is fantastic, we are saying that the sage version of gush is soo useless, the damage is better then nothing.

thanks Celia for clearing that up
b:cute

Xulin - Harshlands

Demon for open PVP
Faster channeling
More control skills

Sage for TW
More chi
Slightly higher damage until +10 or above weapon for sage masteries to actually be noticable

MD - Harshlands

Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »

Honestly i cant see one reason why to go demon. And please no noob answers like Hell Stone Barrier. Heaven Stone barrier gives a 120% pdef increase. And you will NEVER, i repeat NEVER get hell stone barrier unless you want to farm for 1 year, pay 100m+, or are really really really lucky. Another thing that is kind of good is Hell Stone Rain. It would give Wizards a nice stun. But, go demon just to stun? Though it may seem that demon is better, the skills to make demon better then sage are almost impossible to get. I was informed that there is only 1 hell stone barrier between all servers. Is their any other obtainable benefits to going demon?

If you arent rich, dont even keep on playing Mage because this class require "money". I dont care how you get your moeny, either CS or farm HH or buy cheap then sell expensive.

Sage mage:
Use ultimate skills every other sec in TW and thats all you do because you always have chi(with chi pot=3.99spark all day). In pvp's view, you are just like a normal mage with higher dmg "if" you have heaven mastery, but most of mage will have +7 HH99 weapon at least.

Hell mage:
You can control their cata/BM easily "if" you have most of 92/99 skills, you cant really use ultimate as much compare to sage mage, but just farm herb and get chi pot(not a big deal), so you fix the problem lack of chi. In pvp's view, just try to save yourself and attack beacause once you die, you have big problem with chi if you dont use pot.(unless you camp in sz for like 3min or ask someone to embrace 1-2min);however, hell mage's skill does help a lot regardless 1v1 or group pvp.

If you dont even plan on getting lvl99...I dont see the point why you playing a mage...or yea sure, you want to become a good mage without having any 99 skills. "All the mage" will do decent damage on cata regardless you are hell or sage. Wish this post will help you a bit.

PS. You are already taking a side(Sage), so I dont really know whats point of making this thread tho tbh.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Xulin - Harshlands wrote: »

Demon for open PVP
Faster channeling
More control skills

Sage for TW
More chi
Slightly higher damage until +10 or above weapon for sage masteries to actually be noticable

last time i check, haiz doesnt have a +10 weapon and she can still one shot most people with crit o.o

MD - Harshlands

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

last time i check, haiz doesnt have a +10 weapon and she can still one shot most people with crit o.o

try +12 weapon sage and hell, the differences will show

well, mage with +12 weapon already hit hard, but sage will show their real dmg, probably only WB can taste it anyway

MD - Harshlands

Whats full int mage's magic atk with +12 HH99 with buff, 14k,15k or something else? Someone go use pwcal site to calculate for me.

15k's 5% is 750 "more magic atk" lol....Have fun with that dmg

BrownflameZ - Lost City

MD - Harshlands wrote: »

Someone go use pwcal site to calculate for me.

Why not do it yourself? Lazy bum b:laugh

MD - Harshlands

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

You left out all damage from having leveled skills?

fine fine...omg...i just want to point out higher refine, sage mage's atk will be higher

Kannone - Heavens Tear

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lets see
stone rain = 20% chance to stun or casting sandstorm in 1.6 seconds, hmmm i made my choice

pyrogram = 1.2 channel vs 30 +15 chi i think it was, mages are the most chi dependant class, chi plz

gush= ugh no one really wants to talk about this

spark = -25% channeling is nice but hey in pvp when you spark you are gonna get ganked (personal experience) the reduce damage is nice meh i will call this a tossup

ults = sage no questions
masteries = sage 1/4 of your damage added on vs 1% crit LOL
glacial snare and others of its type = it might be good for those moments when you dont have a chance to use undine or maybe in a sutra combo. Get creative people the debuffs can be handy

^ this.

My favorite part of the whole game is throwing Tempest down on a group of squishies and watching all the huge numbers (and with 11% crit rate, my ultis are sooo sexy b:dirty). So, ima go sage; because I don't expect that I'll be able to get to lv 99 or 100 any time soon, and because I don't expect to find enough time to farm fb99 for special skill books (1/120 chance at getting a useful one), and because I don't really want to spend my entire college life in HH... blah "twilight temple" <- hate that name.

Just seems like sage is more entertainment for my playing style, which is all it really gets down to right? What suits you best?


p.s. sage DB is among the godliest TW skills both for defense & when you're camping in their base.

BrownflameZ - Lost City

Kannone - Heavens Tear wrote: »

^ this.

My favorite part of the whole game is throwing Tempest down on a group of squishies and watching all the huge numbers (and with 11% crit rate, my ultis are sooo sexy b:dirty). So, ima go sage; because I don't expect that I'll be able to get to lv 99 or 100 any time soon, and because I don't expect to find enough time to farm fb99 for special skill books (1/120 chance at getting a useful one), and because I don't really want to spend my entire college life in HH... blah "twilight temple" <- hate that name.

Just seems like sage is more entertainment for my playing style, which is all it really gets down to right? What suits you best?


p.s. sage DB is among the godliest TW skills both for defense & when you're camping in their base.

You wanna see godly?
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9371acc1285d788d THATS GODLY

I was bored b:pleased

Biggymad - Lost City

mizorie - Lost City wrote: »

why Go Sage?

Why So Srs?!

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

BrownflameZ - Lost City wrote: »

You wanna see godly?
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9371acc1285d788d THATS GODLY

I was bored b:pleased

anyone who has the fight that person
b:byebai bai

*cough*cash shop player *cough*

sorry i had something in my throat

FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver

BrownflameZ - Lost City wrote: »

You wanna see godly?
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9371acc1285d788d THATS GODLY

I was bored b:pleased

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9371acc1285d788d <<<<MUCH MORE GODLY b:chuckle

ps: i just switch the weapon b:laugh



edit:dam i forgot save but i put the butterfly(warsoul glaive) instead of nature in weap slot

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9371acc1285d788d <<<<MUCH MORE GODLY b:chuckle

ps: i just switch the weapon b:laugh

You didnt do anything. And Nature Talker is the best possible weapon a mage can have. So I dont think that if the link would work, your wizard would be so much better then the first one.

Ty - Heavens Tear

BrownflameZ - Lost City wrote: »

You wanna see godly?
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9371acc1285d788d THATS GODLY

I was bored b:pleased

Id' wear the archangels ornaments in this case for the extra +3% crit considering you splashed so many drakenflame stones around :P

woyaa

CeliaZ - Sanctuary wrote: »

You didnt do anything. And Nature Talker is the best possible weapon a mage can have. So I dont think that if the link would work, your wizard would be so much better then the first one.

Nature Talker is not lol.
WarSoul is easily the best weapon available to a Mage, and and you can actually get that one!

Hidden - Lost City

so many arguements qq

masterys from what i seen are % dmg bonuses on final dmg. at least thats how it worked out when i tested it with ulti's. what that means is sage gets 5% more final dmg to every attack, so that extra '750' is reduced in pvp like everything else. now compare to hell sandstorm and 1200 > 750.

what it also means is it has an insanely greater effect with triple spark or attack bonus's like in gv. 5% more dmg while in triple spark is far superior to any hell attack bonus around.

---

hell emberstorm. useless? hell no. sure u wont use it against ranged classes but up against a bm/barb, use it and distance shrink away. a mage is supposed to kite, this thing gives us a 50% chance to kite away everytime someone gets close, its priceless.

---

heaven BIDS - priceless. had i known about it i would have gone heaven for sure. Its an easily obtainable skill assuming ur lvl 99+.

---

people always say sage is an endgame class. i have to disagree. sage get their best skills at 99, when they hit 99. hell wont ever have their best skills at 99 since their so rare. even our 100+ hell mages wont even have 1/4 of their pvp skills yet. but once the server catches up, once ppl doing their lvl 100 dailys each day and skilsl dropping like rain, once ppl doing gv so much they got book pages overflowing their bank, THEN i think people will see the potential of hell.

FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver

Hidden - Lost City wrote: »

so many arguements qq

masterys from what i seen are % dmg bonuses on final dmg. at least thats how it worked out when i tested it with ulti's. what that means is sage gets 5% more final dmg to every attack, so that extra '750' is reduced in pvp like everything else. now compare to hell sandstorm and 1200 > 750.

WRONG.

lets claculate

lets say ur skill does 10000dmg
target have 50% mag res
=5000end dmg
pvp reducion 25%
=1250

now wiht +1200
11200
-50%
=5600
25%
=1400

now wiht +5%(b4 the mag res)
10000+[(10000x5)/100]=10500
-50%
=5250
25%
=1312

5%(after mag res reducion)
10000
-50%
=5000+[(5x5000)/100]=5250
25%
=1312<<<omg is the same b:shocked

-.-

now lets face it +5% of dmg is always +5% no matter if is b4 teh dmg reducion or is after it

and add dmg like +1200 is ALWAYS add b4 mag res wich make it small

i test wiht 10000end SS dmg but wiht a good refine weapon belive me it goes much more up

anyways the -dmg reducion gear like +2% less physical harms are added after dmg reducion wich make it smaller, like if u have 50% pdef reducion +2% less pdef hits means in fact -1%dmg of physical

i hope u understand b:thanks


edit:get a warsoul weapon is easyer than get lv150 in x1 rate servers -_-

FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver

CeliaZ - Sanctuary wrote: »

You didnt do anything. And Nature Talker is the best possible weapon a mage can have. So I dont think that if the link would work, your wizard would be so much better then the first one.

lol...u are lv8x dam and u tell this bull****

does nature have +50atk lv...i dont think so even if it had warsould still got more mag especially warsoul


dam my eyes are burning from what i see in foruns nowdays b:shocked

ps:sry for 2 post but i had a little tecnic problem

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol...u are lv8x dam and u tell this bull****

does nature have +50atk lv...i dont think so even if it had warsould still got more mag especially warsoul


dam my eyes are burning from what i see in foruns nowdays b:shocked

ps:sry for 2 post but i had a little tecnic problem

You didnt edited the link, I didnt see warsoul. And yes its better, im sorry, but I dont think of a weapon thats needs 50 years of farming as realistic. Of course its better, but I dont even think about it.

FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver

CeliaZ - Sanctuary wrote: »

You didnt edited the link, I didnt see warsoul. And yes its better, im sorry, but I dont think of a weapon thats needs 50 years of farming as realistic. Of course its better, but I dont even think about it.

do u think lv150 is realistic in perfect world international?

i see u telling warsoul is impossibel to farm but i dont see u tell get to that lv is....

Damaged - Lost City

Anyone give a **** about warsoul weps? GTFO