So now that Jolly is gone...
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david12345 wrote: »Getting rid of the 1m box may not fix the issue completely (its already done quite a bit of damage), but it sure as hell will stop most gold sellers stuck to their 200k yellow gold prices.
You have it wrong, the problem is not the gold sellers stuck at 200k, the problem is the gold buyers willing to pay that much....
The gold prices are controlled by the buyers, not the sellers.... I could list Sell orders for gold at 1million, that would not mean anyone would buy. If I were to list Buy order at 1million, I am sure people would sell to me in a second. The buyer controls the prices, not the seller...Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
david12345 wrote: »The funny thing is that a new sale will come up and keep the already inflated gold prices (due to 1m boxes) high. Actually this has already happened, with the mount sale.
Getting rid of the 1m box may not fix the issue completely (its already done quite a bit of damage), but it sure as hell will stop most gold sellers stuck to their 200k yellow gold prices.
Also your post didn't answer my question in my OP.
Is it only me who thinks that the 1mil boxes will help cap the gold prices, you do so much work in game (As in play the cube of fate) to pay 5gold for 1mil.
I have no idea why but that make no sense.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »You have it wrong, the problem is not the gold sellers stuck at 200k, the problem is the gold buyers willing to pay that much....
Picture yourself as a gold seller. You almost certianly have a high lvl char, deep pockets and good gear.
Now, its highly likely that you do RB and Cube, and get cashboxes.
You have just bought 5 gold, and you really want to make some coin. Tell me what you do with it... sell it with the help of AH, therby not only A) getting taxed but
having to worry about other gold sellers, and the time it takes
-or-
Buy a perfect hammer, using your 5 gold, straight from the cashshop, and open a 1m box... which your loaded char got from cube/RB with ease, along with nice XP bonus and chips.
Obviously, unless your a ****, you'd go for option B. In a perfect world, most gold sellers would like to help the playerbase, and go for option A... unfortunetly irl most are greedy **** who just want coin and will reach that goal with minimum fuss.
Of course the gold sellers are stuck to 200k... if they sell for any less they acknowledge that they make a huge loss from the set price made by the 1m box. And this is their real money we are talking about.Jonnykins - Dreamweaver wrote: »Is it only me who thinks that the 1mil boxes will help cap the gold prices, you do so much work in game (As in play the cube of fate) to pay 5gold for 1mil.
I have no idea why but that make no sense.
Cap the prices at 200k? Before this the prices were 106kish. It never went above 125k.
You also get a shed load of XP, maybe chips. To me thats more then enough to do cube, 1m reward or not.eatwithspoons wrote: »There has been, but I cannot give details
Thanks, maybe one can hope that there is a slim chance that it will be removed.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Auction house has a 24 hours listing time. If you cancel your listing, you loose your listing fee. Unless gold prices take a HUGE nose dive, it is not worth to remove your listing until it expires, besides you can always try to catch the player that wants gold now and has so much coin that they do not care if they are paying a few extra thousand for the gold.
I do understand how the fees limit your flexibility to adjust your offers. That only pushes strategic behavior one step back. Do I think there will be a big new sale after an upcoming maintenance? I put a few gold in the market at a price significantly above the current trading level and hope that a post-sale surge exhausts all the low price gold (gotta love those must-have early adopters). Do I think that as Jolly Jones comes to a much advertised halt the demand for gold will dry up? Any gold I had to sell, I had in and out of the market long before that end-game scenario knocks the value down. And, maybe I put in a few buy orders at lower prices than current trades hoping to catch some cheap gold from someone who is inpatient and needs to sell right away. My point is that it is fairly easy to predict that gold trading's short run behavior would be a dip as maintenance neared and then a surge as buyers and sellers react to the new value of gold (lower prices in cash shop = each gold buys more = higher coin value for gold).
Actually, my real point was that spoons must have been making an off-the-cuff statement and not reflecting the corporate strategy since PWE has to know that the gold market is the single biggest indicator of the value of a cash shop sale. They knew the sale would delay a return to any more normal levels. The time it takes to get back to normal is only a function of their own choices about cash shop pricing."?" IS my avatar.0 -
without the bloody boxes gold would have dropped to 100-120k by now as after ever event and would grow slowly
the box RAISES the value and thus the price of gold and in now way pegs it at 200k, its a minimum value NOT A MAX VALUE so its really **** when they claim they are trying to lower gold prices0 -
On a side note... the perfect example of gold seller's frugality is being shown right now on sanc.
Someone is trying to buy gold at 175k in green. It has been up there for an hour, perphaps more.
And someone has just put nearly 200 gold on 199,900.0 -
AndromedaB - Sanctuary wrote: »without the bloody boxes gold would have dropped to 100-120k by now as after ever event and would grow slowly
the box RAISES the value and thus the price of gold and in now way pegs it at 200k, its a minimum value NOT A MAX VALUE so its really **** when they claim they are trying to lower gold prices
Gold at 100k... you mean like it was 3 months ago, right <sarcastic tone>? Honestly, when was the last time you saw gold at 100k? when the game first came out?Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
david12345 wrote: »
Cap the prices at 200k? Before this the prices were 106kish. It never went above 125k.
You also get a shed load of XP, maybe chips. To me thats more then enough to do cube, 1m reward or not.
I still don't get why a gold seller, would go 'YEY imma spend XXX amount to get a chance I might get 20% exp and chips with the chance to get 200k per 1gold'
I still don't see why that will keep gold at 200k, I'd say it will drop on most servers 150k per gold or even less.0 -
Jonnykins - Dreamweaver wrote: »I still don't get why a gold seller, would go 'YEY imma spend XXX amount to get a chance I might get 20% exp and chips with the chance to get 200k per 1gold'
I still don't see why that will keep gold at 200k, I'd say it will drop on most servers 150k per gold or even less.
My guess it will be 200k - (average sell price of boxes) - AH fess + Opportunity costs.
Assuming there are no special sales that would make the value of gold to sky rocket, like making 30 silver worth 100k+Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Jonnykins - Dreamweaver wrote: »I still don't get why a gold seller, would go 'YEY imma spend XXX amount to get a chance I might get 20% exp and chips with the chance to get 200k per 1gold'
I still don't see why that will keep gold at 200k, I'd say it will drop on most servers 150k per gold or even less.
Its not a chance, its guranteed. Not only that but they can recieve 3 cashboxes if they really want to. For a high lvl char, most of the cube can be a joke. I was actually making a profit from cube even before the 1m boxes were introduced.
You are also missing out RB here, that gives quite a few cashboxes too - and once again with a good team you can stack them.
As for gold prices dropping to 150k, that may be so... in the green. In the yellow? I really don't see it happening.0 -
david12345 wrote: »Its not a chance, its guranteed. Not only that but they can recieve 3 cashboxes if they really want to. For a high lvl char, most of the cube can be a joke. I was actually making a profit from cube even before the 1m boxes were introduced.
You are also missing out RB here, that gives quite a few cashboxes too - and once again with a good team you can stack them.
As for gold prices dropping to 150k, that may be so... in the green. In the yellow? I really don't see it happening.
If this is the case, how come gold is not at 200k+ in all the servers?
This all post is about people complaining that the gold price did not drop to low levels hours after servers came back up and JJ event was over... however, gold has not reached 200k in all servers.... and it has been 2 weeks since demand went up....
Gold prices tend to rocket up, and drift down, not the other way around...Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »If this is the case, how come gold is not at 200k+ in all the servers?
People complained that the gold price did not drop to low levels hours after servers came back up... however, gold has not reached 200k in all servers.... and it has been 2 weeks now...
Gold prices tend to rocket up, and drift down, not the other way around...
Because not all gold sellers have cashboxes. Or some are idiots. Perphaps both. Maybe some gold sellers actually give a damn about the playerbase and would rather inject gold at a lower price into the economy rather then burning it on hammers.
Gold has reached 200k and above in the yellow section (highest I've seen was 215k).
Ofcourse the prices will never quite reach 200k in the green section (unless you're on one of the new servers, even then I'm not sure) because, well simply the majority of the playerbase refuse to trade 1 gold for 200k coin, and rightly so.0 -
david12345 wrote: »Because not all gold sellers have cashboxes. Or some are idiots. Perphaps both. Maybe some gold sellers actually give a damn about the playerbase and would rather inject gold at a lower price into the economy rather then burning it on hammers.
Gold has reached 200k and above in the yellow section (highest I've seen was 215k).
Ofcourse the prices will never quite reach 200k in the green section (unless you're on one of the new servers, even then I'm not sure) because, well simply the majority of the playerbase refuse to trade 1 gold for 200k coin, and rightly so.
Or maybe it is because your assumptions are incorrect? Two weeks is a very long time for gold to stay at sub 200k when demand is at a all time high and those boxes being out.
Setting sell orders has almost no impact on gold, the impact is set by the buy orders. If people set buy orders at 600k, I can tell you that all gold will skyrocket on that server. If people set sell orders for 600k, there will be no impact on the server, except for a nice photo op.
I present you evidence A
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=378051
I am sure gold is not selling at 900k on that seller....Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
This is very very funny, because you hit it right on the head while trying to be sarcastic and condescending.IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Gold at 100k... you mean like it was 3 months ago, right <sarcastic tone>? Honestly, when was the last time you saw gold at 100k? when the game first came out?
Gold was, indeed, 100k on Sanctuary 3 months ago, for quite a long time actually. In fact, it frequently dipped to 95k.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
Prices aren't going to just plummet overnight - people are too greedy to let that happen. Gold prices will hopefully steadily decline over the coming weeks, as more and more refuse to pay the prices demanded - it's the simple principle of supply and demand. Once demand goes down, so will the price.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
tempest-dw.shivtr.com0 -
WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »This is very very funny, because you hit it right on the head while trying to be sarcastic and condescending.
Gold was, indeed, 100k on Sanctuary 3 months ago, for quite a long time actually. In fact, it frequently dipped to 95k.
It has not been sub 120k in our server since herc/phoenix came out.
Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Or maybe it is because your assumptions are incorrect? Two weeks is a very long time for gold to stay at sub 200k when demand is at a all time high and those boxes being out.
Setting sell orders has almost no impact on gold, the impact is set by the buy orders. If people set buy orders at 600k, I can tell you that all gold will skyrocket on that server. If people set sell orders for 600k, there will be no impact on the server, except for a nice photo op.
I'm not quite sure wether my assumptions have anything to do with this; fact remains that most of the gold sellers are very unwilling to sell their gold below 190-200k. I don't have access to Heaven's Tear AH, however if its anything like sanc, then it would tell this story.0 -
david12345 wrote: »I'm not quite sure wether my assumptions have anything to do with this; fact remains that most of the gold sellers are very unwilling to sell thier gold below 190-200k. I don't have access to Heaven's Tear AH, however if its anything like sanc, then it would tell this story.
Buy orders on HT have ranged between 170-180k, and that gold has moved.
Sell order on HT have ranged between 180-190. Those have not moved as fast.
That measn, gold sellers ARE selling directly to buy orders.
What does that really mean to you? Probably nothing, since we are in different servers.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
True, Heaven's Tear does have higher prices. I don't know why Sanctuary has the most active/lowest-priced economy of all the servers I've seen so far, but I guess it just does.IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »It has not been sub 120k in our server since herc/phoenix came out.
Anyway, AndromedaB is from Sanctuary, hence her estimate of 100-120k.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Buy orders on HT have ranged between 170-180k, and that gold has moved.
Sell order on HT have ranged between 180-190. Those have not moved as fast.
That measn, gold sellers ARE selling directly to buy orders.
I never said they didn't. I said the majority of the gold sellers would opt for hammers or an equal sell order (in this case 200kish, maybe slightly less now). Which they do... at least on sanc.
On sanc the sell orders have moved all over the place. Buy orders have been at 152k for many hours, however no one is fulfilling them.0 -
david12345 wrote: »I never said they didn't. I said the majority (as in most) of the gold sellers would opt for hammers or an equal sell order (in this case 200kish, maybe slightly less now). Which they do... at least on sanc.
On sanc the sell orders have moved all over the place. Buy orders have been at 152k for many hours, however no one is fulfilling them.
Using hammers would only make sense for the gold sellers if gold is at 200k-(costs) or less. Once it goes over that 200k-(cost) it would make no sense to use hammers. The million dollar question is what is that cost varieble....Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
AndromedaB - Sanctuary wrote: »without the bloody boxes gold would have dropped to 100-120k by now as after ever event and would grow slowly
the box RAISES the value and thus the price of gold and in now way pegs it at 200k, its a minimum value NOT A MAX VALUE so its really **** when they claim they are trying to lower gold prices
Coin chests created a maximum price on gold, not a minimum. If anything, those chests are quite possibly the reason you didn't see 300k+ gold during Jolly as prices could have gone to 338k before 100k packs became a better option.0 -
Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »Coin chests created a maximum price on gold, not a minimum. If anything, those chests are quite possibly the reason you didn't see 300k+ gold during Jolly as prices could have gone to 338k before 100k packs became a better option.
How so? It is uneconomical to sell gold for less than 200k while coin boxes can be farmed. However, if the demand for GAs kept rising such that gold went above 200k, zen chargers would sell gold in AH as it provides more coin to them for the same gold.0 -
...and yet, it didn't go much above 200k did it?
Coin boxes can be farmed, but not every zen buyer is farming them. They have to purchase them from other players so that doesn't make it uneconomical.0 -
How so? It is uneconomical to sell gold for less than 200k while coin boxes can be farmed.
Because there is a cost associated with getting those boxes.
The relative value is 200k - (costs associated with getting and opening the boxes).
If you are buying gold with in-game coins (the only thing that causes prices of gold to go up), you will not be buying any gold to open boxes if the cost of buying gold+commision+cost of getting box will be more than 1million, right?
That means that the price per unit of gold will have to lower than 200k in order to be worth it to buy gold to get hammers to open the boxes. If you were paying 200k you would be loosing money, since there is a 2.5% commission fee on purchases. (that is assuming you would have no other expenses).
The buyers actualy control the market, not the sellers, and there is a limited number of boxes in the game, so if you want lots of coins fast, it is not like you can just go out and get boxes for free to open them.. you will have to go out and buy boxes at 200-400k each, which means, it would be the equivalent of selling the gold at 120k-160k, therefore, it would not be a bad decision to sell your gold at 165k, if there are buy orders for that amount.
The crux of the issue is that there are costs associated with getting the boxes, and there is only a limited amount of boxes available, specialy the "free" ones with 1-3 for the cube per day, assuming you get to complete it, and it costs you coins to run it. Rebirths will net you a few more boxes, but that includes getting a party together, and it still takes 2-3 hours per run, limiting how many "free" ones you can get. With rebirth you will have costs associated with it as well.
Unfortunatly, this only takes into account one item in the economy. Which is a oversimplification of the issue at hand, since other items can, and will cause gold prices to move up or down.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »...and yet, it didn't go much above 200k did it?
Coin boxes can be farmed, but not every zen buyer is farming them. They have to purchase them from other players so that doesn't make it uneconomical.
Has gold been this high before? Ever?0 -
Has gold been this high before? Ever?
In some servers it has been this high. In others it has gone this high and down a little,while in other servers this is a new thing.
The market behaves differently in all the servers, so it is hard to say.
For example, 3 months ago, in sanc gold sold for 100k. In HT, gold has not sold for 100k since the game first come out, about a year ago.
Also in some of the new servers, gold has had a wild ride, being all over the map, and sometimes much higher than 200k (for a bit it was over 300k even), and that was before the JJ event and the boxes when they had gold prices over 200k already.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Sure, its ~196k per gold to break even, just rounding up.IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Because there is a cost associated with getting those boxes.
The relative value is 200k - (costs associated with getting and opening the boxes).
If you are buying gold with in-game coins (the only thing that causes prices of gold to go up), you will not be buying any gold to open boxes if the cost of buying gold+commision+cost of getting box will be more than 1million, right?
That means that the price per unit of gold will have to lower than 200k in order to be worth it to buy gold to get hammers to open the boxes, right? If you were paying 200k you would be loosing money, since there is a 2.5% commission fee on purchases. (that is assuming you would have no other expenses).
Its not difficult to pace yourself to match the number of boxes you gain from CoF and RB, which can be 6 a day from 1 of each (i think). Really, who would spend more than $5 per day on this game to open the CoF box? And an additional 1m a day would be considered fast coinage by most.IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »The buyers actualy control the market, not the sellers, and there is a limited number of boxes in the game, so if you want lots of coins fast, it is not like you can just go out and get boxes for free to open them.. you will have to go out and buy boxes at 200-400k each, which means, it would be the equivalent of selling the gold at 120k-160k, therefore, it would not be a bad decision to sell your gold at 165k, if there are buy orders for that amount.
The crux of the issue is that there are costs associated with getting the boxes, and there is only a limited amount of boxes available, specialy the "free" ones with 1-3 for the cube per day, assuming you get to complete it, and it costs you coins to run it. Rebirths will net you a few more boxes, but that includes getting a party together, and it still takes 2-3 hours per run, limiting how many "free" ones you can get. With rebirth you will have costs associated with it as well.
It is not difficult to profit from CoF by selling the lucky boxes outside or selling molds made from chips. It is rare that I make a loss on CoF with mirages as cheap as they are. Similarly, there are significant rewards to be had in RB, and the coin boxes make it more attractive, prompting more runs.0 -
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Sure, its ~196k per gold to break even, just rounding up.
Its not difficult to pace yourself to match the number of boxes you gain from CoF and RB, which can be 6 a day from 1 of each (i think). Really, who would spend more than $5 per day on this game to open the CoF box? And an additional 1m a day would be considered fast coinage by most.
It is not difficult to profit from CoF by selling the lucky boxes outside or selling moulds made from chips. It is rare that I make a loss on CoF with mirages as cheap as they are. Similarly, there are significant rewards to be had in RB, and the coin boxes make it more attractive, prompting more runs.
But if you are pacing yourself, you are not a heavy gold buyer/seller... using your numbers, you only need to buy/use 35 gold a day. Some of the heavy gold dealers will go through 190-300 or more units of gold a day.
What you stated is correct, and extra 1million would be fast coins, but what are the costs? You need to figure those out before you can say "fast money". The fast money may be to sell the boxes at 100k each, depending on the costs, at which point, the fast money is not 1million but 100k.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0
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