YES Spider King is a LOW LEVEL quest FIRST

Maiya - Lost City

Kimyrielle - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The point of all MMORPGs or any game for that matter is to provide the players with a satisfying experience. Name me one, just _one_ person in the entire galaxy who is considering standing in a line to be a satisfying or fun or challenging experience.

I rest my case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QVb6lhmNKQ

BratFury - Heavens Tear

Kimyrielle - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The point of all MMORPGs or any game for that matter is to provide the players with a satisfying experience. Name me one, just _one_ person in the entire galaxy who is considering standing in a line to be a satisfying or fun or challenging experience.

I rest my case.

this^^this^^

Byno - Sanctuary

Kimyrielle - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The point of all MMORPGs or any game for that matter is to provide the players with a satisfying experience. Name me one, just _one_ person in the entire galaxy who is considering standing in a line to be a satisfying or fun or challenging experience.

I rest my case.

Waiting in line is a player created method of semi-organization. Would you rather have a line, or have someone sit and ks the mob for three hours straight? The oracle sale is sketchy, sure, but it could be worse.

I don't really know why people stand in line in the first place. If someone's killin it, just go grind or do something else. More exp and loot ftw.

tweakz

Take names, take screenshots, send support ticket:

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Viper_girl - Heavens Tear

Kimyrielle - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The point of all MMORPGs or any game for that matter is to provide the players with a satisfying experience. Name me one, just _one_ person in the entire galaxy who is considering standing in a line to be a satisfying or fun or challenging experience.
I rest my case.

Well I guess Maiya's link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QVb6lhmNKQ
just smashed your "case". b:victory b:chuckle

As Byno pointed out it is a player organized thing, which is gratifying as it shows we still have a sense of "civilization"
even in a virtual world where killing is the norm.

How you look at it is all in the mind. WQ takes much longer and gives less XP. People hang around in W Arch for hours doing nothing other than chatting. ... You can chat while in line, and often you can go AFK and have someone hold your place in the line. And of course if you don't want to wait, come back later when it isn't so busy. It has been pointed out many times that both DQ and Oracles are optional quests.

Kimyrielle - Heavens Tear

Byno - Sanctuary wrote: »

Waiting in line is a player created method of semi-organization. Would you rather have a line, or have someone sit and ks the mob for three hours straight? The oracle sale is sketchy, sure, but it could be worse.

You must have missed my first post. My point was that good MMO game design doesn't make people wait in a line, ever. Which is why all rare spawns (=bosses) belong into instances. Queuing up is the civilized people's way of dealing with crappy game design, nothing more, nothing less. And even that only halfway works when all people act civilized, which is not the case, as can be shown by the existence of threads like this one.

@Viper_girl: The WQ is another prime example of bad game design.
Also, the distinction between "optional" and "not-optional", while often used by people in debates like this one, is moot in the end. The entire game is "optional" to play. If I don't consider it fun, I'd do something else. Which brings me back to my main point that all game mechanics need to be developed with having player experience in mind. If anything in a game is violating the "Does it add to people's fun?" test, it needs to be changed or taken out. Adding a "go waste your time by standing in a line" (or "go waste your time and fly twice around the map" in case of the WQ) type of quest to an RPG is much like intentionally adding a boring chapter to a novel. No sane writer would ever do such a thing, so why are we seeing that kind of stuff in a game?

Viper_girl - Heavens Tear

Kimyrielle - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You must have missed my first post. My point was that good MMO game design doesn't make people wait in a line, ever. Which is why all rare spawns (=bosses) belong into instances.

The entire game is "optional" to play. If I don't consider it fun, I'd do something else. Which brings me back to my main point that all game mechanics need to be developed with having player experience in mind.

If anything in a game is violating the "Does it add to people's fun?" test, it needs to be changed or taken out. Adding a "go waste your time by standing in a line" (or "go waste your time and fly twice around the map" in case of the WQ) type of quest to an RPG is much like intentionally adding a boring chapter to a novel.

Although I agree with your points about making the game more fun to play, I have to disagree with the instanced idea. The reason for me is that I dislike instances, and that makes it less fun for me. One of the appeals of PWI is that it is one seamless map except for the few FB and TT instances. Gone are the endless zonings that were so prevalent in other MMOs.

PWI does get very grindy and repetitive. The real problem comes from the fact that new content and experiences only come at higher and higher levels. So the "need" to level up is high while the "difficulty" in gaining levels grows exponentially.

The trouble is PWI's idea of making things more difficult is to dramatically increase the number of the same mob you have to kill to gain a certain percentage XP. That is definitely poor game design. It may work for certain audiences, but for working busy people, it gets a bit much. That is the main reason the Oracles are so popular and compared to the grinding the wait is "fun".

The real question is can and will they fix it? I think the answer is unlikely since the game is 4 years old and the fundamental structure of the game hasn't changed. The game was designed for a different country, China where perhaps the population has fewer choices and outside distractions that we in the Western world have. There PW is probably cheap entertainment and the players are willing to grind and wait endlessly. For now PWI is probably still one of the better MMOs but there is competition on the horizon.

pdeath

Yes, I have spent money on power boosts and clothing. When the programmers and owners of this game decide gameplay is secondary or less and online shopping is their priority, It's time to go spend my cash elsewhere. Much of this game is fun, but I can see the direction the owners are going, and I do not wish to be here for it.
Next they will put in a system where low lvl players are forced to stand for days and watch high lvls or heavy paying customers one hit 1 mil xp mobs to their hearts content.

Not me thanks I can go to other games and spend money there and mayhap even be appreciated for playing and paying.

now go ahead and flame away

BratFury - Heavens Tear

Kimyrielle - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You must have missed my first post. My point was that good MMO game design doesn't make people wait in a line, ever. Which is why all rare spawns (=bosses) belong into instances. Queuing up is the civilized people's way of dealing with crappy game design, nothing more, nothing less. And even that only halfway works when all people act civilized, which is not the case, as can be shown by the existence of threads like this one.

@Viper_girl: The WQ is another prime example of bad game design.
Also, the distinction between "optional" and "not-optional", while often used by people in debates like this one, is moot in the end. The entire game is "optional" to play. If I don't consider it fun, I'd do something else. Which brings me back to my main point that all game mechanics need to be developed with having player experience in mind. If anything in a game is violating the "Does it add to people's fun?" test, it needs to be changed or taken out. Adding a "go waste your time by standing in a line" (or "go waste your time and fly twice around the map" in case of the WQ) type of quest to an RPG is much like intentionally adding a boring chapter to a novel. No sane writer would ever do such a thing, so why are we seeing that kind of stuff in a game?

^^And This ^^ I also agree with the post above me

Mothergoose - Sanctuary

WQ induces people to buy faster flying mounts. Oracles induce people to buy more angels for Jolly. $$$b:chuckle

Alphae - Lost City

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

^^And This ^^ I also agree with the post above me

For heaven's sake, if you don't have anything to contribute, boosting your post count with "I agree" is poor etiquette.

The problem is not with the Oracles, IMO, or with the lines. The problem is the rewarding of them in larger numbers.

Oracles I don't believe were ever to be used to level heavily, ESPECIALLY as some people do when Jolly Jones appears, i.e. 40-70 just on oracles O_o

They were meant to be a nice, rare extra reward from grinding for exp--you grind and there is small chance to receive basically a free quest to go get some easy rewards that breaks the monotony of grinding.

The rewarding of Oracles in larger numbers is something that any player with lots of $$, either in-game or out-of-game, can cash in on to level very quickly and effectively. This passing out of Oracles in huge numbers is what is causing an issue. It should not be blamed on the people taking advantage of it, nor on the people creating the line. It's simply a poorly thought-out reward system. Especially when exp scrolls were also rewards from Jolly Jones--that's enough exp-based rewards. In a game where levels are first and foremost what makes you stronger, exp to get there should not be handed out so haphazardly.

BratFury - Heavens Tear

b:victoryb:victory

Alphae - Lost City wrote: »

For heaven's sake, if you don't have anything to contribute, boosting your post count with "I agree" is poor etiquette.


I could care less about my post count, I don't even know what it is, and can't look at the moment I'm writing this. Post count means nothing to me. If it bothers you that much I'll use an alt and start all over. I did have something to contribute there was no need to type out everything the person said ahead of me all over again. Of all the silly, insignificant things to gripe about, saying "I agree" is poor etiquette? If I had said I disagreed you would have said that was poor too. With some ppl you just can't win. I write too much, I write too little. Never satisfied someone always has to gripe.


The problem is not with the Oracles, IMO, or with the lines. The problem is the rewarding of them in larger numbers.
The problem is the event all together. It creates chaos every time they implement it. Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. And here we are.


Oracles I don't believe were ever to be used to level heavily, ESPECIALLY as some people do when Jolly Jones appears, i.e. 40-70 just on oracles O_o

They were meant to be a nice, rare extra reward from grinding for exp--you grind and there is small chance to receive basically a free quest to go get some easy rewards that breaks the monotony of grinding.

And this is what the OP (while not correct in the manner) was trying to point out. The spider king was first and foremost part of a quest that was on going for several players. What is happening should have never been the intent of the oracle. But again, here we are.

The rewarding of Oracles in larger numbers is something that any player with lots of $$, either in-game or out-of-game, can cash in on to level very quickly and effectively. This passing out of Oracles in huge numbers is what is causing an issue. It should not be blamed on the people taking advantage of it, nor on the people creating the line. It's simply a poorly thought-out reward system. Especially when exp scrolls were also rewards from Jolly Jones--that's enough exp-based rewards. In a game where levels are first and foremost what makes you stronger, exp to get there should not be handed out so haphazardly.
So to recap, you would agree that the oracle was not the best reward possible for jolly jones? In the meantime, even tho the price of shards went down, at least we didn't (or don't) have to wait in line to get them. Yes, poor planning on the devs part. However; at this point it is what it is, all the complaining in the world won't change that. And the OP stating that its a bit unfair is within his/her own rights.

Yourmom - Lost City

lolpveservers

Alphae - Lost City

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Of all the silly, insignificant things to gripe about, saying "I agree" is poor etiquette?

It's generally accepted forum etiquette that if you have nothing to contribute, then you should simply refrain from posting. Adding nothing to the discussion, well, adds nothing. If you were not aware of that convention, well, now you know.

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

However; at this point it is what it is, all the complaining in the world won't change that. And the OP stating that its a bit unfair is within his/her own rights.

You are indeed correct; the OP is well within his rights to state that it's unfair. I think that he might have received a better response if he hadn't been so whiny about it. I can state reasons why I think the Oracles are not the best rewards for Jolly Jones, my thinking behind those reasons, and I can do it without whining or refusing to see both sides of the story.

The chaos when they implement Jolly Jones is mostly associated with the fact that the items that come from the spring packs are worth far more than the normal coin translation of the angel that it costs to open. Therefore, there is a rush to make money off the event, and rightfully so. Why should you ask anyone not to take advantage of an opportunity? I don't even have a big problem with the fact that unlike normal gambling, the gambling in Jolly Jones is HIGHLY in favor of the gambler, instead of the house as it should be.

I simply believe that experience is such a precious commodity in this game that it should not be shelled out so haphazardly--this more than anything unbalances the game. I can make as much coin as I want, a billion coin! But unless I'm buying oracles, I can't buy my levels without a tiny bit of work on my part. Exp scrolls, rebirth, bounty hunter, even CS and WQ ask me to spend my time on the game and devote some effort to playing, even if it's to farm the money for the shards, or to fly around/farm the money for WQ teleports. I'm not saying that people shouldn't level by Oracles... I'm saying that it was a poor idea for the devs to allow such a thing to happen in the first place.

BratFury - Heavens Tear

b:shockedb:shocked

Alphae - Lost City wrote: »

It's generally accepted forum etiquette that if you have nothing to contribute, then you should simply refrain from posting. Adding nothing to the discussion, well, adds nothing. If you were not aware of that convention, well, now you know.

Sometimes more is less, thats all I will say about that.

You are indeed correct; the OP is well within his rights to state that it's unfair. I think that he might have received a better response if he hadn't been so whiny about it. I can state reasons why I think the Oracles are not the best rewards for Jolly Jones, my thinking behind those reasons, and I can do it without whining or refusing to see both sides of the story.
Of course. There is always a good way and a bad way to utilize communication. The OP obviously chose a bad way, therefore the responses were definitely not in the OP's favor. I also think that when the OP wrote this thread he/she was probably very frustrated with what is going on. I used to get upset at wraith events. I fixed that, I just quit going. Yes, I miss out on part of the game, but I don't get all upset and frustrated about it anymore. Problem solved. Not that its fair, but life isn't fair/



The chaos when they implement Jolly Jones is mostly associated with the fact that the items that come from the spring packs are worth far more than the normal coin translation of the angel that it costs to open. Therefore, there is a rush to make money off the event, and rightfully so. Why should you ask anyone not to take advantage of an opportunity? I don't even have a big problem with the fact that unlike normal gambling, the gambling in Jolly Jones is HIGHLY in favor of the gambler, instead of the house as it should be.

I simply believe that experience is such a precious commodity in this game that it should not be shelled out so haphazardly--this more than anything unbalances the game. I can make as much coin as I want, a billion coin! But unless I'm buying oracles, I can't buy my levels without a tiny bit of work on my part. Exp scrolls, rebirth, bounty hunter, even CS and WQ ask me to spend my time on the game and devote some effort to playing, even if it's to farm the money for the shards, or to fly around/farm the money for WQ teleports. I'm not saying that people shouldn't level by Oracles... I'm saying that it was a poor idea for the devs to allow such a thing to happen in the first place.