What Boutique Items does a class need?

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Limiting this discussion to non-PvP, non-TW purposes, I would like to know what Boutique items a class actually *needs* to progress in the game. I have only played an archer, so I do not know about the other classes.

Let's assume, for practicality purposes, that Twilight Temple is a necessary part of the game, whereas Frostlands, Lunar Glade, and Cube of Fate are not.

All classes need the Golden Hammer to get the Supply Stash awards. I guess one can argue that you do not need these items to progress through the game.

Do Clerics need MP charms? Or can they get by using potions and apothecary items?

Do Barbarians need HP charms?

Do all classes need the "Mystical Tome" (pages?) thingies in the Boutique? Or is that just extra stuff that is unnecessary?

I hear that, in the 90s, you obtain a quest that you must complete in Rebirth Order. Is it possible all classes complete that without HP / MP charms?

I have found that, socially speaking, it is almost necessary for Venomancers to have a Hercules in order to find squads to raid Twilight Temple. This is more of a social requirement, than a game requirement.

I am asking on the chance that I decide to play another class. This post is not meant to whine or complain about anything.

Baraya - Dreamweaver

Back in the old days, people always said that any class can play PW without spending anything on the cash shop. Maybe times have changed. I dunno, but I don't see anything new that is required of anyone.

Xerow - Dreamweaver

You never absolutely need anything from the boutique. As a cleric, having an MP charm is pretty much the best thing that can happen for me, but I rarely ever have one, because 1. they drain so fast, and 2. I can't afford them. And I can play just fine without one, everything just goes by a little slower since I have to stop to meditate when questing/grinding (I save MP pots for bosses/dungeons).

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

barbarians ALWAYS need HP charms if they want to be good cuz it happens often to aggro too many mobs or clerics die and u have to keep the dangers out of the team etc etc. and some bosses hit so hard that u waste a lot of charm...

and we waste soooo many charms in TW

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

those 'quests' you mention in delta are NOT necesary to progress in the game, theyre just for the old unicorn,desert tower, and valley maps. theyre just fancy wraith ploy extras :P.

Corennes - Sanctuary

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

those 'quests' you mention in delta are NOT necesary to progress in the game, theyre just for the old unicorn,desert tower, and valley maps. theyre just fancy wraith ploy extras :P.

Yes they are necessary. You need access to the past maps for the lvl 100 culti.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

and the chances of us getting 100 are at this rate? not going to happen. the only delta able barbs are in the evil egomaniac faction,, otherwise were gunna spend months in spiders.

Tojop - Dreamweaver

In order to kill many bosses in Twilight Temple, the cleric needs to have bb up for several minutes. This is not very easy to do without an mp charm.

The only other real option is the sesame from the jolly event, which is a better choice than a charm anyways, and mp pots from npcs.

Also a good idea for clerics to have an hp charm, just in case. But we burn through these a lot slower than mp charms. I'm on week two of my gold charm, still have 150k left.

Hazardus - Heavens Tear

Charms are not needed if you can always get a perfect party and everyone does their jobs right.
However, thats very rarely gonna happen. I cant recall the number of times Ive done TT with maybe only one cleric and in such times a charm is a very vital requirement. People **** up from time to time (even talented ones) and at those times the charms are life (and time) savers.

Everything goes so much more smoothly when a cleric has a MP charm and a barb has a his HP charm. These 2 classes need the charms more than anyone. And they run through them pretty fast too.

I personally use a MP charm too since until recently it was much cheaper than using MP pots (plus its a autopot b:chuckle).

Vinat - Sanctuary

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Limiting this discussion to non-PvP, non-TW purposes, I would like to know what Boutique items a class actually *needs* to progress in the game. I have only played an archer, so I do not know about the other classes.

Let's assume, for practicality purposes, that Twilight Temple is a necessary part of the game, whereas Frostlands, Lunar Glade, and Cube of Fate are not.

All classes need the Golden Hammer to get the Supply Stash awards. I guess one can argue that you do not need these items to progress through the game.

Do Clerics need MP charms? Or can they get by using potions and apothecary items?

Do Barbarians need HP charms?

Do all classes need the "Mystical Tome" (pages?) thingies in the Boutique? Or is that just extra stuff that is unnecessary?

I hear that, in the 90s, you obtain a quest that you must complete in Rebirth Order. Is it possible all classes complete that without HP / MP charms?

I have found that, socially speaking, it is almost necessary for Venomancers to have a Hercules in order to find squads to raid Twilight Temple. This is more of a social requirement, than a game requirement.

I am asking on the chance that I decide to play another class. This post is not meant to whine or complain about anything.

no we dont absolutely need any of that stuff, but as you said the hammers are a MUST for opening boxes and the tome pages are a must if you wanna make a tome. and i think its kinda unfair that there's no in-game way to generate them other than the cash shop. meaning if no one EVER bought gold there would be none in the auction and no one could ever get a hammer or make a tome. same with nix and herc. but again those things are not must-haves.

but like you said, socially on the game.. no one wants to party with a barb with no hp charm, or a cleric with no mp charm, or a veno with no herc. and ttomes or xmas blessings are kinda must haves for venos at the very least, especially if you have herc or nix.

nederlandse

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

no we dont absolutely need any of that stuff, but as you said the hammers are a MUST for opening boxes and the tome pages are a must if you wanna make a tome. and i think its kinda unfair that there's no in-game way to generate them other than the cash shop. meaning if no one EVER bought gold there would be none in the auction and no one could ever get a hammer or make a tome. same with nix and herc. but again those things are not must-haves.

but like you said, socially on the game.. no one wants to party with a barb with no hp charm, or a cleric with no mp charm, or a veno with no herc. and ttomes or xmas blessings are kinda must haves for venos at the very least, especially if you have herc or nix.

(refer to red text)
this is not true... all you have to do is prove that you are a competant cleric, and you'll have people calling on you INSTEAD of those other ones regardless of the fact that you dont have an mp charm but they do... i speak from experience btw

Aadi - Lost City

I'm a cleric that doesn't use an MP charm. Unless you are in a dungeon or helping with a boss you can make do by meditating, and with those you can use pots (I do). I've been fine without things such as that so far, and the boutique items I do have I know that I don't need (wings, mount, etc.).

Zoe - Heavens Tear

So far, from level 1 to 92, I have not NEEDED a single cash shop item at all ever. Sure I've gone through the equivelent of around $1000 or so of cash shop items but I haven't needed any of them just to play.

tweakz

MP recov items are so undervalued in this game. Casters go for the -channeling big time ignoring that it eats their MP big time. Apoth products like focus powder last 10m and are fairly cheap or easy to fab. When you equip a charm, you're stuck with it until you expire it so you're constantly struggling to avoid using it. Some Clerics over cast Iron Heart and stuff, while others are better at conserving and timing purify. Hercs are not needed for TT solo mode, or needed at all in squads. They simply give veno's more independence and take some of the load off of barbs.

Ninnuam - Sanctuary

Well, none of the cash shop items are needed per se, if all you care about is just playing for the sake of playing.
Then again, just about everything apart from clothing and mounts is needed to get just about anywhere.
We don't need charms, we don't need tomes, we don't need iron hammers, we don't need dragon orbs and socket stones, we don't need teles.

But then again, who's willing to take an uncharmed party to rebrith? Who's willing to take an uncharmed barb and cleric to a high level TT (nub pug parties aside)? Especially with non refined gear, meaning the cleric would get one shot by just about anything, and the risk of barb dying due to super low hp would be high enough to become an issue, especially if not charmed. Teles, the super cheap and probably the best sold item in game. Other than spamming, it's more than useful for getting a party together or getting something sold or whatnot.
Heck, even hercs, if you consider TT an integral part of the game, could be considered needed. While they're far from needed to actually finish any given TT run, a lot of barbs and clerics (admitedly myself included) prefer to take a herc veno to save on charm on repair costs, which are far higher than most other classes can only imagine.

So yeah, I guess you could say none of the items are actually needed. But they sure as heck make for a much more enjoyable and smoother playing experience, to the point where we've grown so accustomed to it, that they're actually considered to be a necessity by every high level player out there.

Edit: In response to nederlandse and Aadi.
It's a thing that comes with level. I didn't use charms until my 70s. However, there are TT bosses which for all intensive purposes, require the cleric to keep BB up for a prolonged period of time. If memory serves, the first npc pots which allow you to keep bb up indefinitely are level 80 (setting aside the fact they're more expensive than a gold charm). Sesame is an option, but its an event item and as such it wasn't always available. Apo powders have too long a cool down, and lower level pots aren't enough to keep up with the bb mana drain. And if the boss fight takes 10 minutes, and your bb drops halfway through it's a party wipe. Especially if the boss has a very strong mana drain (like ancient evil, but there are ways to kill it without bb, especially with genies).
With all that said though, the simple fact remains that gold charms are cheaper than npc pots any day of the week, event sesame being even cheaper.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

(like ancient evil, but there are ways to kill it without bb, especially with genies).

lol, i love using mass suicide tactics against AE, much cheaper to maintain, good barb can tank him without clerics :C

Aadi - Lost City

Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's a thing that comes with level. I didn't use charms until my 70s. However, there are TT bosses which for all intensive purposes, require the cleric to keep BB up for a prolonged period of time. If memory serves, the first npc pots which allow you to keep bb up indefinitely are level 80 (setting aside the fact they're more expensive than a gold charm). Sesame is an option, but its an event item and as such it wasn't always available. Apo powders have too long a cool down, and lower level pots aren't enough to keep up with the bb mana drain. And if the boss fight takes 10 minutes, and your bb drops halfway through it's a party wipe. Especially if the boss has a very strong mana drain (like ancient evil, but there are ways to kill it without bb, especially with genies).
With all that said though, the simple fact remains that gold charms are cheaper than npc pots any day of the week, event sesame being even cheaper.

True, I knew if I ever did higher level HHs I would probably have to have an MP charm. I just haven't had to YET.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

the only bosses i can think of that need BB in TT's higher ups is wurlord 2-3, possibly feng and cosmo, and one spot climbing up spiral stairs in 3-2/3-3, since like.. mobs can one shot ppls :C in the ones ive been to. surprisingly enough it seems like illusion lord and emperor are easier than AE

Ninnuam - Sanctuary

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

lol, i love using mass suicide tactics against AE, much cheaper to maintain, good barb can tank him without clerics :C

Lmao b:laugh
Still, I'd hate to be his charm haha. With enough chasers to go around, a single cleric ironhearting the barb more than gets the job done, providing you trust the party of course.

Edit:

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

the only bosses i can think of that need BB in TT's higher ups is wurlord 2-3, possibly feng and cosmo, and one spot climbing up spiral stairs in 3-2/3-3, since like.. mobs can one shot ppls :C in the ones ive been to.

Nah, I only seldom bb for those. Soon the light is enough for feng, plus it lets me dd. A good barb doesn't need bb for cosmo, especially if there's a veno to purge, and chaser/alacrity takes care of wurlord

Was referring to the early days where 1-3 drummer and soulbanisher were wtfbbq. Not high level for us, but to a 6x player.

P.S. Hit me up when you do 3-2 or 3-3 if you ever need a cleric, need em for last part of chrono :x

Frijolero - Sanctuary

Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »

So yeah, I guess you could say none of the items are actually needed. But they sure as heck make for a much more enjoyable and smoother playing experience, to the point where we've grown so accustomed to it, that they're actually considered to be a necessity by every high level player out there.

Nunnuam has just hit bullseye. It's not they're hardly needed to keep going on the game, but those items make some things on the game a lot easier that we become lazy and start gettin' used of those things.

blindv

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So far, from level 1 to 92, I have not NEEDED a single cash shop item at all ever. Sure I've gone through the equivelent of around $1000 or so of cash shop items but I haven't needed any of them just to play.

I agree that you don't NEED the cash items but... if you hadn't had access to that $1000 worth of CS items... what level would you be currently?

Taking out the CS items = slowing down your leveling speed alot.

Either snail thru, or pay up some cash... am I wrong in thinking this? Because it sure seems like it for me.

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

Ancient Evil can be killed by 1 archer o,.,o

takes hours

SeaWasp - Dreamweaver

Are boutique items absolutely needed? No.
Will some of them make your life much easier ingame? Yes.

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

SeaWasp - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Are boutique items absolutely needed? No.
Will some of them make your life much easier ingame? Yes.

Indeed. You can level by using npc equip and kill mobs 10 levels lower to you. You can become level 100 that way. Will take you years and years though, and it will not be fun. I think charms nowadays are indeed necessary to play it. You cant do TT without them--->you wont have good equips (same with dragon orbs)--->no one wants you in a fb or TT or rebirth--->grinding is the only thing you will do.

Baraya - Dreamweaver

blindv wrote: »

I agree that you don't NEED the cash items but... if you hadn't had access to that $1000 worth of CS items... what level would you be currently?

Taking out the CS items = slowing down your leveling speed alot.

Either snail thru, or pay up some cash... am I wrong in thinking this? Because it sure seems like it for me.

Why do you think there are so many Venos? We don't need to rest as often. However, there are some nice Apothecary items that can help quite well. They require some work, but it's nothing that would extend playing time by a lot.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

blindv wrote: »

I agree that you don't NEED the cash items but... if you hadn't had access to that $1000 worth of CS items... what level would you be currently?

Taking out the CS items = slowing down your leveling speed alot.

Either snail thru, or pay up some cash... am I wrong in thinking this? Because it sure seems like it for me.

Let's see. Without cash shop items I'd say I'd be.....level 89 or so by now. Not much difference in my case.

Remember, I'm the one that kills myself intentionally just so I won't level.

DarkSniper - Lost City

Level 66 archer this is all I've ever needed:

Cash shop wings (+3 wings are a godsend when you flying from tusk town to misfortunce city)

Haven't opened by supply box lvl 50, I was fine with just a lvl 55 crossbow that had +7 dex.

I have used a few HP and MP heiro's but they weren't neccessary.

Daerina - Heavens Tear

depends on your definition of "need"
anyone can play the game without any CS items if they want to however,
do venos need a hercules to be taken seriously enough to be asked into higher level quests? most of the time.
do clerics need MP charms to be asked into zhen squads and some higher level quests such as TT? pretty much.

I've seen a lot of WCs asking for "cleric with charm" or "veno with herc", though i've honestly never seen one asking for a tank with charm

so yes, you can play without boutique items, but in a lot of cases it's going to be tough.

Boutique items I wouldn't be level 73 without: some GAs and so far I've used 2 gold HP charms and I'm on my 3rd.... I've only just got a herc now and it isn't even close to being usable for quests at my level so I can't say it's contributed at all, but the higher level I get, the more I have noticed some attitude towards me when invited to dungeon squads and they find out I'm using a level 73 magmite.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

but like you said, socially on the game.. no one wants to party with a barb with no hp charm, or a cleric with no mp charm, or a veno with no herc. and ttomes or xmas blessings are kinda must haves for venos at the very least, especially if you have herc or nix.

tell them your using a load of jiaozi and sesame b:chuckle

Camerlengo - Dreamweaver

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »

barbarians ALWAYS need HP charms if they want to be good cuz it happens often to aggro too many mobs or clerics die and u have to keep the dangers out of the team etc etc. and some bosses hit so hard that u waste a lot of charm...

and we waste soooo many charms in TW

Poor you, your charm ticks twice- clerics and wizards have our charms tick DOZENS of times in that same time period.

And yes I know I'm many levels lower than you and a "carebear", and I really, REALLY don't care.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Nothing wrong with a veno using a magmite. I got by with mine just fine. I was still often the one doing the tanking in many things. There were no complaints about venos not having hercs at that point because they weren't in the game yet.

If a person doesn't want a veno without a herc, too bad for them. They don't know what that big hunk of rock known as a magmite is capable of.