Sage/Hell

Sabariel - Lost City

I looked at all the hell/heaven skills and I now have NO idea what I want anymore. >.> At first I was like hell all the way because that's what I heard was more popular but now I can say I'm actually leaning toward heaven.
QQ Help Saba b:surrender

So...please answer these two questions
1. Heaven/Hell
2. Why?

I am a PvP oriented light armored veno.

Bowlinbob - Lost City

1. hell

2. because it gives you a burger.. what other reason do you need.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

read my guide; it has a demon / sage section, here it is if youre too lazy to go to it like i am lol:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2079531&postcount=2

Sabariel - Lost City

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

read my guide; it has a demon / sage section, here it is if youre too lazy to go to it like i am lol:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2079531&postcount=2

QQ your guide is what made me stop knowing what I wanted.
I made this thread to try to get people to tell me what they decided/are going to decide and why

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

i went sage, i rely on my sparks while leveling because sage/demon skills eat MP by the truckload (venomous goes from 6x mp->130) and the 900% weapon matk bonus > 700% to me.

also i prefer our debuffing capabilities (sage amp, soul degeneration;omg owns sharpened tooth, sage ironwood) compared to your demon counterparts who render their ironwood near useless.

HolyInferno - Sanctuary

Saba

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=2930392#post2930392

Read post #6 by Akasera. I agree 100% with everything he says and is the exact reason why I went sage. He is just more articulate than me lolb:surrender

HolyInferno - Sanctuary

Sage gives higher consistant damge , which goes great with a LA's crit rate

Sage gives awesome foxform def boost, which goes great with a LA's defence.

These are two key points that I based my decision on b:cute

Sabariel - Lost City

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

i went sage, i rely on my sparks while leveling because sage/demon skills eat MP by the truckload (venomous goes from 6x mp->130) and the 900% weapon matk bonus > 700% to me.

also i prefer our debuffing capabilities (sage amp, soul degeneration;omg owns sharpened tooth, sage ironwood) compared to your demon counterparts who render their ironwood near useless.

HolyInferno - Sanctuary wrote: »

Saba

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=2930392#post2930392

Read post #6 by Akasera. I agree 100% with everything he says and is the exact reason why I went sage. He is just more articulate than me lolb:surrender

HolyInferno - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sage gives higher consistant damge , which goes great with a LA's crit rate

Sage gives awesome foxform def boost, which goes great with a LA's defence.

These are two key points that I based my decision on b:cute

Thanks so much! b:pleasedb:cute

I'll be going sage

Bowlinbob - Lost City

Sabariel - Lost City wrote: »

Thanks so much! b:pleasedb:cute

I'll be going sage

fiine ignore me >:

I made a good point too b:surrender

bai sabab:bye ill keel u later

Sabariel - Lost City

Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »

fiine ignore me >:

I made a good point too b:surrender

bai sabab:bye ill keel u later

rofl
genie's kill the fairy anyway QQ

RedsRose - Lost City

This might help ----> (but in all honest I only know a handful of Sage veno's on LC)

Byno - Sanctuary wrote: »

The people who say sage is for pve and demon is for pvp tend to base their generalization on two skills only : Wood Mastery and Fox Form. But demon has a lot of skills that are very useful for pve, and sage has plenty of skills more geared towards pvp, so it depends mostly on your preference. I personally prefer demon. I break it down like this:

• -Sage Wood Mastery gives 5% more damage than demon, but demon Venomous Scarab gives a 6 second debuff to increase wood damage by 30%. Tossing this out garentees the next attack or two will do 30% more, which for me makes up for sage's bonus. The debuff also allows any other venos to do more damage as well.
• -Demon Bramble Guard reflects 15% more, as opposed to sage's longer duration. More damage reflected means the tank not only holds more aggro, but sends back more damage which helps to bring down bosses even faster.
• -Sage Metabolic Boost and Nature's Grace increases the regen to 60%, while demon cuts the cooldown from 5 minutes to 3.5 minutes. Most venos use these skills to grind without using charms or pots, in which case demon gives slightly more regen: Sage gives .20% per second, while demon gives .24%. If your preference is to grind with an hp charm incase you get in over your head, sage's bonus is more or less useless unless it's used while the charm is on cooldown.
• -Sage purge gives a 5m aoe, while demon reduces it's cooldown by 25 seconds. The cooldown isn't enough that a veno can solo purge bosses who buff themselves, but in pve terms the sage's small aoe is more or less useless. The cooldown is better than nothing.
• -Sage amp boosts the damage from 20% to 50%, while demon increases the debuff's duration to 26 seconds. 50% damage is nice, but if it goes it's entire duration, demon gives more damage overall. Since this doesn't make much sense, I'll give you an example: If a party does an average of 5000 damage per second, sage would give a bonus 2500 damage per second, while demon gives 1000. This means that, under sage, the party would be doing 7500 per second, while demon does 6000. However, while at the end of 20 seconds sage has dealt 150,000 damage, at the end of 26 seconds demon has given 156,000. Obviously, two sage venos keeping a boss amped would do more damage, but when a veno is solo amping, such as when they're soloing a TT run, demon amp has the better outcome.

Sage, of course, does have bonuses that are also very helpful:

• -Demon Ironwood only has a 20% of reducing physical defence to 0, while sage does 40% reduction for 20 seconds. For pheonix venos, that means a 20% chance to tear whatever you're attacking apart, but for normal grinding the sage is the better bet.
• -Sage Noxious Gas gives a nice damage boost, while demon gives a one second cooldown, which is...Very useless.
• -Sage's Soul Degeneration reduces maximum HP by 20%, while demon's cuts down the target's evasion. For bosses, especially when soloing a TT, that 20% HP reduction means cutting the boss time down by 1/5. Demon's evasion debuff is only useful to any low dex phys memembers of the squad, and overall isn't useful enough that it would be used over amp.
• -Sage's Summer Sprint acts as an instant self purify, which is very useful for grinding any mobs that have any sort of debuff to throw at you. Demon's immunity to movement buffs is more useful for a pvp setting.

Beyond that, most skills fall under the 'personal preference category'. Sage spark skills are geared towards saving yourself chi, while demon spark skills are geared more towards dealing more damage. One of the biggest 'perference' skills is Fox Form. In pve terms, demon's speed increase helps with luring bosses and getting through dungeons quickly, as well as getting close enough to bosses you need to amp and then getting out of the way in between aoes. It's also helpful when you want to get around fast but still want your pet out incase a mob comes after you, such as with farming. Sage's defence increase is the opposite, as instead of getting you out of the way of the damage, it allows you to take the damage easier.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

i dont like her example for amp lol, its too unrealistic.

RedsRose - Lost City

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

i dont like her example for amp lol, its too unrealistic.

Lol....I kinda thought so too but the rest I think is not bad.

Sabariel - Lost City

b:cute Thanks again everyone for all the input.

Walterthewf - Harshlands

In reality you will not get books past venomous scarab, ironwood, and foxform.

Base your decision off that

Reikara - Heavens Tear

Uh, just remember that the extra defense is only +1k Pdef or; an extra -1% reduce phys damage on the sage fox form skill.

I went sage simply because the of the extra damage given from melee mastery and wood mastery, not only but the sage form accuracy, defense and the chi gain. Aoe purge, 30% dmg taken by target on amp, 60% heals, noxious gas, burning scarab and such were other reasons why.

Demon may be the most popular but mage venomancers are also the most popular build, and most go demon as this tends to be the #1 choice for this build. From what i've noticed though is most light venos tend to go demon for the extra crit and spike damage. I dont think you really miss out on the demon ironwood as sage, if you're able to get your aoe fox form skill. While the chance is random, at least it still has all these other great debuffs aswell.

Good god, only base your decision on what Walterthewf said if you're planning to get to 89 then quit. Although not all skill books may not be currently available, it does not mean they won't be in the future. There's still alot of content PWI is yet to release, skill books included. You may find you've chosen the wrong cultivation if you only choose according to what is currently available, then find out later on all these new skills have been released which you cant acquire.

Sabariel - Lost City

Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Uh, just remember that the extra defense is only +1k Pdef or; an extra -1% reduce phys damage on the sage fox form skill.

I went sage simply because the of the extra damage given from melee mastery and wood mastery, not only but the sage form accuracy, defense and the chi gain. Aoe purge, 30% dmg taken by target on amp, 60% heals, noxious gas, burning scarab and such were other reasons why.

Demon may be the most popular but mage venomancers are also the most popular build, and most go demon as this tends to be the #1 choice for this build. From what i've noticed though is most light venos tend to go demon for the extra crit and spike damage. I dont think you really miss out on the demon ironwood as sage, if you're able to get your aoe fox form skill. While the chance is random, at least it still has all these other great debuffs aswell.

Good god, only base your decision on what Walterthewf said if you're planning to get to 89 then quit. Although not all skill books may not be currently available, it does not mean they won't be in the future. There's still alot of content PWI is yet to release, skill books included. You may find you've chosen the wrong cultivation if you only choose according to what is currently available, then find out later on all these new skills have been released which you cant acquire.

Naturally, I took all of the skills into account and telling me that I'm only following one person's post and I should quit was a bit rude.

In my OP, I already said I was leaning toward Sage, they just strengthened my decision.

Honestly, if you're going to come in here and insult, why bother posting? I asked for help with my decision not worthless banter.

Bowlinbob - Lost City

Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Uh, just remember that the extra defense is only +1k Pdef or; an extra -1% reduce phys damage on the sage fox form skill.

I went sage simply because the of the extra damage given from melee mastery and wood mastery, not only but the sage form accuracy, defense and the chi gain. Aoe purge, 30% dmg taken by target on amp, 60% heals, noxious gas, burning scarab and such were other reasons why.

Demon may be the most popular but mage venomancers are also the most popular build, and most go demon as this tends to be the #1 choice for this build. From what i've noticed though is most light venos tend to go demon for the extra crit and spike damage. I dont think you really miss out on the demon ironwood as sage, if you're able to get your aoe fox form skill. While the chance is random, at least it still has all these other great debuffs aswell.

Good god, only base your decision on what Walterthewf said if you're planning to get to 89 then quit. Although not all skill books may not be currently available, it does not mean they won't be in the future. There's still alot of content PWI is yet to release, skill books included. You may find you've chosen the wrong cultivation if you only choose according to what is currently available, then find out later on all these new skills have been released which you cant acquire.

originally posted by the OP -"I am a PvP oriented light armored veno."

who the hell are you to come in here from your carebear server and give your input on what path for a pvp veno to follow? Kindly gtfo of this thread and waddle back to your grinding.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »

originally posted by the OP -"I am a PvP oriented light armored veno."

who the hell are you to come in here from your carebear server and give your input on what path for a pvp veno to follow? Kindly gtfo of this thread and waddle back to your grinding.

How cute, the QQbear talking trash to the carebear....
Same way pvp players may have an insight into pve, pve players have insights into pvp...

Unless this is your random post of the day, at which I would have to say LOL

Bowlinbob - Lost City

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

How cute, the QQbear talking trash to the carebear....
Same way pvp players may have an insight into pve, pve players have insights into pvp...

Unless this is your random post of the day, at which I would have to say LOL

nah im simply stating the fact that people who know nothing about pvp should butt out of a pvp discussion. Go back to grinding.

Edit: i c how it is, pve idiots have to come into the forums to vent their frustration since they cant do it ingame due to the lack of conflict.

The point is..Riekra or w/e her name is was out of line in her post, and now you come in, sniffing her a** defending someone that doesnt deserve to be defended.

Reikara - Heavens Tear

Insult? Sorry if I came off that way. I just had problems with Walterthewf's logic ealrier on when I posted a similar thread prior to my level 89 cultivation choice. I had a few people tell me the same thing, only base your cultivation choice on the 3 skills available now. Which I find quite flawed and short-sighted, since the better ones are yet to be released. By no means was I implying that you were.

But hey, above that I was only giving my input. But I fogort... it's not like the PvE servers have Territory war.. optional PvP .. it's not like my own build is designed for pvp (signature) ...
Sorry for helping.

Bowlinbob - Lost City

Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Insult? Sorry if I came off that way. I just had problems with Walterthewf's logic ealrier on when I posted a similar thread prior to my level 89 cultivation choice. I had a few people tell me the same thing, only base your cultivation choice on the 3 skills available now. Which I find quite flawed and short-sighted, since the better ones are yet to be released.

But hey, above that I was only giving my input. But I fogort... it's not like the PvE servers have Territory war.. optional PvP .. it's not like my own build is designed for pvp ...
Sorry for helping.

pve worlds let you choose when u want to pk. that isnt anywhere close to what pvp servers are. We dont choose.. "oh today i feel like pking" no.. you always have to be ready while grinding or w/e your doing, so none of your logic/opinion can be placed on this thread since you choose when you want to be in pvp mode.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

Walterthewf - Harshlands wrote: »

In reality you will not get books past venomous scarab, ironwood, and foxform.

Base your decision off that

your logic is flawed, theyre not avaliable on YOUR server. i for one have sage wood mastery and aiming for another skill book soon, as soon as i can buy another few old book pages. sact has a steady inflow of them from delta parties.

Reikara - Heavens Tear

Oh wow! so suddenly the fact that I have the choice of when I want to PvP means I have absolutly NO PvP experience at all!!

The only reason I'm not on a PvP server is simply due to the fact that I like to keep PvP and PvE seperate. I dont like the idea of being sprung up upon, but that doesn't mean i'm a tea partying care bear. What about you? You're supposed to be far more experienced than I am in a PvP server with your level 30 veno on lost city?

If you trolled the veno forums far more often you'd see i'm always here giving as much PvP advice as I can, hence the reason I even (dared?) to post on this thread in the first place. The reason I chose sage for my build was for PvP.

Alphae - Lost City

Disclaimer: Basically c/p what I said in another thread.

From looking at the demon vs sage skills, demon to me is improving buffs/debuffs and granting more special abilities while sage is all about raw damaging power.

As a magic veno, not pure vit, and heavy on the phys res stones, demon interests me more personally. I do good damage, and the improved debuffs on mag spells and longer amp appeals to me.

However, I know there have been sage mag venos that do very well. There are also both sage and demon LA and HA venos.

It really depends on YOUR playing style and preference.

To me, decreasing the cooldown and duration of the main buffs and debuffs I use (amp, bramble guard), increasing the power of the ironwood and giving me a chance for armor break, and adding a debuff to venomous, is the improvement in my debuffing power that I want for MY play style.

Hitting on some of the main arguments people use and why I prefer demon to sage:

1. Fox form. Fox is a last resort for me. I never fox except to amp and purge. My pdef is so low, it's dumb to think fox is going to make a difference. Therefore, the speed increase is far more useful to me than a multiplication of my measly pdef.

2. Sage chi bonus/sage spark.The chi bonuses and spark of sage are nice but not at all essential. Veno is one of the least chi-dependent classes out there. Furthermore, I don't spark while grinding, which is 99% of my playing time, so while the sage spark is nice, it's again not necessary for me. My spark is for my tank, not for me... Nothing wrong with playing behind your pet in PvE, spark is a waste in PvE in general except in very specific situations in my humble opinion--most mobs don't merit a spark. Soul transfusion is very useful to me, since I've got vit and therefore an improved HP regen rate. I'd rather improve the things I use all the time vs a "better" (to some) thing I use only very rarely.

3. Ironwood scarab. Ok, it *kind of* puts me off that there is only a 20% chance to armor break and an 80% chance to do nothing. BUT with the debuff on venemous, I can make up for that with my nukes in grinding, and if I really get sad and want to see that little pink icon thingy over the mob I'll whip out a pet with Pierce. =p

Saba, it's all about personal play style. I'd look at the spells/fox skills you find yourself using most often, and combine that with what you want your culti to help you do most--lessen your weaknesses, or improve your strengths (I picked, improve my strengths--I'd rather get **** at what I'm not good at, and be really good at what I am good at, rather than mediocre at all of it). Make your decision based upon your play style, not what other people do.

EDIT: Wow, this became a wall of text pretty fast O_o and I missed all the drama whilst typing it.

Bowlinbob - Lost City

Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Good god, only base your decision on what Walterthewf said if you're planning to get to 89 then quit.

this^ was not necessary, we all could have done without that. Take your trolling elsewhere

Edit: i only troll on people who need to be trolled on.

Reikara - Heavens Tear

What I mean by that is;
If you're going to take Walterthewf's advice, you may aswell only play to level 89 then quit, seeing as the newer content would be released and more than likley you may have missed out on some seriously good skills.

Belial - Heavens Tear

Well... I really didn't want the burgerhead around me for 10 levels!

I went Sage. I also like the constant damage over spikes (it's hard enough dealing with gaining aggro now with my 2% crit rate, as my poor guildies will tell you b:chuckle) and besides all the Chi is b:victory.

I hate the level 109 fairy - such big ears! It's just as well I'm capping myself to avoid the Level 99 yellow winged one too - it is so b:lipcurl.

Bowlinbob - Lost City

Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What I mean by that is;
If you're going to take Walterthewf's advice, you may aswell only play to level 89 then quit, seeing as the newer content would be released and more than likley you may have missed out on some seriously good skills.

see you coulda spelled that out for us earlier -_-

the way it originally sounded like was " if you dont agree with me, you are an idiot and you should quit immediately , walters an idiot"

Reikara - Heavens Tear

Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »

see you coulda spelled that out for us earlier -_-

the way it originally sounded like was " if you dont agree with me, you are an idiot and you should quit immediately , walters an idiot" .

Sorry. I was a little confused as to where this whole "insult" thing was coming from aswell. Also, if there's one thing I can't stand it's other players trying to tell me I have no expereince in PvP simply because i'm on a PvE server.

Sabariel - Lost City

I think its safe to say this thread is officially broken. Its gone way off topic, but I've already reached my decision. I would like to offer my thanks to those of you that were constructive.

And, Reikara, there is absolutely no other way anyone could have taken your post rather than an insult. An insult to me - and to Walterthewf. I understand you could have meant differently, but people don't read what you meant to say, they read what is spelled out in front of them.

I'd also appreciate if you'd stop attacking each other >.>
Peanut is my friend and was trying to defend me because he too saw your post to be an insult. b:cute Thanks, Peanut