Does kindness pay?

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

OK, I'm a sucker. I admit it. I feel sorry for people and always try to help out, even though I usually end up getting taken advantage of. I come from a long line of martyrs on my mother's side, so I think it's genetic.

Fortunately, PWI has been really good therapy. I've charged outrageous prices at my cat-shops, bought out Gold when it was low and caused the prices to jump up 15k, hoarded all the pigments whenever new fashions came out, ruthlessly under-sold competing cat-shops and driven them away from the most profitable locations, and generally just been an all-around no-holds-barred capitalist.

But the QQers say I would benefit from learning about "kindness".

"BAH!" I said to myself, but of course then the martyr genes kicked in.

See, during the mayhem of the Battle Pet Pack sale on Saturday I was buying and selling at a fierce rate. Then this happened:

Veno: "hi"
Me: "Heyas"
Veno: "can you help me?"
Me: "With?"

Now, I won't give you the full sob story, because frankly it wasn't a very good one. Most of you probably would be disgusted at how easily I caved, and I don't dare give the details lest my evil girlfriend reads it and starts re-thinking her relationship with such a bleeding-heart milquetoast.

In the end, though, I promised to see if I could somehow help a random Veno that was 20% short of getting a Herc manage to afford one anyway. I'd take a 2.5million loss if I just outright sold to her at the price she could afford. Some say that would have been the "kind" thing to do, but I kinda suspect it would have been the "sucker" thing to do, actually.

See, here's the thing: every time I asked a question as to why the Veno didn't just go buy gold herself and use it to get SoF at the lowest possible price, the conversation went silent. As long as we were discussing possible ways *I* could swing some of *my* financial leverage to get her a lower price, she responded, but whenever I suggested she could use some of *her* financial leverage in the same way for *her* own benefit, or offered to teach her how, she'd change the subject.

I probably made at least 25% profit during all the time that the Veno wouldn't take my advice, but to be fair I knew exactly what I was doing. I figured maybe we'd figure something out on Sunday, but of course that all went to pot when the sale ended early.

Which turned out to be GREAT news for the Veno!

Because gold prices plummeted, you see, and that meant she could buy gold, hold onto it for the next promised sale, then buy her Herc and still have funds left over! Yay! A happy ending for all!

Well, no. Because it turns out that even though I explained to the Veno that she needed to buy gold and wait, she didn't buy. She waited, though. When gold was just about to pass the price at which she could have still afforded the Herc (but minus any extra funds left over) I recommended she jump in and buy anyway, just to be sure. No response. In fact, she logged off.

So I suspect that in the end, to her I'm nothing more than an insurance policy. If the Veno manages to raise enough funds before the next sale to be able to afford her Herc, then I won't be needed. But should she fall short I suspect that that's when I'm supposed to fill in the gap and "kindly" take a loss so that she can get her Herc anyway.

So does "kindness" pay? If this was 1 year ago, I'd have probably already taken the loss. But PWI has taught me that a lot of times when people ask for "kindness", all they're really asking for is for you to play the game for them and give them a handout. We're supposed to be playing the game because we want to play, not using moral-manipulation to guilt others into playing it for us. Right?

Or am I being unkind?

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

do u know her/him ? no then why be THAT kind

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »

do u know her/him ? no then why be THAT kind

But isn't that kinda part of being kind? I mean, I give in-game items/coin to my gf/sister/real-life friends without thinking that's about kindness at all. They're not even real items, so of course I share them with friends.

Xiaotutu - Heavens Tear

It's not a small amount. If it was just 100k or so then maybe, but what if you agreed and word got out about your act of kindness you prob land yourself a crapload of spammers.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

people in this game tend to be only looking out for themselves 95% of the time; hence why kindness only leads to butt pains and headaches.

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

But isn't that kinda part of being kind? I mean, I give in-game items/coin to my gf/sister/real-life friends without thinking that's about kindness at all. They're not even real items, so of course I share them with friends.

I'll tell u what is kind:

be near a boss and a player ask u to help him, if u help him is being kind
the same players asking then 10 other different bosses and quests... u got that

Terraa - Lost City

So does "kindness" pay? If this was 1 year ago, I'd have probably already taken the loss. But PWI has taught me that a lot of times when people ask for "kindness", all they're really asking for is for you to play the game for them and give them a handout. We're supposed to be playing the game because we want to play, not using moral-manipulation to guilt others into playing it for us. Right?

Or am I being unkind?

I do believe you already know your answer. Allow me to help you accept that:

Kindness is buffing someone grinding near you. Kindness is rezzing someone who bit off a bit more than they could handle near you, and rezzing them. Kindness is giving someone a little extra for their extra effort whether it's finding you to arrange a trade, or helping you smite a boss you couldn't otherwise handle.

Kindness is, in fact, slashing your prices down a little bit so someone can afford to buy what they want from you. Therein lies the difference; kindness is not luring someone to drop their prices for you, that's manipulation. If she were buying all her SoF from you, then found she was a bit short, and asked if you could make an exception and let her have a bit more for a lower price, that would be cool by me; but from what you're saying, you're getting stuck in that lust phase of things, and are allowing her to take advantage of you by even considering this as an option. That lust bit is the manipulation part. And you know this to be true, because you mentioned your girlfriend in the equation. Whether you want to appear to be a bad-**** to her instead of the bleeding equestrian or some other lame word whose origin I don't know yet, or you didn't want her to read about how said veno flirted her way into your good graces, all crashes down to: you don't want your girlfriend to read it; either of which comes down to, because it's something you know that she will think is bad.

On the other hand, 25% isn't very big in the long run. 2.5 mill can seem like a lot, but honestly; it takes 10k times 2.7k coins on LC to make either a herc or a nix, you're not even losing 10% of your assets. Make some quick sales, or something~

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

Terraa - Lost City wrote: »

Kindness is buffing someone grinding near you. Kindness is rezzing someone who bit off a bit more than they could handle near you, and rezzing them. Kindness is giving someone a little extra for their extra effort whether it's finding you to arrange a trade, or helping you smite a boss you couldn't otherwise handle.

I think that you're right. Kindness is going that little extra bit. People should repay kindness with kindness, because it makes the world, or in this case a video game world, a nicer place for everyone.

But in all honesty (if I can step out of my irreverent forum persona for a sec) I genuinely have had a problem my whole life with setting boundaries. I got taken advantage of a lot because I think I was trying to prove to myself that I was a good person, no matter what the cost.

Terraa - Lost City wrote: »

Kindness is, in fact, slashing your prices down a little bit so someone can afford to buy what they want from you. Therein lies the difference; kindness is not luring someone to drop their prices for you, that's manipulation.

The thing is, I did offer to sell at-cost for 0% mark-up. I knew that's where the boundary ought to be. But then she asked for even less, and the boundary broke down and I said I'd see what I could do. I think at that point it became a character flaw, not an act of kindness.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

To me it's pretty simple: True kindness doesn't expect repayment. You find someone you feel is deserving of a break, and you give it to them. No questions asked, no strings attached, no expectations for something in return.

It sounds like what you're doing is altruism - acts done where the primary beneficiary is not yourself but rather your social group (in this case, the players on your server). So you're questioning whether helping this person out will in fact benefit the playerbase. It's more noble than commerce (cat shopping, where the transactions are equal on both sides) because you'll be sharing the benefit of your half of the transaction with everyone else. But you are still wanting something out of this. Whether it's because you're curious what the result will be, or you enjoy social engineering projects. In that context, unless you feel that your goals will be achieved by helping this player out, then you probably don't want to be helping them.

You've also correctly identified that people asking for kindness are in fact frequently asking for a transaction which is tilted in their favor - the opposite of altruism, and worse than commerce. I'd be highly suspicious of those people too. The only time I feel they're legit is if they can make an appeal to fairness. e.g. 2 molds have dropped in an FB, and the loot randomizer has given both to you. In that case I'd consider a request to give the second mold to someone else to be legitimate.

But none of these are kindness. True kindness, like Terraa said, is buffing or ressing someone because they need it, with no expectations for anything return. Well, maybe a thank you.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

The thing is, I did offer to sell at-cost for 0% mark-up. I knew that's where the boundary ought to be. But then she asked for even less, and the boundary broke down and I said I'd see what I could do. I think at that point it became a character flaw, not an act of kindness.

I don't see 0% mark-up as the bottom limit. If you end up buying store inventory at too high a price, the only way to liquidate it is to sell it at a loss. So I think there are legitimate reasons to sell for a loss. Again, like Terraa said, if the person had frequented your store in the past, then that could be a good reason to cross the line and give them something at a loss. You may take a loss on this particular sale, but all your sales with the person will on balance still show a profit.

In fact sometimes that's a good business strategy to cement a relationship with such a deal. The other person may the reciprocate and buy from your store even when they know they could get the item cheaper elsewhere.

peacefulsilence

Hee hee, I learned your lesson a long time ago on other games. x3 I learned it pretty easy and fast because my first ecounters of moochers were people wanting me to grind for them while they afked. I'm like, "Will you pay me then?", then they would be like "no, free plz?". Then when I refused the flurry of begging and harassment would insue clueing me in they just wanted it easy street to being a high level. Same deal with free items.
Sure I'm not completely heartless, if I'm bored I'll often help with a few quests. Every now and then I'll give my friends little gifts. But outright shelling millions to a complete stranger. They can go f' themselves.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

See, here's the thing: every time I asked a question as to why the Veno didn't just go buy gold herself and use it to get SoF at the lowest possible price, the conversation went silent. As long as we were discussing possible ways *I* could swing some of *my* financial leverage to get her a lower price, she responded, but whenever I suggested she could use some of *her* financial leverage in the same way for *her* own benefit, or offered to teach her how, she'd change the subject.

And right there you know she was trying to use you. Probably some 13 year old brat.

Baraya - Dreamweaver

When someone asks for help leveling up as though they just want me to do the killing or asks for help with large amounts of money, I turn a cold shoulder to them. You are right that many people in the game just want a free ride. If they could bot, they probably would. You must always protect yourself whether being nice or not. That's one of the secrets to not giving up on kindness. It is worth a lot in the right situations. Just remember that a good friendship is worth more than a gift.

inbetween0

Did I miss something from this post? I dont see anywhere in his story where he was giving up anything or being kind in any way except for the fact he took his time to explain some economics to some stranger. How exactly did he lose something when according to him it has yet to happen.

vampirenite

From what you said (OP), it would seem to me that the Veno was trying to take advantage of you. What she/he was doing was no different than the annoying people that going around asking to be given money, or the Catshops that advertise Crazy Stones at one price then have the last stone 100K higher to catch the unobservant sucker.

Obvious hints to me were silences when asked key questions. One thing I have learned is that there are many "scammers" and beggars in PW.

Kindness in PWI IMHO is helping people who really need help, like killing a boss that is impossible for them. Or giving them advice on how to do something. I do sometimes give coin or sell below cost, but only to Guildies and people I know.

Foxx - Heavens Tear

Ill donate money to people (or charities) who deserve it, not to random people (beggars) in PW.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

inbetween0 wrote: »

Did I miss something from this post? I dont see anywhere in his story where he was giving up anything or being kind in any way except for the fact he took his time to explain some economics to some stranger. How exactly did he lose something when according to him it has yet to happen.

You're right, I haven't lost anything. I was, however, planning to make sure this Veno did get her Herc, even if it cost me.

However, when I found out the Veno had decided not to buy gold when the prices dropped, I decided no, I'm not going to make this sacrifice. She had had more than enough money to get the Herc herself after gold prices dropped, but she chose to spend it on something else instead (ie. gambling that prices would drop even further). That's her choice, of course, but my promise was that I would figure out some way that she'd be able to afford it, and for 1 1/2 days she could have.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't see 0% mark-up as the bottom limit. If you end up buying store inventory at too high a price, the only way to liquidate it is to sell it at a loss. So I think there are legitimate reasons to sell for a loss. Again, like Terraa said, if the person had frequented your store in the past, then that could be a good reason to cross the line and give them something at a loss. You may take a loss on this particular sale, but all your sales with the person will on balance still show a profit.

True, 0% isn't always the bottom limit. For example, I sold quite a lot of inventory for a loss when the sale started because I knew I had a short-lived opportunity to quickly turn a profit with the money. So sometimes it's even financially beneficial to sell at a loss.

I think in this case though, 0% was a pretty reasonable boundary to set for a complete stranger asking for help, especially considering I explained to her exactly what I was doing to earn a profit during the sale and encouraged her and offered to help her to do the same.

Challotte - Dreamweaver

"does it pay to be kind?"

To me that implies one is only kind when there's a chance to get something out of it.

The only thing I get out of being kind is that I feel good about helping someone else.

True it puts one in the position of being more easily "scammed" and "walked all over," but if I feel like doing something nice for someone, I really don't care how it turns out.

I do kind things because I feel like it - I don't always feel like it, but in those instances where I do, I NEVER have any regrets

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

To put it simply, be nice to those who are nice to you and have no time for the rest.

If you see someone dead rez them. If they thank you, buff and heal them and be on your way. Mebbe buff them again if you see them later. If someone drags you across the map swearing at you to rez, ignore them completely.
I only help people who help themselves. If someone is trying everything they can and is willing to learn, I do all I can to help. If someone "want itemz nao plz" I completely blot them out and ignore. If you need a boss, I'll help. If you want me to do all your easy quests while you go afk, keep wanting.

In this case the veno was purely taking advantage. I dunno what you were at even listening to that garbage. O_o
Terraa makes a good point. I wonder if a big ugly BM or barb in non-matching NPC armour would have got the same treatment. b:laugh They're called Venomancers for a reason

FitHitDShan - Sanctuary

Warren, you describe the same moral decision-making as most people. It is not a character flaw in that it is not at all atypical. Consider:

Challotte - Dreamweaver wrote: »

To me that implies one is only kind when there's a chance to get something out of it.

The only thing I get out of being kind is that I feel good about helping someone else.

True it puts one in the position of being more easily "scammed" and "walked all over," but if I feel like doing something nice for someone, I really don't care how it turns out.

I do kind things because I feel like it - I don't always feel like it, but in those instances where I do, I NEVER have any regrets

This is the same decision-making process you describe for yourself. You were willing to take a loss (not sell at a book loss to avoid carrying costs as one poster suggested nor sell at a loss-leader price for marketting advantage as you yourself suggested, but an honet-to-goodness financial loss). The reward that would have made this loss worthwhile for you was the sense of well-being from having helped someone. However, as you got an increasing sense that the person really did not need help, but was in fact conning you, that benefit of well-being evaporated. Consequently, you are no longer willing to pay for a feeling that is no longer there.

I don't see anything wrong with the way you draw lines. However, if you routinely have feelings of regret after the fact, it is probably due to either (1) getting additional information ex post that makes you change your assesment of the person to whom you have been kind, or (2) a suspicious nature that kicks in after the fact. If it is (1), and it is common enough to make you nervous about the whole notion of kindness, then you need to resolve to do more checking before giving. If it is (2), then you need to just apply a principle your economic accumen suggests you know well - sunk costs are sunk and should not affect future decisions.

Terraa - Lost City

Challotte - Dreamweaver wrote: »

"does it pay to be kind?"

To me that implies one is only kind when there's a chance to get something out of it.

The only thing I get out of being kind is that I feel good about helping someone else.

True it puts one in the position of being more easily "scammed" and "walked all over," but if I feel like doing something nice for someone, I really don't care how it turns out.

I do kind things because I feel like it - I don't always feel like it, but in those instances where I do, I NEVER have any regrets

Let's be fair; I don't think Warren was asking the forums if it literally benefit him most to be kind, but instead was asking if he were to be kind in *this* instance, would we believe he would be the target of a scam. I think Baraya illustrates this point perfectly, that one should always protect themselves in the first place. If I were to rezz and buff somebody nearby, the absolute worst thing they could do to me is turn around and kill me, and I've modified my behavior to protect myself from that (in this case, I have a no-rezz list. I also consider them targets of opportunity, should I see them pink from nothing more than 'defending themselves'... /wink). The difference here is Warren could be spending real life money, or at the very least money that takes him significantly more time to make than it takes for me to rezz/rebuff, and there's a good chance the individual he's considering assisting could be taking advantage of him. There's a lot more to lose than my 1% chance that I will drop something from my inventory and his potential loss of millions of coins, and he's a lot less protected from bad behavior than I am.

Actually, I believe we can call this a /thread at Solandri's post, but FitHitDShan has quite a few points too. That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.

Aoe - Heavens Tear

I think actuality kindness does pay to the extent that you get a wonderful feeling of pride for helping someone in NEED. I capitalized that because here is where you have to use judgment is this person truly in need. Sometimes what someone wants and what someone needs are two different things. You'll see drug addicts do this. They want a fix but they know no one will pay for it so they go around begging for money for food instead. If you give him the money then you've been taken advantage of, but if you offer him food instead and he refuses then you've used some good logic and caught him in a lie saved yourself from being a sucker.

There extent of need is this, sometimes the kindness is sharing knowledge that person could use to achieve his own self support. The saying goes give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a life time. You expressed kindness enough in teaching her how to earn the money. Sometimes doing everything for a player can hinder them from having fun in their own gaming experience. Power leveling and doing low level quests for newer players hinders them from learning their skills effectively. However teaching them how to find the quest, or use coordinates would be more beneficial. Actuality it saves yourself some money. Playing an mmorpg is costly and you need to keep your own money.

Sometimes you have to weave through the sap story to discover the truth in itself. Also i wanted to point this out for the fellas. Just because she is a big boobed character does not mean in actuality that she is a real girl in real life, or that she is helpless. I mention that because many men play this game as women just to get a free hand out. I am a girl myself and i have never taken handouts from anyone. I listen to the advice that is given to me and try to do that instead. I feel most real girls in this game play like that (im not speaking for everyone you probably know an actual girl that does mooch). Believe me their are guys that can behave like girls and you would never know the difference.

If she is a real girl don't do the quests for her or buy stuff for her (unless you are her bf and want to get her gifts). I'll give an example, i have a friend in real life that is very pretty. Guys give her free stuff all the time, buying her things spoiling her. However, she is married in real life so those men do not even have a chance with her. See my point. I'm a girl too like i said but i have bf and it would be wrong to take something from a guy who had other intentions other than being friends. If you do have a girl that is a friend and you to give each other stuff then this doesn't apply to you that girl views you as a friend not a sucker. And the kindness you give her she returns. I'm talking about the guys that give and give and never get anything in return. Then im sorry hun but you've been taken advantage of. In the end if a girl is in trouble just teach her how to play the game she'll enjoy it better than mooching off someone. In the end she'll appreciate your kindness.

Actually i wanted to thank Solandri his guide for how he makes money in the game helped me alot. I don't make as much money as he does but I am able to support my character and get a few luxuries. ^ ^

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Terraa - Lost City wrote: »

I do believe you already know your answer. Allow me to help you accept that:

Kindness is buffing someone grinding near you. Kindness is rezzing someone who bit off a bit more than they could handle near you, and rezzing them. Kindness is giving someone a little extra for their extra effort whether it's finding you to arrange a trade, or helping you smite a boss you couldn't otherwise handle.

Kindness is, in fact, slashing your prices down a little bit so someone can afford to buy what they want from you. Therein lies the difference; kindness is not luring someone to drop their prices for you, that's manipulation. If she were buying all her SoF from you, then found she was a bit short, and asked if you could make an exception and let her have a bit more for a lower price, that would be cool by me; but from what you're saying, you're getting stuck in that lust phase of things, and are allowing her to take advantage of you by even considering this as an option. That lust bit is the manipulation part. And you know this to be true, because you mentioned your girlfriend in the equation. Whether you want to appear to be a bad-**** to her instead of the bleeding equestrian or some other lame word whose origin I don't know yet, or you didn't want her to read about how said veno flirted her way into your good graces, all crashes down to: you don't want your girlfriend to read it; either of which comes down to, because it's something you know that she will think is bad.

On the other hand, 25% isn't very big in the long run. 2.5 mill can seem like a lot, but honestly; it takes 10k times 2.7k coins on LC to make either a herc or a nix, you're not even losing 10% of your assets. Make some quick sales, or something~

worded so nicely b:pleased

Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear

Give a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set the man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Swoop - Heavens Tear

I'm all for being kind to other players. I often buff and rez random players as I fly past. And have at times killed a few bosses. I don't however buff or rez beggers. Nor do I squad with players who send random squad requests just because you happen to be in the area. Which you reject, then they send you 5 more and follow you around begging you "If I rejected the first squad request, I'm not going to except the next 5 you send am I?"b:angry. And half the time they don't even try to fight the mobs, they just stand there like a starched **** in a thunderstorm. You feel like saying "At least try and fight one of them, y'know make an effort. A lot of the people who play this game are like children, everything has to be done for them. Those are the people who get nothing from me. Another thing I don't get is half of em are in factions. Isn't the whole point of joining a Faction, so you have people to help you? Why don't you ask them?

Aadi - Lost City

I think I'm too kind to other players. Today I was in swamps and was asked to ress a friend near me, fine, then immediately got a request from another friend in Misfortune for a ress. So I flew all the way up there...then the same person who asked me for ress first had died again so I flew back down to ress them again. x___x;

But on the other hand, I love the feeling that I'm needed, and love the feeling that it gives me when I ress people or are able to help with bosses. So it works out for me.

Amarta - Sanctuary

Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Give a man a fire and he will be warm for a night. Set the man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

...his short...painful...smokey life.

Kephras - Heavens Tear

b:shocked

Someone's been reading my sig?

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

kindness is answering questions from a confused new player, who is new to the whole MMORPG world, and wants to know how to do the things she sees others do.tonight, a veno i saw in wolf totem asked me why she couldnt cast, couldnt shapechange, and other things, and i asked her if she usually played with the hammers she was carrying atm. she hadnt made the connection, and when i asked her if she had a magic weapon, or a pet, she got both out, took care of a mob who chose that moment to attack, and she was happily on her way. or someone who is trying to do yangchang, their golem dies, and you send a pet after it to prevent him from running loose hurting people. (what made that funny was that i was just passing by, with my pig out, saw it happen, and sent my pig to take him out. at the same time, i saw another pig heading after him too!
b:chuckle)

kindness is passing along the little helps that *we* recieved when we were new, helping others as we would wish to be helped in need.

Terraa - Lost City wrote: »

I do believe you already know your answer. Allow me to help you accept that:

Kindness is buffing someone grinding near you. Kindness is rezzing someone who bit off a bit more than they could handle near you, and rezzing them. Kindness is giving someone a little extra for their extra effort whether it's finding you to arrange a trade, or helping you smite a boss you couldn't otherwise handle.

FedTehNoob - Lost City

Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:shocked

Someone's been reading my sig?

I don't think so, he worded it differently.

__________________________________________________________

Anyways, Wolfy.

I believe that kindness does pay. For example, in another MMO (Whose name I will not mention), I was a noob (as always b:kiss) and I was really poor, and I hardly knew anything about the game.

Well anyways, a nice guy agreed to help me out with this "impossible" quest I had. He was more than helpful, infact, adding me to his friends list, he also gave me 2 rings, a necklace, and 100k. (Back then, I was like ZOMFG 100K !!!)

I never forgot what he did to help out a noob like me. So when I quit months later, I found him again and gladly gave him all 23m that I had..............





.........However, this is different, I think this chick is trying to take advantage of you! b:angry

Swoop - Heavens Tear

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

I think I'm too kind to other players. Today I was in swamps and was asked to ress a friend near me, fine, then immediately got a request from another friend in Misfortune for a ress. So I flew all the way up there...then the same person who asked me for ress first had died again so I flew back down to ress them again. x___x;

But on the other hand, I love the feeling that I'm needed, and love the feeling that it gives me when I ress people or are able to help with bosses. So it works out for me.

Been there before, I once flew from Dreamweaver to Lost, then to Secret passage. Then back to Dreamweaver to finish my quest, after a stop at Hidden Orchid. I think being a Cleric is like being God. If you do too much people become dependant on you, if you do too little people lose faith in you. So you have to find the balance and do just enough. If you always give they will always have their hands out wanting more.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

kindness will lead you to a shorter lifespan.