Destroying the economy?
Comments
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Mer_Lina - Sanctuary wrote: »Not really. As a prior post points out, as players get higher in levels their in-game cash flow also increases. As the average level of the player base increases, the amount of in-game cash also increases along with it. It's just part of the game. Think back, when you where in your 10's and 20's, getting 100k was a pain. But once you hit your 60's and 70's, 100k is easier to make. Plain and simple.
Also keep in mind, if their is to much in-game coins floating around. The value of in-game coins will go down. People with a lot of coins will pay whatever prices they want for items and prices of not only Gold but other items will continue to rise.
End result: every time in-game coin is taken out of the game, it keep the economy stable and values more constant.
On another note: As prices of gold goes up, it gets harder for lower level players to easily obtain items from boutique. That is understood, but it will not drive them away from the game. Since this game is setup so you don't really need these items to play. All boutique items in effect are luxury items and not necessities.
It's not just the price of gold that will go up. The cost of pretty much everything will go up from gear to DQ. Everything.
On Delphi, a server that is much older than any server here has the prices of gold around 650k, and those ultimate subs are around 150k, twice what it is here. Fashion isn't nominally between 200k and up, it's nominally above 1 million. While there is some below 1 million, a large bulk of what is in cat shops isn't. A lot of other gear has also risen in price as well, but the biggest drawback to the gold price increase is if you make a mistake somewhere with your stats, you either live with it until much higher levels, buy Zen, or re-roll.
So, it doesn't just affect boutique items, it affects everything.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
That place sounds pretty greed driven, besides encouraging massive inflation gets you warnings from GM's over here(i.e people trying to sell gold for 500K+ after the friday 13th emergency maintenance).Currently flying internet spaceships around dodixie, moving to amarr soon.
Send me a mail if you wanna ask/request anything
Sanctuary's retired king of wizards alongside queen Saintblu.0 -
Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »That place sounds pretty greed driven, besides encouraging massive inflation gets you warnings from GM's over here(i.e people trying to sell gold for 500K+ after the friday 13th emergency maintenance).
Part of it is the age of the server (older), the average level is probably much much higher than here, and a single faction (Immortal) controls all of the land outside of 3, and they are up to Platinum Charms now.
So, it isn't just a matter of greed since prices are relative to each other.
Many decades ago there were five and dime stores where the items cost 5 and 10 cents. Today those stores have been replaced by dollar stores because that is how devalued the US dollar is now. Same thing with in-game player run economies.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
EDIT: pound sign cut off the rest of my message, can't be arsed reposting =\Currently flying internet spaceships around dodixie, moving to amarr soon.
Send me a mail if you wanna ask/request anything
Sanctuary's retired king of wizards alongside queen Saintblu.0 -
You mean the Republicans who reduced laws and oversight over the markets? This is related to economists, how? Economists know that raising taxes can help the economy, depending on the cycle. Good luck seeing it actually happen. If politicians actually listened to people rather than "stay the course" regardless of information, the last few years would have been different.IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »All the economist that advised the polititians that messed up the economy also had economics degrees....
This doesn't contradict my point at all.IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »In a pure capitalistic sociaty, which PWI is, unlike the real world, the laws of supply and demand work very well, and the prices tend to be "fair prices". The only thing that throws off the equation in PWI is that there are no storage costs associated to holding on to items, therefore there is no cost to wait, that on some of the sales, there is a "chance" to get something cool. (which changes the value of the items being sold)
The point was that "permanent boycott" works, "delay purchase" does absolutely nothing.IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »so what is your point?
I'm curious. At what level is it necessary to actually have gold?Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »What I DO know is that the price of gold will keep going up, since high levels will keep paying. As this goes on, new players will join the game, realize they'll never be able to afford it, and just leave the game.
Bingo. Assuming Gold prices are cyclical (as demand comes and goes depending on what Gold can buy), it will still rise simply due to an increase in coin and inflation.potassium168 wrote: »Doesn't matter what you think or what you do. Gold prices are governed by how much you value your coins.
The value of your coins is governed by how much is created (coin rewards, selling to npc) and how much of it leaves the game (teleport cost, buying from npc).
The solution, as for many MMOs, is to find a money sink.
In the case of PW, the two obvious sinks are Genies (effectively costs coin to recharge) and the acceleration on flying mounts. You might say the Genies were introduced with anti-inflationary intentions in mind.0 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »It's not just the price of gold that will go up. The cost of pretty much everything will go up from gear to DQ. Everything.
On Delphi, a server that is much older than any server here has the prices of gold around 650k, and those ultimate subs are around 150k, twice what it is here. Fashion isn't nominally between 200k and up, it's nominally above 1 million. While there is some below 1 million, a large bulk of what is in cat shops isn't. A lot of other gear has also risen in price as well, but the biggest drawback to the gold price increase is if you make a mistake somewhere with your stats, you either live with it until much higher levels, buy Zen, or re-roll.
So, it doesn't just affect boutique items, it affects everything.
Sounds like a nightmare economy b:shockedb:shockedb:shocked
That's not gunna happen with LC, is it? b:sad[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
FedTehNoob - Lost City wrote: »Sounds like a nightmare economy b:shockedb:shockedb:shocked
That's not gunna happen with LC, is it? b:sad
I don't really know, but if it does, it should be a long time before it happens, hopefully.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Mer_Lina - Sanctuary wrote: »Not really. As a prior post points out, as players get higher in levels their in-game cash flow also increases. As the average level of the player base increases, the amount of in-game cash also increases along with it. It's just part of the game. Think back, when you where in your 10's and 20's, getting 100k was a pain. But onces you hit your 60's and 70's, 100k is easier to make. Plain and simple.
Not necessarily, I noticed as i lvled up, I make more money but then I also noticed I had to spend more also. To grind you need a heiro...for most classes, then repair bills. You need to save up to buy good gear. Sure you earn more money as you lvl up, but then there are bigger costs you have to pay for.
Not saying veno's are op but I wanted to add that you are a veno, i know my 68 veno is no comparsene, but I earn a lot of money on my veno. I would say that everything i make i can save away except 23k for my crazy stones. My armor doesnt need to be repaired...rarely and same with my weapon. I dont have a herc or nix so raising the loyalty is simple and cheap to replace. Anyway getting off topic...i guess what i mean to say is that gaining money is different for different classes.
And some people are too impatient (like me) and want their gold right away, which is why they buy at silly prices.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
eatswithspoons "*roll eyes* real money for virtual property? That's definitely not allowed"
Lol what?0 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »It's not just the price of gold that will go up. The cost of pretty much everything will go up from gear to DQ. Everything.
On Delphi, a server that is much older than any server here has the prices of gold around 650k, and those ultimate subs are around 150k, twice what it is here. Fashion isn't nominally between 200k and up, it's nominally above 1 million. While there is some below 1 million, a large bulk of what is in cat shops isn't. A lot of other gear has also risen in price as well, but the biggest drawback to the gold price increase is if you make a mistake somewhere with your stats, you either live with it until much higher levels, buy Zen, or re-roll.
So, it doesn't just affect boutique items, it affects everything.
this is why i moved to pwi lol0 -
DarkYin - Dreamweaver wrote: »You mean the Republicans who reduced laws and oversight over the markets? This is related to economists, how? Economists know that raising taxes can help the economy, depending on the cycle. Good luck seeing it actually happen. If politicians actually listened to people rather than "stay the course" regardless of information, the last few years would have been different.
This doesn't contradict my point at all.
The point was that "permanent boycott" works, "delay purchase" does absolutely nothing.
I'm curious. At what level is it necessary to actually have gold?
Bingo. Assuming Gold prices are cyclical (as demand comes and goes depending on what Gold can buy), it will still rise simply due to an increase in coin and inflation.
The solution, as for many MMOs, is to find a money sink.
In the case of PW, the two obvious sinks are Genies (effectively costs coin to recharge) and the acceleration on flying mounts. You might say the Genies were introduced with anti-inflationary intentions in mind.
Actually it all started with the democrats,go back to clinton thats where problems originated from,i'll leave it up some knowledgeable random to explain if they can be bothered,i can't.
Clue,had something to do with housing markets.Quit 100%...and surprised my forum account wasn't banned...yet0 -
MentalEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »Actually it all started with the democrats,go back to clinton thats where problems originated from,i'll leave it up some knowledgeable random to explain if they can be bothered,i can't.
Clue,had something to do with housing markets.
Oh, no please stop while you're ahead. I escape to a Perfect World, only to find that politics and taxes (auction house) are still rampant b:cryb:cryb:cry[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
FedTehNoob - Lost City wrote: »Oh, no please stop while you're ahead. I escape to a Perfect World, only to find that politics and taxes (auction house) are still rampant b:cryb:cryb:cry
Ok b:victoryQuit 100%...and surprised my forum account wasn't banned...yet0 -
140K-170K on DW b:cryBratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »...people sell gold at 130to 140k0 -
I gotta agree with Witch... This is keeping gold prices high, and if gold is hard to sell, then PWI is making less money off of card sales. >.>
This sounds like contradiction to me than anything else if gold is hard to get ppl will buy it.Originally Posted by DarkYin
You mean the Republicans who reduced laws and oversight over the markets? This is related to economists, how? Economists know that raising taxes can help the economy, depending on the cycle. Good luck seeing it actually happen. If politicians actually listened to people rather than "stay the course" regardless of information, the last few years would have been different
This is actually the opposite by lowring taxes you are helping the economy not hurting it.Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.0 -
If I know you will pay 140k for one gold then why would I ask a lower price?
Society as a whole are a greedy lazy, impatient bunch who want everything NOW with little to no effort on their part.
Is it really so wrong for me to exploit that human weakness to my advantage?
Who is worse, me that takes advantage of your weakness, or you for not taking the effort to raise that money on your own as I did.
I made my first mill just selling low level mats to others, same things that were there for everyone to stop and pick up just as I did. Big thanks to all who bought from me or one of my alts.
Make your own gold and sell it for the 110k some think it should go for. I will gladly buy it.0 -
I would prefer consistent, stable, low as possible prices, as I'm sure most consumers would. But to sellers, sales seem to be the impetus, to get buyers to open there wallets. In the long run i don't think that sales will make any more money but it looks good in the short term on paper.
Sales may work in the grocery market were a competing product is a few feet away and you have some overstock. With a MMORPG i believe annoying sales make you loose more customer than you gain in profit from those who remain to buy.
Also, once i see that you are having sales and increase percentages on ZEN recharge, i will never spend money when its regular price. So i don't spend more, all it does is change the moment i decide to spend. In fact i may spend less cause ill just do without when its not on sale, therefore using less product.
I quit the last MMORPG because it became all about gimmicks and i felt that equaled poor management of game. This game is now appears to be falling into the same pattern. This makes me tend to try to spend even less money because i don't want to invest money in a game i will more than likely quit due to gimmick frustration.
As far as what it does to the economy i voted i don't care. I doesnt ruin economy, just makes it much more complex and changing.
Its also may make hoarders cry when what the hoarding goes on sale. That part i like about the sales. HAHAHAA0 -
Actually, the problem goes back to the Neolithic period. The germination of institutionalised concepts of status and ownership are the precursors of the flowering of the sick blossom under discussion. By contrast, the post glacial mesolithic families wandering around their set routes in an encultured landscape were not polluted by such behaviours. Chief Laughs-A-Lot is less likely to economically **** you over when Chief Laughs-A-Lot is your uncle.0
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Aldryami - Sanctuary wrote: »Actually, the problem goes back to the Neolithic period. The germination of institutionalised concepts of status and ownership are the precursors of the flowering of the sick blossom under discussion. By contrast, the post glacial mesolithic families wandering around their set routes in an encultured landscape were not polluted by such behaviours. Chief Laughs-A-Lot is less likely to economically **** you over when Chief Laughs-A-Lot is your uncle.
That is true, if any party thought there were ripped off the other party would find themselves with a spear through their hearts.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
I'll be a knowledgeable random. Reagan. Learn your own country's history, buddy. Does "Reaganomics", his supply-side economic policies, sound familiar? I'm not American, I don't give a flying pancake about your politics, but I am an economist, and I can see a failed economic policy when I see it (especially when there is consensus amongst the global community that it messed up). Deregulation started with Reagan, not Bush or Clinton. This isn't a political thing - Bush (a Republican) spent most of his first term cleaning up after Reagan.MentalEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »Actually it all started with the democrats,go back to clinton thats where problems originated from,i'll leave it up some knowledgeable random to explain if they can be bothered,i can't.
Clue,had something to do with housing markets.
The housing markets is economically a small part of the picture. The problem was the lack of regulation of the people funding it. Does issuing a loan, then treating what that loan would give you as money you already have, and issuing more loans off that (and so on) sound reasonable to you? Or deliberately issuing mortgages to people who shouldn't qualify, splitting that up and selling it off (derivative market) sound reasonable to you? Of course not, but it happened - Greed.
The reason they got away with it was because there weren't regulations and oversights in place.
People are greedy **** (see this thread's discussion), and in real life, the only way to counter that is by imposing penalties on such behavior. (Ex: It's illegal, and you get thrown in prison with Bubba.)
Housing was severely overpriced, fueled by the imaginary future money from these people. It all comes down to a lack of regulation. (I harp about regulations since this is related to my career and something I'm getting certified in - in every company I've worked for, we have to make sure everything is aboveboard and legal. Which is why the shady **** that smacked down the global economy pisses me off, since Canada has regulations in place and this **** didn't happen, but we got hit anyways.)
I did not say lowering taxes hurt the economy. I said that an economist knows that rising taxes can help the economy, depending on where we are in the cycle. Your gross oversimplification simply highlights the fact that you aren't an economist. b:chuckleMystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »This is actually the opposite by lowring taxes you are helping the economy not hurting it.
Taxes neither help not hurt the economy by themselves - it depends on a number of factors. Lowering taxes increases disposable income, and decreases government spending.
If this increases investment and consumption, then yes, the economy improves. Government spending falls, but Consumption and Investment rises, helping the economy develop.
However, in an environment like right now, people aren't spending. Saving percentages are higher than ever before, and business are not investing. They're consolidating and shutting down.
Lowering income taxes in such an environment will have a negligible increase in C or I while decreasing G considerably. Notice this is why every government today is currently spending money, and why any tax cuts you see are on consumption taxes, directly related to C or I. You only get a tax cut for actively spending - so you don't actually save money, you get more for your dollar.
Taxes in general are a tool, to control economic growth. Greedy people (ie. most people) take half that tool out of an administration's toolbox.
As I said, an economist knows rising taxes can be the perfect tool for a particular situation - not always. However, politics makes it unlikely that tool would be used.0 -
*stands up and clears throat* People listen..
It Is A GAME, dont bring politics and nonsense to a gaming forum, no good can come from it except arguments. No one shares the same views as everybody else. So simply, keep it to yourself.I R NO ALT >:O0 -
This is neither the time nor place to discuss politics and who is at fault for what.
inb4threaddevolvesintoflamewar[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »This is neither the time nor place to discuss politics and who is at fault for what.
inb4threaddevolvesintoflamewar
We don't even have to wait for that!rules of conduct wrote:12. No inappropriate discussion types.
Inappropriate discussion-types include, but are not limited to, the following discussion types: Politics, Religious issues, Abortion debates, etc. Common sense should dictate what is appropriate or not.
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In this game we do not have "outside interference", such as we have in the RL, therefore, the principles of economics work much more at their purer form.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0
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IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »So would removing obsolete subsedies that cost us hundreds of billions of dollars... But nobody will ever touch those because if they do, they will not get re-elected.
The sure way to get something mess up and broken is to get the government involved.... Their number one concern is to be re-elected, and that, most often than not, means NOT doing the right thing.
I like how u listen.I R NO ALT >:O0 -
MyNameIsPooh - Harshlands wrote: »I like how u listen.
I did, Find the quote anywhere in the post..... Sometimes people are a little slow on the posts and other posts sneak in..... As if you never went afk in the middle of typing something.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »As if you never went afk in the middle of typing something.
actually, 100% honesty, I have never gone afk while typing something in forums.I R NO ALT >:O0 -
MyNameIsPooh - Harshlands wrote: »actually, 100% honesty, I have never gone afk while typing something in forums.
Sometimes I post from work, so sometimes I have no choice but to go afk for periods of time.... I hate when work gets in the way of posting...Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Sometimes I post from work, so sometimes I have no choice but to go afk for periods of time.... I hate when work gets in the way of posting...
I lub my job
*at work atm* very slow these days.. (can you tell?) I R NO ALT >:O0 -
MyNameIsPooh - Harshlands wrote: »I lub my job *at work atm* very slow these days.. (can you tell?)
Today is started bad (as in had to go afk for almost 1 1/2 hours earlier due to lots to do), thankfuly, now it is mellowing out.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
lol lower depths'd >=D0
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