Destroying the economy?
Comments
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Viper_girl - Heavens Tear wrote: »There is a storage cost associated with holding things.
1) having to buy more inventory or bank space (or the inconvenience of multiple alts)
2) the fact that most people can't afford to sit on millions of coins worth of stuff. I often see people dumping their "cache" at below market to get coin/gold quickly.
3) The risk that another sale will come along and destroy your cache.
The bonus is no different than a surprise Freebie you get in a RL sale. There is a value to it and it is eventually priced by the market. It doesn't mess anything up.
But since you can make free alts, there is no cost to store mats/items if you choose to.
I do agree that people get anxious or desperate and want to sell items fast. However that is their choice, the game has no cost penalty for holding on to them. (Bikinis being the exception.. I still think they should had added the lepard and tiger print bikini sets to boutique and leave the solid color ones as DT prizes only).
The bonus is a huge thing.
If you talk with the charm sellers, you will see that not a single one is selling the package, they only sell the charms and keep the eggs. Therefore what they really want is the egg, and they just passing the charms to recoup some of their costs. <
The freebie is a HUGE thing...Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »But since you can make free alts, there is no cost to store mats/items if you choose to.
The bonus is a huge thing.
If you talk with the charm sellers, you will see that not a single one is selling the package, they only sell the charms and keep the eggs. Therefore what they really want is the egg, and they just passing the charms to recoup some of their costs. <
The freebie is a HUGE thing...
I've seen a lot selling both the charm and the egg.
While there isn't a cost to store them in game, thereis a cost out of game because it requires using a second computer to do so.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »I've seen a lot selling both the charm and the egg.
While there isn't a cost to store them in game, thereis a cost out of game because it requires using a second computer to do so.
Then they make profit too..
Selling charms 5x300k(1.5mil = 15 gold) + egg for 400k... So 400k profit...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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My Hercules, VenLooki's Secret, has been born!0 -
Even at 150k for one gold, the price is not that high.
On another version I played, after 6 months one gold was selling 450k to 500k... So when I see it still below 150k here, I don't find it that high.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks Brit for the sig b:laugh0 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »I've seen a lot selling both the charm and the egg.
While there isn't a cost to store them in game, thereis a cost out of game because it requires using a second computer to do so.
On your magenta comment.
You do not need a second computer, you just have to log off your main and log in your storage character.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
VenLooki - Heavens Tear wrote: »Then they make profit too..
Selling charms 5x300k(1.5mil = 15 gold) + egg for 400k... So 400k profit...
Edited (lol@me <.<): It's not that simple. You have to go by the current market prices for gold, and not basing it off of some number that doesn't reflect the current market prices.
If you sell the egg for the prices I've seen (285k-385k), you make something like 21k (which is slightly below the gold selling fee for 120k/gold) selling at 300k which is the barest of profit margins @285k/egg, and 100k more at 385k. Unless you sell the charms higher than 300k you will not see that mythical profit margin of 400k which is achievable selling the charms at 350k when gold is at 120k/gold. If it goes higher the profit margin shrinks, and if it drops the profit margin goes up.
As the price of gold drops lower, the seller will be better off selling the charms/egg than the gold itself.IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »On your magenta comment.
You do not need a second computer, you just have to log off your main and log in your storage character.
If you are using one account, and not using the mail system to transfer items, then there is the risk of losing the item(s), or the overhead of added time getting to a location that is relatively safe from someone picking up the dropped items you wanted to transfer. No matter how you cut it, or try to look at it, there is a cost involved whether it is a hidden cost or a known cost.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Edited (lol@me <.<): It's not that simple. You have to go by the current market prices for gold, and not basing it off of some number that doesn't reflect the current market prices.
If you sell the egg for the prices I've seen (285k-385k), you make something like 21k (which is slightly below the gold selling fee for 120k/gold) selling at 300k which is the barest of profit margins @285k/egg, and 100k more at 385k. Unless you sell the charms higher than 300k you will not see that mythical profit margin of 400k which is achievable selling the charms at 350k when gold is at 120k/gold. If it goes higher the profit margin shrinks, and if it drops the profit margin goes up.
As the price of gold drops lower, the seller will be better off selling the charms/egg than the gold itself.
If you are using one account, and not using the mail system to transfer items, then there is the risk of losing the item(s), or the overhead of added time getting to a location that is relatively safe from someone picking up the dropped items you wanted to transfer. No matter how you cut it, or try to look at it, there is a cost involved whether it is a hidden cost or a known cost.
I totally agree. I came to the conclusion on HT that the Charm Pack Sale is not a great moneymaker for those buying directly with Gold. You would make much more money buying charms from catshops at 300-330K and reselling when it hits 380-450K.
I think the Jolly Old Jones event is the only guaranteed huge moneymaker.0 -
That is because those people do not care for the charms..... they want the egg to get the Lion. They are basicaly trying to not loose too much money trying to get the Lion. They sell pretty much at cost, than buy gold, and repeat. I really cannot phantom someone buying 75 gold charm packages for personal use... and turn around and sell each charm at 300k. They are not trying to make a profit, they are just trying to break even.
If they were trying to turn a profit, they would do what you said.
Also, some people just do not care, they are using mom's/dad's credit card, so it is free money for them.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
on this post all i see is a bunch of kids whining about ingame prices. Your not spending your cash on the game itself, unlike other players, and it's free to play.
I've seen many players complain about prices but it's not so bad compared to what i've seen before.
i will start understanding your pain once the gold prices triple over night, but untill then try abusing these events or else you'll get abused by them.0 -
The last MMO I played got to a point where they had such extreme sales and so very often (every week a new sale and 2 rare sales every day!), it actually turned what were supposed to be "rare" items into everybody having literally thousands. Then when the gms saw it was getting out of hand, they did a recall on all those items, making them suddenly almost extinct and worth millions. To make up for the money they were not getting from those sales anymore, they started selling armors with the "you name your own seals" deal... turning the game into a ptp because these seals were not attainable in the real game.
Translated to this game it would be like having all armors and accessories with 3x reduce channeling by 9% or increase attack speed by .2
It killed the economy after that to a point where everybody I knew on the game just left.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kuroblood - Dreamweaver wrote: »on this post all i see is a bunch of kids whining about ingame prices. Your not spending your cash on the game itself, unlike other players, and it's free to play.
I've seen many players complain about prices but it's not so bad compared to what i've seen before.
i will start understanding your pain once the gold prices triple over night, but untill then try abusing these events or else you'll get abused by them.
What your saying is as long as prices are still low, you dont care but once the economy does shift, & im thinking in a negative way, then your gonna care?
This thread is simply to try to figure out how the sales are gonna effect everyone both in the short and long run.0 -
Kuroblood - Dreamweaver wrote: »on this post all i see is a bunch of kids whining about ingame prices. Your not spending your cash on the game itself, unlike other players, and it's free to play.
I've seen many players complain about prices but it's not so bad compared to what i've seen before.
i will start understanding your pain once the gold prices triple over night, but untill then try abusing these events or else you'll get abused by them.
Which post? It helps when refering to a post to quote it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Sales are fine but unless they do something to drive down the price of gold, it will eventually drive new players away from the game when they realize they'll never be able to afford anything.
I play Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon in attack mode! And 1 face-down magic/trap.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
I'm economy-stupid, what strategies could be involved without directly imposing a limit would it require to drive gold prices back down with the current system?0
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Jrudora - Lost City wrote: »I'm economy-stupid, what strategies could be involved without directly imposing a limit would it require to drive gold prices back down with the current system?
Decrease the demand for gold. As long as people buy the gold at the price it is being listed, it will not come down in price. Once price of gold reaches a point where people stop paying for it, than it will start coming down until it reaches a price where people start buying again.
However, I would expect price of gold to keep going up for quite some time, since the population of the servers is getting higher level, their disposable in-game income is also increasing, therefore people will be more willing to spend a little more for the gold then when they were lower level.
In all the games I have played that allowed for gold to be sold in game, that also happened, as the majority of the population leveled up, the prices of gold kept creeping up as well. You can also see that with other commodities in-game, where prices slowly creep up as more and more people level up.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Given a company's decision, to make sure they get a constant flow or better income then, what strategies then could the company use to decrease the demand for gold, without compromising their income, to decrease the price of gold?0
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Thats the problem right there. How can that be done? I don't know.
What I DO know is that the price of gold will keep going up, since high levels will keep paying. As this goes on, new players will join the game, realize they'll never be able to afford it, and just leave the game.
As the higher levels leave the game, as will happen, due to the high gold prices, new players will still not join, leading to the end of PWI.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »Thats the problem right there. How can that be done? I don't know.
What I DO know is that the price of gold will keep going up, since high levels will keep paying. As this goes on, new players will join the game, realize they'll never be able to afford it, and just leave the game.
As the higher levels leave the game, as will happen, due to the high gold prices, new players will still not join, leading to the end of PWI.
because, this has happened in all the other versions of PW, right?Less QQ more Pew Pewb:thanks
"Don't argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience."
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Jrudora - Lost City wrote: »Given a company's decision, to make sure they get a constant flow or better income then, what strategies then could the company use to decrease the demand for gold, without compromising their income, to decrease the price of gold?
If you start messing up with free market you get very nasty problems.
There is nothing they can do short of forcing a price cap on gold or lowering all drops by a factor of 10 and make mats spawn only once a day. Than in-game prices go up alot, which will mean people will have far less money, which will mean they will not be able to afford the gold at current prices, which would drive prices down.
However, that would probably also kill the game, since it would become too expensive for new players to afford anything in-game and would make it impossible for people to get higher level gear in any resonable amount of time and money.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
On a side note, IceJazmin, your signature is awesome. =P
On topic:
I love sales. I think the target of sales is to increase money income, and that is quite successful. I know a few times where when I see a sale, I end up charging zen just for it.
After sales end, gold usually drops again to roughly the median between the gold prices before the sale, and the gold prices during the sale.
If theres no sales for a while, gold does go down ever so slightly.
I think its okay the way it is, especially with how much coins are given out from owning lands anyways.0 -
They could always give some sort of prize to players that sell gold cheaper as a contest.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Jrudora - Lost City wrote: »On a side note, IceJazmin, your signature is awesome. =P
On topic:
I love sales. I think the target of sales is to increase money income, and that is quite successful. I know a few times where when I see a sale, I end up charging zen just for it.
After sales end, gold usually drops again to roughly the median between the gold prices before the sale, and the gold prices during the sale.
If theres no sales for a while, gold does go down ever so slightly.
I think its okay the way it is, especially with how much coins are given out from owning lands anyways.
Thank you.
Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
I think it has been forgotten that inflation is not selective. As the price of gold creeps ever upwards, so does the price of everything else. Therefore, if people are willing to pay a little more for gold, they're willing to pay a little bit more for everything else.
The gold market is kind of... special and I've noticed the increase in price of "everything" else lags behind the increase in gold price, but not by a huge amount. So the idea that PWI will cease to exist due to rising gold prices is, to be quite honest, baloney. And who likes baloney anyway? I'd rather have a nice salami sandwich. With provolone and hot mustard.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
You said it yourself. As gold prices go up, so does everything else. As a new player, would you want to start this game and see that any equipment thats worth using will cost you 10 mil + for level 30 stuff, and 600k per gold? I doubt you'd stay long.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
They can sell their stuff for more too.
It works both ways.
Furthermore, there is kind of a population limit to the price of anything, really. There's only so much coin able to be gained legitimately in any certain amount of time, that alone will cap the economy. It's rather like having to back treasury bills with gold.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »You said it yourself. As gold prices go up, so does everything else. As a new player, would you want to start this game and see that any equipment thats worth using will cost you 10 mil + for level 30 stuff, and 600k per gold? I doubt you'd stay long.
What caused that on Delphi? Immortal controlling all the land sans three?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Doesn't matter what you think or what you do. Gold prices are governed by how much you value your coins.
The value of your coins is governed by how much is created (coin rewards, selling to npc) and how much of it leaves the game (teleport cost, buying from npc).
If more coins are created compared to the amount that leaves the game then inflation will occur making you coins worthless. (Assuming the population on the server remains the same.)
So if you are able to created coins at a ridiculous rate say each mob kill drops 10,000 coins, but pot cost and teleports cost 1 coin, then you essentially end up with lots of low valued coins making your gold prices soar.
Bottomline, coin has to leave the game otherwise they will become more and more worthless.0 -
BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »What you are forgetting is it is up to us as a community to set prices. For instance, people sell gold at 130to 140k because you are paying it. QUIT paying that and the prices will drop. Same with everything else. It comes down to supply and demand.
You can't blame people really. Sales set a new price for gold because of it's value.
For example. Say they have a half price orb sale. Orb prices are going to return to normal eventually, so buying a huge stock of orbs will net you a nice future profit if you invest well. So everyone who realizes this goes to buy gold. Instantly there's a huge demand and naturally competition over gold. Players will become willing to pay as high an amount as they can go to that will still net some form of profit. And that's what the value of gold becomes set to.
Of course, you could ignore it and buy nothing, but that's basically turning down free coin, you end up poor and the players who bought regardless end up rich.0 -
_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »You can't blame people really. Sales set a new price for gold because of it's value.
For example. Say they have a half price orb sale. Orb prices are going to return to normal eventually, so buying a huge stock of orbs will net you a nice future profit if you invest well. So everyone who realizes this goes to buy gold. Instantly there's a huge demand and naturally competition over gold. Players will become willing to pay as high an amount as they can go to that will still net some form of profit. And that's what the value of gold becomes set to.
Of course, you could ignore it and buy nothing, but that's basically turning down free coin, you end up poor and the players who bought regardless end up rich.
Meaning that all the money in the game is being drained far more quickly than normal, making all other items luxuries.
So PWI > than player economy.0 -
Not really. As a prior post points out, as players get higher in levels their in-game cash flow also increases. As the average level of the player base increases, the amount of in-game cash also increases along with it. It's just part of the game. Think back, when you where in your 10's and 20's, getting 100k was a pain. But onces you hit your 60's and 70's, 100k is easier to make. Plain and simple.Hell_rayzer - Heavens Tear wrote: »Meaning that all the money in the game is being drained far more quickly than normal, making all other items luxuries.
So PWI > than player economy.
Also keep in mind, if their is to much in-game coins floating around. The value of in-game coins will go down. People with a lot of coins will pay whatever prices they want for items and prices of not only Gold but other items will continue to rise.
End result: every time in-game coin is taken out of the game, it keep the economy stable and values more constant.
On another note: As prices of gold goes up, it gets harder for lower level players to easily obtain items from boutique. That is understood, but it will not drive them away from the game. Since this game is setup so you don't really need these items to play. All boutique items in effect are luxury items and not necessities.0
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