Which would you pick?

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

If you'd gathered 100 of each warsoul fragment(through competition, farming, w/e) and finally had to pick a warsoul weapon, which would you pick?

Single Butterfly(Glaive), +63MagAtk x4, -6%chan, +50AtkLvl
Attack range: 1091-1637

Tyreseus Power(Pataka), crit+2%, -3%chan, +615HP, +50AtkLvl
Attack range: 955-1773

Mysto Caster(Magic Sword), +3%DamRed, +16-18Mag, +16-18Vit, +50AtkLvl
Attack Range: 1228-1500

Frostburn - Lost City

Mysto casther for the looks and the better overall bonuses.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

My pick too, nice stable damage and it's the best looking, amiright?

Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear

Butterfly has the same or higher minimum attack compared to Mysto (even with the +18 magic), and a much higher maximum. On average, Butterfly +0 is equal to what, Mysto +6? And in exchange we get 3% damage reduce and 170 hp? No thanks.

Single Butterfly all the way.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

I've checked when I add my stats that +1MAG adds 10 base magic attack(that means with no weapon equipted)

so Butterfly gets +253=1344-ish(roughly worked out)
Mysto gets +160-+180=1408(I know this isn't what will happen, not sure of the calculations)

So IF the difference is actually 70 magic attack then you'd only need to refine to +3(and if you had a warsoul, you would right?)

Although the channeling is attractive for that weapon.

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Butterfly has the same or higher minimum attack compared to Mysto (even with the +18 magic), and a much higher maximum. On average, Butterfly +0 is equal to what, Mysto +6? And in exchange we get 3% damage reduce and 170 hp? No thanks.

Single Butterfly all the way.

Allthough you are right, those warsoul already do so much damage, that it doesnt matter anymore. I think after 80 years of farming with blood and tears, you can, for the very first time in PW, choose something that looks the best instead of what actually is the best.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

That sword has to be the best looking weapon in the game. Also has anyone ever wondered why they have a level 80 requirement?

Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've checked when I add my stats that +1MAG adds 10 base magic attack(that means with no weapon equipted)

so Butterfly gets +253=1344-ish(roughly worked out)
Mysto gets +160-+180=1408(I know this isn't what will happen, not sure of the calculations)

So IF the difference is actually 70 magic attack then you'd only need to refine to +3(and if you had a warsoul, you would right?)

Although the channeling is attractive for that weapon.

Oh sure, +1Mag adds +10 to your base magic attack (the number on your character screen), but +1 magic attack adds about +5 to your base magic attack. Try it yourself, take off a ring and put it back on if you don't believe me.

And let's be honest, any warsoul in the game is going to be +12. The stats of each wep (aside from the +50 atk lvl) are bonuses on top of that, not the defining features.

And if you put in the time to get a warsoul wep, it's not to look good. It's to one-shot catapult barbs and everyone else too. If you just want one to look cool, go play on a private server where they are easy to get.

Mizorie - Lost City

I dont know why you guys are picking mystro caster. The glaive is far superior to all of them for a wiz. A mages job is to deal **** loads of dmg and the butterfly is the strongest out of the 3. With all 4 of its matk mods, it add 252 more atk power. It also has a -chan mod. All of its mods point to mages.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

Using PWI calc

Mysto caster(on pure lvl80 wizard):6161-7442

Single Butterfly(on same wizard):6446-8919

Can I change my choice? o.o

Cholla - Harshlands

Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Butterfly has the same or higher minimum attack compared to Mysto (even with the +18 magic), and a much higher maximum. On average, Butterfly +0 is equal to what, Mysto +6? And in exchange we get 3% damage reduce and 170 hp? No thanks.

Single Butterfly all the way.

Well, inexperienced little me also picked single butterfly. But maybe I should not have?

I believe mysto caster would also increase my pdef by almost 2% and would increase my mdef by almost 4% because of how my attributes interact with my defenses. And of course, mysto would also increase my regen rate slightly. Big deal, right? But, but, but...mysto caster would also increase my magic pool size which might matter, when combined with wellspring quaff and manifest virtue.

Fortunately, I will not be making one any time soon...

Anemone - Harshlands

The problem with the arguing mage weapons is that it's not just the damage range that you see that affects your own magic attack range. It also has a formula. The pataka gets owned by the formula difference, but glaives usually don't.

In this case it does indeed outpower it on every level, so the Butterfly gets my vote too for being made to do what mages are meant to do. The Mysto Caster is still pretty to look at though, and is a fairly balanced weapon. (Here's the glaive).

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Witch are those numbers just the weapon equipped or a fully equipped 8x wizard? If it just the weapon, those are some pretty impressive numbers. i want the glaive its pretty!

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

Those were the numbers with just a weapon and a level 80 pure build(with 52 strength), pretty damn spectacular.

Also a picture of Tyreseus for balance, ClickMeh.

If anyones wondering where me and Anemone got the pics from it's Ecatomb's weapon page

The calculations were from http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/(harder to use than Ecatomb's build page but much more indepth)

Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear

Anemone - Harshlands wrote: »

The problem with the arguing mage weapons is that it's not just the damage range that you see that affects your own magic attack range. It also has a formula. The pataka gets owned by the formula difference, but glaives usually don't.

Care to elaborate?

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Witch can you equip some armor etc that a wizard might wear at that lvl? i would but my cellphone is being stupid x) p.s. i want that armor

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

Not sure what you meant exactly but, fully buffed and equipped Mr. Mysto Caster has:

8180-9698

Mr. Butterfly gets:

8633-11614(Holy ****)

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

giving a warsoul to a wiz is like giving a nuke to osama bin laden^^

Anemone - Harshlands

Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Care to elaborate?

Well, it will be tl;dr.. but sure.

It's difficult to explain, because I don't know the exact damage formulas or how they work. What I do know is the result of them, which is the matk range difference. It is very easily testable, too. Works best with a magic sword vs pataka, though once I first messed with it I tested wands and glaives too.

I figured this out mostly by accident back in my LC days when I couldn't tell whether the FPoB (52 legendary pataka, woohoo for PK drops =P) or the AA (TT60) would be better to use 'til 70.

For comparison's sake:
Fine Pataka of Bodhi (lv52) +4 (+74 matk and +125 HP and +160 MP)
412-714
vs.
Ancient Arbor (lv60) +0 (+54matk)
511-624

Looking at that, you'd expect the pataka's damage range to be perhaps a few hundred matk lower for the low end, and a few hundred higher for the high end. I expected that, anyway. The difference I got was as follows:

FPoB+4
1.9k - 4k
vs.
AA+0
2.9k - 3.6k

This shows that the low end (99 attack base difference on the weapon) suffers far more than the high end (90 attack base difference). If you want to bring the matk bonuses into question, the FPoB should have still had a much larger high end to make up for the low end. This was tested with relatively high +mag stats on the other gear, so if those ranges look high it's because they kind of are for level 60.

Conclusion: This means that there is something other than the obvious at work, regardless of what it may be. The numbers will change with more or less total magic stat, because how much matk each point of magic gives you is based on your weapon's attack. That's about all I can tell ya without theorizing. =P

Forp - Heavens Tear

honest to god, who cares? +200 damage to something doing 50% more damage all the time isn't going to change ANYTHING(200 points of damage isn't anything anyways. considering that's less than 50 after pvp rules).

just choose which looks better.

Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear

Forp once again demonstrates his ignorance. Be quiet when the adults are talking, please.

Thanks, anemone! I'll have to look into that for sure.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

Wouldn't it be fun if one day everyone 80+ was given a warsoul(with a 24hr timer) as part of an event. That'd be fun.

3 levels to go...

I swear people have to drag me away from forges otherwise I'm there for an hour. Lunar Glade rings, TT99 armour, Legendary gear b:laugh

Forp - Heavens Tear

ignorance? because you think the blues on a weapon that's going to deal unimaginable damage anyways matters? +200 points in pve wont change anything.

Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear

Forp, do you seriously not know how Magic Attack works? Seriously? Go die in a fire. b:cute

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Forp, do you seriously not know how Magic Attack works? Seriously? Go die in a fire. b:cute

I actually agree with Forp.

Burnout - Harshlands

Forp, +200 m. attack is at least 1000 more average base damage, and very likely more for a lvl 100 mage (can't imagine a lvl 80 mage with one of those).

Single Butterfly's m. attack bonus would add over 1.3k in base damage, adding 400+ pvp damage to something like gush is still pretty major, for a gush that hits 4000 it would be 10% more damage b:shocked

Forp - Heavens Tear

1000 more damage? who the **** cares? if you hit 4k before, you'll be hitting 6k just from the +atk level it has. the 1k pve damage and 200 pvp damage wont make a damned difference.

jesus christ.

Sorbik - Lost City

Forp, you forget that the magic attack values are amplified by skills.

Ie base matk (your extra 1.3k at lvl 80 from the mods) + 400% of weapon damage (another 400% of those mods) + some raw value

Then you factor in crits... it really does add a ton of damage.

Look at it this way, unequip one of your rings, it probably gives around 64~ matk. At your level, and as pure con you'll lose around 300 matk? Well if you're lvl 100 with pure int that 64~ matk will be amplified exponentially. Basically imagine you're wearing 4 extra rings...

Forp is saying that the extra damage is superfluous since they all have a +50 atk level, which makes everything else negligible..
While I can see where he's coming from, having gush do 1k more damage in PvP is a really big difference. To be honest, if you really wanted the extra con from the sword, you can restat some int points into con, and still end out with more matk. The 3% pdef reduction is tricky, but since wizards can manage 10k~ pdef full buffed, i really think this is negligible.

(Doesn't preduction only factor in AFTER your pdef? As in 50% pdef of 1000 damage -> 500 damage, then it reduces that 500 by 3%?, not the entire 1000 damage by 53%?)

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

Wizards can hit 4k? I can't remember hitting that low.(Except in sodding TT)

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

+50 attack lvl for PvP is massive. archers and wizards with warsoul > all other classes.

Cholla - Harshlands

I think sometimes extra damage does not matter -- damage matters when you need fewer spells to kill something but sometimes increasing damage does not help enough. Going from four skills to three skills takes a major change in damage, and going from three to two will be even harder.

So I can sort of see Forp's point of view.

However, I think some other issues also matter...