Douchebaggery contines...

Mosz - Heavens Tear

was i referring to that specific hop no to the shop that is named CHEAP_SUBS , thats scamming, first SS says CHEAP SUBS ffs

how is subs and healing orb at all similar?

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In neither of the screenshots posted did I see the shop name saying it was selling ULTIMATE subs, or even U subs.

I suppose every time someone talks about "subs" in your faction chat, you ask them to clarify if they're talking about ultimate substances, submarines, or whatnot?

For better or worse, "subs" is an accepted abbreviation for ultimate substances in the game. Trying to claim it's ok because the shop wasn't advertising "ultimate substances" (which wouldn't even fit in a cat shop name) is like trying to talk the judge into letting you off of a speeding ticket because the cop abbreviated your name from Deborah to Deb.

The LceTank screenshot I give some leeway to because it only says 65k. It's totally up to the buyer to conclude that it's ultimate substances from that. But he deserves a hard whack from the ban stick for trying to impersonate IceTank.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

was i referring to that specific hop no to the shop that is named CHEAP_SUBS , thats scamming, first SS says CHEAP SUBS ffs

how is subs and healing orb at all similar?

Exactly. Stop trying to cover up for the scammers. Shop name says subs 65k but its healing orbs that have the same icon. Blatantly intentional scam.

People say it only says "subs" in the name which proves nothing. Well think about this then:

Only 1 item in the game I'm aware of with sub in the name, Ultimate Substance
The healing orb happens to have the exact same icon
The healing orbs happen to be the exact same price they say subs are.
No one would sell subs for 65k at this point when they know they can get more for them.

You can't hide from all this evidence.

LceTank - Heavens Tear

i say ban all the scammers so the legitimate healing orb shops can make more money

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Go ahead and sell all the healing orbs you want, no one cares as long as you don't try to pass them off as ultimate substances.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

doesnt matter, the GM already said its not bannable, no use going on debating it lol.

Axemanek - Heavens Tear

I got scammed from this...before the thread was made and i lost 360k+
stupid scammers + damned lag = inevitable scam

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

LceTank - Heavens Tear wrote: »

im not trying to be anyone but myself so sorry
lvl 1 faction recruiting !

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=288781

is this also a violation of the grammer police ?

No, and unless you are trying to wreck the other character's rep, I doubt your name is actionable especially considering many of the good/decent/obvious names are already taken.

forsaken2134

yea, just because i like to overprice my healing orbs, JUST AROUND the forges, doesnt meean im trying to pass them off as subs. i never advertise them as subs, and yet people still buy them..

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

forsaken2134 wrote: »

yea, just because i like to overprice my healing orbs, JUST AROUND the forges, doesnt meean im trying to pass them off as subs. i never advertise them as subs, and yet people still buy them..

Actually, it does. Context means everything. You know people need U. Subs for crafting and check cat shops at the forge for them, and you know the orbs have the exact same icon, and you price them the same as subs. Your argument would hold water if you set your shop in the West District, but only by the thinnest of margins.

LceTank - Heavens Tear

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually, it does. Context means everything. You know people need U. Subs for crafting and check cat shops at the forge for them, and you know the orbs have the exact same icon, and you price them the same as subs. Your argument would hold water if you set your shop in the West District, but only by the thinnest of margins.

perhaps the gms could make a map and show where its legal to sell healing orbs

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

LceTank - Heavens Tear wrote: »

perhaps the gms could make a map and show where its legal to sell healing orbs

Perhaps you could show me where I wrote it was illegal to do what he was doing.

Muah - Heavens Tear

LceTank is just going to continue agruing with you considering it is he who put up the shop in a place where of course TT mats are used.

And i do find he is trying to impersonate the REAL IceTank considering he made a Faction named Triads just like the Original player.. thus that is the evidence.
And we all know who Triad is, now if it was a different "leader" and they used Triads maybe he could get away with it. But its too close to the player whom isn't LVL 1.

Axemanek - Heavens Tear

LoL i think LceTank is a little noobish dont you? xD

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Axemanek - Heavens Tear wrote: »

LoL i think LceTank is a little noobish dont you? xD

The things he does in the game and the fact that he argues for being allowed to deceive others in this fashion is evidence enough, I think, that the game would be better off without him. Scammers are parasites. They don't contribute anything to the gaming environment, they leech off of others. So there's nothing to lose by eliminating them, but much to gain.

It's PWI's game to run as they wish, and they may have technical reasons to consider this a non-bannable offense (it's a grey area, so I'm really surprised a GM posted a definite yes/no answer). But I should point out that if you don't do something about this sort of behavior, it degrades the company's revenue stream. People who get ripped off in this fashion get frustrated and are more likely to quit the game. People making money in this manner don't contribute to the economy - they don't grind for the money they get, they don't move items from people who'd NPC it to people who use it like legitimate cat shoppers do. So the game economy suffers as well, causing more people to get frustrated and quit. Your gaming population starts to shift towards a higher percentage of scammers vs. fewer legit players, which poisons the in-game atmosphere making for a less pleasant gaming experience.

In short, ignoring this sort of thing is bad for an MMO's business model. If there were something to gain by allowing it, the real world wouldn't have an FTC which cracks down on scams like this.

erethizon1

I wonder how many more people are being scammed now because of this thread. Before this thread, shops like this were relatively rare (this shop may have even been the only guy doing this). After this thread however, there are a ton of shops like this on every server with people getting scammed left and right (I heard a bunch of talk about it this evening including some by people that had fallen for it). This thread gave people a great idea for how to make money, in addition to trying to help some people avoid being taken advantage of. Since only the people that read the forum have learned about the scam (other than in-game shouts) the extra shops that are now up are causing more people to fall for it than ever.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

erethizon1 wrote: »

I wonder how many more people are being scammed now because of this thread. Before this thread, shops like this were relatively rare (this shop may have even been the only guy doing this). After this thread however, there are a ton of shops like this on every server with people getting scammed left and right

Unfortunately, since the GM said they won't ban for doing this, that's (1) the natural consequence of not banning, and (2) the only way for the playerbase to correct this behavior. Lots of scammers (or even people who don't normally scam) have to do it so that everyone becomes acutely aware of the scam, and are more careful to read descriptions before they buy.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Unfortunately, since the GM said they won't ban for doing this, that's (1) the natural consequence of not banning, and (2) the only way for the playerbase to correct this behavior. Lots of scammers (or even people who don't normally scam) have to do it so that everyone becomes acutely aware of the scam, and are more careful to read descriptions before they buy.

Has anyone made the suggestion in the suggestion forums to have items with the same icon changed so they don't have the same icon anymore? (was going to look, but was wondering ahead of time)

Illumminatti - Heavens Tear

question is, should we really feel remorse for the victims of these deceptions? is it their own fault for being ignorant and grabbing something without looking?

Well, well, I guess not everyone is as smart as you huh? Your doing an awsome job defending these jerkoffs, what does that say about you? To all those NOT defending the scammers, just watch yourselves out there.

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear

Seriously its not hard to put your mouse over what you intend to buy,and yeah you are actually bloody stupid if you just buy something assuming it to be something it isn't when the item description is right there for you to read.

Tanks scum for trying to scam people,and people are stupid for not checking what they are buying,the end.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Seriously its not hard to put your mouse over what you intend to buy,and yeah you are actually bloody stupid if you just buy something assuming it to be something it isn't when the item description is right there for you to read.

Tanks scum for trying to scam people,and people are stupid for not checking what they are buying,the end.

And if they have multiple items with the same icon clustered together that are not actually the same item?


How long is it going to take before it sinks in that it's a scam?


How long is it going to take before it sinks in that the pop-up description doesn't pop-up immediately, that there is a delay between mousing over the item, and the description popinng up?


How long is it going to take for it to sink in that the scammers are taking advantage of multiple items having the same icon, and the pop-up description delay?

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

douchebags ಥ_ಥ

Xenaaah - Heavens Tear

I went back and read the rules/policies. Seems to me scamming people is grounds for being banned. If you don't ban people for doing this then why ban other people for things like griefing or exploiting a bug?

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

Well since the GM said it's not bannable I'm sure even more scam shops are going to be made.

Good luck all and remember to LOOK before you buyb:bye

erethizon1

Xenaaah - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I went back and read the rules/policies. Seems to me scamming people is grounds for being banned. If you don't ban people for doing this then why ban other people for things like griefing or exploiting a bug?

The entire "scam" is based solely on having a misleading shop title. The title implies that the item for sale is an ultimate substance instead of a healing orb that looks just like it. However, when you mouse over the item it clearly says what it is. This only meets the definition of scam under the most loose sense of the word. If this were bannable, then, in order to keep things fair, all misleading shop titles would have to banned which would make for a very bad situation. This is especially true when you consider that the extremely limited number of characters that can be used to make a shop title makes it hard to give people an accurate idea of what is being sold. Many misleading titles are done purely by accident just because they could not make the title long enough to clearly identify what they were selling.

Now having said that, I do believe that this shop owner was intentionally trying to mislead people, but you cannot prove intent. Thus all this individual was actually guilty of was having a misleading shop title, which thankfully is not grounds for a ban. The last thing I want is to log on one day to find my character banned because my title did not match what I was selling closely enough. Granted, I feel I do a good job of accurately describing what I am selling, but I would not want to discover that my title was misleading to some and my character was banned accordingly.

We all just need to understand that the title of a cat shop is there to get you to look in the cat shop. In many cases it gives you a good idea of what is for sale. In other cases (like when they shop is named "good stuff") it does not. No matter what the shop title says you need to mouse over every item that you are considering buying to make sure it is what you want and is being sold for a price you want to pay. This "scam" only exists because so many players are unwilling to do that, which I frankly find amazing. It is hard to believe that anyone would buy anything out of a cat shop without mousing over the item to see if it was what they wanted at a price they wanted to pay.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

how about this
its agaisnt rules to have a name like GMMosz correct? well i dont have the GM icon tag so its someone elses fault if they think i am a GM?

forsaken2134

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

how about this
its agaisnt rules to have a name like GMMosz correct? well i dont have the GM icon tag so its someone elses fault if they think i am a GM?

qft
10chars

erethizon1

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

how about this
its agaisnt rules to have a name like GMMosz correct? well i dont have the GM icon tag so its someone elses fault if they think i am a GM?

To be perfectly honest I did not know it was against the rules to start your name with the letters "GM" nor would I have assumed that anyone that had the letters "GM" in their name was an actual GM. If it really is against the rules, is it even possible to start your character's name with the letters "GM" or does the name filter automatically prohibit it? If it does not prohibit it, will they go in and change your name later once it is discovered?

Even though my curiosity about your example did get me a bit off topic, your post still makes a great point. It is indeed silly to assume that someone is a GM just because the letters "GM" appear in their name. There is more to being a GM than having two capitalized letters in your name, just like there is more to being an ultimate substance than having a yellow icon that looks like a healing orb.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

how about this
its agaisnt rules to have a name like GMMosz correct? well i dont have the GM icon tag so its someone elses fault if they think i am a GM?

It's against the rules to impersonate a GM. If you respond as if you were a GM, then you are in violation of the ToS, and it's your fault, not theirs.

Zephyrx - Lost City

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

how about this
its agaisnt rules to have a name like GMMosz correct? well i dont have the GM icon tag so its someone elses fault if they think i am a GM?

I think your a GM...

Your Argument is Invalid