Venomancer Tank

Leaderalan - Lost City · June 2009

How would someone make a Venomancer Tank?

I have no skill or knowledge of a Venomancer class.

Information I need:
Skills
Build
Armor
Pet
Mobs

Thank you for any help.b:pleased

What I read so far:
3: Heavy Armor
High phys defense, high magic defense, low hp.
STR: (Enough to wear heavy armor 3-4 grades lower than you - equates to (level - 10 or 20) * 2.5 +2)
AGI: (Enough to wear heavy armor 3-4 grades lower than you)
MAG (Your level x3)
VIT: 3 (Or however many points are left over.)

Befuddling Mist
Stunning Blow
Leech
Melee Mastery

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary · June 2009

Veno "tank" = full magic arcane veno with a herc
or full magic + 1/10 vit for AOE survivability with a herc.

Leaderalan - Lost City · June 2009

I am looking for pure PvE.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Define Veno Tank. You mean foxform, melee weapon, or regular veno with heavy armor and pet still tanking?

Leaderalan - Lost City · June 2009

idk whats best for pve?
Less hp pots
Less chance of dieing.

Reikara - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Well I suppose this is where people get confused.
You can be a tank in two ways. If you wanted
to be a 'tank' for just PvE only, then you'll want
a simple mage build, as your pet does all the
tanking for you. You're given two 'heals', 3 counting
the one you can get on your genie so you wont ever
need pots either. You can heal your MP, HP and also
switch their vaules when one becomes too low.

If you get a hercules you'll be consdiered a typical
veno tank. For this kind of build it's really simple,
I think it goes +3 mag +2vit one level and the next is:
+2 mag +1vit +1str.
Basically you'd want to cap your vit around 30 or 40,
only have enough strength for armour and then pump
the rest into magic. You can also opt for higher vitality
but it wont matter so much if you're playing your veno right.

The type of veno you suggested at the top is a very difficult
build, it's used for PvP since the veno has to tank the hits instead
of the pet. It can be very difficult to level up with from level 1,
most people restat to it around level 80-90.

If you want to make a veno just to farm gold like most people,
just stick to the typical mage build. The only fox form skills you'd want
is amplify damage and maybe purge. (gets rid of target's buffs)
You'll want all the human mage skills and the buffs/heals.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Leaderalan - Lost City wrote: »

How would someone make a Venomancer Tank?

I have no skill or knowledge of a Venomancer class.

Information I need:
Skills
Build
Armor
Pet
Mobs

Thank you for any help.b:pleased

What I read so far:
3: Heavy Armor
High phys defense, high magic defense, low hp.
STR: (Enough to wear heavy armor 3-4 grades lower than you - equates to (level - 10 or 20) * 2.5 +2)
AGI: (Enough to wear heavy armor 3-4 grades lower than you)
MAG (Your level x3)
VIT: 3 (Or however many points are left over.)

Befuddling Mist
Stunning Blow
Leech
Melee Mastery

That is the most complicated build to level with, and if you've never played a veno before, don't. Also, to be a tank, you need to have higher armor level than 3-4 levels below your own level, and higher vitality than simply 3+whatever is left over which won't be much, if any.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The type of veno you suggested at the top is a very difficult
build, it's used for PvP since the veno has to tank the hits instead
of the pet. It can be very difficult to level up with from level 1,
most people restat to it around level 80-90.

Wrong!

First of all it isn't difficult at all. Not for me anyways. I had this build without resetting it. That's right, I started from lv1- now 78 as this build.

Pros:
-More physical resistance and damage
-More physical attack
-High health
-If pet dies then you have a way to help yourself not to get killed
-Pet and veno take turns tanking (You can do this to make the enemy switch from one to the other so it will take longer to attack one of you)
-Soul tranfusion can be used as an extra life bar (since you hardly use magic this is a great skill to use)
-Possibility of tanking bosses (Depends on heallth&def)
-For mobs you can take aggro without worrying about dying too much instead of commanding your pet to attack every monster that comes your way.
-Healing pet is the same as a typical veno (if and only if you upgrade that skill)/ This goes for all skills unless it is a magic attack skill.
-Axes/swords can be used for heavy damage
-Foxform can be used to debuff and kill enemies

Cons:

Yes there has to be some.

-Lower magic attack than usual venos (Can be solved with magic shards getting put into your armor)
-Lower magic defense than usual venos (Can be solved with magic shards getting put into your armor)

I haven't hit anymore cons along my way. Just don't get cocky with bosses. Some bosses you actually need a barb/team for.

Santacruz - Heavens Tear · June 2009

actually those cons are a lot worse

you can never have armour your level and a wep you lvl if anywhere close to your lvl if u have a mag wep and heavy armour, so your mag defence will suck **** big time and it "cant" be made up with sharding

your magic attack will also suck **** majorly and you will "not" be able to compensate that using shards either

a 80 heavy veno will be waring lvl 60 armour and a lvl 60 wep or 70 if lucky

"-Axes/swords can be used for heavy damage" quote

only weak axes and this makes any magic attacks useless (yes even fox ones, all veno skills require a mag wep or unarmed) if u use any other wep than a mag one, so all you can do is hit a mob normally with no skills available

"-Healing pet is the same as a typical veno (if and only if you upgrade that skill)/ This goes for all skills unless it is a magic attack skill." Quote

wrong, your magic will be far lower than any normal veno, and your magic sword will be much lower level too, so your pet heals will be a lot weaker.

"-Possibility of tanking bosses (Depends on heallth&def)" quote

buy a herc, much easier. your p def will never be as good as a tank or bm

"-High health"

how much hp do you have now? my veno has 3.5k hp at 82 so this isnt really an advantage

vagrant0 · June 2009

A heavy armor build has some serious complications. You're actually doing a 3 level build scheme... out of 15 points, 6 strength, 6 magic, 1 dex, 2 vit, every 3 levels... And then switching 1 point away from vit to dex at level 9, one point of vit to str at level 18, one point of vit to mag at 27, one point of vit to str at 36, one point of vit to magic at 45, one point of vit to str at 54, one point of vit to mag at 63, one point of vit to dex at 72, and so on every 9 levels until you hit the requirements for 90 equipment (will be needing to use + stat bonuses to get 99 gear on) where you start putting the rest into strength, vit, and dex. Very hard to keep track of if you aren't careful, and can leave you unable to use that next piece of mold gear for another level if done wrong. Vit for venos is ****, other stats usually end up being much more worthwhile. Shards and upgrades will be where quite alot of your health comes from.

You'll need to make use of nothing lower than 2 star gear every level after 20, 3* gear after level 40, Mold gear after level 50. You'll need to make use of every +strength and + magic item you can get a hold of so that you can squeeze that next armor/weapon on. You'll need to upgrade your armor and weapon to +2 during any of the milestone levels 51, 63, 78 to keep it comparable with the normal version of what is normally being worn. You will need to use lots and lots of shards and socket stones from 30+. Unless being comparable to any other heavy armor melee character is not important to you. Also, keep in mind that while in fox form, you wear down your weapon rather quickly, it's not uncommon for fox venos to wear down a weapon 60% or more on a single TT boss. Pure fox venos actually have to bring multiple weapons to make it through 1-3 and 2-2 runs (40k repair bill on each). So yeah, very expensive.

Its one of the most expensive build schemes there is, and hardly worth it in the long run since you will have your pet taking the damage 95% of the time anyway.

Most fox form venos are light armor, this gives them a bit more freedom with stat points, lets them use equipment at level, and still allows their hits to be strong enough to count. Being light armor, they can also make use of some of the veno spells when grinding, and use fox mostly for bosses or PvP.

If you're looking to tank or wear heavy armor, barb or BM is probably more your style. Generally, a veno which is being hit by a mob is a veno who has done something terribly wrong.

Akiratojo - Heavens Tear · June 2009

vagrant0 wrote: »

Generally, a veno which is being hit by a mob is a veno who has done something terribly wrong.

Not necessarily.
I am a HA veno, and yes, the build is complicated, but VERY worth it.
While my herc is killing 1 mob, I am killing another mob, and yes, the mob also attacks me since I am in WF mode. So it depends on your style.

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Is it really worth it for an HA Veno to get a Herc? At level 89, a Herc has over 4k HP. Would an HA Veno's pet heal be strong enough to keep the Herc alive when tanking bosses? A Herc's man advantage is the ability to tank bosses. Wouldn't it be more beneficial for an HA veno to either get a Nix to grind faster or to sink the money into their equips since HA Venos are much more gear-dependant?

Kittennice - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

actually those cons are a lot worse

Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you can never have armour your level and a wep you lvl if anywhere close to your lvl if u have a mag wep and heavy armour, so your mag defence will suck **** big time and it "cant" be made up with sharding

It can be made up with sharding. Magic def can go to 54% magic reduction with shards. And you have All heavy armor not All magic armor. Tanks don't wear light/arcane last time I checked

Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

your magic attack will also suck **** majorly and you will "not" be able to compensate that using shards either

You won't need magic to kill things. You have physical attack for killing things. Magic is just an add on and does not really need to be used unless for bramblehood/bramble/revive/heal/tame

Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

a 80 heavy veno will be waring lvl 60 armour and a lvl 60 wep or 70 if lucky

Wrong, I will be wearing level 80 armor when I'm lv 80. You won't be using a magic weapon. You can still do magic as barehand.

Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

"-Axes/swords can be used for heavy damage" quote

only weak axes and this makes any magic attacks useless (yes even fox ones, all veno skills require a mag wep or unarmed) if u use any other wep than a mag one

b:chuckle You'll hit the same in physical as in magic. I don't get what you're saying about weak axes. Again, you won't be using magic as I stated in my previous post.

Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

"-Healing pet is the same as a typical veno (if and only if you upgrade that skill)/ This goes for all skills unless it is a magic attack skill." Quote

wrong, your magic will be far lower than any normal veno, and your magic sword will be much lower level too, so your pet heals will be a lot weaker.

Pet heal isn't weaker. Only magic attacks. You can't state what you don't know from experience. b:thanks

Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

"-Possibility of tanking bosses (Depends on heallth&def)" quote

buy a herc, much easier. your p def will never be as good as a tank or bm

Actually physical def is the same as a blademaster. As for a barb, nothing can compare to them. Not even a Herc. Why waste money when you can save yourself instead of hiding behind a fat guy. Lolb:chuckle Sorry but I don't rely all on my pet. Only for extra damage.b:victory

Further proof.

Tank Veno
http://pwcalc.ru/my/?char=3188b71f3dfdbfa6

Arcane Veno
http://pwcalc.ru/my/?char=6a51142e0929fd36

Last time I checked, 18% physical defense is bad. At least Tankvenos have a magic def of 46% along with more health shards.

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary · June 2009

Kittennice - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Tank Veno
http://pwcalc.ru/my/?char=3188b71f3dfdbfa6

Arcane Veno
http://pwcalc.ru/my/?char=6a51142e0929fd36

Last time I checked, 18% physical defense is bad. At least Tankvenos have a magic def of 46% along with more health shards.

is it just me or does that arcane veno have the crappiest gems in his/her armour? mp shards? and the crappiest magic def accessories too, robe venos use phy. def belts, not elemental ones.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Is it really worth it for an HA Veno to get a Herc? At level 89, a Herc has over 4k HP. Would an HA Veno's pet heal be strong enough to keep the Herc alive when tanking bosses? A Herc's man advantage is the ability to tank bosses. Wouldn't it be more beneficial for an HA veno to either get a Nix to grind faster or to sink the money into their equips since HA Venos are much more gear-dependant?

Nope. Heavy venos don't need pets like that. Possibly a high magic def pet could tank magic things. But with your health you can kill it. And you don't have to worry about those magic resistance monsters.

I have helped heal pets before barehanded. It's up to par.If you want more magic get an mp charm lolz.

You grind as fast as a bm + a pet

Money isn't that much of a worry. If you don't feel like killing things then just let your pet have fun killing things for a while. Get enough money so you can use equip repairs. You can also fight the same thing your pet does.

Killing things fast = less hits = not much to repairs

I have 12-22K repair bills but I make 400k from grinding so it''s all good.b:victory

Akiratojo - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Is it really worth it for an HA Veno to get a Herc? At level 89, a Herc has over 4k HP. Would an HA Veno's pet heal be strong enough to keep the Herc alive when tanking bosses? A Herc's man advantage is the ability to tank bosses. Wouldn't it be more beneficial for an HA veno to either get a Nix to grind faster or to sink the money into their equips since HA Venos are much more gear-dependant?

Well I'd have to say why not.

I have both herc and nix, and i can't complain about the pet heal. that being said I am VERY active in terms of grinding. I am working on at least a +10 (will get to +12, I hope) sakayumis light lvl 70 sword as my near end-game weapon, but as of now, I have no problems with Herc at all.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear · June 2009

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »

is it just me or does that arcane veno have the crappiest gems in his/her armour? mp shards? and the crappiest magic def accessories too, robe venos use phy. def belts, not elemental ones.

Lol I usually see blue glowing people and blue gems are the more magic gems. Plus I hear people talk about channeling reduction so I put that lv80 equipment in. Lol the other things don't have good magic stats >.<
I did place the citrine gems in there aswell. I'll make different things of it. Thanks for the tell.

Akiratojo - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Kittennice - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wrong, I will be wearing level 80 armor when I'm lv 80. You won't be using a magic weapon. You can still do magic as barehand.

and not quite correct.

you will be using a mag weapon of a lower level, if the bonuses are good you might have a HH70 or lvl 70 mold weapon at that level, so far if I dont get any more bonuses I will be able to use my mold70 sword at lvl 81 while wearing FULL heavy armor.

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary · June 2009

Arcane veno
http://pwcalc.ru/my/?char=3771e7e32f44a846

Heavy veno
http://pwcalc.ru/my/?char=c757fa04895f61f3

did some reconfiguration with the previous poster's data ia make it more balanced.

Santacruz - Heavens Tear · June 2009

pics or it didnt happen

all i see is talk and no supporting evidence

and as your heavy veno link states "http://pwcalc.ru/my/?char=3188b71f3dfdbfa6"

what a boring build, you cant use any veno skills or fox form skills, just normal melee. wow you have better p def but one attack over and over ? have fun playing

Kittennice - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Akiratojo - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Kittennice - Heavens Tear wrote: »

and not quite correct.

you will be using a mag weapon of a lower level, if the bonuses are good you might have a HH70 or lvl 70 mold weapon at that level, so far if I dont get any more bonuses I will be able to use my mold70 sword at lvl 81 while wearing FULL heavy armor.

I was saying that you don't need a magic weapon if you go all melee.
Melee weapon at same lv = yes
Magic weapon at same lv = no

It's just my type of stlye. I was just giving him info of a build.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear · June 2009

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »

Arcane veno
http://pwcalc.ru/my/?char=3771e7e32f44a846

Heavy veno
http://pwcalc.ru/my/?char=c757fa04895f61f3

did some reconfiguration with the previous poster's data ia make it more balanced.

Thank you. Sorry I don't know that build and what they put in.b:surrender

Kittennice - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

pics or it didnt happen

all i see is talk and no supporting evidence

and as your heavy veno link states "http://pwcalc.ru/my/?char=3188b71f3dfdbfa6"

what a boring build, you cant use any veno skills or fox form skills, just normal melee. wow you have better p def but one attack over and over ? have fun playing

Don't worry, I willb:pleased

You have fun toob:thanks

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear · June 2009

If you stat for the current set of Dual Axes, and put everything else into Magic you will eventually have 249 Str, 49 Dex, 134 Magic and 5 vitality by level 90.

The Weapons you will be capable of using are a Wheel of Fate and the TT90 Dual Axes. The armor you will be able to use is the TT90 Gold HA set, and if you have something that gives you some +magic, you could also use the TT90 Gold Arcane set as well.

Looks like a Fox Form build to me.

Santacruz - Heavens Tear · June 2009

you cant tank if you cant hold agro and that type of damage (no skills) wont hold agro against anything, barbs have agro skills you dont...

ohh and this is going to cost you a bloody fortune to buy all those shards, its your credit card at the end of the day, but still seems a waste

and i meant pics of your char ingame ._.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you cant tank if you cant hold agro and that type of damage (no skills) wont hold agro against anything, barbs have agro skills you dont...

ohh and this is going to cost you a bloody fortune to buy all those shards, its your credit card at the end of the day, but still seems a waste

and i meant pics of your char ingame ._.

I tanked Farng at level 32 using Dual Axes and a charm. Rend Razorjaw at level 33 with the same charm. Pet couldn't pull aggro off me.

Reikara - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Kittennice, I know all that, i'm a heavy/robe build myself. (Signature)
I mean it's difficult for anyone who is new to venomancers
and can easily **** up their build.

And no Santacruz, you're quite wrong there.
A BM or barb's P.def will never be as good as mine. (16,948 fully buffed in 80 gear)

HP is low yes, but it's easily made up for. My health is 3148, however none of my
armour is refined, only HP shards. I plan to get my 90 gear+5 or 6. Maybe around
5000HP.

Don't know why you'd use axes in human form. All your accuracy comes from fox
form.

Heavy and light armour's magic attack is the same. Heavy and light armour's magic
attack is weaker than robes. That's the trade off, but it's not so gimped that
we can't heal our pets effecitvly or grind or anything...

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Don't know why you'd use axes in human form. All your accuracy comes from fox form.

If you tank your magic completely, and you use Fox Form your magic weapon will need to be repaired often because the Wand of Colors just doesn't have the durability same level axes will have, and your DPS in Fox Form will only be marginally higher than in Human Form with accuracy shards socketed (it might be more than marginally the higher level you get, but I haven't been able to check as of yet), and that's chain spamming Fox Wallop/Befudding Mist and MP pots. It's when you don't completely tank your magic and have the ability to use a magic weapon with a durability higher than 24 that using Fox Form becomes more viable. I went into FB19 at level 25, and the Wand of Colors broke within the first 15 minutes or so.

Peritia - Lost City · June 2009

Too sleepy to address all the misconceptions about heavy veno that came earlier in the thread, so I'll keep my additions brief.

I am a Heavy Veno, have been since 74 (now 78). I use full level armour and weapon (Sakyamuni's Light and TT70 Heavy).

Equipment at 74: http://i41.tinypic.com/mie1hy.jpg

I typically grind in caster or fox form depending on which is more convenient/fun, I have greatly increased survivability against physical attacks, and if I need magic defense for an extended period I just equip my arcane (70) set again.

My magic attacks (and pet heals) are consequentially a bit lower than while I was arcane build. This means grinding may take one (sometimes two) casts longer than in the past, and I do need to heal my pet a bit sooner. However, the drop by no way gimps you unless you enjoy running TT (I do not, and thus it is not an issue for me). I also find my survivability in fox form in TW is a great asset since I can get right up front.

As for tanking, I have tanked a few bosses, most notably Dragon of the Depths and Gargantakong King. I'm no Barbarian, and those aren't the most exciting of bosses ever, but it's very doable. With a heads up to my squadmates (so they didn't go completely all-out) and by spamming skills I held hate on both. May have taken slightly longer and been less efficient than a barbarian, but when one's not available I can fill the role admirably.

TL;DR Version: I find Heavy Veno fun and it helps me enjoy what I choose to do ingame.

Addendum: If anyone has any questions/comments on my gear/experiences/etc I'd be happy to answer them in the forums, PM, or ingame sometime.

Alphae - Lost City · June 2009

Peritia - Lost City wrote: »

TL;DR Version: I find Heavy Veno fun and it helps me enjoy what I choose to do ingame.

Heavy veno != melee veno. If you want to melee all the time and not ever use magic roll a BM.

Heavy venos on the other hand intrigue me, I'm too damn lazy to roll one because of all the twiddling and fiddling you have to do with stats but they do sound rather fun. Maybe at 90 I'll sink a lot of time and effort into it XD Maybe I won't. Maybe I'll never make it to 90. :P

Main point:
heavy veno = viable build
melee veno = not particularly viable, but whatever, if you want to play it be my guest :P

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Alphae - Lost City wrote: »

Heavy veno != melee veno. If you want to melee all the time and not ever use magic roll a BM.

Heavy venos on the other hand intrigue me, I'm too damn lazy to roll one because of all the twiddling and fiddling you have to do with stats but they do sound rather fun. Maybe at 90 I'll sink a lot of time and effort into it XD Maybe I won't. Maybe I'll never make it to 90. :P

Main point:
heavy veno = viable build
melee veno = not particularly viable, but whatever, if you want to play it be my guest :P

Heavy Fox Form venos ARE melee venos. There are two types of Heavy Melee Venos: Fox Form and Human Form.

Venomancer Tank

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