Demon Beastial Onslaught

CornHilario - Heavens Tear

okay, this is like the second time i made a thread exactly like this. in the last one, we agreed that it was +35% crit over *0.35 crit. but now...

Arravis - Lost City wrote: »

It's an extremely rare book, and it increases your crit by (your current crit) * 0.35. It's not a solid 35% increase.

so which one is it?! someone make the FINAL DECISION before i go demon! i dont wanna go demon just for onslaught and regret it later.

Arravis - Lost City

I'd say, wait a little bit longer until more people have this skill. I'm still getting mixed feedback myself, seeing that one WB from MY said he had over 50% crit with onslaught (I'm assuming then, it would HAVE to give 35% solid). Another experienced WB from MY also told me that is was only 35% of what you have, which sounds MUCH more reasonable.

I will take note of this however, taken from warmachine's Blademaster guide:

dekciw wrote: »

Highland Cleave

Heaven : gives a 25% chance to increase critical hit rate by 20% for 10 seconds.
Hell : gives a 20% chance to increase attack rate by 25% for 10 seconds.

self-explanatory, forced to admit that the heaven version of this skill is freaking nice. ( Basically it's yourcurrentcrit + ( yourcurrentcrit * 20%))

-Emphasis on the last statement in parentheses there.

But tbh, you shouldn't go heaven or hell just one for a single skill (unless maybe Veno's Ironwood scarab, which actually drops from FB89). There's a lot more skill books to take advantage of.

Erado - Heavens Tear

yeah you gotta look at the whole picture of what you want to do with your barb before chosing sage or demon.

if you plan on pvping etc alot, and go in humanoid grinding its good to consider. however, if you have a tank build and go for tanking mostly, that whole demon beastial onslaught thing is relatively useless since you wont be using it much at all.

CornHilario - Heavens Tear

ty for all the info

by the way, may i know what u guys are sage or demon? ty (dont worry im not trying to decide on sage or demon based on what you guys chose)

Arravis - Lost City

I chose Demon because I felt the Demon tiger opened way to many new uses for skills. All of a sudden, tiger form and all of her skills can be used to max efficiency in solo grinding, pk, and in fun activities such as the cube (demon tiger form = 5 chips guaranteed per chip room).

A lot of the demon skills seem to have more useful effects, perhaps just due to my PVP mindset, but some of the heaven skills such as Poison Fang are just worthless (increase duraction to 30 minutes vs. 50% wood damage?). That being said, there are also a lot of heaven skills that seem to overpower the hell ones, but imo the Heaven skills give the tank a bit too much uncessary defense. The spike damage bonuses from going hell help to overcome our low damage and range.

Erado - Heavens Tear

i went sage, contrary to arravis

and basically... i play on a pve server, and i dont pvp much & dont TW anyway, that basically rules out all the need and uses for demon imo.

because contrary to what Arravis says, i do believe you cannot have enough defense and hp etc. if you go for a tank build barbarian.
And besides, the chances anyone here actually gets most of the 92 & 99 skills is very slim tbh.
Most ppl quit before even reaching 89, not to mention 99 or the trouble needed to get the actual skills.

Starang - Lost City

Arravis - Lost City wrote: »

I chose Demon because I felt the Demon tiger opened way to many new uses for skills. All of a sudden, tiger form and all of her skills can be used to max efficiency in solo grinding, pk, and in fun activities such as the cube (demon tiger form = 5 chips guaranteed per chip room).

A lot of the demon skills seem to have more useful effects, perhaps just due to my PVP mindset, but some of the heaven skills such as Poison Fang are just worthless (increase duraction to 30 minutes vs. 50% wood damage?). That being said, there are also a lot of heaven skills that seem to overpower the hell ones, but imo the Heaven skills give the tank a bit too much uncessary defense. The spike damage bonuses from going hell help to overcome our low damage and range.

Demon as well as Heaven can get 5 chips in cube chip rooms. Heaven Tigerform speed is even faster than Demon.

Arravis - Lost City

Erado - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And besides, the chances anyone here actually gets most of the 92 & 99 skills is very slim tbh.
Most ppl quit before even reaching 89, not to mention 99 or the trouble needed to get the actual skills.

Funny, that's actually another reason why I went hell...It's all personal preference, I guess.

Starang - Lost City wrote: »

Demon as well as Heaven can get 5 chips in cube chip rooms.

You actually don't need either to get 5 chips, but it's a bit easier if you go hell. On average, I finish with at least 20 seconds remaining, quite a large amount of time remaining. You also have the GX, something most WBs won't get to use.

Heaven Tigerform speed is even faster than Demon.

Not quite sure about this. How fast does Heaven tiger boost your movement speed? Hell tiger grants 80% speed boost.

CornHilario - Heavens Tear

Arravis - Lost City wrote: »

Not quite sure about this. How fast does Heaven tiger boost your movement speed? Hell tiger grants 80% speed boost.

wow, thats like moving LIKE a land mount but WITHOUT a land mount

CornHilario - Heavens Tear

by the way, i finally decided demon. i pk alot, and the skills are good too

-stomp of the beast king never misses, good for dealing a finishing blow to those annoying archers when they are low on hp

-beastial onslaught. still not sure about the crit bonus, but its good damage

-axe/hammer mastery gives +2% crit

-slam gives 18 chi for EACH enemy it hits

-blood bath quadruples you accuracy

-true form makes pking in tiger form better and funner and cooler

-demon flesh ream reduces cooldown for better bleed spammage

-sunder makes every attack critical for 5 seconds after casting

-shapeshifting intensity gives +2% crit

-poison fang gives +50% extra wood damage

of course, there are some sage skills i like more, such as never-missing onslaught, double damage axe/hammers, mp regen from feral regeneration, and +50% dmg SoT, but demon wins this time. b:pleased

Starang - Lost City

Arravis - Lost City wrote: »

You also have the GX, something most WBs won't get to use.

GX or XS, won't really make a difference in chip room since the mobs are so weak...

Arravis - Lost City wrote: »

Not quite sure about this. How fast does Heaven tiger boost your movement speed? Hell tiger grants 80% speed boost.

Heaven tigerform gives 90% speed boost now after the skill update. (my speed in tigerform is 9.3)

Lycanthar - Sanctuary

Starang - Lost City wrote: »

Heaven tigerform gives 90% speed boost now after the skill update. (my speed in tigerform is 9.3)

Starang made a post and I JIZZED IN MY PANTS.b:shocked

Arravis - Lost City

Lycanthar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Starang made a post and I JIZZED IN MY PANTS.b:shocked

He's even faster with the Archer speed boost...10 m/s + b:surrender

Chappy_Happy - Heavens Tear

So is Demon BO:

1) +35% of current?
(eg 50% to 85%)

or

2) Increase current by 35% (x1.35)?
(eg 50% to 67.5%)

CornHilario - Heavens Tear

Chappy_Happy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So is Demon BO:

1) +35% of current?
(eg 50% to 85%)

or

2) Increase current by 35% (x1.35)?
(eg 50% to 67.5%)

two things:
1.hey, that was MY question in the beggining, stop stealing my spotlight! >:O
2.i think we all agree that its the number two, number one is too uber

and one other thing...
9.3 fricken meters per second?! thats insane!!!!!!!!
>:O

forsaken2134

its still an uber add, even its a .35% crit, or a solid 35% crit increase, considering im going full dex after 90, it will be usefull either way b:chuckle

KingTank - Heavens Tear

why do people make PvP barbs, you might as well make a BM.

the 2% crit on axe and hammer mastery is not good compared to the dmg increase on the sage on

forsaken2134

sage doesnt offer much else for pvp. as demon we get another no-miss skill in humanoid form,BB is increased to 300% accuracy.strength gives us 2% crit rate, axe and hammer, 2% crit rate, demon onslaught = .35% increased. sunder = 5 seconds of 100%crit rate... its deadly

Chappy_Happy - Heavens Tear

lol
You can keep the spotlight. I just wanted confirmation that it was either 1 or 2.

But I do want to know, is it actually confirmed thru testing or just confirmed because #1 seems too uber?

Neltharius - Heavens Tear

People swear that Sage Barbs can't PK
ZOMGZ00ORS! Crit Increase on Demon.
So what ?
Sage Titan Str and Mastery will give a sage a higher constant damage output
That way, you don't have to depend on lucky crits to deal damage
Sage Bloodbath also decreases the amount of HP you lose
If you know anything about PvP, you know that you're gonna need to have Bloodbath activated if you wanna land hits.
More HP = More Damage with Perdition
Sage Perdition also decreases the amount of MP and HP you consume from 50% to 35% while keeping the same amount of damage. This saves you a charm tick and gives an extra 15% MP and HP that can be used for something else.
Also, have you tried PK'ing people that do the hit and run (kiting) ?
Sage Beastial Onslaught guarantees that these people get hit since it hits 100% of the time.
Yes, I agree that some of the Sage skills are pretty useless, but you don't necessarily have to get all of them.
Sage is definitely the way to go with barb.
Not only does it increase your PK abilities, but it makes you godly at tanking for PvE also.

Demon is for other classes that are considered DD, such as int based veno, blademaster, or archer.

Neltharius - Heavens Tear

forsaken2134 wrote: »

sage doesnt offer much else for pvp. as demon we get another no-miss skill in humanoid form,BB is increased to 300% accuracy.strength gives us 2% crit rate, axe and hammer, 2% crit rate, demon onslaught = .35% increased. sunder = 5 seconds of 100%crit rate... its deadly

If you're fighting anybody who knows anything about PWI and actually took time to look into the game, they'll realize that they must run as soon as they see you sunder or "demon" onslaught.

and which demon skill is a no-miss ? name please.
only no-miss i've seen is sage beastial onslaught.

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

Neltharius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

People swear that Sage Barbs can't PK
ZOMGZ00ORS! Crit Increase on Demon.
So what ?
Sage Titan Str and Mastery will give a sage a higher constant damage output
That way, you don't have to depend on lucky crits to deal damage
Sage Bloodbath also decreases the amount of HP you lose
If you know anything about PvP, you know that you're gonna need to have Bloodbath activated if you wanna land hits.
More HP = More Damage with Perdition
Sage Perdition also decreases the amount of MP and HP you consume from 50% to 35% while keeping the same amount of damage. This saves you a charm tick and gives an extra 15% MP and HP that can be used for something else.
Also, have you tried PK'ing people that do the hit and run (kiting) ?
Sage Beastial Onslaught guarantees that these people get hit since it hits 100% of the time.
Yes, I agree that some of the Sage skills are pretty useless, but you don't necessarily have to get all of them.
Sage is definitely the way to go with barb.
Not only does it increase your PK abilities, but it makes you godly at tanking for PvE also.

Demon is for other classes that are considered DD, such as int based veno, blademaster, or archer.

who cares of the HP u'll lose with bloodbath when u can fight in tiger form and still have lots hps and u have to add demon Sunder, the last aoe u'll ever see

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

Neltharius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you're fighting anybody who knows anything about PWI and actually took time to look into the game, they'll realize that they must run as soon as they see you sunder or "demon" onslaught.

and which demon skill is a no-miss ? name please.
only no-miss i've seen is sage beastial onslaught.

stomp of the beast king, it never miss in demon

Neltharius - Heavens Tear

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »

who cares of the HP u'll lose with bloodbath when u can fight in tiger form and still have lots hps and u have to add demon Sunder, the last aoe u'll ever see

i bet you're a demon barb
the ones who only pay attention to 1 thing
please read the WHOLE thing. then respond.
and thanks for clarifying the skill.
Sunder's strong. but "the last aoe u'll ever see" makes me lol.

forsaken2134

5 seconds of 100% crit rate with GX = bye bye ^_^

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

Neltharius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i bet you're a demon barb
the ones who only pay attention to 1 thing
please read the WHOLE thing. then respond.
and thanks for clarifying the skill.
Sunder's strong. but "the last aoe u'll ever see" makes me lol.

cuz u immediately die after

70% of the barbs choosing sage are doing it only because of the true form +10% hp book, they are actually the ones who pay attention to 1 skill

hell is better than heaven, we just don't have all the books yet, that's why a lot of ppl choose sage

forsaken2134

heaven and hell are about equal in usefullness, heaven gets more physical attacks, while we get the crits.

CornHilario - Heavens Tear

*raises hand*
ALL IN FAVOR OF GOLIATH SAY I.
"I"

Arravis - Lost City

Neltharius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

People swear that Sage Barbs can't PK
ZOMGZ00ORS! Crit Increase on Demon.

Sage Titan Str and Mastery will give a sage a higher constant damage output

This is only % increase from weapon dmg, not overall dmg. It's a rather small increase if you actually look at it.

That way, you don't have to depend on lucky crits to deal damage

Much of PVP is about spike damage, especially for a barb, which has the fastest channeling and casting of all the classes. It's the main reason why XS and GX are so good.

Sage Bloodbath also decreases the amount of HP you lose
If you know anything about PvP, you know that you're gonna need to have Bloodbath activated if you wanna land hits.

You're also going to realize you need more accuraccy, seeing that bloodbath's accuraccy bonuses stop going after it hits level 10, whereas everyone else's evasion continues to grow.

More HP = More Damage with Perdition

Demon perdition already gives 10% extra damage just by itself.

Also, have you tried PK'ing people that do the hit and run (kiting) ?
Sage Beastial Onslaught guarantees that these people get hit since it hits 100% of the time.

Barbs can't "hit and run" with anything BUT perdition. There is nothing else that can one-shot someone in our arsenal, unless you're willing to risk a berserked-crit. But hey, if you go heaven, you don't have much crit.

Another thing. Sage beastial onslaught's channeling goes up almost three times as much. Not much of a "hit and run" bonus.

Sage is definitely the way to go with barb.
Not only does it increase your PK abilities, but it makes you godly at tanking for PvE also.

Actually, demon barb might also be good for tanking, seeing that flesh ream has a shorter cooldown and you get full damage, making it just a tad easier to hold aggro.

And do note, on the LC server high scores, there is not a single Barbarian that is heaven.

Demon is for other classes that are considered DD, such as int based veno, blademaster, or archer.

A rather large generaliztion imo.

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

top score Arravis

forsaken2134

Arravis - Lost City wrote: »

Much of PVP is about spike damage, especially for a barb, which has the fastest channeling and casting of all the classes. It's the main reason why XS and GX are so good.

most of PvP for barbs isnt spike damage at all. LA and AA classes do not need high spike damage, unless their gears are incredibly refined, in that case spike damage is needed. spike is needed for HA classes, which is a smaller amount of the PK that you will find.

now, im not saying crits and berserk are for unskilled pkers. but they arent 100% neccesary for all pk. it just makes you that much more godly