help me argue with myself plz

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

ok im deciding on whether to go heaven or hell
here is what im thinking about

heaven:
chi bonus
BIDS effect

hell:
crit bonus
-channeling
fairy b:chuckle

which would be better?
i am all for extra crit but im starting to want -channeling soon
also for my TT 70 wep which is better?
-channel or crit?

see depending on which path im gonna go is what TT 70 wep im gonna get
>.< help

Mizorie - Lost City

When your 8x start to research and talk to both sage and hell mages. No use in choosing now.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

i wanted to know cause if im going demon i want to use - channeling and if im going sage i want to use crit ( TT wep)

sage0nemage

Go demon/hell

Ursa - Dreamweaver

for a DD class to go sage is probably the biggest single mistake in the game.
Wizz is not good for a lot of things, but it's good for one thing: Damage. Take that away and u take away the one thing we're good at. All demon spells have either increase dmg or decreased cast times.

RedSpeller - Sanctuary

Well sage give you more chi, so more chance to cast ultimates ^^. And sage Wellspring Quaff give a extra 100% magic attack increase for 15 secondes. Both are valuable.
Sage give more stable damage, demon give spike damage and control skill ^^.

(I'll go demon, stun and channeling reduction attract me a lot :P)

AndromedaB - Sanctuary

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

for a DD class to go sage is probably the biggest single mistake in the game.
Wizz is not good for a lot of things, but it's good for one thing: Damage. Take that away and u take away the one thing we're good at. All demon spells have either increase dmg or decreased cast times.

and sage has more chi=more dmg as well as a better masteries and debuffs while deamon has stun

basically sage=constant damage, debuffs, more chi
deamon=spike damage, survivability (although deamon stone barrier is pretty expensive and rare... think of it as deamon true form), and stuns

RedSpeller - Sanctuary

Anyone know if the channeling effect of demon wellspring quaff stack with channeling on gear?

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

ya if the channeling stacks then im going demon -
but still the chi from sage appeals to me....
im gonna see if i can find a few demon/sage wizards and have them give their advice.

hey if any sage/demon wizards read this plz answer these questions

do you regret your choice?
what is one thing you like about going demon/sage
what is one thing you dislike about going demon/sage
as a demon/sage wizard, what do you think makes demon/sage better than the other?
what skills do you use in pve? pvp (PK/duels)? TW?

thanks for answering

right now sage is starting to appeal....getting all those skills and having some nice - channeling gear would make you a god in TW

avainix

ok i think some of you all are forgetting something...no offence T.T. yes i agree that sage chi is VERY appealing, and it is very stable...but wizards are built for hitting HARD, we have TERRIBLE deffence. yes, we have more chi to use...but do we have the time to use it? i actually searched up the skills and made tallies for every thing usefull to a wizard...and it was like sage 5, demon the rest. yeahhhh....im going demon.

Pirodar - Sanctuary

The question is how does the sage welspring qualf work and if it can be active all the time. I mean if sage wizard can gather a spark within 15 sec and use the skill again before the effect stops.

And I'm seriously asking how it works, because I don't trust the skill descriptions on PWI at all. After the failure with the frost blade one can expect anything. I'm expecting it to add 100% of equipment m attack to base magic attack (like half of the effect of a single spark eruption). Can some sage wizard confirm this?

This one skill changes the whole picture

Clara - Lost City

I want fights to end as quickly as possible, so either I kill them fast or they kill me fastb:victory

(im full int)

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

ya clara you make good points......
man why cant there just be an in between where you choose which side you want b:cry

PrettySammy - Sanctuary

Do I regret going sage:

Hell no


what is one thing you like about going sage

Crits and so much chi, I use nukes an awful lot now, I couldn't before. Consider it this way is sage gives me 150% earth res on stone barrier adn 120% phy def thats not that different from demon.

I would like that wellspring quaff questions answered myself. If it actually was +x% mag attack for the entire duration of quaff that is a mind blowing power boost.

I dont know why people down frostblade, from experience we have worked out, if you can do phy dmg it helps a little (alot on fire mobs). I have the sage version and I am always asked for it.


what is one thing you dislike about going demon/sage

People trying to "educate" me on how I went wrong by choosing Sage. Demon is not superior to Sage and Sage isnt superior to Demon. THEY ARE FOR 2 DIFFERENT PLAYING STYLES PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

as a sage wizard, what do you think makes sage better than the other?

Hmm each has their own advantage Demon get a fair few power boosts and - channeling effects which are nice but I also get some of those plus dbl dmg on frozen targets (hailstorm) and D Pyro's debuff is gigaty good. I chose Sage out of sheer playing style, its about what appeals to YOU, not your friends, not some person on forums, not the guild. YOU! Sage is great for nukes, the buffs are sweet and for LA the chi boost is excellent.

BTW it was mentione about Sage Dragons Breath, let me be clear on this great for TW, DEATH WARRENT in DELTA. Get this and the next time you delta is lv 97 with a forgiving squad. The stuns reset aggro and turn you into victim number 1. AVOID THIS SKILL!

what skills do you use in pve? pvp (PK/duels)? TW?

the base Sage skills are excellent Pyrogram, Gush and Stone Rain have lovely power boosts. The extra chimakes for good sutra nuking e.g for clerics i`ll use

Undine Strike --> Sutra (D Pyro, Pyro, Will of Pheonix (close) or Crown of Flame, Blade Tempest) The first 3 often **** up any charms especially with undine / spark debuffs, then finish with good night vienna Blade Tempest raining **** from the sky.

TW aoe skills are great I find I often use Will of Pheonix and Hailstorm on groups prior to a nuking, Bonus damage from Hailstorm on freeze helps alot. 1 skill I have recently started using is Emberstorm.

Let me be clear this is suicide and I know it, the sage reduce dmg will help though. Doing a DB on barbs attacking a crystal gets HP down nicely especially if undined, purges etc etc etc. But for a fast final blow use Genie spark Will of Pheonix and let rip with a fast emberstorm the dmg is very very good

Moog - Lost City

sage wins hands down.

1) Chi is the most valuable thing to a wiz. (I constantly use sutra and my different aoes)
2)For those arguing "oh but demon stone shield rocks". Well sage stone shield also gives increased physical defense as well. And honestly demon stone shield just gives diminishing returns of phys resis at the level you'll get it.
3)SAGE BLACK ICE DRAGON, youll basically crit everything in the aoe for those arguing "oh but hell gives increased crit". And if the crit procs youll probably crit a few attacks after the aoe as well.
4)sage stone rain is almost as strong as maxed sandstorm and gives decreased channeling as well. IMO sage stone rain is better than some unreliable 20% stun chance.

Clara - Lost City

chi is nice....but there are potions for that sort of thing o.0

Antaury - Dreamweaver

Demon Spark rocks! thats all you need.

Gregen - Lost City

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

for a DD class to go sage is probably the biggest single mistake in the game.
Wizz is not good for a lot of things, but it's good for one thing: Damage. Take that away and u take away the one thing we're good at. All demon spells have either increase dmg or decreased cast times.

How is Demon more damage based? From what I've seen Demon is speed based as Sage is power based.

bigxbear

u cant use demon spark w/out chi, and u can only use chi pots every 2 min, not to mention sage chi is free b:victory

Moog - Lost City

Clara - Lost City wrote: »

chi is nice....but there are potions for that sort of thing o.0

apoc pots have cooldown. And I like to use vacuity powders more often than chi pots.

Calliope - Heavens Tear

Antaury - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Demon Spark rocks! thats all you need.

If you were a Cleric or an Archer, then yes, you'd need Demon Spark to kill people. But we have three ultimates, and Sutra. I'd rather use my spark on those, most of the time.

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary

I'm personally going sage because I love BT and BIDS b:dirty
But it's really up to which skills you use most.
More dps go demon, more frequent ults go sage (plus a wickedly overpowered BIDS).
Btw, this is the same thing everyone has been saying too xD

Edit: Read PrettySammy's post on p2. Much more informative.
As she said, they are two different playing styles.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

I'm going sage. why?
1. Demon barrier gives you 150% def. But from circa 8000def you don't gain very much damage reduction so I think it not worth. And 8000 def you can make with sage 120% barrier quite easily too.
2. 5% from masteries is much more, than additional 1200 damage from SS. This will be true, when you will have weapon refined to +7 or more. More attack damage, more sage damage gain.

Example Weapon. Neon purgatory refined +7 has a max. damage 6900. Now daemon SS has. 300% basic damage + 6560 earth damage = 27260 (same as sage) now + 1200(demon) =28 460 damage demon.

Now Sage: SS 6900 + 300% + 6560 = 27260 + 5% =
28 623 damage. So Sage damage is more about 163 in comparing demon damage.

Now you have refined same weapon to +12. So demon damage will be 40580 +1200=41780
Sage damage will be 40580 + 5% = 42609. So sage damage is now 829 more than demon damage.

Now just hypothetically. With rank 8 weapon refined +12. Has demon maximum damage 51 827. Maximum sage damage is now 53158. So sage damage is 1331 bigger than demon damage.


Also this difference will grow with more basic damage you will have. 1200 demon damage will never change, BUT 5% of sage damage will grow always. Also This 5 % is for EVERY spell.
Also I didn't mention another aspect like chi and ultimates.

Kannone - Heavens Tear

Going sage because:

1.) I only expect to get the three primary spells (pyro, gush, stone rain), and for me the bonuses are better (chi, extended debuff duration, 1.6second chann.); all other skills are bonuses I might get in the very distant future, and they are pretty much equal on both sides.

2.) Because I only expect to get the three primary spells, the fairy will make all the difference. +chi for me (eg nuke a group) is way better than -chi for a single target.

It's that simple imho.

Cholla - Harshlands

I am going Demon because I like their potential for stun, and I like their long range distance shrink, and I like their chance to use an ultimate without spending chi and their ability to drain an opponent's chi, and I think I can live with their increased pdef and increased spell damage, and their fast channelling advantages, and their heal over time skills are also really nice.

But I might change my mind, later.

FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver

Calliope - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you were a Cleric or an Archer, then yes, you'd need Demon Spark to kill people. But we have three ultimates, and Sutra. I'd rather use my spark on those, most of the time.

+1, shes right why spark when u have sutra+ult b:surrender

im thinking on sage too:
becuz of +5% masterys that means ALOT in ultas dmg and in us dps, compared to the demon they are godly since demon masterys dont even stack and u will get +1% crit from earth mast to oly earth skills...and the same for fire and water

i love the chi power, and the shrink too ...i already saw lots of demon mages that cant use shrink often in a duel do to save chi

ults are just better in sage...and wiht masterys tehy become even better

skills are fine in sage for me the spam skills i use are pyro+gush+wop+SR, and i dotn use more skills except un dine strike oc but it isnt a dmg skill, and for me tehy are better the pyro might be cooler in demon version but wiht masterys its better +5% dmg than +1% crit and more the chi bonus from pyro means even more sutra+ult, in gush u can find that dmg is almost the same if not in awesome gear sage will be strongger for sure and will have + debuff , WoP is not important becuz sage help it to be spam better and faster while demon helps in aoe wich is good in TW and pve multi-targets, SR sage>demon no matter what u think becuz - channeling +dmg for 20% stun b:bye


anyway i still have a very low info about quaff wellspring can some that had or already got it say somethink....ecatomb might be in mystake <<

Damaged - Lost City

Going demon for several reasons

First of all, people getting boners over having more chi (gain 50 chi per 1 minute, and pyrogram's chi gain ability):

Gain 50 chi per 1 minute - WOAH - that's like, the chi equivalent of 3 regular spells which is easily under 10 seconds? Plus if you're against an opponent that went demon, they could clearly drain the chi you make - infact, they can do it twice per minute as opposed to you gaining once per minute. Useless much? If you're going to build chi in safe zone just cast frostblade 4 times. The pyrogram effect is nice I suppose, but how often do you do dragons in mass pvp? When there's bms from a safe listed faction, stun locking your opponent, are you really going to dragon and kill them also?

Who doesn't want reduced channeling, and more damage? And as for stone rain being an unreliable chance, you're going to be grateful for when it does stun since it opens up many oppurtunities (seeing as though the only way we can keep someone from moving, is with mage sleep\occult ice - one with a pathetic cooldown period, and the other with very limited range).

In open pvp are you really going to be glad you have some more chi since your pyrogram just proc'd? Will the reduced channeling on stone rain be more beneficial than stunning someone so the rest of your team can finish them? Not to mention the useless debuffs Glacial Snare and DP provide as Sage (seeing as though your target should be constantly undined in pvp, these effects are useless as opposed to reduced channeling)

And lol at the people going sage for ulti's, I bet half of you will quit once you get 90, can't afford +5 refines to live, and go play *that other game*.

Did I mention pathetic heaven spark? That sounds REALLY useful when you're DD'ing from a distance, as a good mage SHOULD be. Going to be really beneficial to your HH team aswell when you're taking less damage (even though you don't have aggro).

Imo you high 9x's are just biased towards sage since you chose it and don't want to look like morons. Have fun with your increased gush debuff duration, bigger orange bar (that should be full ANYWAY before you go into open PVP - hello embrace, hello spamming skills to gain chi), "better" ults (that really only get used once a week for TW), and a nice white pixie following you around.

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

Damaged - Lost City wrote: »

Going demon for several reasons

First of all, people getting boners over having more chi (gain 50 chi per 1 minute, and pyrogram's chi gain ability):

Gain 50 chi per 1 minute - WOAH - that's like, the chi equivalent of 3 regular spells which is easily under 10 seconds? Plus if you're against an opponent that went demon, they could clearly drain the chi you make - infact, they can do it twice per minute as opposed to you gaining once per minute. Useless much? If you're going to build chi in safe zone just cast frostblade 4 times. The pyrogram effect is nice I suppose, but how often do you do dragons in mass pvp? When there's bms from a safe listed faction, stun locking your opponent, are you really going to dragon and kill them also?

Who doesn't want reduced channeling, and more damage? And as for stone rain being an unreliable chance, you're going to be grateful for when it does stun since it opens up many oppurtunities (seeing as though the only way we can keep someone from moving, is with mage sleep\occult ice - one with a pathetic cooldown period, and the other with very limited range).

In open pvp are you really going to be glad you have some more chi since your pyrogram just proc'd? Will the reduced channeling on stone rain be more beneficial than stunning someone so the rest of your team can finish them? Not to mention the useless debuffs Glacial Snare and DP provide as Sage (seeing as though your target should be constantly undined in pvp, these effects are useless as opposed to reduced channeling)

And lol at the people going sage for ulti's, I bet half of you will quit once you get 90, can't afford +5 refines to live, and go play *that other game*.

Did I mention pathetic heaven spark? That sounds REALLY useful when you're DD'ing from a distance, as a good mage SHOULD be. Going to be really beneficial to your HH team aswell when you're taking less damage (even though you don't have aggro).

Imo you high 9x's are just biased towards sage since you chose it and don't want to look like morons. Have fun with your increased gush debuff duration, bigger orange bar (that should be full ANYWAY before you go into open PVP - hello embrace, hello spamming skills to gain chi), "better" ults (that really only get used once a week for TW), and a nice white pixie following you around.

Amen to youb:kiss

Uncanny - Lost City

To me sage wizard is only more beneficial in TW because you can cast of ultis a lot more than normal, but in open pvp, if you REALLY NEED an ulti to kill someone then your just a bad wizard cos any mage should be able to kill someone without having to ult (half the time you wont even get to cast it off)

FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver

Damaged - Lost City wrote: »

Going demon for several reasons

First of all, people getting boners over having more chi (gain 50 chi per 1 minute, and pyrogram's chi gain ability):

Gain 50 chi per 1 minute - WOAH - that's like, the chi equivalent of 3 regular spells which is easily under 10 seconds? Plus if you're against an opponent that went demon, they could clearly drain the chi you make - infact, they can do it twice per minute as opposed to you gaining once per minute. Useless much? If you're going to build chi in safe zone just cast frostblade 4 times. The pyrogram effect is nice I suppose, but how often do you do dragons in mass pvp? When there's bms from a safe listed faction, stun locking your opponent, are you really going to dragon and kill them also?

Who doesn't want reduced channeling, and more damage? And as for stone rain being an unreliable chance, you're going to be grateful for when it does stun since it opens up many oppurtunities (seeing as though the only way we can keep someone from moving, is with mage sleep\occult ice - one with a pathetic cooldown period, and the other with very limited range).

In open pvp are you really going to be glad you have some more chi since your pyrogram just proc'd? Will the reduced channeling on stone rain be more beneficial than stunning someone so the rest of your team can finish them? Not to mention the useless debuffs Glacial Snare and DP provide as Sage (seeing as though your target should be constantly undined in pvp, these effects are useless as opposed to reduced channeling)

And lol at the people going sage for ulti's, I bet half of you will quit once you get 90, can't afford +5 refines to live, and go play *that other game*.

Did I mention pathetic heaven spark? That sounds REALLY useful when you're DD'ing from a distance, as a good mage SHOULD be. Going to be really beneficial to your HH team aswell when you're taking less damage (even though you don't have aggro).

Imo you high 9x's are just biased towards sage since you chose it and don't want to look like morons. Have fun with your increased gush debuff duration, bigger orange bar (that should be full ANYWAY before you go into open PVP - hello embrace, hello spamming skills to gain chi), "better" ults (that really only get used once a week for TW), and a nice white pixie following you around.

chi buff every 1min wich gives +50chi is VERY USEFULL, and if u tell it isnt that great is becuz u didnt had any experience wiht it ....if u had use it like i did u should know it is usefull, why? u dont need targets...and thats all u need to know, becuz no targets means chi everywhere and u can get chi wihtout tick ur opponent charm for example....

demon have more reduc channel but not more dmg, look at masteries and find why.

what....u use ults 1 time per week?b:shocked
well if u was sage they should be almost like spam, u rly prefer hell spark than sutra+heaven bids....but if u see it carefull u find that sutra+ult=biggest dps in a mage life and dont matter if is oly for 6 becuz in that 6 seconds u can kill so fast like god.
btw using spark is like tell your enemy hey in 3 sec stun me pls...every hell wiz i saw until now must always walk wiht anti-stun and chi pot.....tehy cant even shrink in 1v1 doe to save chi thats a shame...and wiht all the chi u get, wich is much more than demon whatever u say u can sutra+bids every 40sec and if sutra is in CT u can always bids every 30sec... a bids crit will surely give dmg.

rly dont face sages max dps.

for me demon just have stone barrier and quaff wellspring

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

FireWizardEX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

chi buff every 1min wich gives +50chi is VERY USEFULL, and if u tell it isnt that great is becuz u didnt had any experience wiht it ....if u had use it like i did u should know it is usefull, why? u dont need targets...and thats all u need to know, becuz no targets means chi everywhere and u can get chi wihtout tick ur opponent charm for example....

demon have more reduc channel but not more dmg, look at masteries and find why.

what....u use ults 1 time per week?b:shocked
well if u was sage they should be almost like spam, u rly prefer hell spark than sutra+heaven bids....but if u see it carefull u find that sutra+ult=biggest dps in a mage life and dont matter if is oly for 6 becuz in that 6 seconds u can kill so fast like god.
btw using spark is like tell your enemy hey in 3 sec stun me pls...every hell wiz i saw until now must always walk wiht anti-stun and chi pot.....tehy cant even shrink in 1v1 doe to save chi thats a shame...and wiht all the chi u get, wich is much more than demon whatever u say u can sutra+bids every 40sec and if sutra is in CT u can always bids every 30sec... a bids crit will surely give dmg.

rly dont face sages max dps.

for me demon just have stone barrier and quaff wellspring

You know you are talking to a level 88 from lost city right?