venos
Vinat - Sanctuary
Posts: 1,200 Arc User
i know i've posted once before about this, but it's been coming up a lot again and i'd just like to have a discussion about it here.
topic being people who think venos pets are unfair advantages. not talking about flesh ream either, so if you wanna whine about that, dont post here. what i'm talking about is people who seem to think that if a veno uses a pet it doesnt count as soloing, or people who think a veno using a pet during a duel/pk is cheating.
which part of "pet is part of a veno" do some of you people not understand?
topic being people who think venos pets are unfair advantages. not talking about flesh ream either, so if you wanna whine about that, dont post here. what i'm talking about is people who seem to think that if a veno uses a pet it doesnt count as soloing, or people who think a veno using a pet during a duel/pk is cheating.
which part of "pet is part of a veno" do some of you people not understand?
Post edited by Vinat - Sanctuary on
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Comments
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Oh noes, veno has pet?b:laugh
So, anyway, you want to start this drama again? It just kinda quieted down recently.b:victory0 -
bah people will say a lot of things when they lose. like "you kited", or "you used a skill to heal", or "you used spark".
it doesnt even matter what those people think. no need to make another thread seriously. pretty sure they are in the minority0 -
People who lose tend to talk alot afterb:mischievous[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Koyote - Wizardhunter of Harshlandsb:pleased. (I hate wizardsb:angry)0 -
I think everyone have found out already that venos dosn't have unfair advantages, to be honest they are total overpowerd for griding & making coins. As my friend have say '' they are cheap **** '', and they are really. When i have change from a cleric to a veno, first i had think, maybe is my char buged, couldn't belive it how easy is everything with an veno. But now i playing it with an veno because it's just so much much more easy to play with him as with my cleric and i don't care if there gives tons of venos and they are really cheap ****, without a pet or even with an pet for nothing good b:chuckle0
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when i first played veno i was like OMG hp and mp just...come out of nowheres! this was a drastic difference from archer, where hp and mp just...go to nowheres! but i accept that bit about venos because their advantages is what they can contribute to those around them as well. when you squad with a veno, all of her advantages with the pet gets carried over to you. grinding becomes a lot more efficient when a veno pet aggros mobs one after the other for non stop chain killing, plus you dont get hurt much when the pet tanks for you. all of archer's pot expenses just go down the drain with the veno. complaining about venos' pets is like bitching about clerics' heal.0
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mbrunestud wrote: »complaining about venos' pets is like bitching about clerics' heal.
lol I'm not sure about the whole venos being overpowered, but that's an awesome quote XD I also think no pets in duels is stupid. It's part of the class, THEY ARE THE PET CLASS. N00bs >.>0 -
Vienna - Dreamweaver wrote: »I think everyone have found out already that venos dosn't have unfair advantages, to be honest they are total overpowerd for griding & making coins. As my friend have say '' they are cheap **** '', and they are really. When i have change from a cleric to a veno, first i had think, maybe is my char buged, couldn't belive it how easy is everything with an veno. But now i playing it with an veno because it's just so much much more easy to play with him as with my cleric and i don't care if there gives tons of venos and they are really cheap ****, without a pet or even with an pet for nothing good b:chucklembrunestud wrote: »when i first played veno i was like OMG hp and mp just...come out of nowheres! this was a drastic difference from archer, where hp and mp just...go to nowheres! but i accept that bit about venos because their advantages is what they can contribute to those around them as well. when you squad with a veno, all of her advantages with the pet gets carried over to you. grinding becomes a lot more efficient when a veno pet aggros mobs one after the other for non stop chain killing, plus you dont get hurt much when the pet tanks for you. all of archer's pot expenses just go down the drain with the veno. complaining about venos' pets is like bitching about clerics' heal.
I hate people who switch to a veno(generally, but any char for this matter) then state how much easier it is.
Half the reason it's easier is because you know what your doing now, it's your 2nd play through. You know what items are good, and how to save money. Quests in general go quicker, because you've seen them all before(and you know how to play now). You get more money because you are going quicker, and arent as wasteful.
I will say it is a bit easier, but it always gets over-exagerated simply because its a 2nd play through and if you were to start say another cleric/archer you would do much better management then your 1st time through. If your getting hit by mobs while grinding as an archer, your doing something wrong, and if one does get close, winged shell is crazy good. Same with cleric, cyclone kite cyclone kite, plume shell if ones too close.
Personally I've gotten more coins grinding from my archer and cleric than my veno until I got my phoenix.(from a lvl 1-60 perspective)0 -
heh let me clarify something. now that i read it again, it looked like it was a long post about how easy veno was; that wasn't my point. i was just trying to say that venos' advantages can help others around them just as every class' advantages help others around them. a pet is just very useful to everyone in the squad during questing and in instance runs. that is what i meant. the first bit? that was just a reference to veno's regen skills, archers dont have any regen/heal, so it was a nice surprise.
venos are that much better at taking on mobs, and i've come to just accept that. you're able to deal physical and magical damge at the same time, you're able to have a tank with you during battle, you're able to pull a mob out of a bunch of aggressive mobs to deal with them one at a time, all that makes a lot of difference.
as archer, killing quest mobs, which is more predominant in the earlier levels, is much different from grinding. in grinding you choose a mob that you can take out as quickly as possible while taking minimal damage. that means they have how hp, need long channel time to cast, are preferably flying, etc. in those cases yes, it is as easy as pressing 1 button and watching the mob go down. but quests are different. you are faced with mobs you dont ever want to deal with as an archer. questing is a predominant activity during the lower levels, and that is why another class starting out as a veno again may note that it's easier. even now, some quests suck for me. spinewraiths were hell, plumpfish were hell, dragonmaids were hell, those quests that involved killing elites were hell, but since at 7x questing isn't exactly a predominant activity, i can generalize that archer is easy to play at these levels.
(third run through the same quests as wizzie and i was like...wtf magic resis...i seriously have never had to kite against anything pre lvl 20 before as archer or veno)0 -
what actually pushed me to post about this again today was a conversation that went something like this:
barb: can i solo *insert boss name here*?
veno: yes, i did
barb: IF YOU USE A PET IT IS NOT SOLOING. solo = by ONEself (total seriousness)
3rd person: if you use tiger form it is not soloing (sarcasm)
face/desk0 -
I dont bother with making threads or posting my opinion in them anymore so i just put my simple opinion in my sig for everyone to see ^^Facebook.com/foxi187
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
That's been my experience as well. I played with a veno 1-30 first, then a cleric and barb. I felt both cleric and barb leveled pretty easily, but mostly because I knew what I was doing. The barb leveled moderately slower, but I felt a heckuva lot safer than I did when playing the veno. The cleric actually killed stuff faster than the veno, but this was more than canceled out by the extra time needed to med. I just bought a bunch of +mp regen gear off auction house to compensate.Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote: »Half the reason it's easier is because you know what your doing now, it's your 2nd play through. You know what items are good, and how to save money. Quests in general go quicker, because you've seen them all before(and you know how to play now). You get more money because you are going quicker, and arent as wasteful.
The biggest differences I notice with the veno are:
Lack of downtime. But you can mostly replicate that with the cleric and barb if you get the right equipment or use powders (or get a party). And the veno's lack of downtime is partly illusionary (see below).
Control of the fight speed. With a veno you can kill quickly or kill slowly. If you're running low on mp and your mp replenishing skills aren't going to recycle for a bit, you can just slow down your kill rate and let your pet do a greater share of the damage. This creates the illusion of reduced downtime, when in fact your kill rate (kills per hour) is reduced the same as having downtime.
The other classes have only one fighting speed when solo. Cleric is kill fast (and spend time medding to compensate). Barb is kill slow (but able to tank all the damage in those long fights). Both are augmented significantly in a group. The veno isn't.
The veno does have the lowest grinding expenses though.0 -
Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »which part of "pet is part of a veno" do some of you people not understand?
Take them down with out pet... let them see complaining then, knowing that veno's attack is weaker than any other race's attacks.
But on otherside - that would rise even more complains! b:shocked "Venos are so overpowered that they can take other players down without a pet! Oh, noes!"
Just live on with idea that venos are mini squads. Mini because "every squad member" is nerferd:
Veno-wizzard has weaker spells
Veno-cleric has weaker heals/attacks
Veno-barb/Pet-barb can't take damages that well
Veno-BM/Pet-BM has weaker attacks
Pet-archer has weaker and not that effective ranged attacks.
So this mini squad consists of nerfed players who has to switch roles all the time depending on situation...0 -
Obsessed, I just have to say this:
OMG, MY ARCHER WAS SOOOOOO EASY TO LEVEL AFTER MY VENO!! ARCHERS ARE OP!! b:shutup
lol, seriously, though, my archer is sailing through all the levels, up to 44 now, without ANY trouble, and is actually earning MORE money than my Veno did at the same lvls. Why? Exactly what you said: I know how the game works now, so I can play to it's advantages and avoid the disadvantages.0 -
wel basicly i can't say veno's aren't overpowered with the pheonix
or herc
but without herc/pheonix venomancers are almost at same lvl as a wiz
same dmg output as a cleric
but without pushback like wiz
and without heal like cleric
so basicly a venomancer is almost as strong as a wiz or cleric on it's own
but then with the pet the venomancer IS stronger there is no way around that fact :d even PWI developers say it themselves XD
go look on youtube and search for PWI and look at the video's from game developpers themselves they themselves tell the ppl watching that veno's are the strongest race in game so
b:victory there u go :dthanks to forsaken for this awesome sig b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
so tired of this **** -.-; you also have to take into part the builds of the individual not all venos are the same mage veno, light armor, the rare heavy armor builds weather they pvp or not it all has an affect on thier play and their output and plp complain that certain pes dont keep aggro, not like we can pull skill scroll and 5 tame books out our **** and 7mill to learn that skill AND steals our spirit as well and thats just one pet to be decent we have to upgrade them all or plp complain, so really its like damn if we do and damn if we dont b:surrender0
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venos are not a prob its the ream...
anyone who thinks veno is OP if not for ream is fcked up0 -
Inias - Heavens Tear wrote: »wel basicly i can't say veno's aren't overpowered with the pheonix or herc
but without herc/pheonix venomancers are almost at same lvl as a wiz
same dmg output as a cleric
but without pushback like wiz
and without heal like cleric
so basicly a venomancer is almost as strong as a wiz or cleric on it's own
but then with the pet the venomancer IS stronger there is no way around that fact :d even PWI developers say it themselves XD
go look on youtube and search for PWI and look at the video's from game developpers themselves they themselves tell the ppl watching that veno's are the strongest race in game so
b:victory there u go :d
Lol, same damage output as Cleric? Aren't you just comparing typical pure int veno to typical vit cleric? If you do the math, it's quite clear that venos has less attack power given same build and equip, not to mention only wood based damage, compared to both magical and physical for Clerics. Venos tend to go pure more often because they have pet to tank. Their attacks are definitely weaker and more limited than Clerics/Wiz.0 -
Inias - Heavens Tear wrote: »wel basicly i can't say veno's aren't overpowered with the pheonix or herc
but without herc/pheonix venomancers are almost at same lvl as a wiz
same dmg output as a cleric
but without pushback like wiz
and without heal like cleric
so basicly a venomancer is almost as strong as a wiz or cleric on it's own
but then with the pet the venomancer IS stronger there is no way around that fact :d even PWI developers say it themselves XD
go look on youtube and search for PWI and look at the video's from game developpers themselves they themselves tell the ppl watching that veno's are the strongest race in game so
b:victory there u go :d
Like Mothergoose said, this is just plain wrong. If you don't believe me, look at the dmg calcs for the spells on ecatomb. Wizards are just a bit more powerful than clerics, with almost twice the number of attack spells and more status effects on those spells, while Venos are substantially lower than either, with fewest attack spells of all (by one) and very few status effects (with DoT the most common, and useless).0 -
Veno itself isnt OP, having a nix exploit the flesh realm bug is what makes our class awfully **** to fight agaisnt in pvp.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
^^ Made by Saitada ^^
Dieho: I win 15 on 1, I roll all of your guild to sz all by myself !
Lessie: Proof?
Dieho: I dont have any, but my word is more than enough.
Lessie: Well I won 33 on 1 the other day
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*absorbed everything*
but still no one's commented on the second half of the mental 'tardation some people have. that other half being those people who think a veno using a pet to kill a boss is not soloing. it's the absolute stupidest thing ive ever heard, yet so many people seem to be saying it lately.0 -
I didn't mean that venos would be overpowerd in dmg. That's for sure not, but no matter how you turn it, they have an huge advantage over all other classes because of they pet for griding, quests.....
Sure i know it better now where to find mobs, quests.....as i have did it the first time. But the fact is that it gives huge difference if you shoot with an cleric on a Tauroc....or with an Veno. Sure i can use all my healing & defence skills with an cleric and it won't be hard to grid even on Taurcs, but then, be ready to use tons of mana = coins, focus powder alone wont be by far not enough if you must use so many skills. Say hello to mp charms which he gonna burn up verry quickly if you must or wanna play it that way to push your char to such limits.
Not only that i don't need to care on what kind of mobs i shoot, my veno also use way, way less mp ( because his skills use way less mp + i don't need to use x skills to kill 1 mob, for hp i anyway don't need to look.0 -
Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote: »I hate people who switch to a veno(generally, but any char for this matter) then state how much easier it is.
Well hate me if you want, but I honestly think the Veno class is more for beginners. In my opinion it's easy mode on PW, which is why there are so many Venos now. I played a Veno well before I got into this game and got use to it controls and Veno was much easier. They aren't called excellent soloers for nothing.0 -
There must be a reason people switch from Veno to something else. If Venos are so OP, why don't all those whiners just use veno then? The option to play Veno is open and fair to everyone. Could it be that when they play veno, it's not so OP anymore? And they just wanted to pretend it's OP while playing something else so they can **** at the unfairness of life?b:chuckle0
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Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »There must be a reason people switch from Veno to something else. If Venos are so OP, why don't all those whiners just use veno then? -Not everyone has the time to start over and level a veno to their main's level, nor have a ton of money to go cash shopping for the best mounts or clothes and such all over again. Simple answer to a simple question
The option to play Veno is open and fair to everyone. Could it be that when they play veno, it's not so OP anymore? And they just wanted to pretend it's OP while playing something else so they can **** at the unfairness of life?b:chuckle
If these threads bother you guys so much, then ask an admin or mod to lock them or simply ignore them. I rather enjoy them though. I like seeing what type of response will come from some venos.b:pleased
You guys are complaining about whiners, but it appears you all are doing the exact same thing every time a thread comes up....whine about the threads. If you don't want to end up a hypocrite, then please ignore the threads and let it die.0 -
I did state its a bit easier, but its not overpoweringly easier as many claim. Every class has their ways for efficient mob killing, whether is kiting or just straight up tanking.Siege - Dreamweaver wrote: »Well hate me if you want, but I honestly think the Veno class is more for beginners. In my opinion it's easy mode on PW, which is why there are so many Venos now. I played a Veno well before I got into this game and got use to it controls and Veno was much easier. They aren't called excellent soloers for nothing.
Somebody said "but I never even though to kite on my veno cuz I didnt need to" or something along those lines, but a veno couldnt kite even if it wanted to.. it has no slow/knockback skills and a crappy stun.
It cant tank like the melees either, lack of hp and defense buffs. Each class has different play styles to get through mobs, venos is "easier" but thats not neccisarily better.0 -
Or, you could meditate. A cleric killing/meditating will probably kill at a comparable rate in an hour to a Veno killing straight. The difference is the cleric will kill fast/rest/kill fast/rest whereas the Veno just kills slowly, and kills slowly, and kills slowly. MP charms, focus powder, potions, etc. are shortcuts for Clerics and wizards and archers to kill quickly over a long period of time, but it costs money to do so.Vienna - Dreamweaver wrote: »Sure i know it better now where to find mobs, quests.....as i have did it the first time. But the fact is that it gives huge difference if you shoot with an cleric on a Tauroc....or with an Veno. Sure i can use all my healing & defence skills with an cleric and it won't be hard to grid even on Taurcs, but then, be ready to use tons of mana = coins, focus powder alone wont be by far not enough if you must use so many skills. Say hello to mp charms which he gonna burn up verry quickly if you must or wanna play it that way to push your char to such limits.
Venos are easy to start, and yes, probably the easiest class for the first 30-40 lvls, but things get complicated. Playing a good Veno at high levels is not easy. It takes a lot of multitasking and carrying multiple variables in your head at the same time. This is why I (and I'd guess most high lvl venos) love the Veno class so much. I actually enjoy multitasking and carrying multiple variables at the same time. I'm good at it.Siege - Dreamweaver wrote: »Well hate me if you want, but I honestly think the Veno class is more for beginners. In my opinion it's easy mode on PW, which is why there are so many Venos now. I played a Veno well before I got into this game and got use to it controls and Veno was much easier. They aren't called excellent soloers for nothing.
Just to be clear, I have talked to many lower lvl Venos who made one for looks or having a cute pet easily, and many of them find it very hard to lvl or make money. They die constantly. Most give up to one degree or another and make another character, which they then declare to be so much easier than their Veno. Why? Because they weren't good at the Veno's playstyle, they were good at something else. When they started playing what they were good at, it was a piece of cake. When they played what they weren't good at, it was hard and they died a lot.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »That's been my experience as well. I played with a veno 1-30 first, then a cleric and barb. I felt both cleric and barb leveled pretty easily, but mostly because I knew what I was doing. The barb leveled moderately slower, but I felt a heckuva lot safer than I did when playing the veno. The cleric actually killed stuff faster than the veno, but this was more than canceled out by the extra time needed to med. I just bought a bunch of +mp regen gear off auction house to compensate.
The biggest differences I notice with the veno are:
Lack of downtime. But you can mostly replicate that with the cleric and barb if you get the right equipment or use powders (or get a party). And the veno's lack of downtime is partly illusionary (see below).
Control of the fight speed. With a veno you can kill quickly or kill slowly. If you're running low on mp and your mp replenishing skills aren't going to recycle for a bit, you can just slow down your kill rate and let your pet do a greater share of the damage. This creates the illusion of reduced downtime, when in fact your kill rate (kills per hour) is reduced the same as having downtime.
The other classes have only one fighting speed when solo. Cleric is kill fast (and spend time medding to compensate). Barb is kill slow (but able to tank all the damage in those long fights). Both are augmented significantly in a group. The veno isn't.
The veno does have the lowest grinding expenses though.
Somewhat disagree about the bolded part.
If you feel comfortable in a certain area you can do the following:
Your mana replenish is on cooldown and your mana is running low (let's say you're down to 1000 mana).
You can use Soul Transfusion to switch your HP value with your Mana value and thereby regain a ton of mana. You can bring your life back up with your life replenish skill.
Obviously, this requires you to not get hit a lot, if at all, but the upside is you do not suffer any kill speed reductions via mana, since you can interchangeably use your Life and Mana replenish skills only for your mana.
I find this method very useful when grinding in areas, where mobs aren't piled up in groups since i do not have to worry much about my pet or me fighting several mobs at a time.
Health = Mana = Consistency.0 -
mbrunestud wrote: »bah people will say a lot of things when they lose. like "you kited", or "you used a skill to heal", or "you used spark".
it doesnt even matter what those people think. no need to make another thread seriously. pretty sure they are in the minority
The second one in particularly gets on my nerves.
A lot of people seem to believe that as long as I don't use a pet, don't use leech, and/or don't use soul transfusion, then it's a fair fight. In other words, I'm expected to handicap myself by not using my three most powerful skills. =p
This kind of whining has made me sick of duels.0 -
Siege - Dreamweaver wrote: »Well hate me if you want, but I honestly think the Veno class is more for beginners.
In my opinion it's easy mode on PW, which is why there are so many Venos now.
I played a Veno well before I got into this game and got use to it controls and Veno was much easier.
They aren't called excellent soloers for nothing.
Why would anyone hate you for posting something that was nothing beyond your opinion? Especially considering only the last of your seemingly unconnected statements was actually a fact.Kuroni - Heavens Tear wrote: »If these threads bother you guys so much, then ask an admin or mod to lock them or simply ignore them. I rather enjoy them though. I like seeing what type of response will come from some venos.b:pleased
You guys are complaining about whiners, but it appears you all are doing the exact same thing every time a thread comes up....whine about the threads. If you don't want to end up a hypocrite, then please ignore the threads and let it die.
You obviously don't get it, so let me break it down for you.
Recently there have been a lot of threads complaining about venos, and players jump into them making claims that are simply untrue, or what is simply their jaded opinion, or somplaining about this or that. If no one ever countered these claims, then a new player who has never played a veno will probably believe that they are true since they simply don't know. Then when a veno does something like beat them in PvP, or do something they cannot do chances are they will be unhappy because, based on what they think they know, they will believe that venos have a seemingly unfair advantage somehow. They will in turn spread what they think they know to other players. At the end of the chain is the player who gets some twisted version of what the first player thought they knew.
I will admit that it is funny to see someone actually create a toon to make a single post on the forums. b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
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