did rare pet spawn time got **** up?

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Well lets see, the previous few mmos I played died because of player greed, the REAL LIFE econ has died due to greed. If you don't see a problem with greed, you ARE the problem. Greed needs to be stopped. Greed should be banned from this game and from real life.

Devarsi - Sanctuary

eh preach against greed all you want.. it has always been in our world and will always be .. sure its bad but its something that has to be dealt with and worked around .. greed is also a good motivation factor for innovation..

people in the US in a capitalistic economy make new things to make money.. not to help others (well this is a generalization .. not saying everyone does this)

FionaCattail - Sanctuary

I agree.. plus the prices they are asking is outrageous.. I mean 1M for a kowlin? don't know of any all class pets that require a kowlin.. armored bear and shadou, I can understand being a bit more expensive than the others because they are needed for all classes, but 1M is rediculous...


then you also have the people who camp the spots just so they can kill the spawn.. causing it to become even more rare and jacking the prices up higher

Devarsi - Sanctuary

you are right fiona.. but for some reason people keep paying.. and as long as there is a veno willing to pay 1m coin for a kowlin.. there is gonna be a group of venos there trying to get money off it..

Coshten - Sanctuary

Agreed but sadly it will never happen... Humans have always wanted what they don't have... If one has it, they don't want it anymore... Its human nature and it sucks... I do wish players would realize this is just a game tho and stop bein so greedy on everything tho and help out their fellow players... The only way people help others is if they're in their guild (so in turn helping themselves) or if its something like a fb or TT ( again, helping themselves) and that is sad... In the pet instance, it may take more than one egg to make an all-class-pet so if someone, thats not a veno, wants one then maybe they should stop bashing venos at every turn and be nice to people and someone would just make you one for free, thats considering the jerks camping the spawn would shove off sometimes and let other people get one... I mean, its not like the things are gonna quit spawning... There is plenty of ways to make money without **** others over...

Calliope - Heavens Tear

FionaCattail - Sanctuary wrote: »

I agree.. plus the prices they are asking is outrageous.. I mean 1M for a kowlin? don't know of any all class pets that require a kowlin.. armored bear and shadou, I can understand being a bit more expensive than the others because they are needed for all classes, but 1M is rediculous...

Kowlin comes with Flesh Ream lvl 4. To put that on some pet without Flesh Ream costs 300k (learn) + 200k (upgrade) + 200k (upgrade) + 200k (upgrade), or 900k for the skill alone.

That, plus the speed, plus the decent stats, make Kowlin a high-demand item.

FionaCattail - Sanctuary

true, however at lvl 83, a good majority of the mobs in TT1-3 have the ability to 1 shot a kowlin, making his speed and abilities a moot point..

Devarsi - Sanctuary

o.O I know a lvl 77 veno that lures in 1-3 with a kowlin just fine .. it only dies every now and then in that room with the 2 bone ragers (roaming) and mobster and archer all together

FionaCattail - Sanctuary

Devarsi - Sanctuary wrote: »

o.O I know a lvl 77 veno that lures in 1-3 with a kowlin just fine .. it only dies every now and then in that room with the 2 bone ragers (roaming) and mobster and archer all together

that's true, though there are very few venos that know how to lure properly (i.e. put the pet away as it starts it's skill, it'll finish the skill then go away without taking damage)..

Evga - Sanctuary

Kiittyara - Sanctuary wrote: »

the kowlin has pretty good stats and since it's really fast its good for pulling...i use it as my main pet. and the cubs are all expensive cause of jerks like evga that makes sure only he can get them

boo hoo, go cry to your mom... and i don't always get it. there are people, mostly my friends cause they are nice enough to talk politely instead of shooting off enraged pm, that catches shaodu cub even if i'm there.

and why won't i try my best to increase the chance of me getting the rare pet? that's like saying, why won't i use everything i got in a TW or maybe to grind. maybe you shouldn't grind with scroll, then i might just try a bit less harder to catch the shaodu cub

Isala - Sanctuary

FionaCattail - Sanctuary wrote: »

that's true, though there are very few venos that know how to lure properly (i.e. put the pet away as it starts it's skill, it'll finish the skill then go away without taking damage)..

Yeah. That's the proper way to do it. Not too hard with a really fast pet.

But, really, if worst comes to worst, and everything oneshots your lure pets, it is, in fact, possible to lure with any pet in the game. In areas that oneshot my lure pet of choice (Sower of the Flames) I simply switch to my Magmite. Yeah, he's slow. It's not as fast, but he doesn't die, and the job still gets done.

On the topic of pet farmers, and such.

I really don't care if you farm the pet to sell, or give to your friends. If you've got the power to do so, congratz. You've put forth the effort to make yourself a pet taming fiend. Me, I'll put forth the effort to level, and make myself more powerful, so I can kill things.

NOW. As for those of you who decide to kill said pets, so that nobody else can have them, you just better hope that the majority of us don't find you in PK mode. Because, then, we will slaughter you, like you do the pets. Accidents happen, yeah. I've killed one or two by complete mistake. But when you camp the same pet, over and over again, with your DD pet out, so it dies in one shot, that's complete and utter BS. I see people like that, and I do everything in my power to stop them. Gigantic golem over them, Swiftshadow on the head, whatever it takes to ensure that they can't see a thing. I'm looking forward to that gigantic ice mob, that's even huger than a golem, to cause even more screen blockage. Am I walking a fine line about griefing? Perhaps. But so is the person dedicated to killing a pet. And since it's pretty much been said that pet killing is a "Don't really care" subject, any preventative measure we enact to prevent said killing should fall under the same category, am I right?

Point I'm trying to make is this. No matter what the reason, people show up at pet spawns. Some are trying to tame it for themselves. Some want it for friends. Some use them to make a profit. And then you have those who only want to kill it. Which is the biggest annoyance here? Someone trying to tame a pet, for whatever reason, or the person who is ruining it for everyone? In my opinion, it's pretty obvious who the real villains are.

If the pets really mean that much to you, put forth the effort to become equal, or even superior to the ones that are getting them. If they aren't worth the effort to ensure your success, move on. Go tame something else. There are plenty of "Common" pets you never see anyone using. Go make yourself different. I'm a proud owner of an Undine Tide Mistress. You know how many of those I see running around? I had a level 70+ ask me where I found it the other day. (It's in FB59, by the way. Run the water path without wine. You can't miss it.) Heck, use a Jaden Qingfu or something. Or a Tuskmore, or Rhinodrake, a Lynxus, an Adalwolf, etc... "Rare pets" are anything but now. You know how many people are running around with "Rare pets"? You aren't going to make yourself different by owning one of those. You'll just be one of the several Venos who think they're unique.

And just in case you're curious, yes, I do own a Rare pet. A Snow Hare. Not because he's rare, or I wanted to feel important. I only wanted him because, for right now, until I can get a Huggy Hare, it's the only bunny I can have at the moment. And I kinda liked the idea of a bunny fighting along side a bunny.

Devarsi - Sanctuary

evga i asked you to give my gf a chance at it and you told me to tell her to go to the other spawn and that you would keep killing or catching it.. you are just making up bs now haha..

i think its **** to be so greedy in a game but if thats how you wanna play go for it.. i hope you feel accomplished for being rich in a game

valvs

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

But when you camp the same pet, over and over again, with your DD pet out, so it dies in one shot, that's complete and utter BS.

Now, that is something that I wholeheardetly agree with. If someone tames a pet for sale, the pet still stays in game. Someone will still enjoy it. But killing it on purpose is just low, no matter if they do it to keep prices high or just from pure cussedness.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Zoe's semantics may be unclear, but the meaning of her statement should be pretty obvious: People who will use the pet should take priority over people who merely wish to sell it. a.k.a. Need before greed.

Technically, nobody "needs" anything in this game since it's merely a form of entertainment. But there are finer gradations of necessity than just "need" vs. "want".

The problem with her "semantics" is that she is saying that anyone who would sell them for anything more than zero profit is greedy. The problem with using the concept "people who would use the pet should get the petegg" (aka "need") is how do you determine they are actually going to use it as a battlepet on that character? You simply cannot do so effectively since peteggs have to be hatched before they can be used as a battlepet.


On the subject of "needing" the petegg.

How do you deterimine who has more of a "need" of the pet egg? If you use level as the deciding factor, then does the level 9 have more of a "need" to tame a treefrog than a level 20+? What about the snow hare? Does a level 20 have more of a "need" then a level 30+? How they intend to use the petegg? How long they intend to use it? If they decide after a few levels of using the pet as a battlepet and then sells it should someone else have gotten the petegg instead since the player that did get it decided they didn't really need it that much afterall for whatever reason?


IMHO, there is no "need vs greed" argument since rare tameable pets are not vital to playing a veno, and it comes down to a simple case of "want".

Solandri - Heavens Tear

valvs wrote: »

And, if the veno subforum is any indication, the main reason people try to get rare pets is "I was so sick of every veno running around with a golem that I got me a shaodu cub. It is so cute!"

I got the cub because I was tired of having to shift-click on everything through my golem, and it seemed like the best all-around tank that I could take with me to the end of the game (this was before the herc and phoenix came out). And he's cute.

I totally agree, but, first of all, our pets upgrade themselves each time they level . Besides. you can improve your exising pets by upgrading their skills or training new ones, or you can tame new non-rare pets for specific occasions. Rare pets are definitely not something you need. It is more of a luxury.

Different people play the game for different reasons. I play to try to optimize (among other things) my build. Several of the rares are a necessity for that.

And you know what I am sick of? People complaining about every little bit of competition in a MMORPG. (Not directed at you, Darksylph). If something is rare, it was meant to be rare and competed for. I actually tried to get a piggy for myself (to use as my own pet, not for sale). I failed. Do I hate the guts of my fellow player who managed to grab it before me? No. He or she had every right to do so, and I don't care whether it will be used as a pet, or combined with several more eggs to make an all-class pet, or just sold or given to another player. I had exactly the same opportunity as the next guy to tame it. I was beaten to it. Big deal. If I decide that I really want a piggy or a shaodu, I can always buy one off AH. And so can any other veno in this game.

Ok, I see where you're coming from. I totally agree with you on this. I don't have a problem with people farming and selling rare pets. I would prefer it not be that way; that people who had never tamed a specific rare pet got priority over someone farming it for profit. But the game is not set up like that, so there's really not much point in arguing. Someone farming the pets for profit is doing nothing wrong. Annoying maybe, but not wrong. Just like if you go to a favorite grind spot and someone else is already there. It's annoying, but he has just as much right to it as you do.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The problem with her "semantics" is that she is saying that anyone who would sell them for anything more than zero profit is greedy.

Agreed that Zoe is off the wall on a lot of things. My reasoning just happens to coincide with hers here.

How do you deterimine who has more of a "need" of the pet egg? If you use level as the deciding factor, then does the level 9 have more of a "need" to tame a treefrog than a level 20+? What about the snow hare? Does a level 20 have more of a "need" then a level 30+? How they intend to use the petegg? How long they intend to use it? If they decide after a few levels of using the pet as a battlepet and then sells it should someone else have gotten the petegg instead since the player that did get it decided they didn't really need it that much afterall for whatever reason?

IMHO, there is no "need vs greed" argument since rare tameable pets are not vital to playing a veno, and it comes down to a simple case of "want".

I disagree. My reasoning is from a straightforward efficiency standpoint. The rare egg will eventually be used, mostly likely as a veno pet (ignore the all-class pets for brevity). The fewer steps are needed to get to that endpoint, the more efficient the process is and the less effort and wasted energy is expended by everyone overall. If a veno trying to catch the rare is going to use it as their pet, then that's the most efficient process possible. Rare spawns, veno catches rare, veno uses it. It's all over in 3-30 seconds, and everyone can go back to doing other things.

A farmer reselling the egg adds an extra step which decreases the efficiency of the process. Farmer catches rare, lists it on AH or puts it on a cat shop, people have to find it and bid on it. Maybe a bidding war starts, and someone who wanted to get to sleep has to stay up for a few more hours to participate in this bidding war. Finally someone gets the egg and turns it into a pet for use. Extra steps, extra time and energy wasted, so I consider this to be an inferior process to the veno planning to use the egg just capture it themselves. This is why I feel "need before greed" applies here. If a person who plans to use the pet is there at the spawn, there's no reason to add extra steps in getting that egg to a final user.

But like I said in the previous post, this is just an issue of optimization. The game isn't set up so optimization is a requirement, so I don't feel the farmers are doing anything wrong. (Technically, you could say the farmers do add value to the system by allowing those whose schedules don't allow them to attend the rare spawns to have access to the rares.)

xtinct23

Devarsi - Sanctuary wrote: »

evga i asked you to give my gf a chance at it and you told me to tell her to go to the other spawn and that you would keep killing or catching it.. you are just making up bs now haha..

i think its **** to be so greedy in a game but if thats how you wanna play go for it.. i hope you feel accomplished for being rich in a game

Evga is a useless pos. You want to tame them, fine. My problem with you comes from the fact that you kill it purposely if you fail. That makes you a greedy pos.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Veno A and Veno B are at the cub spawn. Veno A has never had a rare pet before, they heard that the cub is a decent tank and they don't like the size of the golem so they are here. Veno B knows that Veno A wants the pet and for what reasons. The moment the pet appears, Veno B tames it, then tries to sell it to Veno A for 1.6 million.

If that is not greedy, I don't know what the hell is.

Hisui - Heavens Tear

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Nothing to do with all class pets. There are too many venos that show up, tame the pet, the put it in the AH a minute later. That is simply wrong.

Leave the pets for those who need them. No pets should ever be sold for more than the NPC cost of making the all class.

tell that to all the ppl who sell mid mats.

>_>

Saitada - Sanctuary

Ya'll need to over it already. Taming is a matter of luck and skill and gear and potions. If your not lucky, o well. Deal with it. I've been known to kill rare spawns simply because I had an issue with a person at the spawn that was trying to capture it themselves, or their faction, and refuse to allow them to have it. Part of the game. Get used to it and move on with your lives.

And hey, if you have the luck in catching it and want to sell it... that is your business and again, get over it. That is how the ball bounces.

Greed has nothing to do with it. If I was greedy, I would set alts up at the spawn spots and kill the spawns for a few months to jack the prices up. I have 3 computers and could easily jack the price up of the Kowlin, and the Shadou Cub and I wouldn't think a thing of doing it. So be happy I'm not doing that (and yes, I have more than 3 accounts as well.)

~S

Divine_Demon - Heavens Tear

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Taming them just to get rich by selling them = greed. Period.

There are tons of venos that want them to use them. Making them buy the pets from you is greedy.

its not greedy. not to me. if you already are rich that is considered greedy. if your as poor as **** i would do it and resell it for 500k (pretty cheap) so i can get some cash. just becasue im poor and want to make some money doesnt mean im greedy period.

Qqmoar - Harshlands

lol show me a poor veno. Think before you speak.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Qqmoar - Harshlands wrote: »

lol show me a poor veno. Think before you speak.

You think it's cheap keeping your skills, your pet etc up to date? My veno is broke as hell.

Saitada - Sanctuary

Qqmoar - Harshlands wrote: »

Think before you speak.

You should take your own advice.

~S

Flauschkatze - Heavens Tear

Qqmoar - Harshlands wrote: »

lol show me a poor veno. Think before you speak.

have you ever seen the prices for pet skills? prices for food; expanding the pet bag?
the only advantage venos have is low repair costs if they manage not to run into any (respawning) mobs.

do you have a proof that venos have more money than everyone else?
do you think all venos sell rare pets and earn their money with them? have you ever been at a spawn place? IF someone catches a rare pet that didn't get killed, who is probably going to buy it? - other venos who couldn't catch it by themselves mainly. where did they get their money from? b:question

what does that have to do with the original topic anyway?

bzbee

Qqmoar - Harshlands wrote: »

lol show me a poor veno. Think before you speak.

LOL the ignorance and bias of a non veno.

FYI I am 'rich' and I am a veno BUT the money did not come from being a veno. It doesn't take a veno to farm mats or buy gold.

I don't camp rare pets, I don't bother to try to tame any because there is too much competition.

People really need to differentiate between need and want. This may be a game but the definitions do not change. Yes, some rare pets have slightly better stats but not to the point that your gameplay would be drastically affected by it. Most people don't have rare pets and they play the game just fine.

As I mentioned, I didn't use a rare pet until someone gave me a windwalking piggy for free. A perfect stranger who was being verbally abused at all the spawn spots because he/she apparently had -channelling gear which pretty much gives her an advantage on the taming. I think I was the only one who didn't trash her which could explain why she mailed a rare pet to a perfect stranger. Is that greed on her part? I think not. Oh and btw, the other venoes killed the rare pet to ensure she didn't get it at both the spawn sites I was present at.

If you want to call taming for profit greedy, then quite honestly I would rather have a greedy veno than a selfish one....the ones who kill just to ensure the so called greedy veno doesn't get it.

Oh and you may wish to call those non venoes walking around with rare allclass pets how greedy they are for not letting a veno make use of a rare pet instead of making it into an accessory.

Evga - Sanctuary

Devarsi - Sanctuary wrote: »

evga i asked you to give my gf a chance at it and you told me to tell her to go to the other spawn and that you would keep killing or catching it.. you are just making up bs now haha..

i think its **** to be so greedy in a game but if thats how you wanna play go for it.. i hope you feel accomplished for being rich in a game

rofl, i was giving an honest opinion. as a beginner she has a better chance of taming it over there. and it's because i assume she is new to taming and thus a channeling speed is slow like hell. I on the other hand have about -70% channeling and that is the reason why i use kowlin and because of that she will have no change at all as a beginner.

that is the reason why i say go to the other side. btw, i'm busy and i don't play the game about 15 hours a week or less. in that amount of time spread over 7 days make me not able to earn decent amount of money any other way. Plus, i don't hoard the money. i use them to buy stuff that usaully requires time to obtain. like TT, fragment, or armor.

anyway, if i were to have more time to play and earn money other ways like TT farming i would have. but i don't, so i have to find alternate method

Kiittyara - Sanctuary

dude, i'm not a beginner. I just don't happen to have coin to buy tons of -channeling gear and all that stuff. and i'm sure the level 20 venos that want the cub too aren't gonna have that gear or know about the potions, so it's more unfair for them than for me.

Devarsi - Sanctuary

i didn't say it was an honest opinion.. i was just calling bs on your previous statement .. i couldn't care less how much you play or what you do to make money.. i just think its stupid to exploit rare pets like that .. i also think its stupid to be so serious about an in game economy.. all of your talk of "well if i don't get it i wanna make sure someone else doesn't so the price doesn't drop" .. but some people like playing that way.. so meh whatever .. i just don't agree with it

you don't hoarde the money? you use it to buy stuff? no way .. being greedy doesn't mean you keep tons of coin to just have coin..

i just hope one day that venos wisen up and stop paying 1+ mil for rare pets ..

Isala - Sanctuary

Qqmoar - Harshlands wrote: »

lol show me a poor veno. Think before you speak.

Yo.

I'm so poor, I have to grind before I can do Crazy Stone.

And don't bring up the LRN 2 PLAY UR CLASS **** everyone else does. It's a simple matter of income over spending. I make money. Woo hoo. Now I can mark off one of my BAJILLION things to spend it on. Let's count down the list for most venos here.

1. Skills.

There are quite a few of those I've been trying to max for ages.

2. Pet skills.

Pulling aggro of your pet isn't fun. Better upgrade a skill so you don't become a snack.

3. Gear.

Yeah, I know, I could wear no armor and hide behind my pet, right? WRONG. You're going to get attacked. I have to either make it, which costs me a fortune if I don't have the mats, or buy it from an NPC, which gives me crappy generic armor.

4. Repair costs.

Nowhere near a Barb, but it's still a drain on the old wallet.

5. Food.

Yeah, it doesn't cost a fortune to buy a single water. But you start buying in bulk like you need to, so you don't have to go to town every 5 minutes, it really hits hard when you do have the money to buy it.

6. Crazy Stone.

I could skip this, but it would cost me levelling speed, so the cost is worth the output.

7. Potions.

Some venos don't have to buy them, but I always keep stocked up just in case.

---

Now, let's talk more specifics, so you know what I'm getting at here.

1. Skills. It's been ages since I've seen as skill cost less than 50k. A handful of mine are 140k to upgrade. I do both trees, so, without bothering to make you all suffer through the math, just calculate it based on your class. You know how much skills generally cost. Now, imagine trying to max every skill you have, which is what I'm trying to do. Pretty chunk of change there.

2. Pet Skills. For my main pet, calculating what I plan to have on him, fully maxed, it'll cost me 4 million. If I stay with only the 10 pets I can fit in my bag, taking into account that some have less skills, and some have more, and use that as an average, we're looking at about 40 million here.

3. Gear. Since most mats my level cost about a good 4k or so to buy, and most gear requires at least 10, if not more of said various mats, I'm looking at about 40k to make my gear, or about 10k or so, I believe to buy the useless NPC garbage. Per piece. And you outgrow your armor about every 10 levels, and your weapon even faster.

4. Repair costs. Those vary a bit, based on how long you fight, or how well you hide behind your pet. I've seen as low as 1k, and as high as 20k.

5. Food. Water costs 52 coins. For 5 minutes of use, give or take, based on pet. I buy in bulk. 1k water at a time, for a total of 52k, for 5000 minutes of play, or in terms of hours, 83 hours and 20 minutes. I tend to average around, say, 21 hours a week. So round a bit, and that costs me 52k a month.

6. Crazy Stone. At my level, it's just over 20k a day.

7. Potions. Depending on the size you buy, you're looking at about 100, to 1k per potion. For instant healers, quite a bit more. I always make sure I have 35 of each HP, and MP potion, and 10 of Elixirs a few steps below my HP and MP. That's a constant drain everytime I visit a town. Supplemented by drops, yes, so it's not an extreme drain. But it's still one more thing you have to buy.

Now, if you followed me through that entire wall of text, or hey, even if you didn't, here's the point I just made. I'll put it in big, bold letters, so that nobody, not even you, can miss it.

Venos may make money, but just like every single class in this entire game, we all have expenses. Stop being an idiot, and generalizing venos as always rich, when in the end, it all comes down to what you do with the money you make.