Cleric out damage mages lol - again

Ninnuam - Sanctuary

It's not? Looked like that to me =] You know I'm right tho b:laugh
Peace out b:victory

Cyanea - Lost City

XAsch - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hah, well Barb's outdamage EVERYONE!

But archers tank better than anyone!

b:chuckle

AndromedaB - Sanctuary

Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Demon Spirit's Gift:
Increase the target's weapon magic attack bonus by 70% for 60 minutes.

Demon version grants an additional 150% to magic attack for the first 10 seconds.

Undine Strike:
During the fight with the Winged Elves, the grand Wizard Tien suggested that the Wizards ought learn from the Winged Elves and their combat spells. Hence two brand-new spells were developed to greatly enhance the battlefield activities of the Wizard. Undine Strike was one of them. As one of the most effective elemental spells, Undine Strike adopts a part of its essence from the Winged Elves' Elemental Seal. It also deals magic damage to the target. However, because grand Wizard Tien was too specialized in Earth element, the spell deals lesser Earth damage to the target, but reduces it's Water, Fire, and Earth resistance by 60% for 12 seconds.


220% from weapon attack isnt so much when some one lowers your resistance by 60%, again wiz's win in dmg.

And spamming a spell that costs 600mp per cast isnt valid.

deamon makes it 150 for first 10 seconds dosent stack

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've seen a lvl75 cleric die to a 1-2 percussion aoe under a barb hp buff. And that's just sad ya know?

Maybe that cleric didnt invest in updating his gear?? I know our 60s cleric died to an aoe hit from drum (I know their way too low lv but they just came for the fun) but I remember at 75 I did just fine with its aoe dmg as a solo healer BB.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Remember, hes not talking of a usual situation. Outdamaging a wiz would be unlikely, yes. Hes talking about THE perfect situation and senario that can be used to test it out. There is nothing bad about experimenting and exploring. Most of the pple on the forum seem to shun these threads just because it doesnt fit their description of the norm and even go their way to post to belittle them.

Forp - Heavens Tear

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Remember, hes not talking of a usual situation. Outdamaging a wiz would be unlikely, yes. Hes talking about THE perfect situation and senario that can be used to test it out. There is nothing bad about experimenting and exploring. Most of the pple on the forum seem to shun these threads just because it doesnt fit their description of the norm and even go their way to post to belittle them.

i've argued with mysticfailx so many times it's just tiring. he's as arrogant as they come. if you disagree, he throws a fit. he honestly believes, without a doubt, he can out damage a mage. everybody knows it's impossible, but he thinks he can do it. he's been trying to say they could for a long time.

i think the fac guide put it in his head. that waste of space should be deleted.

Advent_fox - Sanctuary

you do realize this is a game, and in that people can do what they want. I see nothing wrong with a FA Cleric. If someone wishes to do it let them

Saying that guide is a total waste of space and that the build is just a waste of time is just being childish.

Let people do what they want, I personally love the ideas and builds people have come up with.

Everyone just needs to calm down and chill, enough with the bashing and play the game

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary

Advent_fox - Sanctuary wrote: »

you do realize this is a game, and in that people can do what they want. I see nothing wrong with a FA Cleric. If someone wishes to do it let them

Saying that guide is a total waste of space and that the build is just a waste of time is just being childish.

Let people do what they want, I personally love the ideas and builds people have come up with.

Everyone just needs to calm down and chill, enough with the bashing and play the game

Absolutely. Well said.

Forp - Heavens Tear

this is the forum, not the game. i'll do what i please here. fac doesn't exist after 60, who cares. you don't even matter until 9x.

Advent_fox - Sanctuary

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

this is the forum, not the game. i'll do what i please here. fac doesn't exist after 60, who cares. you don't even matter until 9x.

there are some people in the world who won't ever make it past 60, there are many people who will never go into a TW. A lot of people just want to pVe, let them

If I was just starting this game and reading this forum I might get turned off of doing a FA cleric because you have said so. . You are 75 so very credible, even still, It's not fair to people just starting out

what you say has an impact on others. .

Forp - Heavens Tear

the thing is, the term "full attack" is taken too literally. that's why i say it the way i do. i've met people my level with NO healing ability. no res ability. nothing. why? they read that fac guide, they saw "full attack" and went with it. if anything, change it to "attack cleric", or "combat cleric" or something. "full attack" is too direct.

AndromedaB - Sanctuary

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

the thing is, the term "full attack" is taken too literally. that's why i say it the way i do. i've met people my level with NO healing ability. no res ability. nothing. why? they read that fac guide, they saw "full attack" and went with it. if anything, change it to "attack cleric", or "combat cleric" or something. "full attack" is too direct.

a cleric with no heal/rez is so useless

Advent_fox - Sanctuary

AndromedaB - Sanctuary wrote: »

a cleric with no heal/rez is so useless

yes, useless to you. . but maybe they want to play that type of character. . why is it wrong for them to try??





and yes I agree with you forp in the sense that most ppl really are just attack clerics. . but just because someone tries to be a FA cleric does not make them useless

Forp - Heavens Tear

a cleric is the opposite of a mage. clerics are defensive nukes, where as a mage is an offensive nuke.

mages do more damage, and have skills based around avoiding ever being hit(distance shrink, will of the phoenix, force of will).

clerics do less damage, but have the ability to heal them self, and control both the ability to do physical and elemental damage to their opponent.

clerics don't have skills like a mage does that allow them to avoid being touched, they have to hit and run if they want to avoid damage(not always possible), so they heal. if they ignore the ability to heal, they will never be able to succeed and move forward, because they will not be able to keep up with everybody, and the monsters, around them.

revive, however, is a personal preference. i got it, i wanted it for the sole purpose of helping people. not everybody likes to help others. my friends had to basically force another friend to max her revive, lol.

Nelae - Heavens Tear

AndromedaB - Sanctuary wrote: »

deamon makes it 150 for first 10 seconds dosent stack

Idk for sure, but then there is absolutely no way that cleric ever out dmg a wiz

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Remember, hes not talking of a usual situation. Outdamaging a wiz would be unlikely, yes. Hes talking about THE perfect situation and senario that can be used to test it out. There is nothing bad about experimenting and exploring. Most of the pple on the forum seem to shun these threads just because it doesnt fit their description of the norm and even go their way to post to belittle them.

Look you can do what ever you want, have xxxxxx999 sparks and still they would do more dmg.
Like i said, i went to see can i take aggro from a mage my lv, same build.
Answer is NO, and i mean NO like even if i had my demon skills the fact would not change.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i've argued with mysticfailx so many times it's just tiring. he's as arrogant as they come. if you disagree, he throws a fit. he honestly believes, without a doubt, he can out damage a mage. everybody knows it's impossible, but he thinks he can do it. he's been trying to say they could for a long time.

i think the fac guide put it in his head. that waste of space should be deleted.

Basically your just trying to stamp down on his freedom of testing cause you want to squeeze your opinion of yours into his head >_> Your tired of arguing and you still dont leave it as that, if he throws a fit u go along keeping up with his posts, if he disagrees back you literally stalk his threads. Good Lord, leave him alone already if hes not personally harassing you, in real life you dont go nitpicking everybody who has the opposite opinion as you.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Look you can do what ever you want, have xxxxxx999 sparks and still they would do more dmg.
Like i said, i went to see can i take aggro from a mage my lv, same build.
Answer is NO, and i mean NO like even if i had my demon skills the fact would not change.

?Soooo..???? Its not your problem if he wants to test things out and find out for his own? Hes not forcing you to watch, spend your money, much less borrow your gear or your time.

Ninnuam - Sanctuary

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Maybe that cleric didnt invest in updating his gear?? I know our 60s cleric died to an aoe hit from drum (I know their way too low lv but they just came for the fun) but I remember at 75 I did just fine with its aoe dmg as a solo healer BB.

Glad you did. Then again I'll bet an arm and a leg you didn't have 1,5k hp or whatever at 75 either with a maxed barb buff lol

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote:

i've argued with mysticfailx so many times it's just tiring. he's as arrogant as they come. if you disagree, he throws a fit.

Looked in a mirror lately? *points to the solo aoe thread*

Advent_fox - Sanctuary wrote:

you do realize this is a game, and in that people can do what they want. I see nothing wrong with a FA Cleric. If someone wishes to do it let them

Saying that guide is a total waste of space and that the build is just a waste of time is just being childish.

Yes, I do. And yes, they can. But if they do, I want a huge effin sign over their head saying "I'm and idiot", or "I'm experimenting", or "I don't squad", whatever. As long as they make it crystal clear they're NOT what they're expected to be. I'm not going to go on a tt run with a barb with no tiger form. Or a bm with no stuns and aoe skills. Or a veno with no pet. I sure as hell won't party a cleric with 1,2k hp, lvl2 res and lvl8 ironheart either.
And if you're wondering, yes I have had the pleasure of being in a squad with the latter once. I don't want to again.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

This forum has lost all credibilty on what is possible and what isn't. Anyone trying to disprove mysticflex who is not a cleric with the listed demon skills should never over-estimate themselves as being an expert when they have never even tried it. Trying seems to be too much effort instead of simply typing.

Also, just because someone can't do something, doesn't mean all clerics can't do it. Never under-estimate how bad of a cleric you are at these times.

Same icon debuffs do not stack, they end up over-writing with the most recent one being the active one. This was tested with the Elemental Seal being used with a veno pet's ele debuff skill. The veno then used their scarab with no weapon equipped so that their dmg was only 1 possible number. That said, I think different icon debuffs do stack in a way. This part I'm not as sure about, I know we tested with the phys debuff and dimensional seal debuff, but it's been 3 months since we did it. Would recommend someone retesting that to double check, instead of just saying no. Just remember taking away the concept same icon doesn't stack from the whole test.

EDIT: Mstic, you should drop the effect of demon SG down to 150% from 220%. They are right in that a wizard will get the SG buff in about every possible time, they just can't count on it getting cast every 10 secs. So the 150% can be counted for the cleric only, and no one will really have an arguement against that.

Also, has anyone tried to see if the 100% sage boost on wellspring lasts the full duration? Considering the demon one isn't much better, and only lasts 10 secs, I'd throw out the guess that it was simply omitted by accident for the sage benefit as well. That would be too large a power gap between the respective celestial skills

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Oh dear forp you have become the biggest troll I ever knew, even when I trolled the wizard forums (I don't anymore) I never took this **** Into the game but you forp,

- got so cut I was your "Wifes" friend that you took her out of my faction and deleted me from her friends list?

- continue to whine and sook constantly following my posts and putting your useless input into the threads.

god damnit forp these are forums for a thricken game just bloody chill out will ya?, No really honestly can you just drop it, please?

Forp - Heavens Tear

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh dear forp you have become the biggest troll I ever knew, even when I trolled the wizard forums (I don't anymore) I never took this **** Into the game but you forp,

i'm not trolling, neither are you. you don't even know what a troll is.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

- got so cut I was your "Wifes" friend that you took her out of my faction and deleted me from her friends list?

actually, she can't stand you. i didn't delete you from her friend list(she doesn't like you anyways). i did have her leave the guild she was in, but for different reasons. don't question **** you don't have any part of.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

- continue to whine and sook constantly following my posts and putting your useless input into the threads.

i don't follow your post, i read this section of the forum most. you might not have noticed yet, but i'm a cleric. big shocker.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

god damnit forp these are forums for a thricken game just bloody chill out will ya?, No really honestly can you just drop it, please?

yano, you throw a fit in every thread telling people blatant lies every day. you carry things on forever. shut up, k?

Xenesis - Lost City

Only a noob goes to pk or Tw without full buffs so i dunno what are you talking about .b:bye Btw if you didnt look mage 89 skills also have a lot more dmg , but if it makes you feel better you can thnik so .

Kikuzakura - Sanctuary

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But out of "CURIOSITY" if a cleric did the following
Chromatic seal - 34 seconds
Elemental seal - 30% magic defence reduction for 20 seconds
Demons spirits gift - +220% weapon damage for 10 seconds
Weild Thunder - 30% metal defence reduction - 10 seconds
Demons spirits gift - +220% weapon damage for 10 seconds
Demons tempest - 620% weapon damage + 13503.0

I was trying to understand this combo, so I went to ecatacomb and then made up some details:

Start range 26.5 meters, target awake has not attacked yet
...level 10 Chromatic seal costs 30 chi, 637 mana, sleeps target
time: +1.0 seconds (target asleep)
...level 10 elemental seal, gains 10 chi, costs 192 mana, -30% mdef
time: +2.0 seconds (target asleep)
...demon spirit give, gains 10 chi, costs 595 mana, +150% m attack
time: +3.0 seconds (target asleep)
...demon wield thunder, gains 10 chi, costs 595 mana
......metal damage:
.........base magic damage has +150% m attack against -30% mdef
.........+200% weapon damage against -30% mdef
.........+6365 damage against -30% mdef
time: +5.5 seconds (target awake or dead)

Here you threw in another demon spirit's gift but I am pretty sure you should not bother because they do not stack. Or, if they did stack, you should have chained several of them together before you attacked. But I am pretty sure they do not stack.

wield thunder reduces your target's metal defense by 30%. But you had already reduced your target's metal defense by 30% with elemental seal. Do they stack with each other? I do not know. Has anyone tried this? Do we know if any of these skills have significant bugs or documentation problems?

...demon tempest, requires 2 spark, costs 655 mana
......metal damage
........base magic damage +150% m attack against -30% or -60% mdef
........+400% weapon damage against -30% or -60% mdef
........+13503 damage against -30% or -60% mdef
time: +9.5 seconds

Presumably, for this exercise to be working properly, your target would have been alive and sitting there ignoring you when you cast tempest? (Otherwise you might have been interrupted).

I do not know but... you might be right here? You could certainly dish out lots of damage. But even with me making stuff up I have too many variables to figure out even approximately how much damage you would be delivering. (I would need to know your gear, your target, your target's defenses, and health and... maybe how much you paid your target so he would stand still for this.)

Prof - Harshlands

-30% elemental reduction, -10% from metal. that stacks, it's 2 different debuffs. -40% from metal. 1 undine strike is -60% from the 3 elements a mage uses.

mage wins in debuff.

tempest, as compared to black ice dragon, blace ice dragon does more in base damage alone.

he keeps adding +150% magic attack, which is null, seeing as that's weaker than a level 29 "spark eruption", for a second less than it.

both have the ability to use a demon spark(3 sparks), and a chi pot to use their tempest. demon spirit's gift does not stack with spark, it overrides it, so it comes down to base damage+debuff. in both areas, the mage wins.

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Kikuzakura - Sanctuary wrote: »

I was trying to understand this combo, so I went to ecatacomb and then made up some details:

Start range 26.5 meters, target awake has not attacked yet
...level 10 Chromatic seal costs 30 chi, 637 mana, sleeps target
time: +1.0 seconds (target asleep)
...level 10 elemental seal, gains 10 chi, costs 192 mana, -30% mdef
time: +2.0 seconds (target asleep)
...demon spirit give, gains 10 chi, costs 595 mana, +150% m attack
time: +3.0 seconds (target asleep)
...demon wield thunder, gains 10 chi, costs 595 mana
......metal damage:
.........base magic damage has +150% m attack against -30% mdef
.........+200% weapon damage against -30% mdef
.........+6365 damage against -30% mdef
time: +5.5 seconds (target awake or dead)

Here you threw in another demon spirit's gift but I am pretty sure you should not bother because they do not stack. Or, if they did stack, you should have chained several of them together before you attacked. But I am pretty sure they do not stack.

wield thunder reduces your target's metal defense by 30%. But you had already reduced your target's metal defense by 30% with elemental seal. Do they stack with each other? I do not know. Has anyone tried this? Do we know if any of these skills have significant bugs or documentation problems?

...demon tempest, requires 2 spark, costs 655 mana
......metal damage
........base magic damage +150% m attack against -30% or -60% mdef
........+400% weapon damage against -30% or -60% mdef
........+13503 damage against -30% or -60% mdef
time: +9.5 seconds

Presumably, for this exercise to be working properly, your target would have been alive and sitting there ignoring you when you cast tempest? (Otherwise you might have been interrupted).

I do not know but... you might be right here? You could certainly dish out lots of damage. But even with me making stuff up I have too many variables to figure out even approximately how much damage you would be delivering. (I would need to know your gear, your target, your target's defenses, and health and... maybe how much you paid your target so he would stand still for this.)

Prof - Harshlands wrote: »

-30% elemental reduction, -10% from metal. that stacks, it's 2 different debuffs. -40% from metal. 1 undine strike is -60% from the 3 elements a mage uses.

mage wins in debuff.

tempest, as compared to black ice dragon, blace ice dragon does more in base damage alone.

he keeps adding +150% magic attack, which is null, seeing as that's weaker than a level 29 "spark eruption", for a second less than it.

both have the ability to use a demon spark(3 sparks), and a chi pot to use their tempest. demon spirit's gift does not stack with spark, it overrides it, so it comes down to base damage+debuff. in both areas, the mage wins.

Yup mages own in DD, and i think enuff was said about this.

Taalcon - Dreamweaver

maybe you would win if you crit with ironheart and the mage misses

SATII - Lost City

Let's get this straight. Probably under 30, clerics will outDD mages. But pretty much after that, mages will outDD clerics and outDD FACs around lv40-45. The only way a cleric can outDD a mage is if they get interrupted like, on every spell or something.

Prof - Harshlands

SATII - Lost City wrote: »

Let's get this straight. Probably under 30, clerics will outDD mages. But pretty much after that, mages will outDD clerics and outDD FACs around lv40-45. The only way a cleric can outDD a mage is if they get interrupted like, on every spell or something.

mages in the lower levels have the same attack power as a cleric until level 6. after than, mage is stronger.

SATII - Lost City

Prof - Harshlands wrote: »

mages in the lower levels have the same attack power as a cleric until level 6. after than, mage is stronger.

They do, but dunno. Just with my experience, clerics seem to outdamage mages in the lower levels. Don't ask why cause I don't know.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Prof - Harshlands wrote: »

-30% elemental reduction, -10% from metal. that stacks, it's 2 different debuffs. -40% from metal. 1 undine strike is -60% from the 3 elements a mage uses.

mage wins in debuff.

tempest, as compared to black ice dragon, blace ice dragon does more in base damage alone.

he keeps adding +150% magic attack, which is null, seeing as that's weaker than a level 29 "spark eruption", for a second less than it.

both have the ability to use a demon spark(3 sparks), and a chi pot to use their tempest. demon spirit's gift does not stack with spark, it overrides it, so it comes down to base damage+debuff. in both areas, the mage wins.

Clerics have a +60% magic defence due to Magic shell, which would be complete counter to undine strike

Using Chi pots is not valid, It is not a cleric/mage ability.

Prof - Harshlands wrote: »

-30% elemental reduction, -10% from metal. that stacks, it's 2 different debuffs. -40% from metal. 1 undine strike is -60% from the 3 elements a mage uses.

What?

But then again if we are looking at a cleric versus wizard duel.. what kinda cleric uses magic on a wizard? anyway..

Pointless thread no?