Cleric out damage mages lol - again

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

I remember I made a thread about FAC clerics out damaging wizards after getting all that flaming I accepted that Manifest Virtue caused a wizard out damaged a cleric - hands down.

But out of "CURIOSITY" if a cleric did the following
Chromatic seal - 34 seconds
Elemental seal - 30% magic defence reduction for 20 seconds
Demons spirits gift - +220% weapon damage for 10 seconds
Weild Thunder - 30% metal defence reduction - 10 seconds
Demons spirits gift - +220% weapon damage for 10 seconds
Demons tempest - 620% weapon damage + 13503.0

so with the metal defence being lowerd by 60% would a cleric out damage wizard? I know wizards have Undine strike but we have Magic shell.

"Please do not flame I only post this because I am wondering and I do not I repeat DO NOT want to start a massive arguement"

Just simpily tell me even with that combo I wrote would Manifest virtue still have mages doing more damage than clerics. ty.

Forp - Heavens Tear

manifest virtue is a 30 second advanced spark. no matter how hard you try, 10 seconds for a "let's hope this works" type of attack wont work.

clerics do not out damage mages.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

mmhm with -channeling items that combo would be very possible even if it was only

Elemental seal 35% less magic defence for "20" seconds
Demons spirits gift 1.0 second channel 0.5 second cast
Demons weild thunder 30% less metal defence for "10 seconds"
Demons spirits gift 1.0 second channel 0.5 second cast
Demons tempest 4 second channel 1.5 second cast

The elemental seal is there for 20 seconds - thats for sure
after the demons weild thunder you have 10 seconds to do spirits gift and tempest
demons spirits gift takes total 1.5 seconds tempest takes 5.5 seconds thats 7 seconds, very possible to land a tempest while opponent has 65% less metal defence.

or am I missing something?

AndromedaB - Sanctuary

clerice out DD mages and survive better until lv 100s when we get uidine and manifest

by that lv if u are a pure wizzy u will have atleast 10k mp, do wellspring on that= advanced spark for 30 seconds
so with buffs

wellspring>uidine>adv spark>sutra>divine>snare>storm=massive spike dps

AndromedaB - Sanctuary

AndromedaB - Sanctuary wrote: »

clerice out DD mages and survive better until lv 100s when we get uidine and manifest

by that lv if u are a pure wizzy u will have atleast 10k mp, do wellspring on that= advanced spark for 30 seconds
so with buffs

wellspring>uidine>sutra/sage spark>divine>snare>storm=massive spike dps

wait maby uidine should come after spark...

Nelae - Heavens Tear

I would say no for few reasons.
1)They get also nice demon/sage bonuses
2)What Forp said
3)Our metal debuffs dont stack
4)Way better/faster dps *after the low lvs*
5)they can also have nice items so you should not count that.

So in short, they can out dps us with one hand behind their backs, but cant out live us.

*We would be OP if we could out dps and out live any other class*

Forp - Heavens Tear

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

mmhm with -channeling items that combo would be very possible even if it was only

Elemental seal 35% less magic defence for "20" seconds
Demons spirits gift 1.0 second channel 0.5 second cast
Demons weild thunder 30% less metal defence for "10 seconds"
Demons spirits gift 1.0 second channel 0.5 second cast
Demons tempest 4 second channel 1.5 second cast

The elemental seal is there for 20 seconds - thats for sure
after the demons weild thunder you have 10 seconds to do spirits gift and tempest
demons spirits gift takes total 1.5 seconds tempest takes 5.5 seconds thats 7 seconds, very possible to land a tempest while opponent has 65% less metal defence.

or am I missing something?

-chan comes in such small amounts it's unnoticable.

elemental seal - this will last the whole attempt at the combo.
demon spirits gift - -.5 seconds off of the total duration of the effect due to cast time.
demon wield thunder - -3.7 seconds from demon spirit, -1.2 from demon wield thunder.
demon spirit gift - cleric buffs do not override them self, -1.5 seconds from both metal debuff and demon spirit gift.
demon tempest - 4 second channel time, demon spirit gift is gone.

not only is timing that an utterly aweful waste of time, when you could demon spark -> chi pot -> demon spirit buff -> demon tempest. that might do a ton of damage, but at the same time, demon spirit gift is not exclusive to only clerics, a wizard could complete the same combo.

XAsch - Sanctuary

Hah, well Barb's outdamage EVERYONE!

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

AndromedaB - Sanctuary wrote: »

clerice out DD mages and survive better until lv 100s when we get uidine and manifest

by that lv if u are a pure wizzy u will have atleast 10k mp, do wellspring on that= advanced spark for 30 seconds
so with buffs

wellspring>uidine>adv spark>sutra>divine>snare>storm=massive spike dps

Wellsping - no damage 1 spark
Undine - no damage no chi or spark
Advanced spark - no damage 2 spark
Sutura - no damage 2 sparks
Divine - damage
storm - damage



Problem with that being 1) you would need 5 sparks to do it and second you first four spells do no damage at all. well that said wellspring lasts 30min could cast much earlier. But if I assume you ment Manifest virtue since wellspring seems to be pointless then you would still need 5 sparks to pull that off.

I don't believe a wizard could do that combo without getting slept, stunned and killed.

Side note: Elemental seal lowers their "magic defence" while Demons tempest lowers their metal defence specifically why wouldn't these stack? b:victory

Alyyy - Sanctuary

XAsch - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hah, well Barb's outdamage EVERYONE!

you wish .

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wellsping - no damage 1 spark
Undine - no damage no chi or spark
Advanced spark - no damage 2 spark
Sutura - no damage 2 sparks
Divine - damage
storm - damage



Problem with that being 1) you would need 5 sparks to do it and second you first four spells do no damage at all. well that said wellspring lasts 30min could cast much earlier. But if I assume you ment Manifest virtue since wellspring seems to be pointless then you would still need 5 sparks to pull that off.

I don't believe a wizard could do that combo without getting slept, stunned and killed.

Side note: Elemental seal lowers their "magic defence" while Demons tempest lowers their metal defence specifically why wouldn't these stack? b:victory

So far no one confirmed it, and seeing that non of debuffs stack, why should this?

And you speak if a cleric fights a wiz he will get slept, well he will, he can die in 1shot by cleric, but more then once i didnt have a chance to do that vs good wiz's. But thats not the point.

A wiz in my guild (we have same stats build, and he is only 2 lvs higher), i cant take aggro from him, if i had better dps i would but i never do (ok only if i land a high crit).
No matter how you turn it, they win in sole dps b:surrender

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A wiz in my guild (we have same stats build, and he is only 2 lvs higher), i cant take aggro from him, if i had better dps i would but i never do (ok only if i land a high crit).
No matter how you turn it, they win in sole dps b:surrender

okay how about this a cleric and wizard are killing mantavip

The cleric keeps doing demons spirits gift on themselves which gives 220% more weapon damage for 10 seconds and can be constantly casted on the cleric themself.

Pyrogram = 1376 + 100% of weapon damage
Plume shot = 1379 + 320% of weapon damage

Sandstorm = 4288 + 300% of weapon damage
Weild thunder = 4583 + 420% of weapon damage

Black Ice dragon stike = 9648 + 500% weapon damage
Tempest = 9337 + 620% of weapon damage

In the case - highest dps goes to, cleric

AndromedaB - Sanctuary

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wellsping - no damage 1 spark
Undine - no damage no chi or spark
Advanced spark - no damage 2 spark
Sutura - no damage 2 sparks
Divine - damage
storm - damage



Problem with that being 1) you would need 5 sparks to do it and second you first four spells do no damage at all. well that said wellspring lasts 30min could cast much earlier. But if I assume you ment Manifest virtue since wellspring seems to be pointless then you would still need 5 sparks to pull that off.

I don't believe a wizard could do that combo without getting slept, stunned and killed.

Side note: Elemental seal lowers their "magic defence" while Demons tempest lowers their metal defence specifically why wouldn't these stack? b:victory

welspring lasts 10 min i beleive

at lv 100 ull have atleast 3 sparks cuz sage spark is 3 if ur chi is filled once u cast it ull get some chi and ull have another spark

AndromedaB - Sanctuary

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

okay how about this a cleric and wizard are killing mantavip

The cleric keeps doing demons spirits gift on themselves which gives 220% more weapon damage for 10 seconds and can be constantly casted on the cleric themself.

Pyrogram = 1376 + 100% of weapon damage
Plume shot = 1379 + 320% of weapon damage

Sandstorm = 4288 + 300% of weapon damage
Weild thunder = 4583 + 420% of weapon damage

Black Ice dragon stike = 9648 + 500% weapon damage
Tempest = 9337 + 620% of weapon damage

In the case - highest dps goes to, cleric

and the mage cant get these buffs

LOL
with full buffs mage wins

AndromedaB - Sanctuary

welspring increaces max mana = more manifest dps

Arodnur - Lost City

AndromedaB - Sanctuary wrote: »

and the mage cant get these buffs

LOL
with full buffs mage wins

I think Mysticlife is determined to find a situation for a cleric to outdamage a mage so he can finally be happy about rolling the support class.

Just let him pretend, I'm sure there's a faction somewhere out there that's stupid enough to actually use attack Clerics. Don't ask me how, but i'm sure they'll find a way

Forp - Heavens Tear

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

okay how about this a cleric and wizard are killing mantavip

The cleric keeps doing demons spirits gift on themselves which gives 220% more weapon damage for 10 seconds and can be constantly casted on the cleric themself. non-factor, both can get this buff. will not be used in real pvp.

Pyrogram = 1379.6 + 100% of weapon damage
Plume shot = 1379.6 + 100% of weapon damage

Sandstorm = 4288.4 + 300% of weapon damage
Weild thunder = 4583.3 + 200% of weapon damage

Black Ice dragon stike = 9648 + 500% weapon damage
Tempest = 9337.9 + 400% of weapon damage

In the case - highest dps goes mage

there ya go skippy, fixed it for ya.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Good luck find a cleric buffing you every 10 seconds oh and when I added the Plume shot and the weapon % is you really looked you would notice it's with the demons spirits gift

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

there ya go skippy, fixed it for ya.

I calculated the Weapon damage for the clerics abilities with Demons spirits gift.

AndromedaB - Sanctuary wrote: »

welspring lasts 10 min i beleive

At level 1 it lasts 12 min and level 10 lasts 30min


The "cleric can buff mage" factor is not what I'm interested In, I know a wizard getting buffed by a cleric is the best. I asked only to know about cleric V mage as In a cleric with cleric abilities versus a wizard with wizard abilities not a cleric versus a wizard and cleric.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Arodnur - Lost City wrote: »

I think Mysticlife is determined to find a situation for a cleric to outdamage a mage so he can finally be happy about rolling the support class.

Just let him pretend, I'm sure there's a faction somewhere out there that's stupid enough to actually use attack Clerics. Don't ask me how, but i'm sure they'll find a way

Please read the first post I made.

If you got nothing worth reading to post then don't post anything, from what I just read basically you just said, " FAC is stupid and Mysticlifex is cleric the sopport class"

For the record I did say I was only curious? and I have previously stated I am NOT FAC cleric.

Arodnur - Lost City

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Please read the first post I made.

If you got nothing worth reading to post then don't post anything, from what I just read basically you just said, " FAC is stupid and Mysticlifex is cleric the sopport class"

For the record I did say I was only curious? and I have previously stated I am NOT FAC cleric.

So why don't you let this drop? STILL?

Constantly trying to find some situation or some way for a cleric to out-dps a mage, instead of just rolling one ("In the case - highest dps goes to, cleric" LOL NO)

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Arodnur - Lost City wrote: »

So why don't you let this drop? STILL?

Constantly trying to find some situation or some way for a cleric to out-dps a mage, instead of just rolling one ("In the case - highest dps goes to, cleric" LOL NO)

Sorry I will stop, I never knew this thread would be an personal attack towards you.

Arodnur - Lost City

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sorry I will stop, I never knew this thread would be an personal attack towards you.

Good man. Uncle Rundora does indeed consider stupidity of this level to be a personal attack.

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Demon Spirit's Gift:
Increase the target's weapon magic attack bonus by 70% for 60 minutes.

Demon version grants an additional 150% to magic attack for the first 10 seconds.

Undine Strike:
During the fight with the Winged Elves, the grand Wizard Tien suggested that the Wizards ought learn from the Winged Elves and their combat spells. Hence two brand-new spells were developed to greatly enhance the battlefield activities of the Wizard. Undine Strike was one of them. As one of the most effective elemental spells, Undine Strike adopts a part of its essence from the Winged Elves' Elemental Seal. It also deals magic damage to the target. However, because grand Wizard Tien was too specialized in Earth element, the spell deals lesser Earth damage to the target, but reduces it's Water, Fire, and Earth resistance by 60% for 12 seconds.


220% from weapon attack isnt so much when some one lowers your resistance by 60%, again wiz's win in dmg.

And spamming a spell that costs 600mp per cast isnt valid.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Yes Undine strike lowers resistance by 60% thank god for magic shell, next?

As for the 600mp per cast, well if by level 92 you can't afford a gold spirit charm there's something wrong.

Anyway it's not about, how often you can do it, how easy it is to do it, how much mp it takes to do it, what level you can start to do it, it's about - can a cleric out damage a wizard
It's cleric versus wizard that means - the wizard does not get the clerics buffs or it would be a cleric versus a wizard/cleric.

For the last time, look on ecatomb.net "elemental seal" + "Demons spirits" + "Tempest"
will out damage Manifest virtue + summon black ice dragon - I think I don't know lol - Do note that "Undine strike" is useless it has no effect on a cleric with the magic shell buff.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

I admire how patiently you deal with trolls on this thread who just CANNOT ignore threads that are not of their fancy even if their life depended on it. You are very mature >_>

Im assuming with the 'right' situation, they actually can outdamage. But the possibility of it all coming in together to work out would be extremely low, like a mold dropping from a normal grinding mob. The situation would be so fixed and calculated, it may allow even other classes to do the same (with the same amount of fixations)

My personal opinion on this would be yes, thers a good possibility to outdamage. But to test it out it would probably be best to use 6% channeling gear if possible, which is kinda hard to get by, even with borrowing. I remember one cleric having a total of 33% channeling gear which made their ironheart at least 1.5-2sec faster than norm. But on the other hand they had near zip mag stats on their gear. Im assuming you would first need to figure out whats the minimum spaces you can sacrifice for each channeling or mag with the max effect so they dont unbalance each other.

XAsch - Sanctuary

Alyyy - Sanctuary wrote: »

you wish .

No, I'm a Barb. Look at my Pic. I hit 100k on bosses in TT. That out-damages Cleric's and Mages. b:victory

Forp - Heavens Tear

nobody is trolling him, he's too simple minded to listen. why do people think a defensive class out damages an offensive class? i don't know.

buffs, as said before, are not exclusive to one class. they are shared. and when it matters, a wizard will have full cleric buffs.

a clerics tempest+demon spirits gift 10 second failure of a bonus = less power than a normal spark, ie: a waste of time. it's even less time.

let's say you're level 92, just like my friend cheaper, who's a wizard. demon spark+chi pot+water buff thing, giving him a grand total of 2 sparks and and 12 seconds to charge up water dragon with +700% magic attack. and, at the same time, he could have used undine strike, taking -60% elemental defense in earth, water, and fire; and doing a small dot.

do the math, you can't out damage that. demon spirit gift gives "intuition" - the same buff spark gives. they don't stack, they override. in fact, by only having 150% more magic attack would make you hit so insignificantly lower that you've become a nonfactor.

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes Undine strike lowers resistance by 60% thank god for magic shell, next?

As for the 600mp per cast, well if by level 92 you can't afford a gold spirit charm there's something wrong.

Anyway it's not about, how often you can do it, how easy it is to do it, how much mp it takes to do it, what level you can start to do it, it's about - can a cleric out damage a wizard
It's cleric versus wizard that means - the wizard does not get the clerics buffs or it would be a cleric versus a wizard/cleric.

For the last time, look on ecatomb.net "elemental seal" + "Demons spirits" + "Tempest"
will out damage Manifest virtue + summon black ice dragon - I think I don't know lol - Do note that "Undine strike" is useless it has no effect on a cleric with the magic shell buff.

Again you talk about cleric vs a mage, thats lol.

And really, take a mage that knows what he is doing, go on a wood boss, and see if you can keep aggro for even 2 seconds.
My bet is that you wont even take aggro if you use tempest.

Btw to get any demon/sage skills, takes allot of TT or fb89/99? farming, thats just lol to count that.

Really, ppl who did the math on this agree that you come 2k dmg short in perfect conditions, just LOL trying find a slim chance to you out dmg them.

Ninnuam - Sanctuary

Meh, if a cleric outdamages a wiz, they're an epic fail. Period. Any cleric with a decent amount of hp WILL NOT come even close to a wizzies damage output. If for some god forsaken reason you decide to be a FAC at least put a nice big sign over your head saying so. Because quite frankly, when it counts, you'll be long dead. I've seen a lvl75 cleric die to a 1-2 percussion aoe under a barb hp buff. And that's just sad ya know?

I mean I'm not saying a cleric can't be a good dd class. We can and we are. But trying to outdamage THE dd class of a game is just gimping yourself so much that you turn into an epic fail regarding everything you're actually supposed to be doing. I mean when a squad gets a cleric for a fb/tt/tw whatever, they expect them to heal. In order to heal, you must actually stay alive. With 1,5k hp you won't. Not to a boss' physical aoe, not to a single hit from a physical mob your level, not to a single hit from just about every other class. So yeah, leave the dding to archers and wizzies and do what you're supposed to do. Otherwise you're as useful as an int built barb with no tiger form.

Nelae - Heavens Tear

lol Ninnuam, dont make this a build flame/discussion, cause its not.