The Ultimate Whine Thread....

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Comparing humans to base animals could never truly work, but then again an apple and an orange are not the same thing but still part of the same food group.

Comparing humans to animals? We are animals, no comparison needed. That was my point. We tend to think higher of ourselves because a) it is our own kind, and b) we have a higher capacity to think. Regardless, we are animals, and those instincts within every other living thing are inside us, as well.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Empathy is one characteristic humans have, but not so much more then a loyal dog. I have seen with my own eyes a deceased owners dog refuse to eat or drink after his owned passed until it died itself.

This is why I said "some other animals, not just humans" have empathy. Dogs are pack animals, just like us, and therefore share many of our social traits. That, and canines have evolved with us for a very long time and in many ways very similar to us. Cats are pretty close, but aren't naturally pack animals (at least large packs), so tend to be more independent. Elephants, chimpanzees and porpoises are other animals that have shown empathy and other social skills.

My point wasn't the uniqueness of empathy in humans, since it obviously isn't unique. My point is based on our higher mental and social awareness that works with that empathy, and allow us to work together by understanding one another. Dogs, cats, or even chimps are simply not smart enough, to no fault of their own, of course.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What humanity has more of then any animal on this planet is the capacity for self-sacrifice.

That's true, but what really makes us shine is our advanced social and mental capabilities. Self-sacrifice is only part of that equation. Like I said before, we are hard-wired to get along with one another. It is in our instincts to save others like us (generally, our species), even at the cost of self. The reason people kill is because either another instinct overrides that one (self defense, hatred, fear, etc), or the individual is biologically or environmentally altered in such a way (such as a sociopath, or traumatized/brainwashed) that the instinct is nullified for more beneficial actions, no matter how trivial.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

With that said, i still believe that capacity is just a part of humanity, not the majority or something to base humanity on. For instance, watch the news on a regular basis. 90% of the news is negative. Death, wars, tension, robbery, ****, murder, thievery. We watch it, but really none of us are shocked anymore unless it's a major catastrophy. We've been desensetized to violence because it has become the norm.

I think that our advanced social and mental capacity is exactly what makes us unique. What reveals our animalistic nature is exactly what you're describing here. Again, all these atrocities we see every day on the news can be attributed right back to our instincts. It is humans, in power, acting on their emotions such as hatred and fear. If they used their higher social and mental abilities, and relied on empathy and reciprocity, none of this would exist. Unfortunately, we are animals, and these things will always exist.

You are right that we have become desensitized, which is yet another function of our biology. It is a way for us to deal with stress. Otherwise, simply turning on the TV would give everyone a heart attack.

Also, just because the news is filled with negative stories, doesn't mean there is more negativity now than there was 5, 10, 50, 100, 500 years ago. It is a product of sensationalism in the media. It's a big snowball effect - "shock factor" gets more viewers/listeners/readers, so therefore more shocking stories are reported; the more reported desensitizes us, and so more and more shocking must be found and reported; before long, everything on the news is shocking and negative, and suddenly the good Samaritan stories are an island in a sea of ****, and the cycle starts back over.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Go back in time 50 years in America and it was "respect your neighbor". People socialized, spoke, knew everything about there neighbors and were friendly.

No, in the media it was like that because just about anything negative was extinguished and never spoken of. Propaganda was rampant back then and everything had to have a positive spin. Is it better with the media we have today? Maybe not, but at least it's a lot more honest. Besides, what you're talking about is the "Pleasantville," white-picket fence, American dream pseudo-reality in which only existed in perfect middle-class white families in this corner of the world. In that same 'reality,' it was a virtual hell for any non-white and poor people, as well as many places around the world. All of a sudden, 50 years later, we are better informed and can actually see the world in color, and oh boy does it look much uglier. So it must be, right?

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

My point is paranoia, anger, violence is becoming more and more the norm. The norm is something you expect, not something that surprises you. More people believe they will be mugged on the subway then "if they drop there wallet a kind stranger will return it". Negativity is the norm, it's just what it is.

This I agree with, and what I would love to see changed, but it will realistically never happen. Again, it is no worse than the past, and I believe in many ways better. Still, we have nearly 7 billion people on this planet, and even if only 1% were 'criminally minded,' that's still a lot of people to be concerned about. That percentage is nowhere near that low, and yet still probably much lower than in the past. More people does mean more cause for concern; more reasons to watch your back, lock your belongings up, scrutinize everyone. It doesn't mean you necessarily have to be paranoid and hate everyone, it just means be careful, be smart.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I mean we can go back and forth debating between humanities plus positives and negatives, but I can say without doubt when the rules of society cease to apply you will see the true humanity emerge. Just look at any post-apocalyptic movie, or book ever made. Society degenerates into savages. The strong take what they want, the weak suffer from the strong. Theres no difference today. Except "strength" is discuised as civility.

Exactly - we are savages, we are animals. That is our true 'nature,' as is every other living thing. In the end, the only thing that matters is survival. However, to better our chances of survival, we would be best off relying on our advanced intellect and social capabilities to work together. Many people realize this, but only understanding and actually doing something about it are two different things. Plus, we have those animal urges to deal with in the meantime. It isn't really black-and-white, it never is. That doesn't mean we should just give up. Bleak outlooks never helped anyone, no matter how much truth there was to them.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As a wise man once said, hope in one hand and **** in the other. See which one fills up first. And that's humanity for you. Hope in one hand, **** in the other. b:chuckle

Let's see how much the rest of nature cares about you. Stand near a hungry lion or an elephant in musk and see if they offer you hope. Would you rather owe a bank $22,000 or have a small tree impale you in a hurricane? Nature's just as bad, except it usually doesn't even give a reach-around.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear

You know i have to say, the idea that humans are animals and justfying anything we do as such just doesn't fit with the majority of humanity for one reason...and thats the majority do not believe humans come from animals. Believe it or not recent statistics show the majority of humanity (taking into account christians, muslims, bhuddists, hindu's, etcetc) actaully believe in one form of creationism or another.

Darwin was actually wrong when he said human embryo's are identical to that of a chimpanze's. But then again the running joke on darwin was that, since he was so hairy, mayhap he came from a monkey. Besides the point thought. On one hand you can find so many similarities between us and animals, on the other such vasts difference. But we won't get into a creationism vs evolution debate here. But we should really take "humans are animals so it explains all the animal like actions" quotes off the table as quite frankly science has not proven one way or another that we are or are not.

And if you go by the basis that the majority of humanity does not believe in evolution, but believe in a form of creationism, then you can't really say humans are animals. Majority rule and all. And yes i know at one time the majorty believed the earth to be flat, but that one was a lot easier to prove then the origins of humans.

That aside, i am still not sure that "acts of evil" are really "evil". We say we would like to live in a world that embrace compassion, friendship, mercy, love, but at the same time we'll take any shortcut we can to get what we want. Do onto others as you would have done onto you is the biggest lie ever told. I have never ever met anyone who follows this advice. You will never ever do onto others as as you would want them to do onto you because you will always expect better for yourself. For that saying to be true you would actually have to believe you are not special, the world does not revolve around you, and your life is not any more important then anyone elses. And even if you believed that you still would cut corners to get what you want. We all do it, so no sense in hidding it.

Some people will say humanities capacity for evil stems from our animalistic nature. But you will never find such utter cruelty from one animal to another as you will from one human to another. Nowhere in nature can you find such depraved glee-filled cruelty. Religious folk will attribute such behavior to the Devil, or a form there of. Rather fits the bill more if you ask me. Pure evil inside each of us, and those who cannot control it do these acts of evil without guilt or remorse. Would make more sense.

But then again that would also be a cope-out answer now wouldn't it? Blaming all thats bad on the devil and attributing all thats good to God. What makes the sun come out? God. What makes it go down? God. What made that man steal? The devil. I mean if humanity remained content with those answers we'd still be living in huts, ridding horses, building castles and fighting each other with bows and arrows. But you know what, we wouldn't be annihilating each other and the planet with such toxicity as we have in the last hundred years. No one even knows the full effects the french nuclear testing has, and will have, on the oceans currents to this day.

Maybe the old saying that ignorance is bliss. The less you ask, the less you know, the easier life is to swallow as it is. Theres a very old european saying that says "Blessed is he who goes crazy young".

The real kicker with humanity is this, our intellectual capacity. We did not conquer the earth through physical strength, but mental. Physically we are one of the weakest, most defenseless "animals" on this planet. But because of our intellect, we can actually destroy the entire world if we wanted to. Do you know what kind of power that is? No other species on this earth can destroy it. We have enough nuclear weaponry to literraly blow up the entire planet if we wanted to. We've literally outgrown mother-earth. So i somehow myself find it hard to believe we achieved all that by evolving from monkeys, when the rest of the monkey population still flings poo at each other.

Now someone stated earlier that myself and saitada are very negative. That what we say, if read by some, could make them suicidal. The fact of the matter is we are not the ones that are negative. I myself am actually quite a happy person. I enjoy life, i love my family and friends and i help those in need when i can. I dont go out of my way to do it, but when i can i do.

What you have to realise is that with the easy access to information at an early age, the last two generations have had a much different upbringing then any previous generation on this planet. No other generation has had so much information to process at such an early age. Anything you want to know you pretty much can nowadays. The internet is an amazing tool. You can listen to what your president says on CNN, then go online and actually do some fact checking to see the meaning behind his words.

You can do that with just about anything you hear or see today. Any charitable foundation, you can actually go online and look into there books. Then you find out that it's not exactly how they say on tv. For every 1$ you send, poor pablo will only receive 1 penny after costs. I mean thats just an example, but once you inform yourself on how the world really operates it is a sobbering awakening.

You stop seeing the world through misty child-like eyes and realise it is a machine. With gears and nuts and bolts. This machine runs on blood and it is constantly hungry. You can either be fed into it or be the one doing the feeding. Attribute that to any walk of life, to any person, to any philosophy, to any religion, to any job, to everything.

The last two generations (a generation being 25years btw) are looked upon as very dark and depressing by the older generations. That is simply because of knowledge. The older generations did not have access to information that we do today. There is no magic left in the world. No illusions of goodness and kindness. Everything someone says or does can be fact checked and you can find out the real motivations behind it. Once you start doing that you pretty much realise how the world operates and move on.

We are not sad or depressed, at least i am not. I simply accept the world for what it is, and what it always has been, and what it always will be. I live my life, and as long as no one interfears with it then everyone else is free to do the same.

By the way, life might seem a lot more depressing once you know the rules, but at least now you know how the game is played and can't fall back on the words "I did not know" as previous generations could. Ignorance truly is no excuse today. And please, anyone reading what i have to say don't take it all in a negative tone. It is what it is, that's life. Life yours the best you know how and don't worry too much about how others live theres. Worry about you, your friends and family. Because all philosophy aside, human belief and morality, we are only here to procreate. Beyond that it's all debatable. You're really a machine that's here to leave offspring. That's pretty much the reason you exist. So accept it, roll with it, enjoy your life without worrying too much about ideals.

Because in the end, life ends way too fast. No one has survived life yet, and neither will you. So enjoy it for what it is, feelings and sensations. Your senses are what make life amazing. Taste, sound, site, touch, smell are your senses. Without them you would be a machine. I truly believe whatever life throws at us, good and bad, it's more then likely still better then being dead. Being able to enjoy senses is what life is all about. So dont get too depressed if life is not the hollywood ideal you would like it to be. It's the only one we have, stop worrying about everyone else and just concentrate on you and yours.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear

And please don't denegrate anyones opinions by calling them "Stupid". Not because of what they are saying or because of there age. I am in my twenties, i have debated with philosophy professors in there sixties about many subjects. Never was an opinion of mine called "Stupid" because of my age. A youthfull perspective can sometimes yield interesting theories.

But if you really want to learn, you have to listen, not just talk. As a professor of mine used to say:

If you want to be seen, stand up. If you want to be heard, speak up. If you want to learn, shut up.

We're all just talking philosophy anyway. This is not mathematics, it is not a topic you can win or prove yourself right or anyone wrong. That's what philosophy is all about, there is no right or wrong just difference of opinions. So please don't be insulting to anyone who has anything to add. Not addressing this to you Zenpachi, or anyone in particular. The insulters know who they are.

On a more serious note, pumpkin pie i love but not with cinnamon. Cinnamon kills the pumpkin goodness. Blueberry pie is great too. Cherry pie is one of the best. But truffle delight chocoheaven cake is just game over, you are out of quarters. b:victory

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

Faustinna, regarding the first part, we're going to have to agree to disagree. No, something is not right simply because the majority thinks so. Majority rules only because there is strength in numbers, not because they can bend reality to their will. There is a lot we cannot discuss about human nature as long as you believe we're not the same as the rest of life as we know it.

Just one question about that: Do you think we have any instincts at all?

Now, onto the rest:

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You will never ever do onto others as as you would want them to do onto you because you will always expect better for yourself. For that saying to be true you would actually have to believe you are not special, the world does not revolve around you, and your life is not any more important then anyone elses. And even if you believed that you still would cut corners to get what you want. We all do it, so no sense in hidding it.

Humans are social creatures, and as such, we are actually rewarded (serotonin in our brains - we literally feel good) for maintaining relationships with others. We have an innate need to be good to one another because when we do so, we feel good. By using the 'Golden Rule,' we are in fact being selfish because we know we will probably be rewarded socially and thus feel good. The more we do it, the better we feel on a daily basis. I know when I hold the door open for someone, for example, I feel good, despite having otherwise wasted my time to do something that didn't give me any other benefit.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Some people will say humanities capacity for evil stems from our animalistic nature. But you will never find such utter cruelty from one animal to another as you will from one human to another. Nowhere in nature can you find such depraved glee-filled cruelty. Religious folk will attribute such behavior to the Devil, or a form there of. Rather fits the bill more if you ask me. Pure evil inside each of us, and those who cannot control it do these acts of evil without guilt or remorse. Would make more sense.

Other animals are quite cruel, and very selfish (self preservation, anyone?). An example: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/16/chimp.attack/index.html. A human has the capacity to be crueler, but only because of how advanced our minds actually are - we can conceive many things other animals cannot. Many things can cause this kind of behavior, as I outlined in my first post. Psychopaths have no empathy and are typically raised in a less-than-optimal environment. Something in their life will trigger an episode, and off they go being as cruel as anyone can imagine. Some people would call that a demon inside their body, corrupting them to do evil; but then some people still think epileptic seizures require exorcisms.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I mean if humanity remained content with those answers we'd still be living in huts, ridding horses, building castles and fighting each other with bows and arrows. But you know what, we wouldn't be annihilating each other and the planet with such toxicity as we have in the last hundred years.

They say ignorance is bliss, but I prefer the opposite and I'm sure all the people not dying young because of advancements in medical technology, clean running water, and many other technologies that have benefited mankind would agree. Ye olde days of swords and bows and arrows were not nearly as romantic as you may believe, and in fact had much more oppression, corruption, and cruelty than anything in modern times.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Physically we are one of the weakest, most defenseless "animals" on this planet.

Not true. Yes, there are animals that are stronger, there are some that are faster, etc, but compared with all animal life, we are definitely in the top tier of physical capability.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

We've literally outgrown mother-earth. So i somehow myself find it hard to believe we achieved all that by evolving from monkeys, when the rest of the monkey population still flings poo at each other.

Figured you didn't want to go there... But I'll say, if you think that's what evolution is about, you're seriously mistaken. Evolution doesn't say we evolved from monkeys, chimps, gorillas, or any other species still in existence. Instead, it says that all of ape-kind, us included, evolved from a single, different species long, long ago. It's like a family tree: when you say you're related to your great-grandparents, you're not saying they directly birthed you, you're saying they're your ancestors 'down-the-line.'

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I myself am actually quite a happy person. I enjoy life, i love my family and friends and i help those in need when i can. I dont go out of my way to do it, but when i can i do.

That's awesome then! What else do you need? I say, as long as you're happy, you've got to be doing something right! b:laugh

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What you have to realise is that with the easy access to information at an early age, the last two generations have had a much different upbringing then any previous generation on this planet. No other generation has had so much information to process at such an early age. Anything you want to know you pretty much can nowadays. The internet is an amazing tool. You can listen to what your president says on CNN, then go online and actually do some fact checking to see the meaning behind his words.

Definitely agree. The internet is probably the single most important technology we've had since the printing press, at least as far as access to information and communication goes. I think this is a good thing for mankind getting back to its roots - the 'village' setting. We've become so distant from one another for so long, separated by huge vasts of land and even bigger oceans, making our differences obvious and our similarities less so. The internet places everyone on equal footing and instantly connected. It allows us (you and I) to have a conversation like this without silly things like physical appearance and distance getting in the way.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Because all philosophy aside, human belief and morality, we are only here to procreate. Beyond that it's all debatable. You're really a machine that's here to leave offspring. That's pretty much the reason you exist. So accept it, roll with it, enjoy your life without worrying too much about ideals.

Egggsactly.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

stop worrying about everyone else and just concentrate on you and yours.

Except this - worry about one another because part of enjoying life is friends and family. If you go through it ignoring everyone else, I can't imagine a worse 'hell.'

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear

I think we created a monster complimenting Faustinna on a post she made a couple days ago. Calm down hun. Just cuz you went to college don't mean you know it all. I only agree with about 40% of which you spew. The rest is just long drawn out rants about ****, that could have been stated in just a few short sentences, instead of chapters of even more ****. I'll say it again, you do seem to mean well. And I do agree with some of what you say. But dear, please shorten up your spews. Because your kinda coming off as being a self righteous b***h, who thinks the more she writes, the smarter it makes her appear.

Reading your long drawn out posts here gives me the feeling I'm being preached to by some person who thinks they know it all, and feels the need to school the rest of us with her own wisdom. Wisdom comes in more forms than just going to school. Even more wisdom comes from life, and living it. And frankly, I think you need to live much more of it, before you should be preaching to the rest of us. Just my opinion of course. Usually the way we think as a young person full of **** and vinegar thinking we know it all and wanting to change the world, changes tremendously after we have lived life, and had some real personal experiences.

And for the record I don't consider us humans as animals. Animals do not travel space, and invent fantastic new things. They do not think complex thoughts, and are able to plan things for their future. Us humans exist on a higher plain.

As far as religion goes. I never will get down on a person for choosing that path. If that is what they need to achieve inner peace with themselves, so be it. But religion in this world, is also what is destroying it.

Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people's business. And in some extreme cases it even gives it's followers the excuse to go out and kill others. To me religion in general is just a form of mind control.

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear

Evga - Sanctuary wrote: »

i never ate pie, and frankly the look of it disturb me. I come from a country where pie doesn't really exist. rofl.

but i've to say, being evil doesn't make humans bad, i mean it's the evilness and the competition that keeps us going foward take a look at WW2, did you know how much advancement we made during that 4 years? a whole lot more. I actually do think that it's our evilness and competitiveness that will bring us to the top.

on the other hand there are stupid countries, that just can't seem to do anything right, always poor, at war, starving, dieing. this are the people i think we should just wipe off the surface of the world. "once you become useless, it's pointless having you around" that's how i see it.

meh i gone way out of topic.

Would it be ok for me to say, a country without pie, must be evil in it's own little way? lol

dieseasily

I see alot of you missed my point. I did not say that there is no evil in the world. Nor did I say that your opinion is stupid. I am saying that concentrating on the evils in life is stupid, because you concentrate on all the evils that you are failing to see that the good things in life easily out number the bad. Yes evil still happens. Yes you should prepare yourself for bad things to happen when you can. But rather then let those evils control the way you see the world, let the good things control it.

I have personally been effected by one of the most troubling situations a parent should ever have to deal with. I do not let that event rule my world. I use all of the other good events that have happened prior and the things that have happened since rule it. I do not go out looking to see the bad in people, or to see the evils in the world. I know I will see it but if that is all you ever are looking for then you are missing all the good things in life.

My point of views are not solely based on any debates I have had with my professor of philosophy. They are also based on my sociologist professors, my psychology professors, my english professors, My math professors, my highschool teachers, my gradeschool teachers, my friends, my family, and my own personal experience from anyone I have ever encountered. Relying on one source to make up an opinion is not the thing to do. You at most only get 2 sides to the whole when you do that. But life does not have just 2 sides. Very often it has 50 ot 100 different sides. And yes, as I encounter more people, my opinions change. But I have yet to meet one person who can say that looking at all the good things in life is the wrong thing to do.

chipsing1234

dieseasily wrote: »

Your arguement completely fails. You offer no facts, and you are a hipocrit but you prolly do not see why. So I will show you.

You have stated that a venos expenses are not as much as a barbs for expenses are when repairing their weapons and armors. Yet you are also complaining that a herc can "steal aggro from barbs". I don't get it, if a veno cannot steal argo from a barb, which mean less wear and tear on the barbs equipment, then what is the point of having a veno in the party? You want their str reduced to the point that they cannot steal argo from a barb, this also mean they are not doing enough damage to be valuable to the party. May as well replace them with another Cleric or Wizard which is capable of doing either much more damage or healing the barb that is now getting torn to shreds. So now the veno is not welcome in TT parties and cannot do TT on their own. Whats the solution to this?

You say that venos are overpowered and should not be able to solo TT bosses with Hercs, a $200 pet. If I do not get a really good benefit for my single $200 item, why would I spend the money. What would you offer me to cause me to want to pay $200 in this game?

And I know you don't want anyone to use the ACTUAL PVP and PVE rankings to prove that venos are not overpowered because... I guess that "maybe" the veno players are so anamoured with their looks that rather then play they have their hands down their pants. Where as an archer "maybe" more likely dedicated to doing PVP and PVE that of course they are going to be higher. But then again maybe an archer is the class that is truely overpowered and maybe they need to be nerfed, and maybe you are an archer who got to level 80 in 3 days of light playing and you do not want others to realize that, and maybe the moon really is made of blue cheese. Thr problem with all of your maybe reasons is that they work in reverse just as well. Statistacly speaking, there are going to be the same % of perverts with their hands in their pants playing Venos as are playing Archers, and the same %of dedicated venos as their are dedicated archers.

And if the rankings supported your arguement would you not hold them up as proof of your arguement? Its easy to say no now, but had they been in your favor from the start I'd be willing to bet you would have.

1. Find a post where I mentioned herc can steal aggro from a barb. That was other people, not me.
2. You forgot venos are needed to lure.
3. When I mentioned soloing TT, I was referring to normal venos. Spend $200, I suppose you should have some advantage such as that.
4. Your introduction of "hands in your pants" is utterly, and completely irrelevant to any sort of point that has been brought up in this argument. Your using it as some sort of argument is completely unsupported and, well, rather idiotic.
5. If rankings shows that venos were in the top PvP, I'd look to see if they were phoenix venos. Seeing as no one seems to know whether the venos on the list are phoenix venos or not, or the PvP activity of phoenix venos in general, they cannot use it to show phoenix venos are not overpowered.

Boza_cutter - Lost City

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Will you people, stop posting huge walls of text? Who da heck at his sain mind would read all this...I dunno what to call it!

And stop repeating same things over and over and over and over and over and over...*bump the head*... again!

Thx in advance b:shocked

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

Boza_cutter - Lost City wrote: »

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Will you people, stop posting huge walls of text? Who da heck at his sain mind would read all this...I dunno what to call it!

And stop repeating same things over and over and over and over and over and over...*bump the head*... again!

Thx in advance b:shocked

Hey, it's a lot better than what this thread was intended to be! b:surrender

dieseasily

chipsing1234 wrote: »

...Notice that you're 70, and TT 1-2's level requirement isn't much less than that. Level higher, get the new pet heal at 73, and see how "hard" it is to keep your pet alive then. It's too bad no other class at 73, or even 83 has a chance at "soloing" TT. Sure little DD from you, but pet does normal damage. Why do you think pets steal aggro from barbs even as they're spamming flesh ream? Maybe it's because of their damage output that increases their threat level to become greater than a barbs?

chipsing1234 wrote: »

1. Find a post where I mentioned herc can steal aggro from a barb. That was other people, not me.
2. You forgot venos are needed to lure.
3. When I mentioned soloing TT, I was referring to normal venos. Spend $200, I suppose you should have some advantage such as that.
4. Your introduction of "hands in your pants" is utterly, and completely irrelevant to any sort of point that has been brought up in this argument. Your using it as some sort of argument is completely unsupported and, well, rather idiotic.
5. If rankings shows that venos were in the top PvP, I'd look to see if they were phoenix venos. Seeing as no one seems to know whether the venos on the list are phoenix venos or not, or the PvP activity of phoenix venos in general, they cannot use it to show phoenix venos are not overpowered.

1 your right, you did not say herc specifically, you said a venos pets in general. There are only 2 that I know of that can routinely steal argo bosses, herc and pheonix. And since most bosses are inside dungeons, the nix cannot be summoned there since it flys, at least as far as I know since I have never seen a flying pet inside.

2- I have seen so many people complain that venos are the only class to lure and that its unfair, I assume you are one of those people, but I may be wrong. Im not going back through 100 pages of veno complaints to be sure.

3 -Hard to tell with you. You go from stating that you are complaining about pheonix venos to complaining about normal venos. Sorry if I cannot keep it straight.

4 - You have used in the past an arguement that was 'well maybe archers are more likely to pvp which is why they are top PVPers'. I am just using the same "Maybe" logic that you use, but I would like to thank you for admiting that the "maybe" logic is totally irrelevent. Which means that the stats are not.

5 - back to stating that its pheonix venos that are overpowered? See you previous complaint where you said it in general venos are overpowered. The stats that were posted were PVP and PVE. As to what type of venos are on the pvp and pve rankings, lets say all the top ones are nix venos and they are still just in second place with archers having a large margin. It still means that venos even with the nix's are not overpowered. Because with the nixs they still only rank second. And without the nixs we do not know where they rank for sure.

And I know someone, not you chip, said that the likely reason that archers are top rank is because of their aoe attacks can take out several people faster. If that were truely the reason, then BMs should EASILY top the charts, as I understand it, they have the most AOE skills, including AOE with Stun.

I think you can now understand my confusion with my understanding of your complaints. You say its venos in general that are overpowered but then you say that its the pheonix venos that are overpowered, and not the normal.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I think we created a monster complimenting Faustinna on a post she made a couple days ago. Calm down hun. Just cuz you went to college don't mean you know it all. I only agree with about 40% of which you spew. The rest is just long drawn out rants about ****, that could have been stated in just a few short sentences, instead of chapters of even more ****. I'll say it again, you do seem to mean well. And I do agree with some of what you say. But dear, please shorten up your spews. Because your kinda coming off as being a self righteous b***h, who thinks the more she writes, the smarter it makes her appear.

Reading your long drawn out posts here gives me the feeling I'm being preached to by some person who thinks they know it all, and feels the need to school the rest of us with her own wisdom. Wisdom comes in more forms than just going to school. Even more wisdom comes from life, and living it. And frankly, I think you need to live much more of it, before you should be preaching to the rest of us. Just my opinion of course. Usually the way we think as a young person full of **** and vinegar thinking we know it all and wanting to change the world, changes tremendously after we have lived life, and had some real personal experiences.

And for the record I don't consider us humans as animals. Animals do not travel space, and invent fantastic new things. They do not think complex thoughts, and are able to plan things for their future. Us humans exist on a higher plain.

As far as religion goes. I never will get down on a person for choosing that path. If that is what they need to achieve inner peace with themselves, so be it. But religion in this world, is also what is destroying it.

Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people's business. And in some extreme cases it even gives it's followers the excuse to go out and kill others. To me religion in general is just a form of mind control.

Why does anything people debate about have to deteriorate to insults and name calling? All this post does is insult, provoke, flame bait and contribute nothing. Why make it? If you felt such negative feelings towards me and what i am saying you could choose not to read it. Public insulting is the better way to go? And then you wonder why everyone is so angry and cynical today. People can't even have a friendly little debate without insults being thrown out.

You said in a previous post you think you and I could be friends in real life. After that, i seriously doubt i ever would. That entire post is just a child lashing out. And don't get angry at being called childish when you act it. So please grow up, again not an insult but a point of fact, and attempt to convey your opinions in an adult manner.

Zenpachi - Very fun talking with you. We have differences of opinions, neither of ours right or wrong in the grand scheme of things, or even mattering more then a grain of sand also, but still fun to debate and compare opinions. But i believe this is really the wrong place for these kinds of debates. We haven't inspired creativity from anyone, only negativity. So the productivity of this debate is pretty much gone at this point.

Still very enjoyable. We should chat in game sometimes about all this. When people can't proof read what they write before they post it is more fun b:chuckle

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear

The funny thing about it all, is I seen your Post Faust, as a child who wanted to be noticed so she was standing on the highest soap box she could find, and wanted to show others here look at me, Im better than you all. And this is really how the world works, lol. I got kids about your age. My point was just chill out. Maybe just maybe you don't know the answers to all the worlds troubles. And maybe just maybe you still have a few things to learn. Whether or not you choose to do so, is your business. But lord help those you know from having to listen to such tirades on everything, and anything. As you think you just know everything about everything, lol.

In this generation, and with recent events. I call this Obamaitis.

Never mind do as you wish. Your soapbox preaching is still better than some posts seen here on the forums. I guess I just never did like people who think they know it all. Continue on.

Itachi - Lost City

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

I want Barbarians nerfed because they can Tank Bosses I can't.
I want Clerics Nerfed because they can heal people.
I want Archers nerfed because they shoot me full of arrows and it hurts!
I want Wizards nerfed because their spells look too cool.
I want Bladmasters nerfed because they have long endurance stuns!
I want ALL bosses nerfed that have AOE so I can solo them ALL with my herc and make you whining bytchs whine louder.

I want you all Nerfed with lethal doses of Heavy Ionizing Radiation! Go away! Leave me my Perfect World!

~Saitada

*edit* For those of you who have no sense of humor.. this thread is sarcastic humor except the part where I want ya'll to die.... no really. I do.

yes our spell does look cool b:pleased

Faustinna - Heavens Tear

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The funny thing about it all, is I seen your Post Faust, as a child who wanted to be noticed so she was standing on the highest soap box she could find, and wanted to show others here look at me, Im better than you all. And this is really how the world works, lol. I got kids about your age. My point was just chill out. Maybe just maybe you don't know the answers to all the worlds troubles. And maybe just maybe you still have a few things to learn. Whether or not you choose to do so, is your business. But lord help those you know from having to listen to such tirades on everything, and anything. As you think you just know everything about everything, lol.

In this generation, and with recent events. I call this Obamaitis.

Never mind do as you wish. Your soapbox preaching is still better than some posts seen here on the forums. I guess I just never did like people who think they know it all. Continue on.

Left hook, right hook, uppercut. A little razzle dazzle and the win. Congratulations! b:victory

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Boza_cutter - Lost City wrote: »

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Will you people, stop posting huge walls of text? Who da heck at his sain mind would read all this...I dunno what to call it!

And stop repeating same things over and over and over and over and over and over...*bump the head*... again!

Thx in advance b:shocked

I AGREE


NERF WALLS OF TEXT NO ONE ACTUALLY READS OR EVEN CARES ABOUT!!!


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Powermind - Lost City

*whines and throws tantrum* Veno's are overpowerd please respond gm before i make more post b:thanks

Andiano - Lost City

no they arent u just sux >> soz

Andiano - Lost City

believe me its rly weak enemy.. >>

Powermind - Lost City

Andiano - Lost City wrote: »

no they arent u just sux >> soz

If you can't read my sarcasm I believe you have the mental age of 10- wow now I feel so smart I beat down a 10 year old

Andiano - Lost City

its 3am and im drunk (maybe QQ).. dont get it to urself.. im talking with metafors..

kooshdin

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

My personal feelings concerning the human race as a whole. 90% of humanity really does need to die. Personally, I would be happier if the entire species became extinct. I think Earth would be much better off without us here. All we do is fight, poison, kill, destroy and ruin everything we touch with very few real exceptions to the rule. Humanity hates because of skin color, religion, country, caste, location, hair color, eye color, or just because someone has something you don't or for no reason at all other than they were taught to hate.

If we stopped doing all that, I would revise how I feel about people. I don't see that ever happening though.

~Saitada

i dont think humanity hates because of skin colour, what they hate is the culture they see behind that colour because they see something different to what they are used too.

If humans died and the earth was inherited by brainless animals again all they'd do every day is eat each other for breakfast. They are worse than us at least we make some sort of attempt to make our food, food and not a living lunch b:laugh

Saitada - Sanctuary

kooshdin wrote: »

i dont think humanity hates because of skin colour, what they hate is the culture they see behind that colour because they see something different to what they are used too.

If humans died and the earth was inherited by brainless animals again all they'd do every day is eat each other for breakfast. They are worse than us at least we make some sort of attempt to make our food, food and not a living lunch b:laugh

You haven't seen all cultures. A few actually EAT things that are still alive and protesting. But.. in general, yeah we tend to sanitize our eating.

Still, I have to disagree with you about the skin color bit. I've lived in the South. Trust me when I say that the hatred is based on color of skin. I have yet to find any difference in culture of people I have met in the United States, Mexico and Canada that would make me hate them for their culture.

I have met people that are Muslim, Buhddist, Tao, Christian, Pagan, Athiest, Hindu and a few others I can't remember the names of that are sitting on the tip of my tounge and refusing to come out.

NONE of them were different enough from me or you to warrant hatred. Yet they are Hated by others because of skin color, religion etc etc.

The EXCUSE for the hatred just covers up the fact we as humans hate whats not like us. W/O any real basis for doing so if we are willing to look past the differences and see the similiarities.

Anyway. Got stuff to do. ttyl.

~S

AndromedaB - Sanctuary

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

You haven't seen all cultures. A few actually EAT things that are still alive and protesting. But.. in general, yeah we tend to sanitize our eating.

Still, I have to disagree with you about the skin color bit. I've lived in the South. Trust me when I say that the hatred is based on color of skin. I have yet to find any difference in culture of people I have met in the United States, Mexico and Canada that would make me hate them for their culture.

I have met people that are Muslim, Buhddist, Tao, Christian, Pagan, Athiest, Hindu and a few others I can't remember the names of that are sitting on the tip of my tounge and refusing to come out.

NONE of them were different enough from me or you to warrant hatred. Yet they are Hated by others because of skin color, religion etc etc.

The EXCUSE for the hatred just covers up the fact we as humans hate whats not like us. W/O any real basis for doing so if we are willing to look past the differences and see the similiarities.

Anyway. Got stuff to do. ttyl.

~S

noooooooooooooooo u changed ur sig b:cry

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

NONE of them were different enough from me or you to warrant hatred. Yet they are Hated by others because of skin color, religion etc etc.

Honestly, nothing ever warrants or justifies hatred. Hatred is simply an emotional response with no rational basis. Sadness and despair are right along with hatred in being otherwise useless and irrational emotions. If I hate anything, it's that we must endure these things at all.

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Going on the assumption that 90% of humanity is bad, then what you're basically saying is that that 90% is normal and the 10% who are "less then bad" are abnormal. So if 90% of a population is one way then it can't be bad, it can only be good. It's those 10% who give to charity and help thy neighbor you need to watch out for.

Majority behavior dictates rule of morality. You can either adapt to the morality of the times, or get crushed by it. And btw, that's what makes humanity great. Not good or bad, but adaptability. Only species that can thrive in any environment and make it our own. Times change, morality swings like a pendulum from conservative to liberal, but in the end the world keeps on spinning and life goes on. And nothing 99.99999% any of us do won't amount to a grain of sand when it's all said and done.

So sit back, enjoy the ride, and if you try reaaaally hard you might aspire to someone less then pure evil. b:victory

Micro organisms,bacteria