Arrogance and Stupidity like to go hand in hand

Granrey - Sanctuary

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

i do 39 runs all the time, me and a specific group of friends around my lvl. we get it done fast, like 15 mins maybe once everyone is inside. it's a lot faster and easier to do all of the fbs with people higher lvl than the dungeon mobs. if you can get it done in 15 minutes, why do it in a way that will take 2 hours? it just makes no sense to me.

personally i dont like to enter with a squad made up of any lower lvls other than the tabber, though i do end up doing it quite often, more often than i like. the issue is that people close in lvl to the fb mobs become handicaps to the team overall. it's just one extra person for the cleric to heal and same person doesnt do noteworthy damage to the mobs. it ends up that the cleric has to go into overdrive healing the lower lvls to try to prevent them from dying, which happens anyway because they just dont have the def or hp yet to take the elite mobs. on top of that, unless it's a 2nd character or something, the noobs dont know where to NOT run to (cannot say how many times a noob in the team aggro'd the 4 midgets on the hill in the 1st boss room, getting themselves killed).

and the mob quests should have just been saved for when you did your tabbed run. i know that when *I* had to do my 39, runners DEMANDED wine, so i used it, didnt get my mob quests and was very upset about it, but now it's become standard to do 39 unwined; it just goes without saying.

what you need to understand is that when doing fb runs with people higher in lvl.. those people have most likely done that run several times before, they know which mobs you need, which ones you dont, and they know what can and cannot kill you. they know the safe spots for you to stand, and all other things like that. do not mistake experience for arrogance. i tend to be a little bossy in fb runs, but that's not because i'm arrogant, it is because i want the run to go smoothly. speaking from experience, the only time i've had an epic fail in an fb was when the noobs in the team did not follow directions. i.e. when i'm pulling the guards from the boss, they just run in and start attacking the boss, OR they dont stay out of AOE range as instructed, get killed, and then the tank dies while the cleric is resing the suicidal tabber.

I totally understand your post. I’m new to this game, and prior of doing my fb19 I was aware that I just have to stay on the sides. I was coming to this forum prior to my FB so I knew my role. I have done my stay aside role on FB19, FB29 and about ten additional FB19 that I have been invited already.

Even at my level 39, I find the FB 19 challenging.

However, if you read my post you notice my squad was bad. They died 4 times, refused my help and some of them actually gave up, having me to call others to do 1/3 of the FB which is not easy to convince some high levels into it. (Some high levels are so arrogant that they said: “why you did not call me before?”)


Every time they died, we have to wait such a long time to start again since the cleric had to return from town and come all the way through the dungeon in which they did not clear all the mobs anyway. One of the guys took a shower during those periods.

I did not time properly but I think it took 2 hrs. Can you imagine seeing your squad getting defeated over and over and you doing nothing for 2 hrs?

At least I was laughing by seeing the action.

Bobncut - Sanctuary

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just be aware that mobs that will group agro, will still group agro, the difference is that you can pick where your gonna get the agro from and may even be able to reduce how many mobs come by being choosy where you start shooting.

~S

Actually, since the OP was talking about doing this on regular mobs in the outside world, you CAN use a bow to get one out of a herd. Regular mobs lose aggro quicker than the elite mobs. But, the one that got shot will hold aggro just a little longer than the others. Shoot, run away (using the "s" key for this so you can watch the mobs' aggro is usually best), wait for the crowd to start turning back, and engage your initial target. Once you have that figured out, you can add another shot or two to the target while you run. You don't even have to turn around to do that for some odd reason. This is not as easy as the veno-pull and is not a substitute at all inside an FB, but it has its uses.

Oh, and I hate that "stand in the back and don't do anything" approach to FBs. You have to learn somehow. The more runs you do with squads that are about the same level range, the more you understand how the classes work together. Racing the tabholder through the FB may be the most efficient way to get the experience and rep, but it is not being a good member of the community. Talk to the tabholder enough to let him know what you are doing and why and then he can help. Armed with a little knowledge, anyone high enough to be in the FB can be helpful. Likewise, doing all your FB runs with people many levels above yours is cheating yourself of some fun experiences and a chance to learn. If you do end up in a group as annoying as the OP did, ask questions until they either get you involved or get fed up and find someone else's tab to use.

Granrey - Sanctuary

Just to note another player had similar experience.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=188992

Vinat - Sanctuary

well 50 is still kinda low to be running 39s. 60+ is a good rule to go by. theyre simply just better equipped, if nothing else. youre 20 lvls higher than the 19, and 19 gives you trouble, 39 is harder than 19.. what would make you or anyone think a 10 lvl diff is enough for 39 when a 20 lvl diff isnt enough for a 19?

how will anyone learn? around 50ish, get a group, and go do some 19s, with or without tab. get the hang of it. when you can do that one with no hitches, then youre ready to try the higher ups. also a good idea to do your first runs as a runner with other experienced runners, so you can learn the strategies, where people need to stand, which things to lure, which guards to kill, etc.

and to op.. if you want your next runs done right then pm me when you need them. next should be your 51.. i'll help with your culti bosses and your fb with the mobs, and it'll take less than 2 hours.

Kamikiri - Lost City

Maiya - Lost City wrote: »

Doing a FB with levels around yours is a great way to learn, it can also be funner. I think high levels also die sometimes or almost more because they think they're invincible and charge in. I know I've done it once or twice and died, lol.

I was doing a FB51 run, my guild director a lv.7x or 8x fist BM tells me "let me tank"(Myraidtail Wyvern) so even with cleric they died..then I needed to rush in and save the day 6x barb(Boss was a walk in the park b:chuckle)

Semyezza - Heavens Tear

Lol. I tend to look at people my level and up and just ROFL. You're right. Arrogance and stupidity do go hand in hand.

But I wish you'd've been on HT, my guild raids FBs for fun. We like to calibrate our teamwork with them. Tab = not working? No biggie, as long as you get the quest done. =D

Gorgonia - Heavens Tear

orme wrote: »

Agreed, but let me play the Devil's Advocate here.

Many many many lower levels genuinely think that because you're higher, you have it easy, your panties are filled with coins, and it's your DUTY to invest your time helping them.

No "thanks" no "please", they only try to boss/harass you around.

No wonder that later on many newbies are looked down.

well, the other day a friend asked for help in a FB19. I was down at Tusk Town and had to travel all the way to Silk Ridge for let's say... 12k (U grind it in less than half an hour I think.. any lvl60 mob will give me around 350 to 600 exp per kill). I got there and there were two lvl20 barbs that needed the FB done. I usually go and solo the whole FB when Im bored but whenever I'm in a FB I like everyone to help since they don't pay me for doing this (I don't ask for it, anyway) and it's better for them to try (and die xd) than not to try at all. Well, going back, I got there and there were these two barbs, two clerics and me. I called a friend veno that was bored and we started. One of the barbs was COMPLETELY rude towards the rest of us, helpers, and I so put him in his place. Like, c'mon... we're helping you, losing time and you think you can come and treat us as if we were your slaves?. Gosh, I got really mad... so I said "okay, he wants to boss us around? Let him be". Stupid as an arrogant barb can be, he believed he could survive a whole army without a scratch... I told him not to get in the way while I pulled but he kept running after my pet and ended up getting all the aggro from the mobs there... the first time I saved him, the second I didnt. "You want to prove urself useful? okay there u go" I pulled, he ran after my pet and he didn't expect aroun 7-8 mobs to go after him... he cried for help but I had asked the clerics not to heal him. He died in around... 3 seconds? Well, there he learned... and started saying "please".

We can go and help (I'm not really a high lvl but I can help a lot) but don't treat us as sh*t. Say "please" and "thanks" and I think it's more than enough for us. I really don't mind seeing you die a lot inside the FB if you're not respectful towards other squad members :P.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear

Gorgonia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

well, the other day a friend asked for help in a FB19. I was down at Tusk Town and had to travel all the way to Silk Ridge for let's say... 12k (U grind it in less than half an hour I think.. any lvl60 mob will give me around 350 to 600 exp per kill). I got there and there were two lvl20 barbs that needed the FB done. I usually go and solo the whole FB when Im bored but whenever I'm in a FB I like everyone to help since they don't pay me for doing this (I don't ask for it, anyway) and it's better for them to try (and die xd) than not to try at all. Well, going back, I got there and there were these two barbs, two clerics and me. I called a friend veno that was bored and we started. One of the barbs was COMPLETELY rude towards the rest of us, helpers, and I so put him in his place. Like, c'mon... we're helping you, losing time and you think you can come and treat us as if we were your slaves?. Gosh, I got really mad... so I said "okay, he wants to boss us around? Let him be". Stupid as an arrogant barb can be, he believed he could survive a whole army without a scratch... I told him not to get in the way while I pulled but he kept running after my pet and ended up getting all the aggro from the mobs there... the first time I saved him, the second I didnt. "You want to prove urself useful? okay there u go" I pulled, he ran after my pet and he didn't expect aroun 7-8 mobs to go after him... he cried for help but I had asked the clerics not to heal him. He died in around... 3 seconds? Well, there he learned... and started saying "please".

We can go and help (I'm not really a high lvl but I can help a lot) but don't treat us as sh*t. Say "please" and "thanks" and I think it's more than enough for us. I really don't mind seeing you die a lot inside the FB if you're not respectful towards other squad members :P.

Try playing a cleric. Every other player in this game thinks they can shout out what you should be doing, while you've been doing it from the start. Thats why yelling for heals = you get none. b:victory

Foxx - Heavens Tear

There is nothing more annoying than a low level who feels the need to "help" and dies and forces you to wait 10 minutes while they find their way back.
This is particularly relevant for killing dismal shade in SP too.

Rosewhite - Sanctuary

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There is nothing more annoying than a low level who feels the need to "help" and dies and forces you to wait 10 minutes while they find their way back.
This is particularly relevant for killing dismal shade in SP too.

If this is so annoying then why bother helping them. My gist is this and I believe someone else mentioned this. Let them know what they can or cannot do and if they continue, just leave to their fate. I've done more than my share of fb19s and usually the tabber gets bored just watching all the other high lvls attack and want to do something. So they try to "help" and it gets them killed. If they want to help, give them a different job. While u kill tell them to pick up the loots. It'll keep them busy for a while and maybe one of the high lvls can stay nearby and warn them if they are getting too close. Otherwise if you come off arrogant, they will respond in kind. Taking a little time to explain will save a lot of heartache I've found.

Foxx - Heavens Tear

Rosewhite - Sanctuary wrote: »

Taking a little time to explain will save a lot of heartache I've found.

I always tell them to stay out of trouble. Most do, but some can't resist the urge to "help".
To elaborate... most of them could avoid them deaths if they had vent and could listen to which mob has the most agro and at the very least listen to what was being said. (ie which mob to attack if they insist on "helping")

There will always be poor players who dont learn, dont listen and dont follow instructions. There is no cure for it.

Baraiai - Sanctuary

I think its stupid. We were all noobs once. Treat people with respect Karma will have hell to pay to those who think they're better than someone because they lvled slightly faster.

EDIT: All my **** was cut wtf Anywho, When I was 10 I needed help with a quest and a higher lvl laughed at me and ignored me. I grindfested and when I was 40 that dude was 20 and they asked me for help I refused. >.> Karma bites.

Not to mention if it doesn't benefit them they don't give a **** XP I help anyways and I got friends for it they still talk to me and we laugh all day XD

when I do fbs I just have the lower lvl stay back so they don't pull agro

fuzzles

Baraiai - Sanctuary wrote: »

Anywho, When I was 10 I needed help with a quest and a higher lvl laughed at me and ignored me. I grindfested and when I was 40 that dude was 20 and they asked me for help I refused. >.> Karma bites.

Not to mention if it doesn't benefit them they don't give a **** XP I help anyways and I got friends for it they still talk to me and we laugh all day XD

when I do fbs I just have the lower lvl stay back so they don't pull agro

Riiighto.. a few things:

1. What could you possibly have needed help with at level 10? Are you completely incompetent?

2. You're level 41 or something. What could you possible help with aside from some of the low level bosses?

3. You're in heated agreement with everyone else, although you're slightly too slow to realise it. Some people are saying keep the lowbies back in FBs... while other people are saying it's rude to keep the lowbies back in FBs.. your post in a nutshell was "It's rude to keep lowbies back in FBs, karma karma, blah blah, anecdote! Karma blah. Instead of keeping the lowbies back in FBs I prefer to keep the lowbies back in FBs"

That might be a slight oversimplification, but despite not knowing you at all, I dislike you.

Rosewhite - Sanctuary

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I always tell them to stay out of trouble. Most do, but some can't resist the urge to "help".
To elaborate... most of them could avoid them deaths if they had vent and could listen to which mob has the most agro and at the very least listen to what was being said. (ie which mob to attack if they insist on "helping")

There will always be poor players who dont learn, dont listen and dont follow instructions. There is no cure for it.

Okay now that makes more sense, and Baralai as much as I hate to admit it. Fuzzles is right on some counts. In his cold clinical way, he has a point. At lvl 10, you wouldn't be help to anyone in fact u would be more of a hinderance than anything. It maybe your FB but the fact is that most of the time, you are not the right lvl to even be trying to do any fighting. If you must do an attack, at least wait until you are at the boss. The old guild i was in, when i played MY-EN would let the tabber get the last couple of hits from the boss. At least this way they won't feel completely useless.

Everyone was a newbie once yes, but that's not an excuse to get yourself needlessly killed. Anyway, sorry for the wall of text.

Seablue - Sanctuary

Kamikiri - Lost City wrote: »

I was doing a FB51 run, my guild director a lv.7x or 8x fist BM tells me "let me tank"(Myraidtail Wyvern) so even with cleric they died..then I needed to rush in and save the day 6x barb(Boss was a walk in the park b:chuckle)

Seriously? A bm that lvl should be able to tank Wyvern without any problem unless he uses lightarmor.

Andiano - Lost City

always do fbs with guild/friends if it randoms they will ignore u if u want to invite lv around u cuz he is useless.. he will die fast and he dont get exp...
im doing 1-5 fbs a day and im usually friendly (did fb19 when protected llv19-30 that were atking other mobs = but sometimes when ppl are trashtalking like: I need gouf where he is<-- repeated 10 times even after getting answer then he left pt = = or: kill the boss tab will disappear <-- worse thing >>

About leaving pt.. some ppl just are nubz or they are from opposite guilds..
we needed EP for fb59 just in case... and when herc got stuck at first boss (strange bug not fixed yet) we all died and EP left... we did it without him

I had fb with lv44 <-tab holder (BM) that was atking evry mob lv8x <-- EP
lv8x <-- Tank at the first boss that 4x guy was atking (aoe boss = then EP and Tank dced >> and all of em died when they came back.. we still killed him and ppl were laughing that some 5x ppl killed the aoe boss b:cute
^-- these ppl were from FB_Help channel that is often in LC server.. i dk what about other servers but if its not made.. make it u will get much ppl joining it b:victory

Bobncut - Sanctuary

Seablue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Seriously? A bm that lvl should be able to tank Wyvern without any problem unless he uses lightarmor.

There's more weird here than just that. Shouldn't a fist BM and a barb between them have been able to shut down the third boss's AOEs completely? Without that nuisance to the healer(s) and any other "back row" team members, that boss should have been easy.

It actually sounds like the fist BM was trying to solo the last boss to keep everyone (including the tabholder) out of the AOE. Regardless of where people are on the question of involving the whole squad (e.g., the tabholder) in FBs up to 39, by FB51 you really should be utilizing whatever resources you have. The excuse that they might die of cluelessness wears pretty thin by this point.

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

You can do fb39 with a party of level 39s. If the high levels got wiped, they had no right to be arrogant in the first place.

However it's customary for high levels to ask the lowbies to stay back because they tend to go faster than is safe for a party of people close to the tab level. That and they can only keep their eyes on so many things, and if you start attacking some mob they're not aggroing, you can get aggro and thus get killed if the healer isn't paying attention or something.

Granrey - Sanctuary

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You can do fb39 with a party of level 39s. If the high levels got wiped, they had no right to be arrogant in the first place.

However it's customary for high levels to ask the lowbies to stay back because they tend to go faster than is safe for a party of people close to the tab level. That and they can only keep their eyes on so many things, and if you start attacking some mob they're not aggroing, you can get aggro and thus get killed if the healer isn't paying attention or something.

The only issue that I see for level 39s doing their FB is the connected mobs and that they explode.

I still agree with you anyways.

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

Your tank should not be killed by explodeyness if you have a decent healer. Even a flimsy blademaster can survive an explosion. The trick is to have your melee classes healed and your ranged classes FAR away like they should be. Even when I was that level in my own FB, I don't get oneshotted, and I'm a pure dex archer......(Yes I was allowed to participate in my own FB. High levels weren't as plentiful back then)