Arrogance and Stupidity like to go hand in hand

Granrey - Sanctuary
Granrey - Sanctuary Posts: 2,050 Arc User
edited February 2009 in General Discussion
Arrogance and Stupidity like to go hand in hand

I will ignore some important parts of the story to make it quick.

Last Sunday, I was trying to complete several quest inside the FB39 (BM Level 38). I had to kill some mobs to get some items. Another BM and a Cleric (both same level as me) were also asking for help at the front of the cave. Nobody wanted to help because it was not a real FB.

After waiting for a while we decided to do it on our own. We all got killed once but actually got a bit deep in the dungeon. Even though we were killing the mobs it was too risky and it was taking too long. We continued calling friends and some level 50-60 players came to help us. Still, we were helping a lot since the mobs are in packs inside the dungeon and it was too much for our friends to handle. We finished our quests and learned a lot. For instance, we learned that some mobs appear to be connected. Therefore, when you try to lure one of them, the ones next to him will be activated too.

Next day, I’m doing my FB39. Since, I had experience in the dungeon plus better stats and upgraded skills from the day before; I wanted to help same as I did the day before.

Well, the arrogant players on my squad that were invited by a friend member of my guild (Level 38, who wanted to complete the quests I did the day before) did not want me to help at all. All they were saying was: “move back low level”.

I stopped helping and sat down on safe spot (besides, they see this as a pay job rather than fun and helping).

As a summary every member of the squad got killed 4 times. I only got killed once since they never cleared the corridors completely, if you run back some mobs were waiting for you.

On the last boss, they got killed twice and some of them actually left the squad. I decided to call some of my friends and they finish the job and in couple minutes.

The entire thing took about 2 hrs.

Questions:

Why some high level players are so arrogant and even stupid?

Why some of them don’t want to help at all?

Are some mobs in the dungeon actually connected? This was one of the main reasons for the squad to fail, since several mobs would team up rather than 1.
Post edited by Granrey - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • Qqme - Lost City
    Qqme - Lost City Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    b:bye too bad u arent on LC fb39 is sooooo easy b:shutup
  • Amsel - Lost City
    Amsel - Lost City Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    well i know i ask the fber to stay back cause it is super easy for you to die >.> and no one wants to help cause well hardly any exp and its out of the way, i could be grinding alot more then helping u get mobs u will get in one lvl anyway >.>

    at this point in the game i get to around 20 to 30% through a lvl when i run out of quests so fbs really are needed for higher lvls

    just because someone dies dosent mean much, i tend to die alot cause i dont pay attention, its how they die, like pulling too many mobs at once, or running ahead then **** them >.<

    and no they are not connected i have pulled almost every single mob in there, depends on how u pull is all
  • Devarsi - Sanctuary
    Devarsi - Sanctuary Posts: 542 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    mobs are kinda connected in that you can't regularly attack one without pulling the other.. this is true in most fbs for groups of 2 or 3 mobs together .. however if you use the veno pet pull technique you can solo pull almost all mobs.. there are some mobs like the flames in fb29 that cannot be pulled
  • scridon
    scridon Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Well honestly sometimes your better off just going in and doing things like this with people your own lvl. People who are more aware of your abilities and limits when it comes to the mobs and boss's in an instance designed for your lvl.

    Also another tip when inviting higher lvls to help you with an FB (or instance of any sort) just stay back and let them do most of the work. Perhaps once they have the aggro then you can hop in and smack the beast a few times. Usually when a squad and I are helping with FB's we like to get things done asap meaning that things might be a little to chaotic for the lower lvl's to handle. When you get to a boss, if those higher lvls don't inform you about the boss's skills and so on then you should ask so you don't go and do something stupid like get yourself killed. XD
  • Granrey - Sanctuary
    Granrey - Sanctuary Posts: 2,050 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Devarsi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    mobs are kinda connected in that you can't regularly attack one without pulling the other.. this is true in most fbs for groups of 2 or 3 mobs together .. however if you use the veno pet pull technique you can solo pull almost all mobs.. there are some mobs like the flames in fb29 that cannot be pulled

    We lacked a Veno since my squad mates considered they did not need one. The problem with the aparently conected mobs were the minions around Herculi.

    These minions with the boss killed them twice in matter of a minute or two.
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    In the dungeons there are mobs that pull in pairs. Some mobs don't pull in pairs, but they will aggro if you get too close. Some are patrols which will also aggro when their path comes within aggro range of the players.

    The players you grouped with were arrogant and they were idiots. A party with all members working towards completing the objective will succeed more readily than one with only some of the members doing so. They were wrong to not allow you to assist, and it might have prevented them from getting killed so many times. If they died 4 times each then they each lost 16% XP, so I guess they got what they had coming to them for their arrogance and idiocy.

    Not knowing how they tried to do the dungeon, I cannot actually tell if they were doing something wrong, but if they were indeed arrogant about their ability to do the dungeon easily as it was below their level it's quite possible they were not properly pulling mobs such that they were aggroing more than they could handle, and by doing so repeatedly they sound like idiots which is why I made the initial comment.

    Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »
    We lacked a Veno since my squad mates considered they did not need one. The problem with the aparently conected mobs were the minions around Herculi.

    These minions with the boss killed them twice in matter of a minute or two.

    Can't the minions be pulled one by one with a ranged attack?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Maiya - Lost City
    Maiya - Lost City Posts: 2,686 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Doing a FB with levels around yours is a great way to learn, it can also be funner. I think high levels also die sometimes or almost more because they think they're invincible and charge in. I know I've done it once or twice and died, lol.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • scridon
    scridon Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »
    We lacked a Veno since my squad mates considered they did not need one. The problem with the aparently conected mobs were the minions around Herculi.

    These minions with the boss killed them twice in matter of a minute or two.

    In any instance you go in. Rule number one is to always bring a Veno. The lvl of the Veno doesn't really matter so much as long as she/he knows how to pull.

    The only time you don't need a Veno is if you have a squad of high lvl players that can handle the damage and aoe the hell outta the mobs.
  • Granrey - Sanctuary
    Granrey - Sanctuary Posts: 2,050 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    As I said, some of them actually gave up and left. Leaving me with the issue of having to get high levels to help me finish the quest. At least it was still attractive to my friends since we had a boss to kill and they got good mats from him.

    They actually allowed me to take the last shot at the boss. I don’t know if that helped on mats since they said they got good mats from him.
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    scridon wrote: »
    In any instance you go in. Rule number one is to always bring a Veno. The lvl of the Veno doesn't really matter so much as long as she/he knows how to pull.

    The only time you don't need a Veno is if you have a squad of high lvl players that can handle the damage and aoe the hell outta the mobs.

    Why does the veno have to pull?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • scridon
    scridon Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    You do NOT need high lvl to finish your fb's. o.0

    How do you suppose those of us at higher lvls got our fb's done? We certainly couldn't call upon the GM's. b:laugh

    Here is your basic squad build for fb's; 1 or 2 clerics, Barbarian, Veno, and the slots left over are basically just fillers. With this squad set up you wont need high lvl help, it might just take a bit longer. b:chuckle


    EDIT:
    Why does the veno have to pull?

    Well the veno doesn't have to pull if you don't mind getting slaughtered by 5 elite mobs smacking you all at the same time.

    Veno's have a "secret" skill in this game. They can magically pull one mob at a time rather then 5. ;)
  • Saitada - Sanctuary
    Saitada - Sanctuary Posts: 3,220 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Why does the veno have to pull?
    Veno sends in her pet. Waits till her pet has damaged the target mob, then despawns her pet. Target mob now comes for the Veno... but no other mob joins it. Single pull of dangerous agroing mobs from a safe distance accomplished.

    ~S
  • Granrey - Sanctuary
    Granrey - Sanctuary Posts: 2,050 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »



    Can't the minions be pulled one by one with a ranged attack?

    We actually tried that the day before when the other BM and the cleric were with me.

    We pulled the first two patroling gouls by using Drake wich is the the only range skill that we had. I guess the cleric had range skills too but I ignore why we did not try them out.

    The time we got killed was when we tried the next two gouls that are standing next to each other blocking the tunnel. We used Drake on one and the other one was activated too. After we killed the other 2 mobs, one by one. but as I said it was taking too long and deeper in the dungeon would be more dificult.
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »
    We actually tried that the day before when the other BM and the cleric were with me.

    We pulled the first two patroling gouls by using Drake wich is the the only range skill that we had. I guess the cleric had range skills too but I ignore why we did not try them out.

    The time we got killed was when we tried the next two gouls that are standing next to each other blocking the tunnel. We used Drake on one and the other one was activated too. After we killed the other 2 mobs, one by one. but as I said it was taking too long and deeper in the dungeon would be more dificult.

    I've always used a bow to pull mobs. Habit from another MMO I used to play where the tank tended to do the pulling. A level 1 bow only needs base dex of 5.




    scridon wrote: »
    Well the veno doesn't have to pull if you don't mind getting slaughtered by 5 elite mobs smacking you all at the same time.

    Veno's have a "secret" skill in this game. They can magically pull one mob at a time rather then 5. ;)


    FYI, don't act like a complete **** next time you answer a simple question. The other person actually managed to do so without acting like a complete ****.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Why does the veno have to pull?

    Archers can pull, too, if they do not mind dying.
  • stormbull
    stormbull Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    The last FB I aided in consisted of the following classes: 1 veno, 1 cleric, 1 barb (highest lvl), 3 archers.

    The barb just got in the way of our arrows ^^

    Almost everything died before he could get even a handful of hits in.
  • Granrey - Sanctuary
    Granrey - Sanctuary Posts: 2,050 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I've always used a bow to pull mobs. Habit from another MMO I used to play where the tank tended to do the pulling. A level 1 bow only needs base dex of 5.

    Can I use bow and arrows since I'm a BM? just for pullin of course.

    I know I can use axes, pole arms but I don't know bow and arrows?
  • Saitada - Sanctuary
    Saitada - Sanctuary Posts: 3,220 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Can I use bow and arrows since I'm a BM? just for pullin of course.

    I know I can use axes, pole arms but I don't know bow and arrows?
    Yes you can. Just not Slingshots and Crossbows. But regular bows... yes.

    ~S
  • Granrey - Sanctuary
    Granrey - Sanctuary Posts: 2,050 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yes you can. Just not Slingshots and Crossbows. But regular bows... yes.

    ~S

    Wow, this would have saved me so many deaths in all my previous levels, since sometimes mobs are packed and I had no way to pull them out.

    Mainly at the mines in Archo.

    I will try this technique.

    thx for letting me know.
  • Saitada - Sanctuary
    Saitada - Sanctuary Posts: 3,220 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Wow, this would have saved me so many deaths in all my previous levels, since sometimes mobs are packed and I had no way to pull them out.

    Mainly at the mines in Archo.

    I will try this technique.

    thx for letting me know.

    Just be aware that mobs that will group agro, will still group agro, the difference is that you can pick where your gonna get the agro from and may even be able to reduce how many mobs come by being choosy where you start shooting.

    ~S
  • Granrey - Sanctuary
    Granrey - Sanctuary Posts: 2,050 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Just be aware that mobs that will group agro, will still group agro, the difference is that you can pick where your gonna get the agro from and may even be able to reduce how many mobs come by being choosy where you start shooting.

    ~S

    Thx. I'll try it out.
  • Suiel - Sanctuary
    Suiel - Sanctuary Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Sorry to hear you had this kind of experience but it happens. I've had similar experiences myself and have been known to ask a tabholder to stay back at times in 39 as well.... simply because of this reason... almost half the mobs in 39 tend to "blow up" when they die. Depending on your hp, def, and your buffs, this may or may not kill any particular person standing next to them when this happens. Agro three or four of these kind of mobs, and you're looking at one or more deaths sometimes, whereas a higher lvl tank will usually have the hp to withstand it enough to survive and be healed before death. This is also the reason for a veno who knows how to pull singular mobs being in your party. In all honesty, archers and clerics are not intended to be pullers for single mobs, and if they can pull one instead of 2 or 3 its usually due to luck or patience (waiting for the mob to be far enough away from the rest to pull safely without agro'g a group) Assuming anyone but a veno can pull one mob and not agro the rest is risky and you take your chances.
    This is not to say you can't run an fb with a party your level as long as the party is strategically planned from the start. tank, veno, 2 clerics, tabholder, and extra damage dealer. 39 is one of the tougher fb's though running with a party of 39-40 characters, and will still take you awhile, and depending on your luck and strategy may also include a death or two. I wish you luck with your run and at the risk of sounding like one of these arrogant "higher levels" (I'm not that high) feel free to pm me in-game if you need any help.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    __________________________________________
    Who the hell invited an attack cleric as my support?b:beatup
  • DarkReCon - Heavens Tear
    DarkReCon - Heavens Tear Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    This is not just for the higher FB'r either.. I will agree that the higher lvls are VERY egotistical and they should realize where they came from.. Stupidity has become very common as of late including down right rudeness, another example is what happened just 20 minutes ago..

    I was grinding/farming on Supremes when I seen a WC for "Selling Christmas Blessing, Highest off wins" (I will not state the name of this person but I do have Fraps and SS) and then came back 2 minutes later saying "under 1mil, you all are crazy, forget it".. I wispered back to him saying "What did you expect, its only 1% crit, the V-Day thing is the money maker now." as to which he replied "Your a re tard welcome to blacklist".. Now what was that all about, I made a polite comment to him knowing what they are going for cause I just tried to sell mine yesterday and the highest bidder was 700K.. Has all the stress from the real world come to follow on PW or what, I have noticed alot more KS'n, rudeness and cursing on the server in the last month then I have the whole time playing.. Im not new or bashful (should hear my mouth IRL) but just an observation I have noticed..

    If I was on Sanc I would have helped you Granrey cause I am one of those that hasnt forgotten where I came from..

    Mage - 61 - DarkReCon
    Cleric - 60 - DarkReCon_C
    FA Veno - 44 - DarkReCon_V
    HA Veno - 33 - LadyTank
    Why wont my sig work.. Not kool..
  • orme
    orme Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Agreed, but let me play the Devil's Advocate here.

    Many many many lower levels genuinely think that because you're higher, you have it easy, your panties are filled with coins, and it's your DUTY to invest your time helping them.

    No "thanks" no "please", they only try to boss/harass you around.

    No wonder that later on many newbies are looked down.
  • Alberic - Heavens Tear
    Alberic - Heavens Tear Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    orme wrote: »
    you have it easy, your panties are filled with coins, and it's your DUTY to invest your time helping them.

    1) You do have it easy
    2) You do have coins
    3) Indeed it is your duty. None of you are able to survive without a Cleric, without ME ! Without a Cleric you all are nothing but dead meat ! So, you'd better behave if you don't want me to let you all die to teach you some manners ! Know your place !

    4) Last point, your colors and typefont sucks. Change them.
  • DarkReCon - Heavens Tear
    DarkReCon - Heavens Tear Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    orme wrote: »
    Agreed, but let me play the Devil's Advocate here.

    Many many many lower levels genuinely think that because you're higher, you have it easy, your panties are filled with coins, and it's your DUTY to invest your time helping them.

    No "thanks" no "please", they only try to boss/harass you around.

    No wonder that later on many newbies are looked down.

    yes I will agree to a part of this as to some low lvl's do constantly ask but I for one dont mind helping if you are polite about it, but politness leave the area with high lvl's.. I have more higher lvl'd people just walk up to my Cleric and say "Buff me..", the lower lvl's say "Can I get a buff plz.. " Im to the point now where Ill help a low lvl before I help a high lvl..
    Why wont my sig work.. Not kool..
  • Saitada - Sanctuary
    Saitada - Sanctuary Posts: 3,220 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Alberic - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    1) You do have it easy
    2) You do have coins
    3) Indeed it is your duty. None of you are able to survive without a Cleric, without ME ! Without a Cleric you all are nothing but dead meat ! So, you'd better behave if you don't want me to let you all die to teach you some manners ! Know your place !

    4) Last point, your colors and typefont sucks. Change them.
    I'm a Veno. I have both Legendary pets. I solo 90% of the game content. What little I do need help with, rarely requires a cleric. Usually it's the clerics who need ME. Not the other way around.

    ~Saitada
  • orme
    orme Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    @Alberic : Wow your trousers are too tight. Go sit on a rake, I'm sure you'll love it.

    @DarkReCon : Mmm, I think I see your point, with time people forget that politeness is an angle stone of any civilized exchanges. Well, don't buff them. In any social exchange, "**** for tat" is the most efficient behavior.
  • Junon - Heavens Tear
    Junon - Heavens Tear Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Alberic - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    1) You do have it easy
    2) You do have coins
    3) Indeed it is your duty. None of you are able to survive without a Cleric, without ME ! Without a Cleric you all are nothing but dead meat ! So, you'd better behave if you don't want me to let you all die to teach you some manners ! Know your place !

    4) Last point, your colors and typefont sucks. Change them.

    Did someone stick a gun to your head and force you to type this BS?

    Who are you to say we all have it easy? I'm always struggling with money, mostly because I can't put in enough hours to farm any and grinding is also becoming expensive.

    When you start leveling my character for me and paying for things I want in the cash shop, then it'll be my duty to help you.

    I rarely join squads only when I need to kill a boss or do FBs is all. But mission the require for you to find items and kill x amount of monsters, I solo.

    I'am really hoping you were joking with that post.
  • Vinat - Sanctuary
    Vinat - Sanctuary Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    i do 39 runs all the time, me and a specific group of friends around my lvl. we get it done fast, like 15 mins maybe once everyone is inside. it's a lot faster and easier to do all of the fbs with people higher lvl than the dungeon mobs. if you can get it done in 15 minutes, why do it in a way that will take 2 hours? it just makes no sense to me.

    personally i dont like to enter with a squad made up of any lower lvls other than the tabber, though i do end up doing it quite often, more often than i like. the issue is that people close in lvl to the fb mobs become handicaps to the team overall. it's just one extra person for the cleric to heal and same person doesnt do noteworthy damage to the mobs. it ends up that the cleric has to go into overdrive healing the lower lvls to try to prevent them from dying, which happens anyway because they just dont have the def or hp yet to take the elite mobs. on top of that, unless it's a 2nd character or something, the noobs dont know where to NOT run to (cannot say how many times a noob in the team aggro'd the 4 midgets on the hill in the 1st boss room, getting themselves killed).

    and the mob quests should have just been saved for when you did your tabbed run. i know that when *I* had to do my 39, runners DEMANDED wine, so i used it, didnt get my mob quests and was very upset about it, but now it's become standard to do 39 unwined; it just goes without saying.

    what you need to understand is that when doing fb runs with people higher in lvl.. those people have most likely done that run several times before, they know which mobs you need, which ones you dont, and they know what can and cannot kill you. they know the safe spots for you to stand, and all other things like that. do not mistake experience for arrogance. i tend to be a little bossy in fb runs, but that's not because i'm arrogant, it is because i want the run to go smoothly. speaking from experience, the only time i've had an epic fail in an fb was when the noobs in the team did not follow directions. i.e. when i'm pulling the guards from the boss, they just run in and start attacking the boss, OR they dont stay out of AOE range as instructed, get killed, and then the tank dies while the cleric is resing the suicidal tabber.

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