Phoenix Flesh Ream Issues

Rundora - Lost City_1243871147

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What exactly must I not have read? And don't give me "this person already said _____." Of all the nix threads I've read the things I've heard in its favor can basically be summed up in: 1) LRN2PLAY, deal with it and suck less 2) QQ more, venos suck without it. Oh yea and 3) 20M+ gotta show for something. There's more than 3 posts between all those threads.

Yeah, that's Ren. He can't pvp without bleed, so he used his life savings to buy it and now he's all over the place saying "Venos need this, it makes us able to kill, and we spent a lot!"

Someone forgot to tell him that it costs like 10 times as much as a phoenix for other classes to hit like one.

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What exactly must I not have read? And don't give me "this person already said _____." Of all the nix threads I've read the things I've heard in its favor can basically be summed up in: 1) LRN2PLAY, deal with it and suck less 2) QQ more, venos suck without it. Oh yea and 3) 20M+ gotta show for something. There's more than 3 posts between all those threads.

Because I was the only one who mentioned money(therefore it looked like it was directed at me, if one had only read my first post and not the rest of them), and later on I admitting being wrong(to some degree, not completely) and also I agree that the Flesh Realm skill is screwed up.

Ren - Lost City

Bleed doesn't kill you in 3 ticks if you stop being a whiner and buy some pots. Before the pot runs out, 90% of foxes will be dead. Talking about MeLoveYou, Tsukihime, CutieEyes, E_AYCNL, and other such nubfoxes.

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Because I was the only one who mentioned money(therefore it looked like it was directed at me, if one had only read my first post and not the rest of them), and later on I admitting being wrong(to some degree, not completely) and also I agree that the Flesh Realm skill is screwed up.

'Scuse me then. I guess I missed the part where I mentioned your name. I must have also forgotten to add that I have heard these arguments multiple times in other threads. Was it only you posting in those other threads too? Or maybe I wasn't the one who didn't read.

And yes, many people agree that flesh ream must be fixed. Don't take it personally -.-

Trenith - Heavens Tear

You know its funny everyday more and more Triad QQs. Always seems to be alot from Avengers because they have "heart". How bout people stop whining and grow the hell up. Not my fault yall don't cash shop. Hell some our members didnt even buy there pheonixs with real money instead they saved up there coin. SOMETHING YOU CAN DO TO! But half yall to busy crying about yalls loss to us.

Heres something yall should try, fighting Radiance...

I do believe they have 30+ pheonixs... hmm... MUCH more then Triad even has....

As far as the pheonix "bug" use pots, it works. Stop trying to make the game easier because you fail at this thing called strategy.

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

'Scuse me then. I guess I missed the part where I mentioned your name.

You didnt, but you strickly mentioned "I wish venos wouldnt bring up the money they spent" and judging by the fact I was the only one who did in this thread, it LOOKED directed at me.

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I must have also forgotten to add that I have heard these arguments multiple times in other threads.Was it only you posting in those other threads too? Or maybe I wasn't the one who didn't read.

You didnt mention it in your first post, hence why I said something. No need to be mean, I'm a rational person.

odb

Chaotiic - Lost City wrote: »

Iv spent 25mil on my top alone. Its +6 with 4 immaculate hp stones. I still die in about 5 seconds to a veno with a phoenix my level. I barely ever get a shot off. A few times iv managed to hell spark and 1-2 shot the veno and died after from bleed. Your point is not valid as the same amount of money spent on gear does not make u equal to a veno ur levle with a phoenix. I can however kill lower level phoenix venos although i sometimes die along with them. No other class under 90 can kill me 1v1. Veno with a phoenix it happens.

Im talking out of experience and from a perspective of having spent quite a bit to have good gear. Venos with phoenix are overpowered purely and simply. Get to lv 90 hell get to lv 80 and get lv 5 flesh ream then u will see how overpowered u are. Also i notice u are commenting only on barbs and bms the heavy armor classes, enlighten me on how u fair against LA and robe classes?

so basically you are saying that no one should be able to kill you ever? typically games are made so each class has certain strengths and weaknesses. you have a choice how to build your character to exploit lessen these weaknesses/strengths. heavy veno would be a tank but would get ganked by even a low level mage because of low hp. robe veno gets 1 hit by archer/bm/barb easily. if you get the jump on a robe veno who wins? if this is changed will a veno even have a chance even if they get the jump on you? everyone only looks at something based on what will make their own class invincible against everyone else. you have the choice of changing your build to increase your hp by lowering your damage but you choose damage over survivability. you cant have everything your way. BMs cant go full str to increase damage or they will never hit anything and will die fast since they have to get close to attack a mob. they need to add dex for accuracy and vit for survivability. why should you be able to add 100% of your stats into damage and gain accuracy at the same time and not have any kind of weakness because you chose to go for full damage. same with barbs they need to add a bunch into vit so they can tank and dex for accuracy which lowers their melee damage considerably. why is it that archer/mage/cleric go full damage stat yet complain every time they die because of a lack of hp. you made your choice if you want to survive go buy a restat and add more vit. i have a BM and i've killed venos with phoenix almost 20 levels higher than i am solo. i also have a veno with a phoenix and get killed by pretty much everyone if i dont get the jump on them first. archer 15 levels lower can 1 hit a robe veno if they crit.(2 hit without crit) maybe we should take away archers crit since they can kill someone higher than themselves. like it has been said before people need to change their tactics to win. you cant stand toe to toe with the phoenix just like the veno cant stand toe to toe with an archer and trade blows. your argument is what does flesh ream do to a robe...well my question is what does an archer do to a robe? i'll answer for you archer vs. robe=dead robe. just because someone can actually compete with you doesnt mean it needs to be changed. adapt find a way around it and you will still win more than you lose against the veno just the way they are now. if the veno goes heavy armor then its a mages job to kill them not yours anyway or just use your metal attacks and you kill them easily. archers have everything. now that someone can actually beat them if they get a jump on an archer its like the end of the world.


sorry to pick on chaotic but he is always one of the archers complaining the most about how horrible it is that archers actually have a little competition.

Chaotiic - Lost City

odb wrote: »

so basically you are saying that no one should be able to kill you ever? typically games are made so each class has certain strengths and weaknesses. you have a choice how to build your character to exploit lessen these weaknesses/strengths. heavy veno would be a tank but would get ganked by even a low level mage because of low hp. robe veno gets 1 hit by archer/bm/barb easily. if you get the jump on a robe veno who wins? if this is changed will a veno even have a chance even if they get the jump on you? everyone only looks at something based on what will make their own class invincible against everyone else. you have the choice of changing your build to increase your hp by lowering your damage but you choose damage over survivability. you cant have everything your way. BMs cant go full str to increase damage or they will never hit anything and will die fast since they have to get close to attack a mob. they need to add dex for accuracy and vit for survivability. why should you be able to add 100% of your stats into damage and gain accuracy at the same time and not have any kind of weakness because you chose to go for full damage. same with barbs they need to add a bunch into vit so they can tank and dex for accuracy which lowers their melee damage considerably. why is it that archer/mage/cleric go full damage stat yet complain every time they die because of a lack of hp. you made your choice if you want to survive go buy a restat and add more vit. i have a BM and i've killed venos with phoenix almost 20 levels higher than i am solo. i also have a veno with a phoenix and get killed by pretty much everyone if i dont get the jump on them first. archer 15 levels lower can 1 hit a robe veno if they crit.(2 hit without crit) maybe we should take away archers crit since they can kill someone higher than themselves. like it has been said before people need to change their tactics to win. you cant stand toe to toe with the phoenix just like the veno cant stand toe to toe with an archer and trade blows. your argument is what does flesh ream do to a robe...well my question is what does an archer do to a robe? i'll answer for you archer vs. robe=dead robe. just because someone can actually compete with you doesnt mean it needs to be changed. adapt find a way around it and you will still win more than you lose against the veno just the way they are now. if the veno goes heavy armor then its a mages job to kill them not yours anyway or just use your metal attacks and you kill them easily. archers have everything. now that someone can actually beat them if they get a jump on an archer its like the end of the world.


sorry to pick on chaotic but he is always one of the archers complaining the most about how horrible it is that archers actually have a little competition.

If u read my post correctly you would see that i said NO OTHER CLASS UNDER 90. Im not trying to say no1 should be able to kill me and i should be invincible im saying its re.tarded that with my gear a veno whos not even 9x can still manage a kill on me 1v1. Is it so horrible that all other classes under 90 cant 1v1 a player lv 93 with +6 gear and a +8 weapon? Also i didnt just mention the fact venos under my level might kill me i also said that venos = to my level kill me without me firing a shot. Whether i would 1 shot them or not if i dont get a shot off how is this relevant? So u know 9x venos even in robes are very rarely a 1 shot even with a crit (without fury), 9x robe clerics vs archer doesnt = dead cleric and 9x robe mages can 1 shot an archer. This anger at phoenix and bleed is not about competition it is about the lack of it. You face a veno ur level with anything in la/robe you are dead full stop. You face it as a wr if the veno has some skill ur dead. Note u said u kill venos 20 levels higher than u with ur wr. Wat level is ur wr and what server are u on? If u are 7x that is a LIE if u are lower i will just say that veno was bad or once again u are lying come back when u wanna tell the truth.

You talk about venos being easy kills and indeed a lot of venos do. However these venos are usually in robes and anyone will tell u robe veno is NOT a pvp build the only option for pvp is light/heavy. You comment about sacrificing damage to go light/heavy is invalid. Robe/light/heavy venos if they are pvp build all have the same base magic for their weapon therefore same damage. In fact light can be said to have better damage due to the increase crit rate. If u have any more magic than ur weapon requires as a veno who wants to pvp u need to learn2 play unfortunately.

Who said i have low hp? I mentioned my gear so you could see i in no way have low hp. Im not complaining about dying from low hp im complaining about venos broken skill. The majority of venos will just run away and send their phoenix as they run until u die. How do u suggest every other class combats this? How do they kill a person they cant reach? Talk some sense please just because u are bad enough to die even tho u have a phoenix (and im pretty baffled as to how u are this bad) dont talk about its easy to kill a veno with one.

Question is ur veno in robes?

Finally to all those who have been saying use a pot, bleed is unaffected by pk pots and shields

Lirinala - Sanctuary

I agree. Flesh ream needs fixed. I've lost to venos 15 levels lower than me because of one skill. They even said it themselves as I die. "All I need is Flesh Ream." But, there are ways to avoid the bleed damage it causes. One simple method is to have a cleric use purify on you. I managed to tank Slither's bleed spell, as a level 56 veno, because I had a Cleric with an amazing purify spell. Not an exact comparison, perhaps, but the fact remains it can be removed. Yes, it drains HP fast. Yes, it will kill you if unchecked. But with the reload time on that skill and a cleric keeping an eye on the bleed damage, you should be able to wipe out the veno before it overpowers you.

For those of you without clerics... How about potions and powders? Some of those high level powders and potions should last you until the bleed fades away. Fire the highest red you have followed by a purple, followed by a red as soon as the cooldown is over, followed by the highest version of chaos powder you have. That HP heal over 30 seconds should give you an edge during which time you can use more potions and kill the veno, removing the threat. It's possible to survive this until they fix it. Yes, there are some people that abuse Flesh Ream and nothing but, just as there are people who abuse other bugs. *cough*Gouf*cough* but there are alot of other people who don't abuse things and we want to see them fixed as well. I for one, will never use, nor own or use a pheonix or a hercules. Buying overpowered pets like that takes the fun out of the game for me. I enjoy working hard for everything I do.

TLDR: The skill needs fixed. And use your cleric friends and healing arsenal to survive.

Rundora - Lost City_1243871147

odb wrote: »

so basically you are saying that no one should be able to kill you ever? typically games are made so each class has certain strengths and weaknesses. you have a choice how to build your character to exploit lessen these weaknesses/strengths. heavy veno would be a tank but would get ganked by even a low level mage because of low hp. robe veno gets 1 hit by archer/bm/barb easily. if you get the jump on a robe veno who wins? if this is changed will a veno even have a chance even if they get the jump on you? everyone only looks at something based on what will make their own class invincible against everyone else. you have the choice of changing your build to increase your hp by lowering your damage but you choose damage over survivability. you cant have everything your way. BMs cant go full str to increase damage or they will never hit anything and will die fast since they have to get close to attack a mob. they need to add dex for accuracy and vit for survivability. why should you be able to add 100% of your stats into damage and gain accuracy at the same time and not have any kind of weakness because you chose to go for full damage. same with barbs they need to add a bunch into vit so they can tank and dex for accuracy which lowers their melee damage considerably. why is it that archer/mage/cleric go full damage stat yet complain every time they die because of a lack of hp. you made your choice if you want to survive go buy a restat and add more vit. i have a BM and i've killed venos with phoenix almost 20 levels higher than i am solo. i also have a veno with a phoenix and get killed by pretty much everyone if i dont get the jump on them first. archer 15 levels lower can 1 hit a robe veno if they crit.(2 hit without crit) maybe we should take away archers crit since they can kill someone higher than themselves. like it has been said before people need to change their tactics to win. you cant stand toe to toe with the phoenix just like the veno cant stand toe to toe with an archer and trade blows. your argument is what does flesh ream do to a robe...well my question is what does an archer do to a robe? i'll answer for you archer vs. robe=dead robe. just because someone can actually compete with you doesnt mean it needs to be changed. adapt find a way around it and you will still win more than you lose against the veno just the way they are now. if the veno goes heavy armor then its a mages job to kill them not yours anyway or just use your metal attacks and you kill them easily. archers have everything. now that someone can actually beat them if they get a jump on an archer its like the end of the world.


sorry to pick on chaotic but he is always one of the archers complaining the most about how horrible it is that archers actually have a little competition.

Long essay is long.

Judging by that and your signature, I'd say someone is a little butthurt because of being **** by archers.

Here's some pro advice for you: "Re-roll a WB if you hate them that much"

disarmonia

I'm not posting for more QQing reasons, just so you know Trenith. Several people in this thread have made many valid points: and if you do not see this - then, I'm sorry. You fail.

Also, to other people being defensive about a 20 mil pet. You must already know that - if you didn't have that pet, you probably won't be as wanted. Since Venomancers were already at around a 4:1 ratio with the other classes.

Yes, some people have farmed their way into owning that pet: and I applaud them. But, as we already know - many of the people, which have them: BUY THEM. Then, shortly after buying they seem to be the first ones - bragging and flaming against any legit complaints.

If you're going to defend your Phoenix - even though it is over-powered. At least do it with some honor.. Save time defending for people that actually farmed the TT, Molds, DQ Items - to get it... That worked their butts off in game, and didn't take the easy way out.

This is all...

~Disarmonia_X.

elweselinde

Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh I agree that teh skill damage is bugged, I was just adding that it would be more fair to compare having spent equal sums on coins to balance(a lot of the people complainign walk around in 1star gear and Q_Q about getting 1shot). (Also veno do spend coins to get armor and weapons too people >.> [lol though some dont I suppose])

Even still though, I have spent A LOT of money on my own gears, More than most my level, Yet in the end a phoenix 15-20 levels lower than me comes in and still hits me for the 500-700s.... that is incredibly inappropriate for any class that low of a level. Really what is the point of going to tw, if a low lvl pet is going to kill me because the veno runs 50 meters out of range while the pet sits there killing me.

Already I refuse to spend more on cash shop for this reason and I personally know hundreds of people that have quit do to this TW problem. Either fix the phoenix, or allow those of us who cash shop that much money to have their own bonus.

I have spent over 5 times the cost of a phoenix on this game, and there is no reason to die in a few hits to a low level.

And don't tell me to get to know my character better cause at my level im still able to kill almost any class my level and even 10 levels higher. The only thing i've ever struggled with is the phoenixes.

Latentkarma - Lost City

elweselinde wrote: »

Even still though, I have spent A LOT of money on my own gears, More than most my level, Yet in the end a phoenix 15-20 levels lower than me comes in and still hits me for the 500-700s.... that is incredibly inappropriate for any class that low of a level. Really what is the point of going to tw, if a low lvl pet is going to kill me because the veno runs 50 meters out of range while the pet sits there killing me.

Already I refuse to spend more on cash shop for this reason and I personally know hundreds of people that have quit do to this TW problem. Either fix the phoenix, or allow those of us who cash shop that much money to have their own bonus.

I have spent over 5 times the cost of a phoenix on this game, and there is no reason to die in a few hits to a low level.

And don't tell me to get to know my character better cause at my level im still able to kill almost any class my level and even 10 levels higher. The only thing i've ever struggled with is the phoenixes.

it's also not appropriate for blades and barbs to come along 20 levels lower than me and 1-2 shot me either, but they do. My Phoenix now makes that a bit harder to do IF I see them coming first. If not, they can still toast me in short order. Realistically. the flesh ream skill is overpowered. As much as I hate to admit it. But people whining about a class now being able to take them out 20 lvls lower than them, when it was the other way around for so long, is funny as hell. Shoes on the other foot QQ.

Saitada (LK)+

Mosz - Heavens Tear

Latentkarma - Lost City wrote: »

it's also not appropriate for blades and barbs to come along 20 levels lower than me and 1-2 shot me either, but they do. My Phoenix now makes that a bit harder to do IF I see them coming first. If not, they can still toast me in short order. Realistically. the flesh ream skill is overpowered. As much as I hate to admit it. But people whining about a class now being able to take them out 20 lvls lower than them, when it was the other way around for so long, is funny as hell. Shoes on the other foot QQ.

Saitada (LK)+

if blades and babrs 15 lvls lower then you are 1-2 hitting you, YOU ARE NOT A PVP BUILD?

AndromedaB - Sanctuary

actually mages are the cheapest in TW although we are very squishy.

3 dragons will wipeout all the barbs/bms and everyone with light/heavy armor
1 tempest will kill all robies

3 or 4 dragons breaths will easily take out barbs and surroundign players

the only bad things are that knockback dosent work when fighting players, mage stun dosent work for very long, and our channeling is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long

Chaotiic - Lost City

Latentkarma - Lost City wrote: »

it's also not appropriate for blades and barbs to come along 20 levels lower than me and 1-2 shot me either, but they do. My Phoenix now makes that a bit harder to do IF I see them coming first. If not, they can still toast me in short order. Realistically. the flesh ream skill is overpowered. As much as I hate to admit it. But people whining about a class now being able to take them out 20 lvls lower than them, when it was the other way around for so long, is funny as hell. Shoes on the other foot QQ.

Saitada (LK)+

LK please listen to us. YOU ARE NOT A PVP BUILD NOR HAVE U SPENT LARGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY ON UR GEAR. People who have from any class will not be killed by someone 20 levels lower than them unless that person has a phoenix. Since ur on lost city get to 90 ill give u my gear and u can run around petless and see if anyone under 90 can kill u. You are just plain not wearing good gear or have a pvp build. Restat to a pvp build get some good gear then tell us whether people 20 levels lower can 2 shot u.

Until then STFU AND STOP POSTING.

Also obd i notice u havent responded yet please grace us with ur amazing wisdom. (But this time try to split it into paragraphs it was annoying to readb:surrender)

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Chaotiic - Lost City wrote: »

LK please listen to us. YOU ARE NOT A PVP BUILD NOR HAVE U SPENT LARGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY ON UR GEAR. People who have from any class will not be killed by someone 20 levels lower than them unless that person has a phoenix. Since ur on lost city get to 90 ill give u my gear and u can run around petless and see if anyone under 90 can kill u. You are just plain not wearing good gear or have a pvp build. Restat to a pvp build get some good gear then tell us whether people 20 levels lower can 2 shot u.

Until then STFU AND STOP POSTING.

Also obd i notice u havent responded yet please grace us with ur amazing wisdom. (But this time try to split it into paragraphs it was annoying to readb:surrender)

Read this post
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=1565821&postcount=112

Saitada - Sanctuary

Chaotiic - Lost City wrote: »

LK please listen to us. YOU ARE NOT A PVP BUILD NOR HAVE U SPENT LARGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY ON UR GEAR. People who have from any class will not be killed by someone 20 levels lower than them unless that person has a phoenix. Since ur on lost city get to 90 ill give u my gear and u can run around petless and see if anyone under 90 can kill u. You are just plain not wearing good gear or have a pvp build. Restat to a pvp build get some good gear then tell us whether people 20 levels lower can 2 shot u.

Until then STFU AND STOP POSTING.

Also obd i notice u havent responded yet please grace us with ur amazing wisdom. (But this time try to split it into paragraphs it was annoying to readb:surrender)

LK is my Blademaster on LC, I have a veno that I started, got to lvl 7 and stopped running, and a Barb that made it past the creation screen. LC will eventually become my main character on LC I think, I'm just not "real" familiar with the class as the highest I got on Sanc with my blade there is 27. I have another character i'm working on, an Archer but again, don't know enough about the class to really decide if I want to continue with it.

My Veno on Sanctuary is running nearly all TT70 armor (granted it's arcane but I switched her from Light Armor to Arcane because I just didn't like the loss of attack power and pet heal) and isn't fully statted back to arcane yet, still have a mess of points in dex that need to be moved. Primarily Arcane to deal with FB/TT/World bosses where my pet heal needs to be up to keep up (Gargantakong STILL stomps my ****).

If you can advise my how to stat out a PvP build Blademaster.....

Saitada.

TigerLily - Lost City

Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Notice your misrepresentation of Ren's words. High level, but also refering to equal level phoenixes. Also "tank" is a lot better then your "stand a chance" reference, and to top if off she said "easy".

On a side note, if the people who complained about phoenix spent the same money/coins(as the phoenix costs) on thier own gear, they would fair much better.

ie) its pretty obvious someone who spent 25mil on thier gear is better then someone who spent 1mil

hmm..i spent about the price of 3 phoenixes on my gear and i still die in 3-5 sec from veno + bird 90+. I cant even get 1 shoot of b/c the bird with stun outrange the archer and than the veno also have stun - so cant really do shiet i cant even get away alive after the first stun has landed. And even if i manage to get in atk range - i will die from bleed anyway since it ticks for like 1.8k if im unbuffed. I normally pop anti stun pot or use wings of grace if i see red nix and press fuel since its just a waste of dolls. I really rather tank GX+12 anyday than facing a nix with lvl 5 bleed lol.

If there was a dmg **** for every class for the tiny price 25mil + the cost of bleed lvl 5, it would be fair. But only allowing one class to spend 25 mil to make them invincible kinda sucks for the rest that didn't choose to lvl a veno to 90+.

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

I wish people would stop quoting me without reading all my posts in the thread. I'm not even gonna look at this thread anymore.

odb

@rundora

actually the only issue i have with archers is their big heads. i can gank an archer with my veno if i get in first but i get pretty much **** by archers on my BM no matter what. if archer gets first hit on veno thats dead too. do i care that i died? nope i get over it and look for a chance to blindside them the next time.

here you go chaotic here is the wisdom you asked for and i even split it up this time...

why dont all you whiners quit complaining about phoenix this phoenix that. the phoenix isnt the issue. the issue is the bleed skill not the phoenix. a leveled sawfly with bleed does a ton of damage as well so you cant say that phoenix is bugged. if you are going to complain at least complain about the right thing.


my BM has **** equips yet i've taken down a veno 15+ levels higher solo. venos are not invincible even with the bleed as it is. i honestly dont care if they lower it a bit as long as they do 2 things...amp the venos skill attacks and fix how flying pets get stuck when they move over the ground and ground pets disappear when you standing in water thats only up to your ankles.

you want 1 way to stop a flying pet? just run on the ground and it will get stuck. veno without pet=squishy. if they stat a heavy veno call yourself a mage or cleric to come in and 1 hit them or use your metal attacks.

you cant always use the same tactics against everyone. you have to change based on your opponent. your opponent will change their tactics to find a way to beat you. just because it changes how you need to fight a veno that you could destroy without it doesnt mean that the game needs to be "fixed" to make things easy for you again.

Rundora - Lost City_1243871147

odb wrote: »

@rundora

actually the only issue i have with archers is their big heads. i can gank an archer with my veno if i get in first but i get pretty much **** by archers on my BM no matter what. if archer gets first hit on veno thats dead too. do i care that i died? nope i get over it and look for a chance to blindside them the next time.

Of course your veno can beat archers with first hit, it has the **** bleed. Beating an archer with a BM actually takes a little work.

The problem here is not that people don't want to be killed, its that they want to actually have a chance to win. Defeat a 9x phoenix, take a screenshot and then come talk to us again.

Chaotiic - Lost City

odb wrote: »

@rundora

actually the only issue i have with archers is their big heads. i can gank an archer with my veno if i get in first but i get pretty much **** by archers on my BM no matter what. if archer gets first hit on veno thats dead too. do i care that i died? nope i get over it and look for a chance to blindside them the next time.

here you go chaotic here is the wisdom you asked for and i even split it up this time...

why dont all you whiners quit complaining about phoenix this phoenix that. the phoenix isnt the issue. the issue is the bleed skill not the phoenix. a leveled sawfly with bleed does a ton of damage as well so you cant say that phoenix is bugged. if you are going to complain at least complain about the right thing.


my BM has **** equips yet i've taken down a veno 15+ levels higher solo. venos are not invincible even with the bleed as it is. i honestly dont care if they lower it a bit as long as they do 2 things...amp the venos skill attacks and fix how flying pets get stuck when they move over the ground and ground pets disappear when you standing in water thats only up to your ankles.

you want 1 way to stop a flying pet? just run on the ground and it will get stuck. veno without pet=squishy. if they stat a heavy veno call yourself a mage or cleric to come in and 1 hit them or use your metal attacks.

you cant always use the same tactics against everyone. you have to change based on your opponent. your opponent will change their tactics to find a way to beat you. just because it changes how you need to fight a veno that you could destroy without it doesnt mean that the game needs to be "fixed" to make things easy for you again.

Venos do fine without bleed they are a good class. If u read the posts u would see people arent complaining about venos being hard to fight we are complaining that u when facing one u have 0 chance to win.

Pvp build venos are NOT squishy. Light/Heavy veno are the only a viable pvp builds for venos. People need to get this idea that heavy venos are mage 1 shots out of their head. A heavy veno has magic rings, magic adorns and usually arcane bracers all with decent +. I know 3 heavy venos my level and all of them have higher magical defense than i do. So much for them being mage 1 shots.

Also why if fleash ream is fixed must veno spells be amped? A lot of venos say this and it makes 0 sense to me. Why do u complain about mages dealing 400 more damage than u when u have a pet dealing 800 normal hit damage? Also most pvp happens in the air and even on the ground i have never seen a pet get stuck in pvp, in pve i have seen it get stuck and it pisses me off on my veno but dont see how this is relevant to pvp.

obd im not saying phoenix should be nerfed im saying skill should be fixed. That skill +phoenix = instead death no competition.

Look at the bold sections and u will see why ur bm gets **** by archers. Venos u dont need gear bms u need gear simple fact and something which forms the backbone of our arguments as to why venos=op.

Stop telling me obvious things and by obvious i mean ur statements about changing tactics to fight different classes. I KNOW THIS wat u think an archer jus points and shoots everyone they see and wins? No as an archer u have to vary the skills u use and ur tactics depending on the class/player. Venos there is no tactic for winning when u are face to face other than bring 2 friends with u T_T. Btw everything i say is based on both parties knowing we are there. If i jump a veno i can usually kill them. Same way if other classes jump me they can probably kill me stop bringing up the "who jumps who" im talking about a straight up 1v1 which for people with kos is generally how u fight due to constantly spamming t to spot enemies. Fact is 1v1 there is no win tactic for venos stop grasping at straws with ur "change ur tactics" ****.

Last questions what level is ur bm? what server is it on? Name the lv 15+ venos u killed on it.

Finally looool at ur signature. Unless u have missed hundreds of forum posts its not just archers who are complaining about the bugged skill its ALL classes including other venos.

Reikara - Heavens Tear

I am also from Avengers.

Please understand that it is NOT the pheonix that is bugged, it is the flesh ream skill which isn't reduced to 75% damage in pvp. They will not nerf the pheonix which does not come with the flesh ream skill, it just has a high attack which is worth the $$. They will not cancel pheonix/hercules sales and they will not tick off their paying customers.

I've done my fair share of reading on both the MY fourms and pwi. Pwi forums are more or less 'QQ pheonix kill me nerf venos plz' whilst the MY forums are more informative of the situation. This is the info gathered from what i've read;

On the MY severs which have more of the player base in their higher levels (90+) they did at one stage nerf the bleed pet skill and reduce it to what it should be in pvp but it left venomancers completly underpowered, especially arcane/magic build venos. Also understand that venomancers have very weak magic attack even as pure magic builds compared to wizards and clerics. (So obviously, it isn't the "veno" that should be nerfed.)

At those high levels, everyone has their gear highly refined like at least 5+ for the HP bonuses so having the flesh ream skill reduced made killing or surviving other classes insanley hard. They ended up fixing it back to it's 'bugged' state which balanced things out, I mean yeah it's 1k bleed but it dosen't last long and they all have like 6k+ HP at the lowest.

I've explained this a few times already though but people just dont get it through their thick skulls, venomancers do not need to be nerfed as it is not their skills hitting 1k DoT nor is it the pheonix. It's the FLESH REAM PET SKILL WHICH CAN BE TAUGHT TO [ANY] PET. They will not nerf pheonixes nor will they cancel sales. There are also many ways to survive pheonix ganks.

Invest in apothecary potions and level 79 skills, refine your gear or just run when you see it coming. Use +HP shards or stun the bird or jump underwater if possible. Stop crying and be proactive.

I am so sick of you 'QQ veno overpowered' 'omg nerf pheonix it kill me' people, more than half of you dont even investigate into the real cause of the problem let alone find solutions around it when there's plenty.

josefinemutzenbacher

Well... I'm fine with finding new tactics etc. But I've seen lvl60 veno defeating 6 lvl80+ people just by sending the phoenix in and running away/coming back/healing phoenix. You can't call it fair. Lvl60 should be oneshot to pretty much every lvl80, no tactics needed. Theres really something wrong with it, there should not be the need to form a full party to kill one player 10 or more levels lower than the party.

And I think that venos really should be weak in pvp. They are awesome solo pve, so to balance it they should need groups to do anything in pvp, right? I think their role in pvp should be to debuff, the end. If you have one class that already is the richest (and venos were long before the battle pets came into PWI) and has it easiest in pve, you don't need to make it best in pvp.

If nothing is done with it, soon there will only be venos with phoenixes on Lost City, and it will pretty much be the end of it.

Dar_Malkier - Lost City

Simple fact is the the flesh ream skill is bugged and needs to be brought more in line with every other skill on every other character with regards to PVE vs PVP damage reduction, and the damage reduction factor when attacking someone who has a pdef shield up (ex. cleric plume barrier, etc.). I'm not QQing over a veno having phoenix nor any other pet, it's one of the benefits of thier class. What I am stating (notice stating, not QQing) is that every other skill on every other character suffers a damage reduction when used in PVP, and every physical skill suffers a damage reduction when attacking a player using a pdef shield of some sort......except for the flesh ream skill. Therefore, the skill itself needs to be modified to bring it in-line with every other skill of every other character in the game. Only in this way will the outcome of PVP based play where a veno is involved be truely dependent upon the skill of the players involved as well as the quality of thier gear.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

I will say it again right here and this is coming from a venomancer. We Do Not Need Flesh Ream To Be Good In PvP. This argument sounds exactly like another game. A class at level 80 has a skill that can 1 shot a level 160 regardless of basically anything, yet if the skill gets removed or nerfed the first thing they will do is complain that they suck at pvp without it.

Rundora - Lost City_1243871147

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I will say it again right here and this is coming from a venomancer. We Do Not Need Flesh Ream To Be Good In PvP. This argument sounds exactly like another game. A class at level 80 has a skill that can 1 shot a level 160 regardless of basically anything, yet if the skill gets removed or nerfed the first thing they will do is complain that they suck at pvp without it.

The more you say it, the more you will be ignored. Venomancers don't need Flesh Ream to be good in PVP, but no one who's read your other posts will take anything you say seriously.

Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I am also from Avengers.

Please understand that it is NOT the pheonix that is bugged, it is the flesh ream skill which isn't reduced to 75% damage in pvp. They will not nerf the pheonix which does not come with the flesh ream skill, it just has a high attack which is worth the $$. They will not cancel pheonix/hercules sales and they will not tick off their paying customers.

I've done my fair share of reading on both the MY fourms and pwi. Pwi forums are more or less 'QQ pheonix kill me nerf venos plz' whilst the MY forums are more informative of the situation. This is the info gathered from what i've read;

On the MY severs which have more of the player base in their higher levels (90+) they did at one stage nerf the bleed pet skill and reduce it to what it should be in pvp but it left venomancers completly underpowered, especially arcane/magic build venos. Also understand that venomancers have very weak magic attack even as pure magic builds compared to wizards and clerics. (So obviously, it isn't the "veno" that should be nerfed.)

At those high levels, everyone has their gear highly refined like at least 5+ for the HP bonuses so having the flesh ream skill reduced made killing or surviving other classes insanley hard. They ended up fixing it back to it's 'bugged' state which balanced things out, I mean yeah it's 1k bleed but it dosen't last long and they all have like 6k+ HP at the lowest.

I've explained this a few times already though but people just dont get it through their thick skulls, venomancers do not need to be nerfed as it is not their skills hitting 1k DoT nor is it the pheonix. It's the FLESH REAM PET SKILL WHICH CAN BE TAUGHT TO [ANY] PET. They will not nerf pheonixes nor will they cancel sales. There are also many ways to survive pheonix ganks.

Invest in apothecary potions and level 79 skills, refine your gear or just run when you see it coming. Use +HP shards or stun the bird or jump underwater if possible. Stop crying and be proactive.

I am so sick of you 'QQ veno overpowered' 'omg nerf pheonix it kill me' people, more than half of you dont even investigate into the real cause of the problem let alone find solutions around it when there's plenty.

This is a very good post, and although many will disagree, I can sort of see what you are saying. It's been said recently (by people in game) that bleed was NOT fixed in the CN version, the reason it's not a problem there is because everyone is higher level with improved gears, and as people progress in the game, the phoenix becomes less of a threat.

This supports what you are saying, and the methods you have suggested are all valid ways of beating the bleed. People won't like it but I guess we just have to endure until LC players catch up a bit in levels/gear b:sad (not like they're going to fix it anyway, but good to know there is light at the end of the tunnel)

josefinemutzenbacher

Rundora - Lost City wrote: »

The more you say it, the more you will be ignored. Venomancers don't need Flesh Ream to be good in PVP, but no one who's read your other posts will take anything you say seriously.

I agree. I'm a wizard and I recently fought a veno of lower lvl than me (not much, I think there was less than 10 lvls difference) who had no phoenix. She had a sawfly or something instead. In the end... we both died;). But I'm not mad at all because it was a fair fight, which you can't say about fighting the phoenixed veno at its current state.

And I just thought of something... if phoenixes flesh realm is bugged, then pking using it is called abusing a bug -> it is bannable. It does not differ at all from using flypets to solo bossess (just to remind you of Krixxix and the other one... Gouf). I think I will "report hacking" everyone abusing this bug :P

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Rundora - Lost City wrote: »

The more you say it, the more you will be ignored. Venomancers don't need Flesh Ream to be good in PVP, but no one who's read your other posts will take anything you say seriously.

People said the same thing in the last mmo I played. They quickly ate their words when my mage started killing them all with my staff and no str. Along with players who got pissed they could not damage me due to quite insane physical defense, on a mage no less.